flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.01.0 http://bit.ly/1851A3R | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<BAMbanda> anyone alive in here?
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<Drup> probably not :p
<BAMbanda> Drup, life! Do you think its practical to learn multiple functional languages at once?
<BAMbanda> such as haskell and lisp, even javascript?
<BAMbanda> to get an overall feel for the paradigm as well as to be flexible?
<Drup> why do you want to do them all at once ?
<Drup> are you in a hurry or something ?
<BAMbanda> Drup, i like programming a lot.
<Drup> just pick an order
<BAMbanda> no, but I kinda want to find my niche. I use js for work
<BAMbanda> lisp to feel hackerish, and haskell for sort of the same
<Drup> less confusion, more deep insight
<BAMbanda> hmm alright, I must make a difficult deision
<BAMbanda> may I ask you what you like about ocaml, as opposed to the other options
<Drup> just pick an order, it's not going to look you in anything anyway :)
<ollehar> (I'm alive, too!)
<Drup> lock*
<ollehar> (Could recommend SICP)
<BAMbanda> ah ok. that's nice
<Drup> also, to be honest, javascript is barely functionnal ;)
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<BAMbanda> haha ok then. I'll play around and see what feels right
<ollehar> (SICP teaches Scheme. I went to OCaml from there.)
<BAMbanda> SICP,
<BAMbanda> added to my list of eventual endeavors
<BAMbanda> polyglot
<ollehar> SICP = Structures and interpretations of computer programs
<ollehar> available online for free
<Drup> about ocaml compare to the other ... I will only talk about haskell, because that's the only one which make sense to compare too
<BAMbanda> coool,
<BAMbanda> and I'm listening Drup, actually I gotta go, but I look forward to hearing if I catch you in here when im back
<Drup> haskell get you deeper in the whole purity and functionnal aspect of things
<Drup> ocaml is far more practical
<BAMbanda> short and brief, good stuff
<Drup> which one is the best is up to each one, I prefer ocaml for actually doing stuff
<BAMbanda> I wonder why haskell's irc room is so filled
<BAMbanda> 1200
<BAMbanda> Drup, yeah preference it all comes down to
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<mildfate> Hey guys, I'm trying to install OCaml on a shared server. I've set the prefix variable to my local directory (/home/me/local) and TMPDIR to /home/me/tmp but I still get permissions error, namely when it tries to compile the test program. Is there a way to install ocaml without root and locally?
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<Drup> mildfate: I don't really have a direct answer, but if you can install opam ,it will handle all this stuff for you
<Drup> this a bit recursive, though.
<mildfate> Drup: I've found that it's because I don't have permissions for "as"
<mildfate> But in the ocaml installation, I can give "as" options, is there an option to select a different assembler
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<Drup> wow, you can't use as ? huh, I don't really now, sorry :x
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<maurer> So, I'm getting a stack overflow, but if I try to run it under ocamldebug to get a trace, it times out and disconnects from the process
<maurer> Is there any way to make ocamldebug stay more connected or get at least a backtrace?
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<adrien> you're getting a Stack Overflow exception?
<adrien> and not a crash?
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<maurer> yeah, getting Fatal error: exception Stack_overflow
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<adrien> compile your program with -g
<adrien> run with
<adrien> OCAMLRUNPARAM="b" ./a.out
<adrien> to get the OCAMLRUNPARAM environment variable set to "b" in your program
<maurer> The OK, re-running
<adrien> it enables printing backtraces on uncaught exceptions; you can have a look at the Printexc module too which will let you enable/disable that too
<maurer> I seem to recall the last time this happened needing to use the debugger though because the backtrace just printed a hundred lines of map
<adrien> for stack overflows, maybe
<adrien> but stack overflows usually indicate that you have unbound recursion
<adrien> or too deep
* adrien has to leave soon
<maurer> So, the last time this happened I had just mapped a moderate sized list
<maurer> I'm still waiting for it to finish, turns out a program that errors a minute thirty into native takes a long time to error under dbg
<maurer> OK, got backtrace, time to see if it's any use
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<Kakadu> I have wrote library with .plpack file. There is an issue: when I build it 1st time --- it builds OK, but when I build it 2nd time it rebuilds everyting -- it doesn't remember last successful build
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<Kakadu> maybe my myocamlbuild.ml sucks
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<Kakadu> opam instructions: http://ostapers.github.io/
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<companion_cube> o/
<Kakadu> salut!
