<nicoo>
gasche: As a client only, according to the website
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<pippijn>
adrien_oww: do you have an idea what to look for when I want to find an apartment near (not in) paris?
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<pippijn>
adrien_oww: apartments *in* paris are very expensive
<kerneis>
pippijn: do you what criteria, or where to llok for?
<pippijn>
"not too far from the 5th arondissement"
<pippijn>
would be one
<kerneis>
so, basically look for public transportation
<pippijn>
40 minutes by metro would be "not too far"
<kerneis>
RER is another option: allows you to go further away (=cheaper) for the time, but sometimes less reliable
<kerneis>
the same* time
<kerneis>
north-east of Paris has a bad reputation in general, hence cheaper flats
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<kerneis>
south is not too crazy either
<pippijn>
ok, but then it's probably not a good idea to live in the north-east
<kerneis>
probably your best option is to decide on some cities which seem convenient (for transport, etc)
<kerneis>
say half a dozen
<kerneis>
and then ask people what they think about them
<pippijn>
ok, sounds like a good idea
<kerneis>
they are definitely some neighbourhood that you should avoid, but not all places in the north-east are crappy
<kerneis>
(for instance)
<gasche>
pippijn: where physically are you going to work?
<gasche>
hm
<pippijn>
gasche: ecole normale superieure
<gasche>
(could Xavier Rival have picked a candidate so fast?)
<gasche>
ENS is close from RER B
<gasche>
RER is a way of transportation that is more tiring than most metro lines, but faster and goes farther outside Paris
<pippijn>
more tiring?
<gasche>
it can get really crowded on rush hours
<pippijn>
ah
<gasche>
if, as a typical dutch guy, you want to bike to work, then picking a place inside Paris is better
<pippijn>
I would like to, but inside paris will probably be too expensive
<gasche>
it depends on your budget
<pippijn>
I don't know yet
<gasche>
I'm currently paying 50% of my wage on housing, which is sensibly more than recommended by anyone
<gasche>
(I'm inside Paris)
<gasche>
besides the North-East, say 19th-20st, you should look at the 13th district which is one of the less expensive ones, and very nice to live in
<gasche>
(and it's bike-close from ENS)
<gasche>
but looking for a place *anywhere in Paris* and then sorting by price will give you those places anyway
<gasche>
you should also consider shared flats as they're less expensive
<gasche>
(it's less nice if you come with a partner or more)
<pippijn>
I'm coming by myself
<pippijn>
From €26,030 to €69,783 => 30% income tax (if I read the table on wikipedia correctly)
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<gasche>
also, if you're not a french speaker, any form of interaction with some kind of administration (be it the government if you need some papers, or just creating a bank account) will be painful; do not hesitate to ask for help systematically
<pippijn>
I don't speak french besides counting to 10 and introducing myself
<pippijn>
but I hope to learn it quickly when I'm there
<gasche>
(creating a bank account is terrible because they're usuall a dependency loop between the bank account and the paycheck)
<pippijn>
hm :\ I see
<gasche>
s/they're/there is/
<Kakadu_>
pippijn: I will wnat ot hear success story about learning french
<gasche>
you're not a student anymore, right?
<pippijn>
right
* Kakadu_
tries to remember differences between 3 kinds of 'e' in French
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<pippijn>
gasche: 13th seems not bad
<pippijn>
what does "studio" mean? that's 1 room?
<Kakadu_>
I think it's when kitchen & bedroom is combined in one big room
<pippijn>
ah
<gasche>
yep
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<pippijn>
and bathroom?
<gasche>
usually not
<Kakadu_>
;)
<gasche>
but the bathroom is not counted as a room
<pippijn>
ok
<gasche>
in french, "shared flat" is said "colocation"
<gasche>
that's an interesting venue
<pippijn>
ok, so colocation is with shared bathroom
<gasche>
not only the bathroom
<gasche>
colocation is when people team up to rent a larger place and split the costs
<pippijn>
ah, yes, I'm in such a thing right now
<pippijn>
in german it's called "wohngemeinschaft"
<gasche>
yeah
<gasche>
WG-wohnung
<pippijn>
right
<gasche>
ranges from people forming basically a group of friends to total indifference besides allocating shower slots in the morning
<gasche>
but it's interesting because rents are not proportional to surface, small places are overpriced as there is more demand
<pippijn>
makes sense
<gasche>
a german guy at IRILL has been in a few colocs so far, I'll ask him for tips for the foreigner
<pippijn>
thanks
<gasche>
hm
<gasche>
ENS has some housing available for visiting researchers
<pippijn>
I don't think I'm either of those things
<gasche>
yes
<pippijn>
visiting or researcher
<gasche>
but they might still be able to host you for a week or so, which can be helpful to bootstrap things
<pippijn>
ah, yes
<gasche>
ask them
<pippijn>
I'm looking on pap.fr now, but the site seems to have gone down just now
<gasche>
(you basically won't be able to find anything if you cannot show up in person during the period where tenants are selecting candidates)
<pippijn>
hm, yes
<gasche>
at which time of the year are you arriving?
