lapinou changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://caml.inria.fr/ | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.01.0 announce at http://bit.ly/1851A3R | Public logs at http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/ocaml/
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<locus> Is there a way to modify or add types dynamically/programmatically? If, say, I have want to use an evolutionary algorithm to evolve rules for a lindenmayer system?
<locus> I have currently modelled the symbols as "type symbols = X | Y" and the transformation rules are just matching the symbols and returning the appropriate value
<ggole> Types are entirely static in OCaml. However, you can come up with your own encoding of similar information.
<flux> well, exceptions are an.. exception to the rule, but no, you cannot add types programmatically. can even Coq can do that?
<ggole> Well, you can (sort of) do it in Lisp.
<flux> yeah, but those aren't the kind of types TaPL talks about :)
<flux> I can check tag of a value and use Obj.magic in OCaml as well if it maches :)
<ggole> Yeah, it's more of a run-time decision thing.
<ggole> A bit more involved than just tags, but similar.
<ggole> Hence the "sort of".
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<wwilly> bonjour
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<appleby> hey there
<appleby> how do I determine the types of functions and stuff of an .ml file?
<companion_cube> if you compile it using ocamlc -c foobar.ml
<companion_cube> I think you get a .mli
<adrien_oww> no?
<companion_cube> hmmmm
<adrien_oww> -i
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<flux> appleby, another approach is to use an editor like emacs or vi with some ocaml support
<appleby> i have emacs running right now
<flux> for example Emacs with turaeg-mode allows to find the type of an expression under cursor with C-c C-t
<flux> assuming you have compiled with -dannot
<flux> or is it -dtypes nowadays
<appleby> not sure i have that
<companion_cube> ocamlc -i, sorry
<flux> what does C-c C-t say?
<appleby> says undefined
<companion_cube> https://github.com/the-lambda-church/merlin/ might interest you
<flux> appleby, say key binding is undefined?
<rks`_> http://the-lambda-church.github.io/merlin/ is better for propaganda
<flux> appleby, do you have both tuareg-mode and ocaml-mode (or was it caml-mode) both installed?
<companion_cube> oh, neat
<flux> you need caml-types.el from the latter to make the former's type throwback feature work
<appleby> yea
<appleby> i think so
<flux> merlin is nice as well but it doesn't work as easily out-of-the-box IMO
<flux> (actually merlin is a whole lot nicer)
<rks`_> flux: do you have specific points which make you say that?
<rks`_> (hopefuly we can improve)
<flux> rks`_, about taking merlin into use?
<rks`_> yes
<flux> well, if it were able to pick up the used packages from _tags it would've been smoother :)
<rks`_> (damn, `_ , that's a lot)
<rks`_> ah, right!
<companion_cube> flux: come on, .merlin files are super simple
<flux> and I think some configuration needed to be done so that it works in a useful manner
<companion_cube> :)
<rks`_> well, my personal hope is that someday it will
<flux> I don't quite recall
<rks`_> but that's quite a long way down the road
<flux> companion_cube, that's true, but I need to read the documentation to do that!
<companion_cube> yeah, or just do like I do for _oasis files: read files on the internet and copy stuff ;)
<companion_cube> (I agree, you need to read about the .merlin, but it's so simple..)
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<companion_cube> (although merlin could try and read this information from _oasis, also)
<rks`_> companion_cube: _tags, _oasis, OMakefile, ...
<rks`_> there are a lot of those
<appleby> https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/blob/master/sw/ground_segment/cockpit/live.ml can someone look at this file and tell me how to print posn_lat using something like:
<appleby> prerr_endline "Warning: You are close (less than twice the max distance) to an UTM zone border ! The navigation will not work unless the GPS_USE_LATLONG flag is set and the GPS receiver configured to send the POSLLH message.
<companion_cube> I know
<companion_cube> just deal with mine
<companion_cube> :D
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<uggwar> i'm still unable to get proper indenting with ocp-indent working in vim. i've followed the instructions on how to install the script, but no success. someone with success; can you please show me what you had to do?
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<flux> heh, fun operator usage in that link, (Deg>>Rad)
<flux> sadly applyby is gone, but when he comes back, maybe he wants to know about Latlong.deg_string_of_rad
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<uggwar> AltGr: yeah, thanks! is it supposed to indent line by line automatically?
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<uggwar> maybe i have misunderstood something...