<companion_cube> hi
<Kakadu> btw, what o/ means?
<Kakadu> I was thinking that it some kind of greeting
<Kakadu> but now I'm not so sure
<companion_cube> yes
<companion_cube> it's a tiny person greeting you with his/her arm
<companion_cube> o/\o high five.
<adrien_oww> o//o\
* adrien_oww hitting companion_cube
<companion_cube> awwwww
<companion_cube> o/0
* companion_cube reinventing the wheel
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<avsm> companion_cube: it's a rewritten compiler frontend that uses cmt files
<companion_cube> opam-doc?
* companion_cube is not very up-to-date about cmd/cmt/cm* files
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<avsm> yes
<companion_cube> it would be great to have a place where documentation for all opam packages could be found ^^
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<gasche> avsm: did you see http://lite3.framapad.org/p/p5xzBUM4Ii ?
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<gasche> I'm thinking of setting up a very informal "sprint" in December around the idea of writing small libraries, or packaging existing but hidden ones
<gasche> I'll ask Roberto if we could have some physical space at IRILL
<gasche> (over the week-end)
<gasche> I was thinking you cambridge people may be interested in doing so as well
<gasche> right now I'm collecting ideas of useful targets on this webpage, so this alone could be helpful
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<AltGr> companion_cube, http://ocaml-redesign.github.io/pkg/docs (wip) ?
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<avsm> gasche: sure, although december is pretty packed timetable wise around here. january tends to be better for hackathons
<avsm> less eating, more coding
<companion_cube> :D
<gasche> avsm: could you ask your troops to think about small-libraries ideas? I'm sure dsheets is overflooding with suggestions internally
<gasche> I'm all ears regarding specific week-ends that you'd find suitable (why not in Jan)
<avsm> gasche: email please
<gasche> ok
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<gasche> Kakadu: the cause of the problem is the fact that you have two ostap.mlpack accessible from your -I flags
<gasche> I understand why you use this two-layer structure; it may be possible to avoid rebuildind by using 'traverse' instead of 'include'
<gasche> there you go
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<gasche> Kakadu: pull request sent
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<gasche> def-lkb:
<def-lkb> thx
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<gasche> mfp: ideas for http://lite3.framapad.org/p/p5xzBUM4Ii ?
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<mfp> gasche: well, atm. I'd like to have a process pool (with early fork()ing so as to avoid pbs with resources) to run async background tasks in the Lwt monad (last time I looked, none of the existing libs did exactly what I wanted). Would that count?
<Kakadu> [13:56:45] <gasche>Kakadu: pull request sent
<gasche> mfp: can you build a first usable version of that over a week-end?
<companion_cube> mfp: maybe ocamlnetmulticore? something like this?
<mfp> oh and I have a a GZip_stream_lwt with things like uncompress : Lwt_io.input_channel -> Lwt_io.input_channel Lwt.t
<Kakadu> ah, I got it
<mfp> gasche: I think so; in fact, I'm probably doing it soon :P
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<mfp> companion_cube: I didn't really care about its communication via shared mem for efficiency reasons (IIRC). https://github.com/MyLifeLabs/nproc was very close to what I wanted, but there was some issue (IIRC reentrancy, not sure).
<companion_cube> maybe you could patch it then? :)
<mfp> ah yes that must be it: val submit : t -> f: ('a -> 'b) -> 'a -> 'b option Lwt.t
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<mfp> this means you only "detach" once and cannot do it recursively unless you create another pool for each worker
<mfp> it'd be better to be able to perform [submit f x] in the worker (implicit pool inherited from parent) recursively, which might send the task to any other worker (or itself)
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<gasche> Romain Bardou presented a version of what you describe for distributed computing
<mfp> another mildly interesting extension (which I don't really need) would be to measure the actual computation/communication cost ratio, so as to decide when to run locally in recursive algos
<gasche> (I mean socket communication)
<mfp> was it pro-something?