<pippijn>
in january
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<gasche>
that should be easier than now
<pippijn>
studio in the 13th with 16m²: 548€
<gasche>
some people pay 900€ for a place in Paris; anything below can be good luck, or a really bad place
<pippijn>
one with 26.5m² in the 13th is 825€
<Drup>
that's not really right, gasche, if you accept to have a small appartement (and without furniture, obvisouly)
<gasche>
I'm not saying 900€ is the average price
<pippijn>
I don't need furniture
<gasche>
but it's not that much of an outlier either
<adrien_oww>
pippijn: btw, pay attention to scams: don't pay anything before you have proofs
<pippijn>
adrien_oww: ok, I'll keep that in mind
<pippijn>
thanks
<adrien_oww>
pippijn: many scams will do their best to take pics of a place but not show the surroundings from the windows (the opposite doesn't mean it's not a scam)
<pippijn>
I won't pay until I've been in it
<pippijn>
what kind of scams could I expect?
<gasche>
when I looked for housing in Munich, I encountered a few scam attempts, that were quite easy to spot
<gasche>
people asking you to pay online, for one
<gasche>
real renters will never require that
<adrien_oww>
or deposits before visiting
<pippijn>
pay online like paypal?
<pippijn>
so I should only pay by bank transfer
<gasche>
it was "Ok, you can go in this apartment, unfortunately I'm abroad at the moment, send me some money online and I will send you the keys"
<pippijn>
ah, well :)
<adrien_oww>
pretty much, yeah
<gasche>
you should not pay anything before you have visited the apartment and have the keys
<adrien_oww>
and btw2, in france, there are fairly strong laws about renting and they protect you well
<gasche>
you'll be asked a "caution", some amount of money the renter will keep in case you escape or destroy anything, and then a monthly rent
<pippijn>
right, we have the caution thing here as well
<gasche>
(caution often is approx. one month of salary, given back to you when you leave)
<gasche>
the main problem with genuine renters (I haven't seen so much scam attempts in Paris; at least where you're physically there)
<gasche>
is that they have insane requirement about solvability
<gasche>
you have to convince them that you, and both your parents, are millionaires
<pippijn>
:\
<gasche>
(that is yet another thing that is rather easier with colocs)
<adrien_oww>
hah, that's right, they can be really annoying with that; like *really*
<gasche>
more seriously, landlords don't see an issue in asking you to be paid 3x, 4x the rent monthly
<gasche>
when that rules out 90% of the french population
<gasche>
(in Paris)
<adrien_oww>
friend of mine has been asked for 2 people who each earned 3x the rent
<gasche>
90%, I may be exaggerating, but that's *well* above the median french salary
<adrien_oww>
which was > 1000€/month
<adrien_oww>
of course, the one asking for such guarantees earned way less
<gasche>
you can get lucky and find a landlord that is less stupid about this
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<gasche>
or ask for referees indeed
<gasche>
(you may also ask the ENS for a letter of recommendation; it's a bit random but it could help)
<pippijn>
maybe they can give me some advice as well
<adrien_oww>
CROUS maybe too?
<ggole>
Wow, what the hell am I doing
<ggole>
This code is the worst I've written in years -_-
<adrien_oww>
it's code you wrote 2 months ago and which you're only looking at again now?
<ggole>
No, I'm modifying it at the moment
<ggole>
It's not changing in good ways, let's put it that way.
<ggole>
I dread to think what I'll see if I look at it again in 2 months
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* ggole
considers a rewrite
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<watermind>
thomasga: weird... so it is a blocker but made it to the final release anyway?
<thomasga>
that's not that bad
<thomasga>
(ie. that's just a wrong message)
<thomasga>
will be fixed in the final release
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<watermind>
thomasga: I see, ok I'll stop worring about it then, thank you!
