flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.0 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
<Yoric[DT]> 8 pages of tutorial on installing GODI and Batteries...
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<thelema> Yoric[DT]: where?
<Yoric[DT]> git
<Yoric[DT]> doc/batteries/html/tutorial.html
<mbishop> I'm not a fan of godi
<thelema> mbishop: you and me both
<mbishop> I suppose you could say I don't believe in GODI
<mbishop> :P
<thelema> lol
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<Yoric[DT]> Well, I'm waiting for a Debian package.
<Yoric[DT]> And a Fedora package.
<Yoric[DT]> And, well, any package is appreciated :)
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<mbishop> I don't see why the work put into godi isn't put into an already working package system like debian (which would also get it into ubuntu)
<thelema> mbishop: windows
<thelema> or does godi not work under win
<Yoric[DT]> I don't think it does.
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<mbishop> the site says it does
<mbishop> GODI is available for O'Caml-3.09 and 3.10. It runs on Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Windows (Cygwin and MinGW), HP-UX, MacOS X.
<thelema> that's why. ubuntu != solaris, *BSD, windows, HP-UX, OSX. And it will never get ported.
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<gildor> thelema, mbisho: GODI and {Fedora, Debian...} package system are very different
<thelema> quite.
<gildor> thelema:, mbishop: GODI is a source distribution
<gildor> Fedora and Debian are binary distribution
<thelema> feh, that's not all that important.
<gildor> this is very important
<gildor> thelema: why do you think this is not important ?
<thelema> that it's domain specific vs. intended for an entire working system seems *much* more important.
<gildor> 1/3 of possible problem is coming from building a package
<thelema> see gentoo for a source distro that's very similar to apt / rpm, but quite different from godi
<gildor> thelema: do you run gentoo ?
<thelema> no, ubuntu
<gildor> thelema: so ask yourself why gentoo is not as widely use as it should be
<gildor> thelema: source distro are very hard to set up
<thelema> not necessarily. BSD's ports is supposedly great.
<gildor> with binary distro you can hide most of the build problem by removing options when it is not possible to use them
<gildor> I agree that BSD is great
<gildor> (BSD port i mean)
<thelema> it's source, no?
<gildor> and GODI started out of this system BTW
<gildor> 90% of initial GODI source is the BSD port system
<gildor> (including BSD make and other)
<thelema> with source distro, you can still keep build problems to a minimum by removing options
<gildor> indeed
<gildor> just want ot underline that GODI is a good tool and must be considered as an "already working package system"
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<thelema> I'll have to take your word for that. Others are clamoring for deb / rpm packages
<christos> hi, i am compiling ocaml code in macosx and get an error "The extension of the output file must be .o or .so" . do you think i could just change the extension?
<thelema> (which are a good idea)
<thelema> christos: yes.
<thelema> but you're compiling to a module, not to an executable, right?
<christos> i think so
<Yoric[DT]> 'night everyone
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<flux> I wonder how delemas and the patch to unison went
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<Yoric[DT]> hi
<Cheshire> hi
<rwmjones> _zack:
<rwmjones> Created commit c33fd41: Convert ocaml.m4 file to UTF-8.
<rwmjones> 1 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)
<_zack> rwmjones: ack
<rwmjones> ok I pushed it
<_zack> rwmjones: are you ok with my alternative implementation of gildor's feature request?
<rwmjones> yeah that's fine, makes more sense really
<gildor> _zack: hi
<gildor> _zack: i have nothing against, just asking me why there is ocamlyacc/ocamllex macro
<_zack> well, arguably ocamlyacc/lex requirements are less frequently used than ocamlbuild (or it will be so in the future)
<_zack> but as a general principle I've nothing against merging them in AC_PROG_OCAML as well
<_zack> it makes sense to be consistent: everything which is in the standard ocaml distro should be detected by that single macro
<gildor> nevermind, I just give you the reason why i put it outside
<gildor> _zack: BTW, i will need to implement some OCAMLBUILDFLAGS to take into account ocamlc/ocamlopt detection by the autoconf
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<gildor> (maybe directly into OCAMLBUILD, adding -ocamlc $OCAMLC -ocamlyacc ... -ocamllex ... -ocamldep ...)