<mfp> procord
<Kakadu> gasche: Thanks for your pull request. You rock!
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<mfp> procord -> I only remember that it didn't scratch my itch either :P My issues with procord (quick glance at the code) probably included: blocking interface (I prefer having it in the lwt monad), no early forking + pool, no access to pool in workers(?)
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<siaW> how do i get my ocaIDE working in eclipse
<siaW> i think i installed it but i can't get my codes to compilie :(
<Kakadu> is it your SO question?
<siaW> SO?
<siaW> what does SO mean?
<Kakadu> StackOverflow
<siaW> yes it is
<siaW> i posted it here
<Kakadu> Well, eclipse is not very popular in OCaml world....
<siaW> so what's the best Ocam IDE i can use?
<siaW> which one would you recommend?
<Kakadu> are you OK with emacs?
<siaW> i don't know about it
<siaW> never used it
<Kakadu> vim?
<siaW> i heard about vim too, never used it
<Kakadu> there is plugin for emacs and vim called `merlin`
<siaW> can you please give me the link to download vim?
<siaW> or emacs
<siaW> i'm a noob so im not sure which google result to pick
<Kakadu> You can get merlin using OCaml PAckage Manager: http://opam.ocamlpro.com/
<whitequark> hmm, merlin
<whitequark> perhaps I should port merlin to sublimetext as well
<whitequark> my ocp-index plugin is too slow
<Kakadu> siaW: AFAIK emacs is installable via brew, but I'm not mac user
<siaW> i don't want to work in the terminal
<siaW> i want and IDE, something like eclipse to use
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* Kakadu shouts: Mac users, come here!
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<AltGr> whitequark, what libs are you using ?
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<AltGr> ocp-index should be quite fast as long as it doesn't need to load huge interfaces (eg 'open Core.Std' is slow atm)
<whitequark> AltGr: it's because it's reran at every keypress or so
<AltGr> I see. Re-running only on dots should be enough, but I think the issue is the same with emacs auto-complete
<whitequark> AltGr: sublime's interface is not exactly easy to use
<whitequark> the delays aren't huge, less than 100ms, but it's incredibly annoying so I stopped using it myself
<AltGr> It can get annoying quickly yes. That's the price we pay for the as-simple-as-possible interface
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<AltGr> running as daemon + querying the daemon should be easy enough though, just need to find the time to write it
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<rks`> whitequark: if you plan to bind merlin at some point, open an issue on the tracker / a pull request : we'd be interested in how it goes, and we could answer your questions if you have some
<whitequark> rks`: sure. I've a quick question: do I understand it correctly that merlin runs as a daemon and I issue requests to it?
<whitequark> AltGr: btw, one very annoying thing is the auto-wrapping of text
<whitequark> I have to unwrap it manually and it often fails
<rks`> whitequark: yes, that's it :)
<AltGr> whitequark, there is a --sexp option that makes parsing easier (from emacs at least :P); other outputs would be straight-forward to implement
<whitequark> AltGr: not for sublime (python)
<whitequark> I've considered it but that was too much work
<AltGr> Adding JSON should be a matter of minutes if that solves the pb :)
<whitequark> unfortunately it'll still be too slow
<whitequark> I'll think about it
<AltGr> sure, that's another issue
<AltGr> but if it can help for binding in different contexts too
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<gasche> I don't think it makes sense to try to support autocompletion through ocp-index, from a design point of view
<gasche> by design, the tool is suitable for analysis of (possibly partially) compiled sources
<gasche> it should work well for exploring, from your editor, an existing project that you've just compiled (with -bin-annot)
<gasche> jump-to-definition, possibly list-of-use-sites, type feedback, etc.
