adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<palomer> hey guys
<palomer> I’m tired of typing out everything in emacs
<palomer> does anyone use abbrev mode in emacs?
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<Algebr> Any helper functions availble to turn bytes into bigarray and vice versa
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<Algebr> okay, not too bad to write myself.
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<echo-are`> What is the prerequisite of reading /Using, Understanding, and Unraveling OCaml/? I have difficulties while reading contents about type inference
<companion_cube> I don't know about this book, sorry :(
<echo-are`> It's this one: http://caml.inria.fr/pub/docs/u3-ocaml/
<companion_cube> oh, a summer school lecture
<companion_cube> it's probably directed at grad students
<companion_cube> (thanks for the link, that might interest me too)
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<whitequark> opam is so broken since 1.2 :(
<Drup> is it ?
<whitequark> yes
<whitequark> I tried to do one thing and I'm already filing four issues
<whitequark> the thing worked on 1.1.
<Drup> :/
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<Drup> Yes, I followed
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<sbrouf> hello
<sbrouf> i'm having issues defining a class inside a functor
<sbrouf> (i have no idea whether that's a recommended thing do to...)
<Drup> what kind of issues ?
<sbrouf> i can't access the functor inside the class definition
<sbrouf> here is a pastebin
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<sbrouf> ocaml says : Error: Unbound module PTypes
<sbrouf> on line 26
<Drup> can you give the complete file ?
<Drup> or at least something syntacticall correct
<sbrouf> sorry, this one should work
<sbrouf> hem
<Drup> works fine for me
<ely-se> I wonder if OCaml functors are more powerful than Scala classes.
<Drup> aren't scala classes just mostly sum types ?
<sbrouf> ok, the cursor was on the wrong place when evaluating in emacs;...
<sbrouf> thanks Drup !
<sbrouf> sorry for the time
<ely-se> Drup: they're like, Java classes, except can contain abstract type members
<Drup> then it's mostly equivalent
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<ely-se> this is like existentials :p
<ely-se> absolutely fascinating
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<tibor_> Hi
<tibor_> How can I tell to ocaml debugger to stop after the first exception?
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<palomer> does anyone else have a problem with tuareg-mode misindenting let open … in ?
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<Kakadu> I remember something like that
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<ggole> palomer: I had indentation trouble and moved to ocp-indent.
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<ollehar> "C++ hits a sweet spot between performance and control on one end, and safety, maintainability, and convenience on the other."
<ollehar> Sweet-spot? Really?
<def`> I wonder how you can make a langage less safe :p
<companion_cube> it's more type safe than C, but that's about it
<def`> more expressive, but more type safe?!
<companion_cube> yes
<companion_cube> what's so surprising?
<companion_cube> OCaml is both more type safe and more expressive than java, don't you think?
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<def`> how is it more type safe?
<companion_cube> well you can't case as easily, and templates make lots of void* useless
<companion_cube> cast*
<def`> if you consider array covariance, yes it is.
<smondet> companion_cube: C++ often forces you to cast (functions like `malloc`) where C does not need to (and shouldn't)
<def`> preprocessor could allow avoiding those *
<companion_cube> why would you use malloc with C++?
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<smondet> just an example of function from C APIs
<companion_cube> def`: preprocessor is the least type-safe thing on earth
<companion_cube> smondet: idiomatic C++ has much richer types than C, really
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<companion_cube> of course you can write C-like C++, but that's a it frowned upob
<companion_cube> uopn
<ely-se> write C-style C++ and you get C-style bugs, have fun
<ely-se> smondet: only utter morons call malloc in C++
<rks`> :)
<adrien> nope
<adrien> sometimes you need to do C bits in the middle of C++ code
<ely-se> write good code and there is little need to cast. also see https://github.com/isocpp/CppCoreGuidelines/blob/master/CppCoreGuidelines.md
<rks`> I like how I'm not the one telling people they are morons anymore
<rks`> it's refreshing
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<companion_cube> rks`: you lost your monopoly
<adrien> but that's a design feature of C++
<adrien> rks`: you're growing old!
<adrien> being copied and everything
<ely-se> he's a legend
<rks`> no doubt.
<companion_cube> you've been speaking for 3 minutes without being insulting, careful
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<ely-se> that reminds me, maybe I should work on my C++ I/O library some more
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<palomer> ocp-indent?
<palomer> is that a tuareg replacement?
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<Armael> it replaces the indentation part of tuareg
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<orbifx> is there a way to avoid `let` repetition?
<orbifx> somehow group them together?
<flux> the options: let a, b, c = 4, 1, 2 in ... let a = 42 and b = 12765 in ..
<flux> but they aren't really equivalent to a sequence of let .. ins
<flux> in particular, they cannot refer to earlier bindings within the same group
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<companion_cube> let a = x and b = y and ... in
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<orbifx> thanks flux and companion_cube
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<orbifx> neither , nor `and` can refer to previous bindings?
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<flux> correct
<flux> this works: let (x, y) = (4, 2) let x = y and y = x
<orbifx> ok thanks
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<orbifx> on another topic, potential parallelism (concurrency)
<orbifx> does ocaml suppor that automatically for non interacting code?
