flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | OCaml 4.01.0 http://bit.ly/1851A3R | http://www.ocaml.org | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<watermind> the elpa tuareg emacs package is a bit outdated
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<flux> dsheets_, I think some libraries reveal the fact. or you can write your C binding.. or you can just use magic :)
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<thermoplyae> hi, chat. what's the rationale behind the design decision to not curry constructors in ocaml?
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<flux> as far I understand it: keeping the code base simpler
<flux> I think you can find (multiple) discussions about this matter from the caml mailing lists :)
<flux> (usually they are short discussions)
<thermoplyae> fair enough
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<companion_cube> hello
<Radditz> hello
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<adrien_oww> when I first joined this channel, there were less than 80 peole peak
<adrien_oww> probably around 70 on average
<adrien_oww> or even less
<adrien_oww> fast-forward 5 years, more than twice as many people
<Radditz> Ocaml is still not widely used, mostly in academic circles
<Kakadu> adrien_oww: do u remember your 1st day in public ocaml chatroom?
* Kakadu do
<Kakadu> does*
<adrien_oww> too long ago
<darkf> Radditz: I don't think OCaml will ever be widely-used, but that does not diminish its merits.
<darkf> probably what kills it is lack of tooling and a very comprehensive standard library bundled with it (and we have Core and Batteries, yay)
<adrien_oww> I'd say, give it 2 or 3 more years
<Radditz> It does have lots of libraries tho, I forgot the name but there is this program that allows you to easily install libraries and ocaml version on linux/unix not depending on the local repositories
<Radditz> it does make and stuff, and allows to easily switch ocaml versions and library versions, I forgot the name
<Radditz> when was the first day?
<dsheets_> Radditz, october 4, you're late
<Radditz> dsheets_: that's the anniversary ? but when was the channe founded?
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<Radditz> channel*
<dsheets_> Radditz, before the protestant reformation
<darkf> apparently OPAM exists
<darkf> now I just wish there were more libraries ;)
<Radditz> oh Ocaml
<Radditz> dsheets_: when was that?
<dsheets_> Radditz, started in 1517
<darkf> then I also wish it would borrow operator slicing from Haskell :/
<Radditz> I was talking about Opam then I guess
<Radditz> darkf: what is operator slicing?
<Radditz> Ocaml is noticeably better than haskell fool
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<companion_cube> darkf: what do you mean by "operator slicing" ?
<darkf> it's called something like that, you can do (+ 1) or (`somefn` foo) or whatever. in OCaml you can do ((+) 1) or whatever but not (1 +)
<companion_cube> oh, this.
<argp> i'm using caml_copy_string to copy a c char buffer to a field of a record i allocated with caml_alloc_tuple and i'm getting a segfault
<flux> there was this language extension pa_hole.ml with syntax like (maybe) \(_ +)
<argp> what i'm a missing?
<darkf> flux: that's interesting
<darkf> flux: that's probably more Scala-like, where you can do (1 + _) to mean (fun x -> 1 + x)
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<flux> bluestorm has apprently left the ocaml scene, but it's probably this: https://github.com/bobzhang/ocaml-book/blob/master/camlp4/examples/pa_holes.ml
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<adrien_oww> flux: s/bluestorm/gasche/
<adrien_oww> he simply changed nick
<flux> oh :-)
<companion_cube> :)
<dsheets_> whoa... even more props to gasche
<flux> no more bluestorm.info, though
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<Kakadu> Guys, do you have information how line `archive(syntax, preprocessor) ` affects build process?
<Kakadu> (line of META file)
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<jpdeplaix> Kakadu: I think it should be written somewhere in the ocamlfind doc
<jpdeplaix> s/should/may/
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<companion_cube> gasche: btw, when do you release your random generator? :p
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<dsheets_> for anyone who was here last night, the opam package fd-send-recv by djs55 does exactly what i want
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<companion_cube> how can I specify I want to install documentation in opam?
<companion_cube> even if just a readme?
<jpdeplaix> companion_cube: in the .install file I think
<companion_cube> oh
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<companion_cube> <looks like I have a deprecated version of opam remote
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<Radditz> hello
<Radditz> does ocaml support the canvas tag?