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<pippijn>
gasche: by the way, "bike distance" for me is up to 15km
<pippijn>
so in theory (I don't know what the traffic situation is in paris), I could be in suresnes and it would be an acceptable (though maximal) bike distance
<gasche>
well
<gasche>
inside Paris, there are enough bike paths for this to be comfortable
<gasche>
outside, less so
<gasche>
(and I'm not sure ENS has showers for its workers)
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<asmanur>
gasche: well, you have a notion of comport wrt to city biking that's very relaxed
<gasche>
when I visited Cambridge I used the "Bünzli Bike" -- a bike Daniel bought already-used when he went there, then gracefully left at the lab
<gasche>
it was quite fun to be riding "the Bünzli Bike"
<Drup>
depending on where you bike in paris, it can be quite chalenging :p
<companion_cube>
I guess if it was a module, it would be called "Bb"
<gasche>
remember that pippijn is dutch; those people are fierceful bikers
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<kerneis>
pippijn: the city I grew up in (and where I rented my first flat) is Maisons-Alfort
<kerneis>
one of the many nice things about M-A is the bicycle path following the Seine from M-A to Paris 13th
<kerneis>
(btw, nobody says M-A except me)
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<kerneis>
it's certainly more expensive than Ivry on average
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<kerneis>
or even Alfortville
<kerneis>
all of those cities are close enough to bike from easily
<gasche>
you also have metro 8, but is less nice than metro 7 connection-wise (and it's slower)
<kerneis>
and less expensive than Paris itself
<kerneis>
(metro 8 is great, except to go to ENS)
<pippijn>
668€ for 16m² in the 13th (rent+charges) is something I'd seriously consider
<kerneis>
(but it crosses almost every other metro line)
<gasche>
it takes hour to go from some Maison-Alfort stop to an interesting connection, which would be with line 6
<pippijn>
I saw that it's only 7km from villejuif to ENS (again, I don't know the bike situation)
<gasche>
s/hours/too long/
<kerneis>
pippijn: in M-A, the current price for a nice 1-bedroom 35m^2 flat is probably around 800€
<adrien_oww>
and I actually managed to get some more room in a crowded RER: long hair, hoodie on and looking tired
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<adrien_oww>
pippijn: chambres have beds; pièces include things like the living room
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<pippijn>
ah
<pippijn>
ok, so 1 piece means just a bedroom
<adrien_oww>
and bathroom
<kerneis>
or just a living room, depending on how you think of it :-)
<pippijn>
ok :) yes
<kerneis>
1 pièce is basically the same as a studio, except it usually means a separate kitchen (but you should check)
<pippijn>
interesting.. croissant means increasing
<kerneis>
it also means croissant
<adrien_oww>
f000d \o/
<Drup>
croissant also means croissant
<pippijn>
yeah
<Drup>
kerneis: damn !
<pippijn>
I never knew what the food name might come from
<pippijn>
kerneis: yes, on this website, studios are also listed under 1 piece
<Drup>
adrien_oww: I have the long hair and sometimes the hood and the tired look, but I'm still not tall enough :(
<adrien_oww>
beard? you need to get better at looking like a hobo
<pippijn>
I'm 1.80, is that tall enough to look like a hobo?
<pippijn>
actually I'd rather not look like a hobo
<adrien_oww>
you only need the hobo look while you're in the RER
<adrien_oww>
"dapt or die"
<adrien_oww>
a*
<pippijn>
fake beard, tiredness-makeup, hoodie
<pippijn>
oh, there are also studettes
<Drup>
adrien_oww: no beard, you saw me already :p
<pippijn>
is that a female studio?
<adrien_oww>
Drup: hmmm, I suck at remembering people ='(
<Drup>
pippijn: x)
<pippijn>
the first few pages (croissant price) are all studios
<Drup>
pippijn: studettes are supposed to be small studios
<Drup>
but in paris, studios are already ridiculously small, so ... :D
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<DanielDiaz>
hi there! I am pretty new with OCaml and I want to know how to build (if possible) a custom type where type constructors accept functions as arguments. For instance, something like: type ('a,'b) map = Map of 'a -> 'b... Is it possible?