<orbifx> I pressume not, but want to know more baout it
<companion_cube> OCaml isn't very strong for parallelism
<companion_cube> (it's one of the main argument of its detractors)
<flux> parallellism works on in ocaml as long you're writing it in c ;-)
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<companion_cube> heard it's easier in rust
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<flux> having a GC that works with threads and is efficient both with and without threads is a tricky business I understand
<flux> in particular if you have allocation-heavy code like ocaml code typically is
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<MercurialAlchemi> companion_cube: it's kind of the point of Rust, Mozilla wants a heavily parallel rendering engine
<flux> apparently servo already works, mostly
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<flux> and is parallel, and fast
<companion_cube> well yes
<flux> but it's maybe the last 10% that's the tricky part.. :)
<MercurialAlchemi> no doubt
<MercurialAlchemi> the web is a collection of corner cases
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<palomer> is it posisble to run code while in ocamldebug?
<palomer> possible
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<orbifx> flux: what work is being done on that side do you know?
<orbifx> companion_cube: the above question is also for you.
<companion_cube> you mean work on parallelism? yes, ocaml-multicore at ocamllabs (Cambridge)
<companion_cube> but it's not merged yet in the official compiler
<orbifx> ok
<orbifx> any news on how that is performing
<orbifx> wow rust is fast :/
<companion_cube> I don't know
<companion_cube> rust is definitely fast, but also more cumbersome to write than OCaml imho
<orbifx> yeah
<orbifx> don't like the notation so much :/
<orbifx> but it says pure-functional and it's fast :P
<orbifx> darn it
<orbifx> want to decide on a language for this project.. started some bits in ocaml and was super happy with it
<orbifx> now I got more thinking to do :P
<companion_cube> hu? rust is not purely functional
<companion_cube> it has many functional aspects though
<orbifx> says supporting pure-functional
<companion_cube> [dubious-discuss]
<Leonidas> C also supports pure-functional
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<dsheets> I support fasting but I don't do it often.
<companion_cube> hey, o/ dsheets
<dsheets> hey
<dsheets> are you golfing?
<companion_cube> not that I'm aware of
<dsheets> ok, you are teeing off next to my name?
<companion_cube> no, I'm waving my hand in a friendly greeting
<dsheets> or is it like field hockey?
<dsheets> oh, it's your head
<dsheets> o/
<companion_cube> yeah, I have a big round head
<companion_cube> \o
<dsheets> \o/ hooray
<companion_cube> o/\o high five
<companion_cube> anyway, still at Cambridge?
<dsheets> this could be the syntax of the next big language
<dsheets> emotilang
<dsheets> yeah, still in/at cam
<companion_cube> for (i=0; ; :+1+)
<companion_cube> :+1:
<companion_cube> gah
<dsheets> just got back from looong trip so catching up on everything... gotta release softwarez
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<companion_cube> such as codoc?
<companion_cube> ;) ;) ;)
<dsheets> yes
<companion_cube> sounds nice
<companion_cube> are there projects to host opam packages' doc on ocaml.org?
<dsheets> none yet but something combining codoc and ciso could do that
<companion_cube> a central place to look doc up is critical, imho
<dsheets> it's on the road map but hasn't been started
<companion_cube> some packageds barely have doc (e.g. , Zarith)
<companion_cube> ok
<companion_cube> then: documentation hosted on unikernels!
<dsheets> yes, it is and we will get there but first command line tools to do local gen and upload
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<Drup> dsheets: it means I can start trying codoc on functoria again ?
<Drup> (last tentative was not really a success)
<dsheets> Drup, not yet but soon
<Drup> ok
<dsheets> i just got back and then slept and now i am doing stuff for SOSP next week
<dsheets> but that should be done tomorrow and then codoc
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<Drup> seliopou_: so many releases :p
<Drup> very interested by the D3 bindings, I'll have to study that. The few time I looked at the D3 API, I was quite convinced it was basically untypable
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<orbifx> we discussed this a few days ago, but need elaboration: is foo * bar a synonym of foo, bar?
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<Armael> (foo, bar) is a term (like (1, 3) for example)
<Armael> (foo * bar) is a type (like (int * float))
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<orbifx> practical differences?
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<orbifx> does type mean that is has to be a "type" declared structure, or is it a signature notation
<Snark> orbifx: a type is "abstract" and a term is "concrete"
<Snark> 2 is a term
<Snark> int is its type
<Snark> a term is an "element", a type is a "set" (not a very good comparison...)
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<ely-se> a fool is a fool and a fool is a fool
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<Snark> ely-se: you're helping worse than I do... impressive! :-P
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<ely-se> that's because I'm a fool
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<orbifx> Thanks Snark
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<ollehar> what this "caml__dummy" all about in the C API?
<ollehar> macro expands to it
<joncfoo> anyone know if it's possible to get oasis to generate .merlin files?
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<Drup> joncfoo:
<Drup> No
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<joncfoo> is there a technical reason?
<joncfoo> or just not implemented?
<Drup> not implemented
<Drup> (probably because oasis is not really developed since before merlin existed)
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<joncfoo> oh I didn't realize that
<joncfoo> so what's the current preferred way to manage a project?
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<Drup> oasis is fine :p
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<joncfoo> could I please get some fresh eyes on this simple problem: https://gist.github.com/joncfoo/18591aefd171dc88b292
<joncfoo> I can't get oasis/ocamlbuild to find a library
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<Drup> you oasis setup'd properly ?
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<joncfoo> ah that was it
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<joncfoo> d'oh
<joncfoo> thanks Drup!
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