flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.01.0 http://bit.ly/1851A3R | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<BitPuffin> Reference to undefined global `Cohttp_lwt_unix'
<BitPuffin> I can't seem to open that module
<BitPuffin> ocamlfind ocamlc -o portfoblog -package lwt -package cohttp -linkpkg portfoblog.ml
<BitPuffin> that's how i am currently compiling
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<BitPuffin> maybe I need to set some flag
<BitPuffin> somehow
<nicoo> BitPuffin: Did you install cohttp via OPAM ? What does 'which ocamlfind' gives you ?
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<BitPuffin> yes
<BitPuffin> /usr/bin/ocamlfind
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<BitPuffin> nicoo ^
<nicoo> BitPuffin: Ah. The system-wide install of ocamlfind probably doesn't know about OPAM packages
<nicoo> The quick and dirty way would be to export your list of packages, switch to an OPAM-managed environment and reimport it. But you wait while OPAM compiles a brand-new OCaml install :(
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<BitPuffin> nicoo: but ocamlfind is also using systemwide
<BitPuffin> nicoo: and it does find lwt and cohttp
<BitPuffin> nicoo: just that cohttp can have different implementations or something (lwt, async and something else)
<BitPuffin> and I wanna use lwt (for some reason)
<BitPuffin> but I can't seem to access that module
<Drup> BitPuffin: did you do the whole opam switch invocation ?
<Drup> putting stuff in your path, and so on
<BitPuffin> Drup: probably not because I don't know what you mean haha
<BitPuffin> Drup: ah
<BitPuffin> yes
<BitPuffin> It told me to do something
<Drup> eval `opam config env`
<BitPuffin> and it wrote stuff to my .zshrc and .ocamlinit
<BitPuffin> Drup: yeah I believe i ran that, and I get the same result afterwards
<Drup> are you running your compilation in vim or in a real shell ?
<BitPuffin> real shell
<Drup> huum
<BitPuffin> actually the lwt stuff builds by default
<BitPuffin> according to the obuild file
<BitPuffin> I don't get it
<BitPuffin> I should have it
<BitPuffin> It's even in my ~/.opam/system/lib/cohttp
<BitPuffin> see?
<BitPuffin> This is my code https://gist.github.com/BitPuffin/7076980
<BitPuffin> compiled like this: ocamlfind ocamlc -o portfoblog -package lwt -package cohttp -linkpkg portfoblog.ml
<BitPuffin> actually -package lwt is not even necessary
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<BitPuffin> ah
<BitPuffin> cohttp.lwt
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<BitPuffin> alright it built!
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<BitPuffin> but it doesn't work xD
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<Drup> BitPuffin: in the code you pasted, you define a function but don't actually use it
<BitPuffin> Drup: nah I know, I tried using it though, and visiting the url just kept loading forever, and when I terminated the server it immediately went to not found
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<hmmh> Hey does anyone have a link to a non github'd version of Real World Ocaml that I can check out?
<Drup> not yet
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<Drup> you will have to wait a bit for that
<Drup> they promised to put one after the release
<hmmh> Strange setup they've got for previewing the book
<Drup> that's the point, it's not really for previewing, more for debuging
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<hmmh> Ah ok... guess I'll have to wait.
<hmmh> Drup: do you use haskell at all?
<Drup> I do currently
<hmmh> How do you find it compares with OCaml?
<hmmh> Broad question, I realize. But nonetheless...
<Drup> to quote BitPuffin, because I like his way to put it, "uptight"
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<hmmh> haha, I'm finding. Just wondering if all the uptight-ness is worth it in the end
<Drup> I quite dislike the whole purity principle used by haskell and I find ocaml, in general, far more practical.
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<Drup> this hold for both fo the language and the part I have see in the landscape (tooling and libraries)
<Drup> except for typeclass, because this is just too awesome
<Drup> BitPuffin: no, it's a syntax extension used by lwt
<BitPuffin> Drup: but that is erroring
<BitPuffin> well
<BitPuffin> both are
<Drup> it's erroring because you didn't compile with the syntax extension :)
<hmmh> Drup: Yeah. Are you familiar with the lens library?
<Drup> no
<BitPuffin> Drup: obviously :P
<BitPuffin> I wonder how I add it with oasis
<Drup> hmmh: I head about it, but didn't look at it
<BitPuffin> can't find the syntax extension anywhere in the oasis file for cohttp Drup
<BitPuffin> aha!
