flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | 3.11.0 out now! Get yours from http://caml.inria.fr/ocaml/release.html
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<flux> toplevel has colors?
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<AxleLonghorn> I compiled ocaml from source, but I'm missing a number of the modules listed in the api. for example, the Digest module does not exist. I don't see how that could be system dependent.
<AxleLonghorn> anyone know why this might be the case?
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<tsuyoshi> huh.. got a segfault with an ocaml program
<tsuyoshi> since I didn't use anything unsafe, is that basically a bug in the compiler?
<Camarade_Tux> or you're maybe using a library that use something unsafe
<tsuyoshi> actually I think it's just out of memory
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<Camarade_Tux> I always wondered how ocaml handled an allocation failure
<tsuyoshi> on most unixes, malloc() never fails
<tsuyoshi> it just allocates the address space, and then when you actually fault in the pages and there isn't enough memory, it segfaults
<tsuyoshi> presumably if malloc did fail, ocaml would print an error message and die
* Camarade_Tux wanted to test that by making an OOM but he'll wait until he doesn't have anything valuable running...
<flux> you can make malloc fail by simply using ulimit, no? or does ocaml guard specifically against ulimit limits..
<Camarade_Tux> I've never used ulimit as I've never needed to
<Camarade_Tux> but having an oom is fun : it's always firefox which dies first, mem_usage/usefulness ratio too high ;)
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<Yoric[DT]> hi
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<Yoric[DT]> Does anyone know how the toplevel decides whether it's going to underline errors with ^^^^^ or with _____?
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], it can also colorize ;)
<Yoric[DT]> Can it?
<Camarade_Tux> yeah but I can't have that inside X, I had completely forgotten that until yesterday
<Yoric[DT]> Wow.
<Yoric[DT]> How do you test this?
<Yoric[DT]> (if not inside X)
<Camarade_Tux> but even in the linux console everybody doesn't get that, if you read the source, check that too ;)
<Yoric[DT]> Hey, it works on my console :)
<Camarade_Tux> you can just 2+.3.;; or something like that ;)
<Camarade_Tux> :'(
<Yoric[DT]> (that is on my text console, not the xterm)
<Camarade_Tux> ah ok, I thought the toplevel did not like me :p
<Yoric[DT]> Unfortunately, it works with 3.10 without Batteries, 3.10 with Batteries, 3.11 without Batteries but not 3.11 with Batteries.
<Yoric[DT]> For some reason, errors are not displayed on 3.11 with Batteries.
<Camarade_Tux> hmmm, bad =/
<Yoric[DT]> Yeah.
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<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: more precisely, the error is displayed but not underlined.
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<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: problem traced to a Camlp4 extension.
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT], and fixed ? ;p
<Yoric[DT]> Not quite yet.
<sgnb> Yoric[DT]: did you see my bugreport on batteries?
<Yoric[DT]> Yep.
<Yoric[DT]> Testing your patch at this moment.
<Yoric[DT]> Patch applied, thanks.
<thelema> Yoric[DT]: rebasing still ok?
<Yoric[DT]> For the moment, I haven't needed it.
<Yoric[DT]> Mmmmh...
<Yoric[DT]> I'm going to, though.
* thelema will help, but easier to upgrade git to get git-stash
<Yoric[DT]> How do I undo a change which hasn't been committed yet?
<thelema> there's two places that change could be and not be committed, the filesystem and the git "to-commit" pool. which do you mean?
<thelema> (there's a better name for the pool, I can't think of it ATM)
<Yoric[DT]> file system
<thelema> what I usually do is just git checkout -f <filename>
<Yoric[DT]> ok
<Camarade_Tux> or git stash :)
<thelema> if I want to drop the change, I just check out the file again. If I want to keep it, yes, git-stash
<thelema> hmm, does anyone else have compilation problems related to Jeremie's latest patch to fix bug#155?
<thelema> git id 87196de
<thelema> Yoric[DT]: good job rebasing. now we have a pretty history.