<gasche> none of these require ocp-index's logic to run on every keystroke, just specific commands
<AltGr> gasche, exactly ; that's actually how I use autocompletion (only on-demand, as a means to access a chunk of API/doc)
<siaW> please?
<gasche> sorry siaW, I have zero experience of Eclipse
<siaW> so any OcamlIDE you'd recommend for me? i'm a noom
<siaW> noob*
<gasche> most people use either Emacs or Vim, but you can perfectly use OCaml with simple text editors (eg. Gedit/Kate)
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<gasche> you may also want to try ocaml-editor or ocaml-top
<adrien_oww> well, emacs and eclipse are fairly similar; for their load-time at least ;p
<siaW> so i can try vim instead?
<gasche> ( http://www.typerex.org/ocaml-top.html , never tried )
<gasche> siaW: if you have some familiarity with either Emacs or Vim, go for it
<siaW> im new to them
<gasche> then I would suggest using something simpler, and type compilation commands in the terminal
<gasche> Kate, Gedit, Notepad++, Textmate, Sublimetext, you name it, all text editors should have syntax highlighting
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* Kakadu thinks again about integrating à la merlin into QtCreator
<def-lkb> Kakadu: so it's possible to extend QtCreator ?
<Kakadu> more or less
<siaW> and i can run ocaml in sublime text? @gasche
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<gasche> siaW: ask whitequark, that's what he uses
<siaW> @whitequark how do i run ocaml in sublime text?
<whitequark> siaW: run ocaml? as in just run ocaml code?
<whitequark> or you mean run ocp-index plugin?
<siaW> yes
<whitequark> ok
<whitequark> try writing a Makefile
<whitequark> then use the Makefile build system
<siaW> how do i do that?
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<whitequark> Tools → Build System → Make
<whitequark> Ctrl+B
<siaW> done
<siaW> but saw nothing
<def-lkb> Kakadu, gasche: ok, another potential binding for Merlin :)
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<whitequark> siaW: OS X or Linux?
<siaW> os x
<whitequark> probably a different binding, Tools → Build. it also would display the keybinding.
<siaW> now i got this
<siaW> Agreeing to the Xcode/iOS license requires admin privileges, please re-run as root via sudo.
<siaW> [Finished in 0.2s with exit code 69]
<siaW> what does that mean?
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<osa1> I'm looking for OCaml/Caml Light specification, any ideas where to find?
<whitequark> siaW: no idea, never used xcode
<siaW> ok thanks whitequark
<adrien_oww> I'm not sure there's such a spec
<adrien_oww> (and I think gasche knows)
<siaW> the process to actually START learning is even more difficult than the learning itself :(
<osa1> adrien_oww: ok, what would be a good resource to port Caml Light to a new architecture?
<adrien_oww> port caml light? I'd rather ask why because the code hasn't been touched for a decade or more
<adrien_oww> (and which arch?)
<gasche> osa1: the "specification" of OCaml is the OCaml Reference Manual, minus the extension parts
<gasche> (but in practice people consider the extensions to be part of the language)
<johnelse> apple seem to have wrapped quiet a few CLI apps with creepy license-requiring ones :(
<osa1> adrien_oww: JVM. this is basically a learning exercise. I choose Caml Light because I want to move to OCaml if I can manage to finish it and it should give me a good start(ie. I won't restart from scratch)
<gasche> what are you planning to do, osa1?
<gasche> implement a subset of Caml?
<gasche> adrien_oww: there was a revival of a fork of caml-light a couple of years ago, by someone that found it easier to hack on than OCaml (at the type-checker level)
<siaW> thanks @johnelse
<siaW> now i get this
<siaW> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop.
<siaW> [Finished in 0.7s with exit code 2]
<gasche> "llama light", appears to be dead now
<siaW> in sublime text
<siaW> i have this list program
<siaW> let add x y = x + y;;
<siaW> add 4 5;;
<gasche> siaW: do you have some experience with using a compiler (of any language) from the command-line or a Makefile before?
<siaW> how do i get sublmiste text to show me the result?