<_zack> gildor: I don't get it, does that need to be supported by ocaml-autoconf? looks like something to be done in Makefiles, testing the outcome of autoconf substvars
<gildor> _zack, rwmjones: I think setting this program will allow easier cross compiling
<mfp> it's a pity that the direct form is bytecode-only (monadic style needed for native)
<gildor> _zack: more or less, just a question of drawing the line, this settings are just about defining external
<gildor> program for cross compilation
<gildor> _zack: I want to see what rwmjones think about it, in particular wrt cross compilation
<rwmjones> gildor, _zack I've just posted about cross-compilation to debian-ocaml-maint actually
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<rwmjones> did that answer your questions about cross-compilation? Note that we use native tools from the ordinary ocaml package for camlp4, ocamllex, ocamlyacc. Only the actual compiler ($target-ocamlopt) is different.
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<gildor> rwmjones: not really, but I assume that this mean, we just need to ovveride -ocamlopt in ocamlbuild
<gildor> rwmjones: does it make sense to do it in autoconf or do you prefer to do it in makefile
<rwmjones> gildor, TBH I have no idea about ocamlbuild ...
<rwmjones> gildor, doesn't ocamlbuild need to build & run some program during build?
<rwmjones> if so, it needs to build a native program, so that doesn't involve the cross-compiler at all
<rwmjones> same as for camlp4 etc
<gildor> rwmjones: yes it need to run ocaml compiler, lex and yacc
<rwmjones> it should run the ordinary, native compiler in that case
<rwmjones> otherwise you end up with a program that you cannot run (because it's for the cross-compiler target)
<gildor> humm not sure to understand, if i want to cross-compile a program with ocamlbuild, I need to change the ocamlopt compiler at least ?
<rwmjones> gildor, there's two steps involved
<rwmjones> (1) you have to build the ocamlbuild program (whatever it's called - myocamlbuild??)
<rwmjones> (2) you have to run that program and it must then run the compiler
<rwmjones> step (1) you need a native compiler (AIUI)
<rwmjones> for (2) it must invoke the cross-compiler
<gildor> ok
<gildor> you can use "-byte-plugin" for step (1)
<rwmjones> I don't really know about ocamlbuild
<gildor> and "-ocamlopt" override for step (1) and (2) (since it won't mess with ocamlc needed for myocamlbuild)
<gildor> rwmjones: since this issue need further work, I propose to let you decide, whenever you will need to cross compile an ocamlbuild related program
<rwmjones> gildor, personally I'm never going to use ocamlbuild, so I don't care
<rwmjones> I'll continue to use autoconf/automake
<gildor> rwmjones: where is the webpages concerning cross compiled packages with mingw ?
<rwmjones> documentation huh
<gildor> no, just the list of package compiled
<rwmjones> gildor, look for 'ocaml' on this page: http://www.annexia.org/fedora_mingw
<rwmjones> btw we're also cross-compiling to OS X now
<rwmjones> but not ocaml yet
<gildor> ok, in fact I am working on ocaml-fileutils to migrate my autoconf+Makefile to ocaml-autoconf + ocamlbuild, and I want to provide you something that can cross-compile
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<tsuyoshi> osx cross compiler? awesome I need that
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<tsuyoshi> oh cool, you have gtk included too
<tsuyoshi> when I did a mingw cross compiler I never got around to doing gtk
<rwmjones> & Qt ...
<tsuyoshi> are there qt bindings for ocaml now?
<tsuyoshi> damn.. I'm totally out of touch
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<rwmjones> tsuyoshi, no, not for ocaml, I meant qt in general :-)
<tsuyoshi> ohh
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<tsuyoshi> so where is the osx cross compiler?
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<Cheshire> hi
<Cheshire> I'm trying to find this thing about ocaml...
<Cheshire> somebody wrote "Just like their ocaml counterparts, they require an order on the underlying datatypes used in a set/map. However, the big difference is that as long as we need just an orbitrary order (which is often the case when using sets or maps) in ocaml one gets this for free (by means of the polymorphic compare),"
<Cheshire> is this mechanism documented?
