lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<adrien_oww> morning
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<sagotch> Hi everyone.
<sagotch> Is there any official opam-repository "owner" here?
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<Kakadu> sagotch: maybe he is in #opam
<companion_cube> o/
<sagotch> Probably :D
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<rwmjones> ok! think I've solved the aarch64 problem ...
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<adrien> \o/
<rwmjones> or maybe not :-(
<whitequark> rwmjones: what was it?
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<rwmjones> the way xavier is doing relocations appears to have a mistake, but I can't quite understand what it is yet
<rwmjones> it's complex because on aarch64 you have to split the address into two parts and load it in two separate instructions
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<Drup> Is someone using/developing frama-c around ?
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<companion_cube> elfring: you're making progress ;)
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<elfring> companion_cube: I am curious if any more software developers would like to analyse the status of a specific hash table after it was filled to some degree.
<companion_cube> there are statistics available for Hashtbl
<companion_cube> see Hashtbl.stats
<companion_cube> but those are only performance-related indications, with no impact whatsoever on the semantics
<elfring> Would it make sense to provide information about the applied hash function in these statistics?
<companion_cube> you can deduce the number of collisions from it
<companion_cube> from statistics.bucket_histogram (for every bucket with n elements, n > 1, there are n-1 collisions)
<elfring> Would you eventually like to retrieve a list for the entries which belong to the value "maximal number of bindings per bucket"?
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<Enjolras> I don't understand why you want to do that. It sounds like heavy premature optimization to me
<companion_cube> elfring: why would you like to do so?
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<companion_cube> don't worry about it unless you really have a degenerate case
<companion_cube> which you currently don't
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<ggole> Bucket lengths indicate *bucket* collisions, not hash function collisions.
<Enjolras> what's the difference for an hashtable with collision list ?
<elfring> I find that documentation around the OCaml hash functions could be improved. Do you need to inspect a hash table in more detail if a "maximal number of bindings" per bucket would not fit to expectations for run time behaviour with a specific application?
<ggole> The difference is that bucket collisions don't necessarily indicate a weakness in the hash function
<companion_cube> ggole: right
<companion_cube> hash collisions are a subset of bucket collisions
<companion_cube> my bad
<companion_cube> elfring: Hashtbl provide good runtime behavior, unless an attacker crafter a very specific input (for a web server), so don't worry!
<ggole> You can provide a seed from a known good RNG to make that difficult, too
<ggole> (As of recent versions.)
<Enjolras> ggole: hmm. you mean that you have to look at the variance of buckets lengths to detect hash weakness ?
<ggole> Better to inspect the value returned by the hash function itself
<ggole> The problem is that in choosing a bucket, bits are discarded
<elfring> I do not worry for "toy programs". But I try to be more careful with internet tools and applications where software correctness will matter more.
<Enjolras> Ah I see. It's a modulo or something like that
<companion_cube> elfring: with randomized tables it will be fine anyway
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<elfring> How will you know that the "randomly" selected hash function fits really to your expectations on good software characteristics?
<nicoo> elfring: You don't. Not anymore than in other programming languages which use non-crypto hashes.
<companion_cube> elfring: how can you tell a cosmic ray isn't going to crash your OS?
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<ggole> Personally, my "expectations on good software characteristics" is that the crudness of my code is likely to exceed that of the stdlib by at least several orders of mag
<ggole> ...more on a bad day
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<nicoo> ggole: Then just trust the standard hash function. It is suitable for use in a hash table
<Drup> (and don't use Str or Stream, or your expectations are going to be crushed)
<Drup> (by several orders of magnitude)
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<ggole> Ah, the beauty of having low standards.
<elfring> I guess that security researchers will fiddle with higher requirements to establish trust and reasonable confidence levels.
<Drup> that's what the Hashtble.make functor is for, just use a crypto hash function if you want
<smondet> elfring: or use a data-structure that really offers certified confidence levels (like Map.t → log(n) access)
<elfring> How should a specific hash function implementation be passed to the functor "Hashtbl.Make"?
<Drup> by using the functor
<Drup> which you can learn how to do by reading ocaml's documentation
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<bjorkintosh> how good is the documentation?
<companion_cube> it's ok, I think
<gasche> having an example of functor application directly in the Hashtbl/Set/Map documentation could help
<gasche> (good patches welcome)
<elfring> Does the hashed data type determine the selection of a hash function implementation for the functor "Hashtbl.Make"?
<Drup> the official manual is complete but might be a bit rude, but there is plenty of very good and pedagogic books.
<companion_cube> elfring: no, you provide a type, an equality predicate and a hash function
<companion_cube> all three you have to provide
<ggole> Even pointing at the existing part of docs might be helpful
<nicoo> Drup: crude*
<elfring> Do functors support more than a single parameter?
<Enjolras> yes.
<companion_cube> some functors take several parameters, but you shouldn't need them before a long time
<Enjolras> well, it's more a functor with returns a functor than a functor which takes many parameters, but...
<Enjolras> which*
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<elfring> Would you like point out functors which describe their requirement for several input parameters?
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<companion_cube> elfring: there aren't any in the standard library, as far as I remember
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<elfring> Which "functor" parameter will handle the comparison operator and the hash function then for example?
<companion_cube> a functor takes a module as a parameter
<companion_cube> the module contains a type, and two functions
<johnelse> elfring: you need to define a module of type HashedType: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/manual-ocaml/libref/Hashtbl.HashedType.html
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<johnelse> That module then gets passed to Hashtbl.Make
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<elfring> Thanks for your answers. - The involved relationships became a bit clearer once more.
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<Anarchos> hi nikki93
<nikki93> sup
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<kmicinski> If OPAM fails to build a package, how can I go in and fix it myself
<kmicinski> OPAM is trying to tell me that I don't have libffi installed, but I do, and setting the right exports to environment variables to find it doesn't seem to be helping at all
<kmicinski> Nevermind, I found the actual place where I can rerun installation, this just seems to be a strange OSX libffi thing with ctypes :-(.
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