<osa1> gasche: I'm planning to compile smallest useful subset of OCaml to JVM.
<gasche> do you know a programming language already?
<siaW> gasche: i'm a complete noob!
<siaW> i know java
<gasche> ok
<gasche> are you comfortable with a terminal?
<siaW> yes
<gasche> then
<adrien_oww> osa1: sounds like a fairly big project; are you aware of ocamljava?
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<osa1> adrien_oww: I said "smallest useful subset" which means something like Caml Light, do you think this is also fairly big?
<osa1> I didn't know ocamljava
<gasche> siaW: you may want to try http://try.ocamlpro.com/ as a very-first step
<gasche> osa1: do you know about compilers already?
<gasche> (otherwise you should have a look at the MinCaml project for example)
<osa1> gasche: yeah
<siaW> gasche: i finished that arleady
<adrien_oww> caml light isn't that small despite its name
<osa1> hmm
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<gasche> I think porting the MinCaml subset to the JVM would be a reasonable learning project
<gasche> (that won't be useful to anyone else given that ocaml-java exists, except as a pedagogical resource)
<gasche> if you saved your code in foo.ml
<gasche> then "ocamlc foo.ml -o blah" from a terminal will compile your file to an executable "blah" (to run with "./blah")
<gasche> or, more likely, give you a type error
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<adrien_oww> :D
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<siaW> b
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<siaW> this is wha ti'm trying to do
<siaW> can sublime text directly run that?
<siaW> to show me 9??
<gasche> the program that you have written does no input/output
<gasche> whitequark: does SublimeText interact with the ocaml toplevel?
<whitequark> gasche: I don't think it can interact with any REPL.
<siaW> see my terminal
<gasche> ah :D
<siaW> it's the same program
<gasche> yep
<gasche> siaW: did you install opam (an OCaml package manager) or just OCaml?
<siaW> just ocaml
<gasche> ah
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<whitequark> hm, sublimerepl seems to have improved a lot since I last looked at ti
<whitequark> I'll submit a PR to add ocamltop
<gasche> you mean "ocaml" (the toplevel), right?
<whitequark> yes
<gasche> siaW: for now, your best option is probably to copy/paste code into the terminal toplevel (what you get by launching "ocaml" in the terminal)
<gasche> or you can try to use another editor (eg. http://www.typerex.org/ocaml-top.html ) that supports sending output to the toplevel automatically
<gasche> (Emacs does that as well, of course, but it's a different world to learn)
<gasche> I won't be able to help much more given that I don't know about MacOS or Sublimetext
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<siaW> to get https://github.com/OCamlPro/ocaml-top/releases i first need to install opam through the terminal?
<siaW> right @gasche
<siaW> ?
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<whitequark> gasche: http://i.imgur.com/vucElNc.png :D
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<AltGr> siaW, if you are on Ubuntu raring there is an experimental binary package
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<siaW> i'm on Mac OS X
<AltGr> hmm, then there's nothing binary at the moment I'm afraid, OPAM is the easiest way to get there
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<siaW> what is opam? how do i install it
<siaW> i tried
<siaW> brew install opam
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<siaW> it tells macports and fink are installed
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<siaW> and i don't know what to do now :(
<siaW> Warning: Could not link objective-caml. Unlinking...
<siaW> Error: Permission denied - /usr/local/lib/ocaml/vmthreads
<siaW> that's wha ti get after running brew install opam
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<whitequark> you can use that repo, it has ocaml repl support
<companion_cube> gasche: generating random typed terms is hard :/
<siaW> whitequark: use it? how?
<siaW> whitequark: what shoul do exactly with it
<siaW> ?
<siaW> i'm sorry but i'm a super noom :(
<siaW> noob
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<whitequark> siaW: do you have packagecontrol installed?
<whitequark> from here: https://sublime.wbond.net/
<siaW> i don't know what that is
<siaW> no
<whitequark> a package manager for sublime text, to ease installation of plugins
<whitequark> ok, install it
<siaW> ok doing it now
<whitequark> wow, it got merged already. it's easier then. Shift+Cmd+P pcinst Enter, then write SublimeREPL, Enter.