<det> Yes
<Cheshire> oh thank you
<Cheshire> my next stop is the ocaml source code then
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<Cheshire> hm so it just produces a lexicographic order on each of the fields?
<Cheshire> like if your type is int * int * int then (x,y,z) < (u,v,w) is x < u or (x = u and y < v) or (x = u and y = v and z < w) ?
<rwmjones> Cheshire, I think so yes
<Cheshire> it's all written in C using gotos inside a while loop :p
<mfp> Cheshire: this is how it actually works, but the manual doesn't specify it (meaning the devels retain the freedom to change it later)
<mfp> (it's unlikely to change, though)
<Cheshire> yes I suppose the specific don't matter, it's just something which lets you shove objects into a hash
<det> might be a good read regarding polymorphic compare
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<Yoric[DT]> Gasp.
<Yoric[DT]> I believe I have found the bug which is preventing us from correctly generating documentation.
<Yoric[DT]> It's going to be *very* annoying to fix.
<Yoric[DT]> (and it's a camlp4 bug, by the way)
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<Yoric[DT]> grmpf
<Yoric[DT]> Another issue with camlp4.
<Yoric[DT]> camlp4o -sep foo => works
<Yoric[DT]> ocamlc -i -pp "camlp4o -sep foo" z.ml => doesn't
<Yoric[DT]> that is
<Yoric[DT]> camlp4o -sep foo z.ml => works
<Yoric[DT]> ocamlc -i -pp "camlp4o -sep foo" z.ml => doesn't
<Yoric[DT]> in the second version, suddenly, camlp4o doesn't seem to understand option "-sep"
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<Yoric[DT]> Actually, it's worse than that
<Yoric[DT]> camlp4o -no_comments z.ml => works
<Yoric[DT]> ocamlc -i -pp "camlp4o -no_comments" z.ml => « -no_comments: unknown or misused option »
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<brendan> camlp4o -no_comments z.ml | cat
<brendan> same problem. it seems to be inspecting the output channel
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<brendan> strace says this:
<brendan> ioctl(1, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, {B38400 opost isig icanon echo ...}) = 0
<brendan> open("z.ml", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 3
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* Yoric[DT] may have found a workaround.
<brendan> camlp4o -printer o -no_comments z.ml |cat
<brendan> works
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<Yoric[DT]> -printer o
<Yoric[DT]> ?
<Yoric[DT]> Good to know.
<Yoric[DT]> Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to help me :/
<brendan> I tried ocamlc -pp "camlp4o -printer o -no_comments" z.ml
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<Yoric[DT]> I was attempting to use "-sep" as a workaround for the following bug: http://caml.inria.fr/mantis/view.php?id=4713 .
* brendan disapproves of this tty magic. they should just document that you can use -printer p inside ocamlc -pp
<Yoric[DT]> Turns out it doesn't work :/
<Yoric[DT]> (i.e. it causes syntax errors)
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<hcarty> Yoric[DT]: Why, out of curiosity, -sep?
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<Yoric[DT]> Because -sep "" removes some linebreaks and I have the feeling that these are the linebreaks which break my documentation.
<hcarty> Ah, ok. How do you get it to keep comments after preprocessing?
<Yoric[DT]> Default printer does this.
<Yoric[DT]> (in camlp4o, that is)
<Yoric[DT]> the only problem being that it moves comments to wrong places
<Yoric[DT]> And it....
<Yoric[DT]> failed.
<Yoric[DT]> I did manage to get all the comments to appear in the ocamldoc, but documentation titles are completely wrong.
<Yoric[DT]> (and they screw up a number of things)
<hcarty> Would -sep " " work any better?
<hcarty> Or perhaps the problem runs much deeper... I'm just toying with a simple file here
<hcarty> s/much//
<Yoric[DT]> The issue is with titles.
<Yoric[DT]> I can try -sep " ", just in case.
<Yoric[DT]> Now building documentation...
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<brendan> -l 255 seems to help with the line breaks between function arguments
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<brendan> still eats the last comment
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<Yoric[DT]> Well, "last comment" is better than "every comment after the first title".
<Yoric[DT]> If -sep " " isn't sufficient, I'll try the -l 255.
