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<whitequark>
Core.Std removes Gc.finalise? O_o
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<kgboperative>
hey guys, ocaml newb here
<kgboperative>
im having trouble installing opam on debian wheezy
<kgboperative>
anyone here have anysuggestions?
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<kgboperative>
specifically it's not in the apt repo, the ppa doesn't support wheezy (i think), and the shell installer requires that I have glibc v2.14 (where I have 2.13 by default)
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<whitequark>
kgboperative: wheezy is oldstable isn't it?
<kgboperative>
current stable
<whitequark>
oh no, it's stable...
<kgboperative>
it's in the testing and unstable repos, but not for me :(
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<whitequark>
I was just very surprised by ocaml
<whitequark>
oh, I just realized what happened, nevermind
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<jpdeplaix>
whitequark: « ../Makefile.ocaml:99: *** unterminated call to function `strip': missing `)'. Stop. » :(
<jpdeplaix>
hopefully, the uninstall phase is not critical with opam
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<jpdeplaix>
NOOOOOOOO
<jpdeplaix>
whitequark: I had also the same issue while installing :(
<whitequark>
jpdeplaix: oh, crap, I've missed a slash
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<jpdeplaix>
whitequark: apart from that, it seems to work without any LD_PRELOAD or OCAMLPARAM :)
<whitequark>
jpdeplaix: nice
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<kkielak>
ddosia: hi
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<kkielak>
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<kkielak>
hi all
<kkielak>
sorry for stupid question, but how to find the entry point in a big project like mldonkey?
<adrien>
there is no single entry-point
<Drup>
kkielak: are you trying to contribute or just take it as learning exemple ?
<adrien>
I'd attach gdb, break, and check the callstack
<Drup>
if the later, according to what I heard, mldonky is terrible for that
<adrien>
as Drup wants to say: mldonkey in the awful example
<kkielak>
Drup: at the moment i'm trying to understand, and later i might be a contributor ... but it's a long way :)
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<kkielak>
adrien: could you please point me to better example? preferably with some network communication
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<kkielak>
adrien: i would like to use ocaml to write a set of tools that would connect to distributed filsesystem product that my company is writing
<kkielak>
adrien: regarding this gdb stuff - i dont mean entry point in gdb, i just need to find the place in the source code where the execution starts
<kkielak>
adrien: to find my way from top to bottom
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<kkielak>
adrien: i was able to find strings displayed during startup, but there must be some kind of "int main(int argc, ....)"
<Drup>
there isn't always such thing is ocaml programs :/
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<ggole>
Each OCaml module is a potential entry point, really
<kkielak>
ggole: but in a project you have to point the one, right?
<sgnb>
kkielak: you can findout with ocamldebug (in bytecode)
<ggole>
In a particular compilation, one module will be entered first, yes.
<ggole>
But there's nothing to dictate that in the source code.
<kkielak>
ggole: ok, so the first module to the compiler is the one that starts the execution, right?
<kkielak>
ggole: so i can look it up in makefile for example?
<ggole>
Yeah, looking at the makefile might help
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<kkielak>
ggole: you don't seem to be convinced :)
<kkielak>
ggole: there has to be strong semantics on this start thing
<ggole>
Well, large projects can have complicated builds with many results
<Drup>
kkielak: as said before, mldonky is well known to be quite impossible to decipher :x
<kkielak>
Drup: yaeh! i can tell after few hours with vim + merlin
<adrien>
16:10 kkielak : adrien: regarding this gdb stuff - i dont mean entry point in gdb, i just need to find the place in the source code where the execution starts
<ggole>
It's also possible for a project to not have an entry point because it is a library
<adrien>
yes, gdb, break, check the top of the stack
<adrien>
that will lead you to the effective main loop
<adrien>
but it's likely that other things have happened elsewhere
<Drup>
kkielak: why don't you try to use one of the file system library directly ?
<adrien>
but they will probably be small
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<Drup>
kkielak: I'm not sure in what mldonkey will help you for this specific stuff.