<Yoric[DT]> yeah
<Yoric[DT]> yeah \o/
* Camarade_Tux hands Yoric[DT] a beer
<thelema> Yoric[DT]++
* Yoric[DT] declines the beer but takes the increase, thanks ;)
<Yoric[DT]> Camarade_Tux: and that syntax extension bug has just been fixed, by the way :)
<Camarade_Tux> Yoric[DT]++ ;)
<Yoric[DT]> No, I'm not the culprit on this one, it's Jérémie.
<Yoric[DT]> (i.e. Jérémie fixed it)
<thelema> Yoric[DT]: does his fix not cause build failure on your comp?
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: just pushed the fixed Makefile.in
<thelema> beat me to it - I'm writing my commit message now.
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<thelema> good thing - I didn't catch the estring_top in the install: rule
<Yoric[DT]> Time for a break.
<Yoric[DT]> (while our Benevolent President continues destroying French universities)
<Yoric[DT]> Talk to you later.
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<thelema> sheers
<thelema> *cheers
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* Yoric[DT] will return.
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<ulfdoz> so,hat der nun endlich das TB mit NTFS gefüttert?
<ulfdoz> window epic fail. sorry.
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<thelema> Yoric[DT]: we've got some categorization problems -- Container and Data seem mixed up (many things in Data that belong in Container)
<Yoric[DT]> We have Container and Data?
<thelema> in the docs.
<thelema> maybe it's just data that's duplicating stuff elsewhere...
<thelema> (probably related to the Future problem I didn't realize the meaning of earlier
<AxleLonghorn> http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/0Ln5AoyFrd < When I run this code, the first thread runs, printing everything, and then the second thread runs, printing everything. There is no overlap
<hcarty> Yoric[DT]: I have a godiva file for a (hacked/patched) cairo-ocaml which seems to work properly on my system. Would you be interested in/willing to test?
<hcarty> If this works, I'll try the process a bit cleaner
<thelema> AxleLonghorn: that's one valid output for threads - maybe wait()ing will change output
<bluestorm> AxleLonghorn: use Thread.yield () in your loop
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: stuff can be duplicated among topics, that's normal
<bluestorm> Yoric[DT] : i'm not fond of the in-browser idea for #man; would it be reasonable to add a command-line of browsing that ?
<hcarty> "hacked/patched" meaning that I made some changes to the code to make it GODI+godiva friendly
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: what do you mean?
<AxleLonghorn> if it makes a difference, I native compiled the code
<bluestorm> command-line way
<Yoric[DT]> hcarty: not right at this moment but in 1 or 2 hours, with pleasure.
<thelema> Yoric[DT]: I suggest it's undesirable as it makes non-duplicated modules harder to find.
<bluestorm> ocamldoc can produce a man output
<bluestorm> with some work we might be able to call a pager from the toplevel, or is it pure utopia ?
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: you want the code to be displayed as man?
<bluestorm> yes
<bluestorm> the documentation actually
<bluestorm> (the "#man ..." output, whatever it is)
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<bluestorm> as man or plain text, but not something that call my browser and often fail
<bluestorm> (i'm not saying the browser idea is bad, but i think it won't suit some users and we should have a in-console way of doing things)
<hcarty> Yoric[DT]: I should be around then - just let me know
<bluestorm> (and as a matter of fact, i get a "Sorry, I had a problem ..." error, i'm investigating on this)
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: yeah, I meant "documentation", not "code".
<Yoric[DT]> Well, it's not pure utopia but it's lots of work.
<bluestorm> ok
<Yoric[DT]> Firstly, it means writing a new text-based documentation generator, which performs the same transformations as the html-based one.
<Yoric[DT]> hcarty: ok
<bluestorm> your current generator is html-dependent ?
<bluestorm> (sorry, i know nothing of the documentation generation work you've done)
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: most of it isn't
<Yoric[DT]> But it can't be used as is for text output.