<Yoric[DT]> It's surprising, though.
<Yoric[DT]> How does it change anything?
<brendan> just the arg1 -> <br> arg2 stuff
<Yoric[DT]> -sep " " gives much the same result as -sep ""
* Yoric[DT] is trying to determine exactly when comments are printed, from the source code of the pretty-printer.
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* Yoric[DT] hesitates to go through the trouble of rewriting a pretty-printer just for this.
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<brendan> how about: camlp4o -printer o -sep "" "$@" | sed -e 's/\*)/*)\n/'
<brendan> :)
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<Yoric[DT]> I'm desperate, so why not.
* Yoric[DT] has started rewriting a pretty-printer.
<Yoric[DT]> Do I need to check that sed expression?
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* Yoric[DT] rutns
* Yoric[DT] runs
<Yoric[DT]> mmmhh...
* Yoric[DT] has no clue regarding how to do a | inside a pp.
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* Yoric[DT] has a dumb printer which might just work.
<brendan> I'd create a shell script wrapper to do the pipe
<brendan> mycamlp4o = #!/bin/sh exec camlp4o ... "$@" | sed ...
<Yoric[DT]> Yes!
<Yoric[DT]> My pretty-printer seems to do the trick.
<Yoric[DT]> Now, let's try on the actual Batteries.
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<Yoric[DT]> Well, the results are imperfect but better than what we had before.
<mfp> öh 100 ppl on #ocaml, 1st time I see that
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<Camarade_Tux> well, 99 now ;p
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<Camarade_Tux> maybe we should stop counting ;p
<Yoric[DT]> :)
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<slash_> ok i'm using glcaml and when i compile a simple ocaml-program i get the following error-msg:
<slash_> Error while linking ogl.cmo: Reference to undefined global `Glcam
<slash_> i use the OCamlMakefile
<slash_> what i'm doing wrong?
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<slash_> http://pastebin.ca/1333181 <- that's the makefile
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<slash_> silence :D
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<Yoric[DT]> Ok, final comment recovered.
<Yoric[DT]> slash_: sorry, can't help you with either OCamlMakefile or ogl
<Yoric[DT]> s/ogl/glcaml/
<Yoric[DT]> Have you added glcaml.cmo to your list of modules?
<slash_> how? i thought that is done by the makefile?
<slash_> that's what LIBS is for, isnt it?
<Yoric[DT]> I'm not familiar with OCamlMakefile, sorry.
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<Yoric[DT]> seems to be INCDIRs
<slash_> ok i fixed it, i wrote `` LIB'' instead of ``LIBS''
<slash_> but now i'm getting
<slash_> Cannot find file glcaml.cma
<Yoric[DT]> That should be in LIBDIRS
<slash_> looking at the glcaml directory shows that there is no glcaml.cma
* Yoric[DT] is reading the documentation of OCamlMakefile on the fly.
<Yoric[DT]> Ah
<slash_> but the built doesn't contain one either
<Yoric[DT]> What happens if you remove glcaml from your LIBS?
<slash_> Cannot find sdl.cma
<Yoric[DT]> LIBDIRS += sdl
<Yoric[DT]> (assuming that there is a "sdl.cma" somewhere on your computer)
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* Yoric[DT] will return in a few minutes.
<slash_> well i have a sdl-directory
<slash_> with a cma-file
<slash_> but that's a different sdl
<slash_> i suppose
<slash_> glcaml brings its own
<slash_> i compiled glcaml straight from source
<slash_> but no *.cma was generated
<slash_> install.txt doesn't mention them either
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<thelema> Yoric[DT]: you're still merging instead of rebasing
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<Yoric[DT]> Am I?
<Yoric[DT]> How am I merging?
<Yoric[DT]> I haven't written "merge" once.
<Yoric[DT]> Is there a merging strategy or something such to change?
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<Yoric[DT]> « Merge made by recursive »
<Yoric[DT]> is that it?
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<thelema> Yoric[DT]: you're still merging instead of rebasing
* Yoric[DT] still doesn't understand how.
* Yoric[DT] wonders if it's a thelema-bot.
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<thelema> just afk suddenly
<thelema> what command do you give in order to merge?