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<AltGr> I _think_ you indent by pressing '='
<AltGr> ocp-indent supports partial/line by line indent very smoothly
<AltGr> not sure about the vim mode
<flux> does ocp-indent replace tuareg or add to it?
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<AltGr> just adds
<AltGr> it won't do syntax coloring
<AltGr> (its parsing engine could be re-used for that though, that would be much more reliable)
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<AltGr> you can use it with caml-mode as well if you prefer
<flux> but coloring information can change easily, so it would exchange a lot more information
<AltGr> yeah
<flux> but, it would allow some more more interesting colorizations
<flux> for example locally assign each distinct identifier its own color
<flux> it could be helpful in identifying identifiers that have the same name but are not the same
<AltGr> not sure this would be such a good idea; typerex 1 had some type-aware colorisation but it didn't prove that useful
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<flux> well, it needs to be tried before it can be decided if it's good :)
<AltGr> some colors greatly improve readability, but too many just get confusing
<AltGr> Contributions welcome :)
<flux> so what is typerex type-aware colorization? for emacs or something else?
<AltGr> yeah, emacs
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<AltGr> and that was only supported for ocaml 3.12.1
<flux> oh
<flux> I wonder how many servers we are going to have running alongside emacs to support editing ocaml :)
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<AltGr> indeed, that's heavy-weight and causes all kinds of problems
<hcarty> flux: When the results are as impressive as merlin and ocp-indent, I'm ok with as many useful ones as people want to make :-)
<AltGr> ocp-indent doesn't run a server: it's just command-line
<hcarty> AltGr: Indeed
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<AltGr> the trick is that it's so fast it doesn't make a noticeable difference ;)
<flux> I guess it would need a huge file for ocp-indent to be slow
<hcarty> Exactly! No one knows it isn't persistent.
<Drup> flux: ocp-indenting a whole project is not very fast. I tested.
<flux> but, on the other hand, does it not hurt knowing how much work it does?-)
<flux> drup, but reindenting a single line is?
<Drup> sure
<flux> hmm, how can it be so much faster
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<Drup> it would be a PITA to use otherwise
<flux> surely it must know the indentation of the line before that
<flux> and therefore the indentation of the whole file preceding it
<Drup> flux: not really
<flux> I suppose it can skip module-level definitions
<flux> unless you are in one, then it can skip other module level definitions in that module
<flux> seems a bit tricky
<AltGr> flux, yes, and more: it adapts to the indentation of the lines before to be consistent even if you didn't follow its rules everywhere
<Drup> it's just that the indenting process is not very complicated work for a computer and is fast enough to be under human reaction time
<flux> maybe it can just walk the tree in an optimal fashion until it finds your line?
<AltGr> one go through the stream of tokens while maintaining a stack
<Drup> I think you minimize the difference between computer processing speed and human perception :D
<AltGr> it's quite cheap
<Drup> underestimate*
<AltGr> anyway just detecting where top-level values begin is a mess in OCaml's syntax
<AltGr> so you can't do much better
<rks`_> :)
<AltGr> it does provide an API where you can store information and minimize reindentation if you know where your file was changed
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<AltGr> we used it for editors compiled in js-of-ocaml, where speed was an issue
<AltGr> but for the editor mode, keeping interaction as simple as possible really is the best solution
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<sagotch> hi. if someone knows about opam packaging: I added our library to opam ( https://github.com/sagotch/opam-repository/blob/master/packages/toml/toml.20140204/opam ), but I can not install it, even a can FIND it using opam : http://pastebin.com/WySBNxeZ
<sagotch> does someone knows what is going on here ?
<sagotch> should opam-version should be "1" ?
<companion_cube> sagotch: did you add your opam-repository to the list of your remotes?
<companion_cube> (or made a pull-request to integrate it within the main opam repo)
<sagotch> it is in main opam repo
<sagotch> merged this morning
<companion_cube> ah
<AltGr> just "1.1" normally
<AltGr> ocaml > 4.01.0 ? Did you mean >= ?
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<uggwar> autoindent seems to not use ocp-indent. if i select the source, and pipe it to ocp-indent, it looks correct. but if i start typeing 'let' after a module...struct...end definition, it gets indented
<pippijn> companion_cube, gasche: ping
<companion_cube> yep?
<sagotch> looking at opam doc, < should be the good sign to use
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<sagotch> hum
<sagotch> my bad it means the opposite of what I thought it meant
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<sagotch> but opam says that toml is available for ocaml 4.01.0...