<BitPuffin> well
<BitPuffin> I added lwt.syntax to my build depends, that didn't help
<hmmh> Drup: it's a bit of a monstrosity... there are over 100 operators. And tbh the reception that it received within the haskell community caused me to start questioning whether haskell was or would ever be anything more than an academic language
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<Drup> hmmh: well, cool hacks are cool :D
<hmmh> Drup: haha yeah, I just shudder at the idea of developing a codebase using a lib like that and then having to maintain it later
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<BitPuffin> Drup: https://github.com/avsm/ocaml-cohttp/blob/master/_oasis#L149 according to this you shouldn't need to compile with language extension?
<Drup> BitPuffin: the piece of code you linked need the lwt syntax extension to compile, It doesn't mean the library need it
<BitPuffin> Drup: No but that part that the last link links to is the part of their oasis file that compiles the piece of code I linked to
<BitPuffin> (unless I understand oasis wrong)
<BitPuffin> Drup: so isn't that weird?
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<BitPuffin> https://gist.github.com/BitPuffin/7077515 This is the code and output
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<BitPuffin> anyways, time for me to sleep, won't be able to do any work on this tomorrow, maybe a little bit on tuesday :P
<BitPuffin> see you guys, gonna have to solve this later :P
<BitPuffin> thanks for the help so far, sorry for noobing so much
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<orbitz> ggole: saw that too! looking forward to reading it
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<ggole> The language being compiled is a bit simple, but its still a nice exposition
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<ggole> Heh, the register allocator is tiny and "may take a few minutes"
<ggole> Understandable given the purpose of the code, I guess.
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<orbitz> yeah
<orbitz> educational
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<companion_cube> o/
<adrien_oww> mornin
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<Radditz> ocaml is only version 4 ? I used to use version 4 like 2 years ago
<companion_cube> ocaml doesn't change major revisions often
<adrien_oww> 4 was not 2 years ago
<adrien_oww> was released summer 2012
<Radditz> adrien_oww: maybe it was not yet an official release, our teacher made us install us to show us new stuff, like algebraic data types and whatnot
<Radditz> it was to experiment the stuff he taught us
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<companion_cube> Radditz: you mean, GADT?
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<Radditz> companion_cube: I guess, I forgot most of it anyway
<Radditz> I remember there were types that you could make on the fly, with > annd < symbols about containing them, you had to use caps to define them and ' or something
<companion_cube> that's the part that justifies the major release :)
<companion_cube> Radditz: ah, that's polymorphic variants
<Radditz> our teacher taught us aspects of functional programming, and used ocaml 4 to show us how it works
<Radditz> he did a lot of stuff during the course
<Radditz> what impressed me the most, something that I didn't realize before was the implementation of red-black tree insertion using sum types
<Radditz> you just match and describe the structure of the tree, no pointers, no nothing, so intuitive
<adrien_oww> polymorphic variants have existed since long before version 4 though
<Radditz> I feel somtimes like iterative programming corrupts me
<adrien_oww> it does
<Radditz> well I don't remember what parts from 4.0 he showed us
<Radditz> but sum types allow you to basically write the code as a mathematical definition, not think about how to implement it in objects, or pointers, or whatnot
<ia0> out of curiosity, is it possible to know your teacher?
<Radditz> I hope he doesn't mind, I could give you the link to his course
<Radditz> http://www.dicosmo.org/CourseNotes/pfav/ Roberto Dicosmo for the course I was talking about
<Radditz> it's not in English tho, it's in French
<ia0> ah right, chapter 3 is on polymorphic variants and GADTs
<ia0> (and phantom types and stuff)
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<Radditz> I had this course 2 years ago tho
<Radditz> I actually seen people use phantom types in java
<Radditz> create an object to represent a dummy type
<adrien_oww> well, with Roberto DiCosmo, it's not that surprising that you had this in advance
<adrien_oww> although *G*ADT is surprising for beginners
<adrien_oww> ADT, not
<adrien_oww> but GADT definitely is
<gour> there are no 'OCamlPro Highlights' for Sept. any clue?
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<AltGr> hum :)
<Radditz> adrien_oww: it was not for beginners, it was advanced functional programming
<Radditz> adrien_oww: you know him?
<AltGr> gour, with the ICFP and some vacation, and the release of OPAM 1.1, we've been very busy ; but expect something in the next days
<gour> AltGr: ok, any news about wxocaml progress?
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<adrien_oww> Radditz: I don't know him but I know he's an active ocamler
<AltGr> I heard about some discussions on QT
<Radditz> how do you become an active ocamler?