<Yoric[DT]> Then you have the matter of reimplementing man or info (if you want hyperlinks, a modicuum of text formatting) in OCaml.
<Yoric[DT]> Which is easier said than done.
<bluestorm> rlwrap can be used to call an editor from the toplevel, i think we could use such a trick to call man
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: I've worked long and hard to make this possible :)
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: (obviously not long enough, as there are still bugs)
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: ok, that might solve the second issue.
<bluestorm> (btw., maybe we could use the "thin wrapper over the tolevel" idea to add resolve those long-standing line-editing by silently integrating rlwrap/ledit ?)
<bluestorm> -add
<bluestorm> well Yoric[DT] we're obviously busy with other things right now, but i think we should keep that idea in mind
<Yoric[DT]> ok
<bluestorm> hm
<Yoric[DT]> Don't hesitate to add a RfF.
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: could you post that topic on the mailing-list?
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<thelema> Yoric[DT]: the left sidebar duplication? ok.
<Yoric[DT]> yep
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: or we could check how lynx works...
<bluestorm> yes i was investigating that part independently
<bluestorm> i remember that one of my distro had an alias for "less" that made it able to format HTML documents
<bluestorm> but i can't find anything on google
<pango> bluestorm: or maybe using less preprocessing facilities ($LESSOPEN stuff)
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<pango> On Debian for example, it's just a matter of creating a ~/.lessfilter: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=46210
<bluestorm> I think we could have a non-HTML format for handwritten documentation such as doc/batteries/html/extensions.html ; perhaps pure ocamldoc comments could do the job
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: might be possible.
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: you're officially in charge of this.
<bluestorm> that way we could generate the HTML (and have api-doc homogeneity for free), or another format if found useful in the future
<bluestorm> :]
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<bluestorm> pango: so that's lynx as a preproc, thanks
<Yoric[DT]> bluestorm: regarding your rant -- I completely agree. The reason why I removed some of your tests is that, well, they didn't compile.
<bluestorm> i'll investigate that but i still think HTML -> sane text format is a strange idea, and the other waywould be bettor
<Yoric[DT]> (i.e. they were only parsing tests)
<bluestorm> oh, i wasn't referring to that
<bluestorm> i'll try to do tests that compile
<bluestorm> but obviously, for syntax extensions, we can't keep only the text that compile
<Yoric[DT]> I know.
<Yoric[DT]> We need to find an appropriate protocol.
<bluestorm> eg. we also need to tests things that *should* raise a syntax error
<bluestorm> -s
<Yoric[DT]> Care to be in charge of that, too?
<bluestorm> I'll see :]
<Yoric[DT]> :)
<Yoric[DT]> I'm currently somewhere between "plugging holes", attempting to fix bugs 139/153/156 and answering RfF / bug reports.
<bluestorm> I don't have 3.11 yet but I'll investigate on 156 when i'll have made the switch
<bluestorm> I'm not sure you should bother with this one
<Yoric[DT]> ok
<Yoric[DT]> Well, I see a fix for 139/153 but it's quite complex.
<Yoric[DT]> (it involves auto-generating a batteries.mli from *.mli, while rewriting everything that is private)
<thelema> Yoric[DT]: any reason to use Invalid_string instead of Not_found for string searching functions?
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: iirc, that was the choice of Extlib.
<thelema> ok, I'm fixing.
<thelema> what should String.to_int raise on failure?
<thelema> Invalid_argument?
<Yoric[DT]> How could it fail?
<thelema> being given a word, like "five"
<Yoric[DT]> Oh, my bad.
* Yoric[DT] had misread.
<Yoric[DT]> Mmmmhhh....
<Yoric[DT]> I'd say [Invalid_string]
<thelema> :(
<Yoric[DT]> After all, that's why this exception is there, isn't it?
* thelema wants to get rid of the exception
<Yoric[DT]> Why do you wish to get rid of it?
<thelema> There's no such thing as an invalid string.
<thelema> no string is inherently invalid.