<Drup> that's a bit general
<Radditz> the same one as in html5
<Drup> I know, but ocaml on itself doesn't support webby stuff, so you're talking about a precise library, aren't you ?
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<Radditz> Drup I am talking about ocaml itself, I have ocaml files that I run through xslt and convert them to XML ( technically XHTML )
<Drup> ocaml through xslt ?!
<Radditz> yes
<Drup> isn't xlst an xml transformation language ? how can you use it on ocaml ?
<Radditz> ocaml is an ml language, like xml
<Radditz> it's only reasonable it would work
<Drup> ocaml is not a markup language, what are you talking about ?
<Radditz> Drup it can be used as a markup language, xml can be used for more than markup language as well
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<Drup> can you link me a specific walkthroug to transform an ocaml source into xml with xslt ?
<Kakadu> Drup: look logs
<Radditz> Drup: you just run teh command
<Kakadu> we have long discussion about C-something Application Markup Language
<Kakadu> Drup: with many trolling
<companion_cube> thomasga: is there a way to have wildcards in .install files?
<companion_cube> that would be nice for installing documentation
<companion_cube> or man pages
<Drup> Kakadu: I don't see anything in the logs
<Radditz> Drup I don't have time to google it for you, but it's not difficult to do it, trust me\
<thomasga> companion_cube: it was supported at one point, but not anymore. The idea is to make the build system generate the .install file (which should know about man & doc pages)
<companion_cube> :(
<companion_cube> but that means that the build system should contain the opam package ?!
<thomasga> no, that the build system should be able to generate a .install file :p
<companion_cube> or that I should generate the .install and then copy it into opam-repository?
<thomasga> no need to copy it
<thomasga> if the build system generate it properly, OPAM will just pick it up
<companion_cube> oh, if there is a foobar.install file in the package, it will be read?
<companion_cube> I thought it needed to be in the opam description of the package
<Radditz> companion_cube: do you play portal?
<companion_cube> I used to
<Radditz> not anymore? portal 2?
<Radditz> there are many great community maps in portal 2, I recommend to play them
<companion_cube> a bit, but I don't have powerful enough a computer nowadays
<Radditz> what happened to your old computer?
<thomasga> the .install files in opam-repository should be removed at one point (when either OPAM supports DESTDIR to install the packages, or when the build system are changed to generate the .install files)
<thomasga> (I'm not sure which statement will be true first :p)
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<companion_cube> it broke
<companion_cube> thomasga: ok, so I will put a foobar.install at the root of my foobar package
<companion_cube> I'm trying to install man pages
<companion_cube> and documentation
<Drup> Radditz: no seriously, link it please.
<Radditz> here you go Drup http://camel.apache.org/xslt.html
<jpdeplaix> thomasga: is that opam will install packages with a sandbox someday ?
<companion_cube> thomasga: now I'm wondering how to generate a .install ^^
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<Drup> Radditz: *camel* ≠ ocaml ... seriously
<Drup> gtfo >_>
<Radditz> Drup why so much adversity ?
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<Drup> I did expect something like that, and it still a useless troll, it doesn't have any point other than making people loose time.
<Radditz> Drup I am sorry, maybe you can teach me to be useful? I am willing to learn
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<Kakadu> Any Camlp5 hackers? http://paste.in.ua/8871/#35
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<watermind> so say I have, module type S = sig type a val f : a -> int end
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<companion_cube> watermind: yes?
<watermind> I could defne a module I : S where a would be int and f would be id
<companion_cube> module I : S with type a = int ?
<watermind> module S:I = struct type a let f = fun x -> x end
<watermind> type a = int
<watermind> ops
<watermind> so for ints we just have identity
<watermind> and for pairs we could define a functor that takes two modules of sig S
<companion_cube> you need to say type a = int
<companion_cube> in the definition of I
<watermind> yes mistake, wait I'll just put this on paste bin, easier
<watermind> sorry
<companion_cube> you can also take the product, indeed
<companion_cube> assuming you know how to combine the results of A.f and B.f
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<watermind> ok so the method f converts something to int
<watermind> ints the result is just identity
<companion_cube> that looks ok
<watermind> pairs you convert each component and sum them
<watermind> now question is... if I have an arbitrary pair of pairs of pairs....
<watermind> do I have to always construct the apropriate module by chaining all the arguments?