<adrien>
kkielak: each toplevel expression in each module is executed and evaluated at startup
<adrien>
most of them will be funtion definitions but they can be function calls too
<adrien>
as far nice network-related projects, I don't know
<adrien>
mldonkey definitely isn't a good exaple of modern stuff and libraries though
<Drup>
unisson maybe ? there is a bit of network in it
<Drup>
I don't how the code is
<Drup>
cohttp should be easy to read
<kkielak>
adrien: i dont need anything big, cos im still learning and mldonkey was listed on ocaml.org as a good example :)
<kkielak>
Drup: i'll check this cohttp
<Drup>
kkielak: success story doesn't mean good code quality
<kkielak>
Drup: thanks a lot
<Drup>
kkielak: on top of that, you may need cohttp if you are doing http stuff :p
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<ygrek>
success story means practical code
<ygrek>
and that's quite a bit
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<adrien>
mldonkey is a _lot_ of code; so not great to learn
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<kkielak_>
if i compile those files with ocamlopt -linkall and run a.out then all top-level definitions are executed
<kkielak_>
so both print_endline commands are executed
<kkielak_>
it seems strange to me, that the only way to find the running path in the program is outside of source code and depends on the source code file position in the compilation chain ...
<ollehar>
'a option ref?
<ollehar>
cannot be generelized
<Drup>
kkielak_: it may be strange, but it's extremly convenient sometime to have effectful modules.
<kkielak_>
if I look for example at any big project there are plenty top-level definitions, so that means that when compiled binary is executed all top level definitions are executed in order in which source files where listed
<ollehar>
nm, solved
<kkielak_>
maybe, but i come from c/python/perl world and it seems strange
<kkielak_>
anyway i don't get this advantage yet ...
<Drup>
kkielak_: everything in ocaml seems strange from the c/python/perl, just add it to the list :D
<Drup>
kkielak_: for most ocaml programs, it's not that much of an issue, people naturally structure the "main" stuff in a single .ml to gather the various parts. It just allow more flexibility
<Drup>
kkielak_: for exemple, if you define a persistent data structure that is stored in the fs, it's convenient to do all those stuff together
<adrien>
kkielak_: it's very useful for constructs like
<adrien>
let id =
<adrien>
let i = ref (-1) in
<adrien>
fun () -> let a = !i in incr i; a
<adrien>
no need to do a separate "init" which you'll forget to do anyway
<adrien>
that said, if you find people abusing that, I'll be happy to help you beat them :)
<adrien>
s/beat/kick/
<kkielak_>
i'll have to think about that
<kkielak_>
the construct to beating ...:)
<kkielak_>
not beating :)
<Drup>
adrien's example is more simple than mine =')
<adrien>
that's because you're abusing the functionality while I'm not :P
<adrien>
(just kidding)
<Drup>
abusing, I don't know, but you use it *a lot* when you do eliom stuff
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<kkielak_>
ok, thank a lot. gotta go
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<adrien>
web is garbage and garbage in, garbage out ;p
<Drup>
adrien you are doing web now ! :D
<adrien>
yeah, and I use it as an excuse to do really bad visual designs
<Drup>
with ponies.
<adrien>
no, that's only inside the lablgtk tutorial
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<ygrek>
adrien, sure
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<ollehar>
given type A of int * int, can I deconstruct it in a let, like
<ollehar>
let (A x, y) = <function that return an A>
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<Drup>
ollehar: let A (x,y) = ....
<ollehar>
Drup: ah, yeah, I just realized!
<ollehar>
awesome feature, btw
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<Drup>
ollehar: patern matching :p
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<boom583>
Is OCAML growing or it it still just jane street using it?
<adrien>
imho, growing; but I can't tell why it is growing more than before
<adrien>
at least I can't find a single reason
<boom583>
i don't know a damn thing about functional programming. never done it before. can functional programming do everything that procedural can? is it hard to get into? i guess it uses a diff part of your brain
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<boom583>
i first heard about ocaml on the jane street website. wonder why they picked it...
<adrien>
functional programming can do elegantly most things that procedural can; for all the other cases, ocaml support procedural programming too
<boom583>
hmok
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<mrvn>
a procedure being a function returning unit?
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<whitequark>
is it possible to cancel an lwt thread waiting on IO?
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<def-lkb>
Lwt.cancel ?
<whitequark>
does nothing
<whitequark>
from docs it seems like it can only cancel waiting on the task created by Lwt.task()
<whitequark>
github search results confirm that
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