<siaW> done @whitequark
<whitequark> then Shift+Cmd+P repl ocaml Enter
<whitequark> that should do the trick
<siaW> i should type "repl ocaml"?
<siaW> and press Enter?
<siaW> nothing happens
<siaW> i did it
<whitequark> in the command palette
<whitequark> try Tools → SublimeREPL → OCaml → OCaml toplevel
<siaW> in tools
<siaW> there's no
<siaW> sublimeREPL
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<siaW> :(
<siaW> so i can't get in IDE working?
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<whitequark> siaW: try restarting sublime text
<siaW> whitequark: i did that 3 times already
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<whitequark> siaW: so no sublimerepl? ok let's try another way
<siaW> nope
<siaW> nothing
<whitequark> try installing it again
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<siaW> sublime text?
<whitequark> sublimerepl
<siaW> but i don't know how to install sublimerepl
<siaW> :/
<whitequark> "Shift+Cmd+P pcinst Enter, then write SublimeREPL, Enter"
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<siaW> some file came up
<siaW> preferences.sublime-settings
<siaW> with some text
<siaW> i can write SublimeREPL anyhere i like right?
<siaW> look
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<whitequark> no
<whitequark> did you actually install PackageControl?
<siaW> yes
<whitequark> Preferences → Package Control
<siaW> done that 2 already
<whitequark> then select the item which says "Install"
<whitequark> and type SublimeREPL there, and hit Enter
<siaW> Preferences → Package Control
<siaW> i don't have that
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<siaW> this is soooo confusing!
<siaW> Browse up a folder and then into the Installed Packages/ folder
<siaW> but i have NO "installed Packages" folder
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<whitequark> then you didn't install packagecontrol
<siaW> these are the instructions
<siaW> Click the Preferences > Browse Packages… menu
<siaW> Browse up a folder and then into the Installed Packages/ folder
<siaW> Download Package Control.sublime-package and copy it into the Installed Packages/ directory
<siaW> Restart Sublime Text
<siaW> but i don't see any "Installed Packages" folder
<whitequark> create it maybe
<siaW> i did
<siaW> still not working
<whitequark> ok, no idea then
<siaW> thanks mate
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<pippijn> gasche: can you give me the link to your sprint thing?
<pippijn> gasche: I think CBOR would be a good one to add
<pippijn> gasche: and easy to implement (prototypically in a few hours)
<pippijn> gasche: leaving out bignums, the encoder/decoder are trivial, but in a weekend, I think all of CBOR can be implemented
<pippijn> http://cvs.schmorp.de/CBOR-XS/XS.xs <- C implementation (for perl)
<pippijn> ah yes
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<j0sh> is it possible to have literals as part of the type definition?
<j0sh> eg, to constrain the values that the type can take, eg type t = "a" | "b"
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<Drup> j0sh: no
<wmeyer> yo
<wmeyer> j0sh: you can have polymorphic variants though
<wmeyer> let's say: type t = [`Trousers | `Jacket | `Shoes]
<wmeyer> which actually is similar to what you want
<wmeyer> or you can do GADT types: type a;; type b;; type 'a t = A : a t | B : b t;; then you also can disambiguite between these two cases on a type level
<wmeyer> (GADTS are cool new addition, and I would suggest being a little bit more patient and get them to know)
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<wmeyer> I have to say, I also look forward the GADTS to become an integral part of every more advanced project
<j0sh> wmeyer: yeah, GADTs are a bit over my head at the moment
<j0sh> was just hoping that the compiler could eliminate some of the boilerplate when pattern-matching literals corresponding to a type, oh well
<wmeyer> have a rest, on another call I will definitely answer your question :) (however I am far from fluent with GADTs)
<wmeyer> they are complex in the begining. At the same time they are much simplier than other parts of the type system.
<def-lkb> Or just define type t = A | B val to_string : t -> string val of_string : string -> t option :)
<wmeyer> def-lkb: yeah.
