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<meiji11>
es
<meiji11>
es
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<flux>
fast-forwarded through the state of ocaml 2015 representation, sadly no state of multicore mentioned
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<adrien>
has anyone here paid attention to the cross-compilation issue where ocaml currently tries to dlopen() the C libraries it links against in bytecode in order to ensure that all the symbols are available?
<adrien>
and has looked at ld's --no-undefined option
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<Hrorek>
why does 800/80/8 evaluate to 1
<ely-se>
because 800 / 80 is 10, and 10 / 8 is 1.25, which is truncated to 1 because that's how integer division works
<Hrorek>
how do I perform a float division
<ely-se>
convert the arguments to floats first
<Hrorek>
the repl gives an error when I do 800.0/80.0
<ely-se>
and also use the float division operator
<ely-se>
100.0 /. 80.0 /. 8.0
<Hrorek>
ah, gotcha
<ely-se>
integer and floating point arithmetic use different operators
<ely-se>
the floating point ones are suffixed with a period; +., -., *. and /..
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<poulpeux>
Hello, is there a way to save caml values from garbage collection in C side ? I have heard of CAMLparam and CAMLlocal, but I would like a caml value to live much longer. Should I treat it as a global variable, and use caml_register_global_root ?
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<Kakadu>
I think caml_register_global_root is OK
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<poulpeux>
Thank you.
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<orbitz>
companion_cube: does containers hav ea clear end state?
<companion_cube>
you mean, will it freeze at some point?
<orbitz>
LIke is there a feature complete
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<companion_cube>
hmm, no ^^
<companion_cube>
maybe at some point it will be perfect, but I doubt it :)
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<orbitz>
I don't mean liek no changes but more like, will it grow to infinity like Core
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<companion_cube>
no, the core is meant to be quite small, and it will certainly not grow interdependencies like core
<companion_cube>
the core of containers*
<companion_cube>
otoh containers.data contains a decent amount of stuff now :)
<companion_cube>
theoretically if you use 1 module out of 10, you only link to this one
<orbitz>
Is there any cost in Ocaml to overlaying a function? Like if I do let x ~f l = List.filter f l, is that free?
<companion_cube>
I don't k now, that depends on the inliner :/
<companion_cube>
do you miss labels that much?
<orbitz>
yes :)
<orbitz>
It makes code much more readable IMO
<ely-se>
whoo, my COBOL compiler can now compile calls with BY REFERENCE arguments :P
<Kakadu>
Hey, folks. Do you ever think about embedding something from relational languages to OCaml or seen any papers about it?
<orbitz>
fold, for example, I can never remember the order of params
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<companion_cube>
orbitz: that's less of a hassle for me with merlin now
<companion_cube>
kakadu: there is mini kanren, if that's what you are referring to
<orbitz>
taht is nice for writing code, but I like to be able to easily read code without depedning on mye ditor
<companion_cube>
right
<companion_cube>
remind me, if a function has labels and is applied without labels, does it work?
<orbitz>
no, i don't think so
<Kakadu>
companion_cube: What do you think about it?
<companion_cube>
nothing
<companion_cube>
oh it works
<orbitz>
Oh wait
<orbitz>
I lied
<orbitz>
i does
<orbitz>
:)
<orbitz>
whoops, just tested
<companion_cube>
are you on containers-users?
<orbitz>
Yes, afaik I'm the second person to post on it ;)
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<companion_cube>
oh, was that you?
<orbitz>
Yep
<companion_cube>
:)
<orbitz>
I wouldn't mind giving up Core. My biggest problem right now is Async
<ely-se>
get stackful coroutines to work, no more need for asynchronity since you can turn async and sync into one another cheaply
<orbitz>
indeed
<Algebr>
I keep trying to use result types but it always ends up a hassle, core/async made it easy to use result types
<orbitz>
any update on that?
<companion_cube>
you prefer Async to Lwt, or is it just the cost of moving?
<orbitz>
I like the Async error model more than Lwt
<companion_cube>
I don't use futures a lot, but when I do I tend to use explicit errors (`Ok | `Error)
<orbitz>
Async also integrates well with Core, which I'm using. So patially it's just the cost of omving
<Algebr>
orbitz: yea, async's error model was well though out.
<orbitz>
I have a faira mount of code in Core
<Algebr>
thought*
<orbitz>
But looking at async code now, they don't support kqueue, which will be a showstopper for me.