<AltGr> but I don't want to spoil anything ;)
<gour> AltGr: well, having either wx/qt bindings would be good-enough reason to stay with ocaml. otherwise i'm considering ada & rust as well
<gour> ..which have some plans/projects in regard to wx bindings
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<gour> otoh, rust's syntax is a bit noisy for my taste, while ada is quite verbose, so ocaml ranks high in regards
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<gour> AltGr: opam's README.md at @github for QuickInstall is dead (404) link
<AltGr> gour, yup, just fixed but it's not pushed yet :)
<AltGr> thanks
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<gour> np
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<gour> AltGr: and don't keep me too long on fire in reagrd to wx/qt bindings ;)
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<companion_cube> gour: rust isn't stable yet, that might be also a deterrent
<companion_cube> thomasga: when do you plan to merge opam-1.1-only pull requests? ;)
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<thomasga> soonish
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<companion_cube> :)
<yezariaely> anyone else saw these strange confirm messages on the mailing list?
<companion_cube> yep
<companion_cube> looks like a loop in the mailing list...
<yezariaely> ok. good, so it was not my server's fault.
<companion_cube> thomasga: I can't wait for packages to distribute man pages!!
<yezariaely> thomasga: I agree.
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<yezariaely> man pages would be nice...
<companion_cube> with 1.1 you can do it, but it's not compatible with opam 1.0
<companion_cube> there's a "man" field in the .install file for installing man pages
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<yezariaely> ah nice!
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<Drup> companion_cube: is there an html doc directory too ?
<companion_cube> but opam's gatekeepers won't merge my pull request :]
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<companion_cube> Drup: yes, ~/.opam/<compiler>/doc/package/
<companion_cube> and the .install file field is doc:
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<Drup> companion_cube: is there a variable for ./configure too ?
<companion_cube> I think it "doc"
<companion_cube> ["./configure" "--bindir" bin "--docdir" doc]
<companion_cube> something like this
<Drup> we will really need something to list instaled file for a given package.
<companion_cube> that's exactly what .install is for
<companion_cube> the strange thing is that it's supposed to be generated by the package itself
<companion_cube> now it'd be great if oasis could generate those
<companion_cube> (and also manpages)
<Drup> companion_cube: no, I mean something the user can query.
<companion_cube> hmmm...
<Drup> like pacman -Ql :)
<companion_cube> I see
<companion_cube> interesting ^^
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<gour> companion_cube: that's true, but rust is in rapid development and if it will provide desired gui bindings...
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<Drup> gour: you are a bit mono-maniac :]
<companion_cube> gour: I'm not sure it will do so before OCaml
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<adrien_oww> there have been *many* qt bindings for ocaml
<adrien_oww> they looked fine
<adrien_oww> but they didn't tackle the real issues
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<gour> Drup: mono?
<adrien_oww> had nice starts but soon got blocked
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<adrien_oww> which is why I think the approach of avoiding the difficult bits in lablqt is the right one
<gour> companion_cube: it depends on priority within community...it's interesting someone is e.g. working on wxrust prior to language's 1.0 release
<gour> otoh, if ocamlpro will stand behind some bindings, then it's another story
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<gour> adrien_oww: why many and not one with joined forces?
<pippijn> adrien_oww: what are the real issues?
<adrien_oww> gour: not at the same time; years apart
<adrien_oww> pippijn: one being that C++ inheritance is awful to bind in a clean way
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<pippijn> my bindings tackled that issue
<pippijn> what else?
<pippijn> right now I remember one big issue: method name overloading
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<pippijn> that was solved with name mangling
<pippijn> actually it's not a big issue
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<adrien_oww> that for one
<adrien_oww> but that leads to fat bindings, no?
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<pippijn> fat?
<pippijn> yes
<pippijn> if I understand you correctly
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<adrien_oww> how many MBs for your .cmxa?
<pippijn> hm
<pippijn> 125K
<pippijn> but the cmxa is not interesting
<pippijn> .a is 8MB
<pippijn> 8.5MB
<adrien_oww> ah, right
<pippijn> 1.7MB
<pippijn> 1.0MB for the bytecode version
<gour> well, e.g. wxrust is using wxhaskell's wxC in order to not re-invent the wheel, and that's approach what was recommended by main wx dev (vz). however, don't know how much is qt different in regard
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<adrien_oww> one of the things I find the most annoying is to setup a timer with Qt
<adrien_oww> you need to implement a virtual protected method in your code
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<pippijn> hm
<pippijn> I don't remember this
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<pippijn> doesn't it work with signals?