<wmeyer> :)
<def-lkb> Much less involved type-system wise, but that should do the job
<wmeyer> makes sense, if you don't plan to extend it
<wmeyer> and I'd indeed prefer def-lkb solution
<wmeyer> because there are not many operatoins that can be done on a type level in OCaml
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<j0sh> yeah, would be nice to use the type system to constrain more of the program
<j0sh> and maybe automate some other things like de/serialization (i've been looking at adt/adtgen for this)
<wmeyer> yes, maybe you can look at deriving-ocsigen library, and sexplib?
<j0sh> deriving-ocsigen has been on my list of things to check out, yes
<wmeyer> these ones use meta programming to get your seralisation code :-)
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<wmeyer> in manys it works, but the parametric types are problematic
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<pippijn> j0sh: atdgen*
<pippijn> I use all of those things :)
<pippijn> atdgen, deriving-ocsigen, and sexplib
<pippijn> though atdgen has limited use for me, sadly
<pippijn> because I don't define the protocol
<j0sh> yeah, i have to play around with them some more... not sure what the tradeoffs yet or what would be more appropriate for my use-case
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<j0sh> trying to build a system that acts as an erlang node, so it needs to speak the erlang eterm format and so forth
<pippijn> nice
<j0sh> wrote all the handshake code manually, it works well enough but feels error-prone, would be nice to generate that from the type definitions
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<pippijn> yes
<pippijn> if all else fails, make your own generator
<pippijn> I did that for the spring lobby client
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<pippijn> no
<pippijn> that one is in C++
<pippijn> I made a spring lobby client library in ocaml
<j0sh> ah i see, spring is an opensource RTS, nice
<def-lkb> nice to know pippijn, though I never managed to have a fully working spring setup
<pippijn> rts engine
<pippijn> zero-k is a game
<pippijn> def-lkb: spring rts?
<def-lkb> pippijn: yes
<pippijn> hmm
<def-lkb> when I checked, most games came with a lot a different version, disparate media… most combinations I tried failed, except one which was quite limited
<pippijn> hm
<pippijn> try zero-k
<def-lkb> (2 years ago if I recall)
<pippijn> ok, it may be better
<def-lkb> ok i will give it a look, thanks! :)
<pippijn> try weblobby (with firefox, if you have a java plugin)
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<pippijn> def-lkb: if you get it to work and want to play, I'd gladly join :)
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<adrien> gasche: hey, can you remove "0002-build-always-build-lex-and-tools-with-the-compiler-f.patch" and " 0001-build-always-build-lex-tools-and-ocamlc-with-the-com-fixed.patch" from bug 5737? (some people want a latency of 16ms; I have a latency which is close to 16 days at times =/ )
<whitequark> I don't think humans can actually reply to issues within 16ms
<adrien> that's 60fps; what I've been trying to get at work
<adrien> but the standard deviation between frames on the machine I'm using is close to 20ms
<adrien> so it feels bad
<whitequark> wow. what do you need that for?
<adrien> smoothness
<whitequark> well, sure, I mean smoothness of what? :)
<adrien> GUIs :P
<whitequark> that... sounds like a huge overkill
<adrien> but it's quite awful because profilers will help you with throughput
<adrien> over the whole life of your proces
<adrien> s
<whitequark> I honestly can't notice anything under 50ms
<adrien> 16ms or 50ms is the same issue
<adrien> if you have a disk access between two frames, you'll start having issues
<whitequark> though on touch 16ms may be an issue
<adrien> yeah, touch
<adrien> but 30fps will still feel smooth
<adrien> if ther are no hiccups
<whitequark> yeah, android had quite a job to fix that
<adrien> you don't care much if it's 50ms or 15ms
<whitequark> "project butter"
<adrien> as long as it's not 5ms then 40ms then 12ms then 42ms then 1ms then ...
<adrien> and tools are inapproriate for that
<adrien> but if I could get that FRP stuff better on track...
<def-lkb> pippijn: cool, later this week probably :)
<pippijn> :)
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