<AltGr> true, that's wrong
<companion_cube> indeed, I can find it too
<sagotch> (see pastebin link)
<pippijn> companion_cube: are you and gasche at place d'italie tomorrow?
<companion_cube> pippijn: I'll be, yes
<pippijn> I know a good chinese restaurant near tolbiac
<AltGr> well it doesn't here
<def-lkb> uggwar: I am insisting, but did you try ocp-indent-vi?
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<pippijn> (with actual chinese food)
<AltGr> so I'll take a wild guess and say it's fixed on trunk :)
<AltGr> (been fixing lots of corner cases and error messages lately :))
<uggwar> def-lkb: yes, i did. didn't change anything
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<def-lkb> uggwar: ok, it should work transparently... If you still have an install around, can you tell me the content of :set indentexpr?
<uggwar> def-lkb: sure. 1 sec!
<uggwar> def-lkb: indentexpr=GetOCamlIndent()
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<uggwar> i've just started learning ocaml, so i might write something weird. but if i pipe the same code to ocp-ident it get indented correctly
<sagotch> seems that >= solved my problem, thank you AltGr
<AltGr> np
<AltGr> Displaying the failing constraint(s) that made the package not available could be a nice addition, while I am at it...
<sagotch> is opam-version = "1.1.0" restrictive, should I use "1" ?
<sagotch> the thing is that opam find my package, and says it is available for 4.01.0, whereas it was not. I am not sure if it is a bug or not
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<AltGr> sagotch, yes, that seems to be fixed on my master branch of OPAM here, `opam list toml` doesn't show it while `opam show toml` works.
<AltGr> "1.1.0" should be fine, but other packages use "1.1"
<sagotch> okay thank you
<hcarty> AltGr: Does the opam-version field specify the minimum supported opam version for a package?
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<AltGr> kind of, it's the format of the OPAM file actually
<AltGr> but since < 1.1 isn't supported anymore by the default opam-repository anyway
<AltGr> most packages didn't update it to "1.1"
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<hcarty> AltGr: Thanks. Good to know.
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<appleby> hey, anyone here??
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<hcarty> appleby: No?
<adrien_oww> of course! but only crickets
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<appleby> hey can someone help me out
<appleby> https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/blob/master/sw/ground_segment/cockpit/live.ml can someone look at this file and tell me how to print posn_lat using something like:
<appleby> something like printf or something
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<companion_cube> appleby: what is the type of posn_lat?
<appleby> that's sort of why i asked the question haha
<companion_cube> hmpf
<companion_cube> looks like it may be what you're looking for
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<appleby> well actually that
<appleby> sends the message to the aircraft software
<companion_cube> ah
<appleby> i was just trying to debug the posn_lat
<appleby> by printint it out =-\
<companion_cube> do you have merlin installed? ^^
<appleby> no but that was a suggestion someone made
<appleby> whats ur OS
<adrien_oww> let x : int = var in
<companion_cube> linux
<companion_cube> my point was that with merlin you can "ask" the type of an expression
<appleby> yeah i know
<appleby> that's why i said someone suggested that
<appleby> lol
<companion_cube> here you need to find the type of posn_lat in some way
<appleby> yes
<appleby> do u know how to install merlin on mac
<companion_cube> most likely with opam
<companion_cube> there must be some doc on the merlin's page
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<appleby> ok
<appleby> well what's weird is that it says merlin has an -emacs mode
<appleby> but I have an emac application
<appleby> and would rather have my emac have a merlin mode
<appleby> haha
<appleby> if that is possible or makes sense?
<appleby> ok i guess that is what it does
<companion_cube> well there is a piece of code you embed in emacs
<companion_cube> so that it can communicate with merlin
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<appleby> how do i open the emacs file again
<companion_cube> no idea
<appleby> ok
<appleby> how do i know if merlin is working
<companion_cube> try to ask the type of a simple expression
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<appleby> C-c C-t?
<appleby> doesn't work
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<hcarty> appleby: posn_lat looks like it's a float
<appleby> okay thank you
<appleby> but now i guess i wanna get merlin working
<appleby> i'm on a mac
<appleby> I followed the first section installing merlin and its emacs mode with opam
<appleby> and it doesn't work
<appleby> thx btw
<hcarty> Sure
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<hcarty> I'm not a Mac or emacs user (Linux + vim) but I'd be surprised if that combination doesn't work.
<hcarty> s/doesn't work/can't be made to work/
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<hcarty> The last time I used emacs I remember having to edit a different configuration file than the one the documentation I looked at specified...