<watermind> is there some way to achieve some sort of inference or close to it
<companion_cube> there is no automatic inference
<companion_cube> you need to build modules yourself, sadly
<companion_cube> but for pairs of pairs of pairs, looks like 3 functor application
<companion_cube> module P1 = Pair(I)(I) module P2 = Pair(P1)(P1) module P3 = Pair(P2)(P2)
<companion_cube> I have to leave, sorry
<watermind> ok thanks
<watermind> I haven't looked into first order modules yet, is it possible to use them to automatize such constructions?
<watermind> i.e. build modules recursively using a functor and a base case...
<watermind> I'm gessing not as this is tending to generic programming a bit too much
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<mrvn> watermind: I guess you can make a GADT containing the Module and instance and then make a list of them.
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<watermind> mrvn: hmm interesting
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<mrvn> watermind: personally I would just use objects there
<watermind> mrvn: right, I haven't read about them yet ...
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<watermind> mrvn: what is it about objects that would make them useful here? (I understand if you tell me it's better to just go read about them first and ask questions later though)
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<watermind> are there situations where it's better to use "with type endpoint =" rather than "with type endpoint :=" ?
<watermind> not seeing any advantage in using the first
<whitequark> maybe if you have "type t = private foo", "with type endpoint = t" would offer different behavior?
<whitequark> I'm not sure though
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<Drup> watermind: you should use = if it works
<Drup> it preserve more type informations, afaik
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<watermind> Drup: the example in https://realworldocaml.org/beta3/en/html/functors.html moves from = to := to obtain a simpler interface
<watermind> Drup: I was left wondering if that's not always the case and therefore my question
<Drup> hum, you still need to give autorisation over your github account, so can't see it
<watermind> whitequark: interesting
<watermind> Drup: :/
<def-lkb> watermind: you obtain a simpler interface, but sometimes you need to apply the resulting module to another functor that may no longer be compatible with this interface
<watermind> def-lkb: I see... kinda
<def-lkb> in this case, you will have to use =
<watermind> def-lkb: I get the idea, but not really seeing what would make it become incompatible
<watermind> def-lkb: how would the loss of a reference to a type a make a difference if a is set to be the same as say... int
<def-lkb> I could try to construct an example.
<def-lkb> The "Fail" module will fail to typecheck.
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<gour> another gtk --> qt project (https://blog.wireshark.org/2013/10/switching-to-qt/) and another reason to have something else besides lablgtk...
<adrien> <joke>I'm not sure wireshark is the best example of both technical choices and implementations
<adrien> damn, 107 minutes early
<adrien> good night
<gour> 'night
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<Kakadu> my camlp5 point about error into file /tmp/ocamlpp50aef0. Any ideas how to keep generated file?
<Kakadu> point*
<Kakadu> points*
<Kakadu> gour: How your python web-stuff is feeling?
<gour> Kakadu: ok. nikola as ssg & web2py
<Kakadu> are you going to try ocsigen? ;-)
<gour> for 'general' web stuff?
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<gour> probaly not due to being overkill
<Drup> what's different between "general" web stuff and "non-general" web stuff ? x)
<gour> Drup: non-general are in my dictionary more suited towards web apps, while 'general' to sites only
<Drup> there is sure a big difference between those two world today :)
<gour> btw, i'm little bit worried that within D there is talk about reviving/launching QtD...even Rust has wxRust, while here is a bit quiet in regards to GUI
<Kakadu> I don't think that it is overkill
<Drup> +¿
* Kakadu starts to think that 'dead question mark' is near '1' button on french keyboards
<ollehar> nooo... pattern matching analyze doesn't get bool guards:
<ollehar> | Bla when true ->
<ollehar> | Bla when false ->
<companion_cube> ollehar: try match foo, test with | Bla, true -> ... | Bla, false -> ...
<gour> Kakadu: for certain purposes, python-powered static site generator is all what i need. for somewhat more complex sites, converting to web2py and adding some interactivity is also ok...i do not want to go too deep into web apps
<gour> but for now, too tired and going to sleep...hectic time these days
<gour> 'night folks
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<ollehar> companion_cube: thx
<companion_cube> I think it's better ;)
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<watermind> def-lkb: sorry, was away for a while... thank you! right, I see what you mean
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