<orbitz>
I'd like something that just wraps libev
<Algebr>
I thought there already was a libev library
<orbitz>
I think lwt uses kqueue
<orbitz>
Algebr: Async does no use libev as far as I can tell
<Algebr>
I meant opam search libev
<orbitz>
yes, it's caleld conf-libev
<orbitz>
companion_cube: do you know what hte plan is for Lwt once this multicore stuff comes out? Will Lwt be less meaningful?
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<companion_cube>
I don't know
<companion_cube>
I suppose Lwt will use the effect mechanism
<companion_cube>
(if it is included in multicore)
<companion_cube>
so 'a Lwt.t will still indicate blocking, but will work differently underneath
<Drup>
lwt cares about concurency, multicore cares about paralelism
<Drup>
so there are still uses for lwt
<companion_cube>
I suppose Lwt_preemptive will e more useful
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<Drup>
yeah
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<companion_cube>
Drup: what do you think about labels in containers?
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<Drup>
I like labels
<companion_cube>
I didn't think much about it before, but since it's possible to add them without breaking compat...
<companion_cube>
(you didn't register to containers-users yet, did you?)
<Drup>
hum ? no it's not ...
<Drup>
except if you add a new interface, ListLabels, that nobody is going to use because the module name is far too long
<companion_cube>
hmm, it breaks at partial calls, I suppose?
<companion_cube>
yes
<Drup>
so no, I was not subsribed to that one
<companion_cube>
look at the archive to see what you missed (not much)
<companion_cube>
aww shit, indeed, those combinators do appear partially applied -_-
<Drup>
companion_cube: first, there is that
<Drup>
and second, labels break high order usages
<Drup>
this is why you have to be very careful where you use them
<companion_cube>
I know, but do you often pass List.map as an argument?
<companion_cube>
the |> use case is much more problematic
<Drup>
it happens ...
<Drup>
not often, but it does
<Drup>
You asked about back compat, I answer :)
<Drup>
Adding labels does break compat in many ways
<companion_cube>
yep
<companion_cube>
so... FooLabels? :/
<orbitz>
Drup: is the ListLabel solution free?
<Drup>
it's free and crap
<orbitz>
I was actuallyt hinking of containers.labels
<companion_cube>
that leaves little solutions
<orbitz>
Just a lirbary that overlays on contaienrs
<Drup>
orbitz: that would work better
<orbitz>
so containers.labels.data etc
<companion_cube>
that looks quite painful to paintain
<companion_cube>
maintain
<orbitz>
yep, definitnely
<orbitz>
but maintains backwars compat
<Drup>
:/
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<orbitz>
Possibly you could use travis or soemthing to ensure some testing for it
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<companion_cube>
I know it's stupid, but could I duplicate some functions (map -> map', say) with labels, and deprecate the old ones?
<orbitz>
So we'd use map' ~f?
<companion_cube>
yeah, no, it's ugly
<orbitz>
What if somethign along th eliens of you deprecetd containers and all new work went into containers.labels
<orbitz>
Lame, I kow, but it keeps containers stuck in time but allows moving forward
<orbitz>
maybe it's named something better than contaienrs.labels
<companion_cube>
I'd rather use git branches
<companion_cube>
(and two releases with different names)
<companion_cube>
let me write this in a mail
<orbitz>
ok
<orbitz>
By branches do yo umean you'd keep both live?
<orbitz>
I'm suggesting freezing containers as-is and, in the same release, just moving forward with containers.labels (or containers.next, or containers.spiffytitle) :)
<companion_cube>
I'd keep a bleeding edge branch and a mostly-backward-compatible branch, I think
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<Drup>
companion_cube: please don't add map'
<companion_cube>
I know, it's stupid
<orbitz>
companion_cube: that seems like a lot of work, to me, and confusing.
<orbitz>
does bleeding edge eventually go into mostly-backwars-compat and break backwards-compat?
<companion_cube>
yes, I think so
<companion_cube>
but a few versions later
<companion_cube>
if you really don't want to move, you can use old versions?
<orbitz>
Hrm, maybe. I dunno, I've always been bitten by the 'bleeding edge' release in the past.
<orbitz>
like Core_extended was basically that and it just sucked because you were always scrambling to keep up.
<orbitz>
Perhaps you have a less painful way to do it in mind
<orbitz>
Anyways, got to sleep! THanks for consiering labels.
<companion_cube>
well I'd like them too, that's why ;)
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<ollehar>
ok, if whitequark didn't get llvm to work with ocaml gc then there's absolutely no way in hell that I will.
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