<hcarty> I don't remember what I actuall edited though. ~/.emacs.d/something maybe.
<hcarty> s/actuall/actually/
<appleby> hcarty, would you say I can print out posn_lat by using something like printf " {%d, %d, %.0f}, /* 1e7deg, 1e7deg, cm (hmsl=%.2fm) */ \\\n" (convert_angle wgs84.posn_lat) (convert_angle wgs84.posn_long) (100. *. float_of_string alt) (Egm96.of_wgs84 wgs84)
<appleby> which i got from code in another file?
<appleby> I edited ~/.emacs, which is what I used to get tuareg running
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<appleby> sorry i was gone
<appleby> disconnected
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<reynir> I don't grok omake
<hcarty> appleby: If all you want is the raw value, you can use: printf "posn_lat: %f\n" wgs84.posn_lat
<hcarty> appleby: Though I have no idea how that will interfere with the rest of the application
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<appleby> how could it interfere possibly?
<appleby> in other languages printf is a pretty benign function
<hcarty> If the application plays with stdout
<appleby> oh
<hcarty> I doubt it does, but it seems like a fairly large and complex piece of software
<appleby> also printf has no semicolon at the end?
<appleby> yeah
<appleby> well I have to figure out why the GPS is not working :(
<appleby> very complex
<appleby> and as you can see I'm an Ocaml novice
<hcarty> You would need a semicolon at the end of the line
<hcarty> Everyone starts out as a novice :-)
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<appleby> problem is i have 2 weeks
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<hcarty> Get merlin working as soon as you're able. And spread printf calls everywhere.
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<appleby> ok yea
<appleby> any ideas why it's not working
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<uggwar> def-lkb: it was vim-polyglot who interefered. now ocp-indent-vim works perfectly!
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<maurer> Is there any way to make a file level functor the same way that files are normally modules?
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<Drup> maurer: no
<ggole> You can nest one inside the file though.
<appleby> can anyone help me set up merlin with emacs
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<appleby> hello??
<kakadu_> who is there?!
<kakadu_> Where am I?
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<appleby> lol
<appleby> can you help me set up merlin with emacs
<kakadu_> Have you tried the tutorial?
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<appleby> yes
<Kakadu> do you have .merlin file?
<appleby> in particular
<appleby> I tried this
<appleby> i tried the section Installing merlin and its emacs mode with opam
<appleby> and M-x merlin-version does nothing
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<Kakadu> any errors during startup?
<appleby> nope
<appleby> none that I see at least
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<Kakadu> M-x merlin-mode doesn't work too?
<appleby> says no match
<appleby> i'm on a mac OS by the way
<Kakadu> I'm on GNU/Linux
<appleby> right
<appleby> should that make a diff
<Kakadu> no idea
<appleby> i mean the guide does not specify
<appleby> any other ideas
<appleby> as to how I get merlin to work
<Kakadu> appleby: You can try to dig something useful in https://github.com/Kakadu/dotfiles/blob/master/emacs
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<appleby> I have no idea
<appleby> about that
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<Kakadu> M-x describe-variable opam-share
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<appleby> hey sorry I was disconnected
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<appleby> I think I got merlin working but when I do C-c C-t it just says buffer has no process
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<appleby> hello??
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<jdoles> Is there any list of libraries somewhere which has been 'vetted' by professionals? The problem with all of this open-source stuff is that anyone can distribute something (and thus also waste my time with looking at it).
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<companion_cube> jdoles: what's a professional to you? someone paid to check whether libraries are good?
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<companion_cube> does a professional programmer who writes code in her free time pass?
* nicoo would happily take money to recommend you some libraries :>
<jdoles> companion_cube: no, someone who builds important infrastructure to solve some problem.
<nicoo> companion_cube: Are you a professional programer or a professional researcher who happens to have code as a by-product ?
<companion_cube> well, I'm paid to do research :)
<companion_cube> jdoles: so, small code isn't good enough, it has to be "large infrastructure"?
<jdoles> companion_cube: small code never reaches edge cases.
<nicoo> Yes. But do you consider programing to be a key part of your research activity ?
<companion_cube> nicoo: I do, actually, it's exploratory programmng ;)
<jdoles> companion_cube: that's one of the reasons why Java is popular; other people have already worked out the bugs.
<companion_cube> ah.
<nicoo> jdoles: Ahahahahah. Nope.
<companion_cube> and the language is so good you can write your own easily
<jdoles> I think OCamlJava or whatever is in principle a good idea, assuming it works.