<adrien_oww>
you need parens
<adrien_oww>
(around "'a -> 'b")
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<DanielDiaz>
ok... thank you adrien_oww. It seems that in my particular case I was missing tons of parens
<DanielDiaz>
and that was all... silly mistake, thank you
<adrien_oww>
:)
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<gasche>
"croissant" also means crescent, as in crescent moon, which I guess is where the pastry name comes from
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<gasche>
it's one of the french pastries called "Viennoiseries", literally "pastries from Vienna", as they were introduced in the 19th century by an austrian bakery in Paris
<pippijn>
so croissants are from austria?
<gasche>
yes
<pippijn>
I never knew
<gasche>
but it's not a typical austrian pastry today
<pippijn>
are baguettes from denmark?
<gasche>
some people think that the crescent shape was suggested to austrians by their struggles with the ottoman turks, but that's phantasized history
<pippijn>
hehe
<gasche>
also I briefly discussed lodging with Jonathan that's an expert
<Drup>
croissant are also called croissant, even if they are straight. which is confusing.
<gasche>
he says (1) you could consider coming to Paris over a week-end to make a few apartment visits, and get an idea of what to expect (even before the date you'll actually settle in Paris)
<gasche>
s/make/do/
<gasche>
(2) you don't need a work permit because you're in the "good" part of the EU, and you can probably avoid creating a bank account altogether; apparently EU regulation impose european banks not to charge extra fees on intra-EU money transfers, so you can draw your cash from your dutch card and give your dutch IBAN to people
<pippijn>
(btw I live in germany)
<kerneis>
gasche about (2): remember pippijn will get paid by a french public entity
<kerneis>
I'm not saying it won't work, but trouble ahead
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<gasche>
I would rather discuss paperwork with the ENS than with an underpaid incompetent employee in the frontend of a bank
<kerneis>
the kind of entity which chokes on RIBs if they are not "printed by the bank"
<kerneis>
fair point
<gasche>
an american intern here tried to open a bank account to receive his paychecks, but they wouldn't let him unless he had a proof of salary (... which of course couldn't be versed without a local bank account)
<gasche>
I phoned the bank to complain, they essentially did not understand what the problem was
<gasche>
(he went to another bank)
<pippijn>
(1) is a good idea, I'm not sure how to do that yet
<pippijn>
(2) would be great, if possible
<pippijn>
if withdrawals in france from german bank accounts are unproblematic
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<gasche>
check with your bank, but they are supposed to be free
<pippijn>
I'll check with them tomorrow morning
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<vbmithr>
Hi
<vbmithr>
Do anybody knows what happens to shared modules (.cmxs) when there is C code involved ?
<vbmithr>
Context: I try to dynlink ctypes.cmxs, but it fails:
<Drup>
olliefr: if you download the code, you will probably be able to generate the documentation
<Drup>
(with "make doc")
<olliefr>
hmm, i'll try; is there a good reason why there seem not to be something like this in ocaml? http://docs.python.org/2/library/
<Drup>
there is one, but every package need to upload it own documentation
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<olliefr>
could you please give me an url? i cannot find it :(
<olliefr>
also, if i install it via opam, would that install the docs as well?
<Drup>
unfortunatly, no :/
<Drup>
about your question, I was just saying that there is an equivalent to the automatic documentation generation
<Drup>
not that their was an actual documentation for the uri package
<Drup>
(online, at least)
<olliefr>
thanks, i'll try make doc now
<avsm>
i have some travis patches to automatically sync a GitHub pages branch with the doc, but havent had a chance to push it yet
<Drup>
avsm: on this subject, how is opam-doc going on ?
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<avsm>
pretty good; there's an opam switch that generates working html now. aiming to get an RWO snapshot page up soon and then a more general purpose one
<avsm>
it touches the entire build stack; not a pretty patch :-)
<olliefr>
avsm: does this mean i'll be able to read documentation online? how do you read the documentation - manual 'make doc' for the source of every package that you are using, or is there a more clever way? :)
<Drup>
olliefr: the point of opam-doc, which is an ongoing work, is to upload the documentation for every opam package (automatically, ofc).
<avsm>
yeah. it's one cross-referenced source for a set of packages (not all packages, since some conflict)
<olliefr>
that would be great. so, please correct me if i'm wrong but currently my only choice is to manually download the source for every package that i use and do 'make doc'?
<olliefr>
sorry for so many questions, i'm just trying to get my head round it, after fpdays2013 :D
<companion_cube>
what is opam-doc ?
<Drup>
olliefr: no, a lot of package upload the documentation by them self
<Drup>
olliefr: and you can find the documentation on their webpage
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<companion_cube>
avsm: is ocaml-doc based on some enhancement of ocamldoc?