<thelema> (excepting constructing strings using C that don't comply with ocaml's standard for strings
<Yoric[DT]> I understand your point.
<Yoric[DT]> On the other hand, I'd rather avoid to break code which depends on Extlib.
<Yoric[DT]> (and, from what I understand, a number of projects do)
<thelema> double :(
<thelema> I might make the argument that this breaks compilation, so it's very noticeable, and the fix is a simple s/Invalid_string/Not_found/
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: we could ask rwmjones if he knows which projects this would break.
* thelema stashes the change
<bluestorm> btw Yoric[DT], the documentation of my "include Interfaces.Enumerable" thing is not quite right (see for example doc of the List module), do you have any idea of where that comes from ?
<bluestorm> (the HTML has "include List.Enumerable" instead of "include Interfaces.Enumerable" and Interfaces isn't documented)
<Yoric[DT]> mmmm....
<Yoric[DT]> Sounds like something which should be reported as a bug.
* Yoric[DT] will take a look whenever possible.
<Yoric[DT]> (if you're interested, the culprit should be in build/odoc_tags.ml around line 275 but I don't have time to check it right now)
<hcarty> Yoric[DT]: When/if you have a chance, http://0ok.org/ocaml/cairo.godiva is the file for cairo-ocaml
<Yoric[DT]> hcarty: it doesn't require any conf?
<hcarty> Yoric[DT]: It uses a configure script
<hcarty> autoconf
<hcarty> A conf-cairo would be ideal
<Yoric[DT]> Yeah, but typically, GODI still provides conf-foo .
<Yoric[DT]> Ok.
<hcarty> But I don't know how to do that process yet, and I'd like to test this portion first
<Yoric[DT]> ok
<Yoric[DT]> I'll check this after dinner.
<hcarty> Yoric[DT]: Thanks. No rush if you have to wait. It works here, but I've only tested on one system
<thelema> any objections to me importing Camomile's ISet and IMap (integer sets and maps using range AvlTrees) into Set and Map? (i.e. Set.ISet)
<thelema> They're not at feature parity with Set, sadly, but they could be soon.
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: that would put something very specialized in the middle of something very generic.
<thelema> I'd rather not add *one more* toplevel module
<thelema> or rather two more.
<thelema> but I expect sets/maps over ints are common enough to be optimized... I guess I should benchmark...
<flux> yoric[dt], wouldn't that make more sense than putting something generic in the middle of something specialized, though?
* Yoric[DT] will need to ponder things.
<Yoric[DT]> (on an unrelated note: my Batteries mail folder has just reached 666 messages)
* Yoric[DT] will return,
<thelema> muhuhaha!
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<flux> \,,/
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<Yoric[DT]> :)
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: flux: I don't know.
<Yoric[DT]> While I understand the role of ISet/IMap, I don't see them as fitting inside Set/Map.
<Yoric[DT]> Mmmhh....
<Yoric[DT]> Of course, since Set and Map are essentially functors, that's probably not an issue, after all.
<thelema> I suggest Set as a container for many set related things. At the moment, the only thing it has is a functor
<thelema> I might even put PSet inside set somehow... might.
<thelema> (uh oh, the heirarchy is returning... a little bit)
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<Yoric[DT]> So yes, you have my blessing, as long as ISet/IMap have (at least) the same signature as Set.S/Map.S .
<thelema> Well, I guess it's time to see what's yet to be written...
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<thelema> just enum, backwards and of_enum... nice.
<Yoric[DT]> thelema: don't forget [map] and [filter_map]
<Yoric[DT]> (I know, I forgot them in Set, I'll try and fix this)
<thelema> and *sexp* and print
<Yoric[DT]> Oh, yes, that, too.
<thelema> iset/imap have some nice functions that could be added to set/map... in time.
* Yoric[DT] will return again.
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<jonasb> hi all, I get a compilation error when I try to move the definition of a record type to a module's .mli file, like this: http://pastebin.com/d21b507c6
* jonasb thinks he found the solution, need to duplicate the record type in the .ml file
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