<companion_cube> I'd like proof that open-source OCaml is more buggy than professionally-written java
<jdoles> companion_cube: do OCaml projects even come with standard tests these days?
<jdoles> If there is just an API, and no tests, why should I even consider for a second that it will work for all cases?
<companion_cube> what if it's extracted from coq? ;)
<jdoles> companion_cube: that counts.
<companion_cube> more seriously, oUnit is one of the most popular package
<companion_cube> so I guess people write tests
<companion_cube> I do in many cases
<jdoles> Where can I do SELECT * FROM projects where oUnitTests >= 20 and author_education>='university' and age>=30 ?
<companion_cube> -_-
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<companion_cube> ok, I should ignore you actually
<nicoo> jdoles: Sounds like rather random criteria. And where can you do such a « query » for Java libs ?
<companion_cube> "age >= 30", wtf
<jdoles> companion_cube: young people are reckless and think they know everything.
<companion_cube> indeed, and since I'm less than 30 I can't help you. bye.
<jdoles> companion_cube: bye
<whitequark> a hilarious attempt at trolling? *shrug*
<jdoles> No, just pointing out that there is no organized community.
<adrien> 23:09 jdoles : Where can I do SELECT * FROM projects where oUnitTests >= 20 and author_education>='university' and age>=30 ?
<adrien> *LOL*
<adrien> you want the industry's best-kept secret?
<adrien> author_education >= university is often what gets you crap
<Drup> adrien : their code is shit, but nobody know it, because it's closed source ? :D
<jdoles> adrien: looks like we have found someone without one.
<adrien> some of the best devs I know did stuff like BTS and the like (french stuff)
<adrien> jdoles: wooooooooops, wrong
<adrien> Drup: I think that's pretty much that :P
<jdoles> adrien: not everyone lives in Frechyville.
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<jdoles> Frenchyville, even.
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<Drup> jdoles: by curiosity, what are you doing professionally to be so uptight about industry-strength code ? :)
* whitequark recalls that time when his university hired him, a freshman, as a programmer, because apparently a diploma doesn't translate to good code.
<adrien> well, I, for one, do, and I think I've been too nice to try to think of an equivalent for you to understand
<jdoles> whitequark: no, that's just because they are tight money wise.
<whitequark> jdoles: you sound as if you know everything
<jdoles> whitequark: that would be almost correct.
<jdoles> Anyway, if I want my little database, I just need to write a little crawler to figure out that information.
* whitequark wonders how many Dijkstras would jdoles measure at
<whitequark> 1.5 ?
<def-lkb> :')
* jdoles wouldn't be surprised if he had been my father, but alas that's not the case.
<Drup> well
<Drup> Dijkstras actually produced interesting and clever stuff
<Drup> from you jdoles, I have yet to see something else that bullshit.
<jdoles> Drup: give me a call when universities find the money to pay me.
<jdoles> Drup: and I don't think Dijkstra was that impressive.
<companion_cube> wow.
<jdoles> Drup: he just was one of the first to have a computer with a proper background.
<companion_cube> I guess Knuth isn't impressive either?
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<companion_cube> (at least he's more than 30)
jdoles was kicked from #ocaml by adrien [please go elsehere to be derogatory, and no it isn't about Dijkstra]
<adrien> and now I can sleep
<def-lkb> "PAN!"
<whitequark> hey, he was rather entertaining
<adrien> yeah but I'm going to bed and I didn't want to let him loose during the night
<whitequark> sure, sure :)
<adrien> one day we can get more +f, +F and +o on this channel
<companion_cube> who's the owner actually?
<adrien> but that day is not today and not this month either
<companion_cube> I see you like to keep the power all for yourself.
<adrien> exactly!
<adrien> which means you're first on the list of next ops
<adrien> I'm sure you'll find it very funny :P
<companion_cube> :>
<adrien> :)
<ousado> wooot
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<nicoo> adrien: I'm afraid of what C³ would do with that.
<adrien> nicoo: invent a new way to op a channel?
<nicoo> Probably auto-kick people without a high enough frequency of #yolo :þ
<adrien> I don't know what else he could do
<adrien> :D
<adrien> right!
<nicoo> Oh, yes, probably :D
<adrien> I had forgotten he was forbidden to get +o because of his tendency to say "yolo"
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<companion_cube> no, I would kick people who don't say "yolo" enough
<companion_cube> and adrien would be the first on my list
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