<adrien_oww> not timer
<adrien_oww> well
<adrien_oww> maybe
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<adrien_oww> I know I had to implement a virtual protected method
<adrien_oww> that was around 2 years ago
<pippijn> ok
<adrien_oww> but in any case, even if you don't need to do it that way currently, it shows one issue
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<gour> Drup: if ocaml gets some new gui bindings, i do not mind carrying any label ;)
<Drup> lablgour ?
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<gour> Drup: no, but xyz-maniac :-D
<Drup> monomaniac doesn't means a maniac of mono :p
<gour> i know ;)
<gour> ..you jsut put everything under one issue
<gour> but it could easily be, at least duo: language+bindings
<gour> opam upgrade did nice jobs here...cool
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* gour notices that OCaml for Scientists book is only 85 GBP
<adrien_oww> <3
<pippijn> gour: a steal!
<gour> RWO is bargain in comparison
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<nicoo> Would someone know how to remove all packages from the system switch ? (I don't know whether it is safe to remove)
<pippijn> java8 implements lambdas with invokedynamic
<pippijn> creating the closure is invokedynamic
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<smondet> nicoo: I haven't tried but maybe removing the ocamlfind package would do the trick
<smondet> almost everything else depends on it
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<nicoo> smondet: Yeah. I was wondering if there was a nice way to do so.
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<smondet> `opam switch export` gives you a list of installed packages so with some awk/sed magic...
<nicoo> smondet: Yeah, I did awk '{print $1}' /tmp/universe | xargs opam remove --switch=system --yes
<nicoo> (already had the export because I re-imported it in my new switch)
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<nicoo> companion_cube: Remind me to write hate-mail to OPAM and Coq devs ;) (Yeah, it's not written “radio réveil” on your head)
<companion_cube> hmmmm?
<ggole> pippijn: really? What's the rationale there?
<adrien_oww> nicoo: for a small fee, I'll happily write that on his forehead
<adrien_oww> small fee being
<adrien_oww> COOKIES!
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<nicoo> adrien_oww: Would you accept a future containing a cookie ?
<adrien_oww> I might
<adrien_oww> home!
<nicoo> Ok. I might go to Paris in February
<nicoo> See ya, adrien !
<adrien_oww> fosdem!
<nicoo> adrien_oww: Where is it this year ?
<nicoo> Ah, Bruxelle.
<pippijn> adrien_oww: do you live in paris?
<pippijn> ggole: I don't know, I just looked at the byte code
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<mrvn> .oO(from future import racetrack.results)
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<adrien> pippijn: I do
<pippijn> nice
<adrien> nicoo: always bruxelles, always the first weekend of february
<pippijn> I hope to be living there, soon
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<nicoo> adrien: Yeah, was confusing with RMLL :)
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<adrien> pippijn: let me know when you get your answer ;-)
<adrien> nicoo: well, I'm not attending them as I still haven't understood how they run
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<pippijn> java's type-unsafety is really annoying
<pippijn> .equals gets an Object, Map<K, V>.get also gets an Object (rather than a K)
<nicoo> pippijn: Srsly ? What do they even have generics for, then ?
<pippijn> changing the type of an enumeration from "class with many constant strings" to "actual enum" fails at runtime
<pippijn> nicoo: so they can say "we're cool, too"
<pippijn> other than that, they do help in many cases
<pippijn> but it's incomplete
<pippijn> Map<K, V>.put(K, V) is good
<pippijn> but .get(Object) doesn't make much sense (it might, but not enough)
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<pippijn> so recently I've started using my own static functions MapStatic.get<K, V>(Map<K,V>, K)
<pippijn> and this has already saved a lot of time
<nicoo> pippijn: It sounds like they stoped alfways through converting the API to generics.
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<pippijn> yes, it feels like that
<nicoo> halfways*
<pippijn> I'd also like java to have tuples
<pippijn> right now I'm writing a function that returns (name, desc)
<nicoo> pippijn: IIRC, there is an Apache package with generic pairs ^^
<pippijn> I need this type in exactly one place
<pippijn> oh well
<nicoo> Yeah, depending on a lib for tuples is silly.
<tane> not if you follow a strict OO paradigm
<tane> thinking about tuple values, it should be possible to validate the content from "within" meaning a method
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<gour> reading ocp-build manual and from the comparison with other build tools (ocamlbuild, make, omake, oasis) it looks as optimal system. now i wonder what are some of jenga's main selling points?
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