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<mangix> aparcar[m]: next up, lzo :). lzo was used by openvpn. now nothing uses it.
<dorf> lzo is also used by zram, no?
<mangix> zram uses the kernel stuff I believe
<mangix> not liblzo
<dorf> true that: kmod-lib-lzo
<mangix> lzo is pretty old to be honest. better stuff exists
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<aparcar[m]> mangix: uhm sure
<mangix> I think lz4 compresses better and is faster than lzo. let me check
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<mangix> yeah
<mangix> oh that's painful
<mangix> lz4 uses more RAM
<dorf> therein lies the rub!
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<mangix> 13MB vs 0.2MB
<mangix> that's...quite the difference
<dorf> ouch
<dorf> cpu overheads are higher too, no?
<mangix> doesn't look like it
<mangix> lz4 compresses faster
<mangix> also decompresses faster
<mangix> but that memory usage...
<mangix> lz4 also compresses smaller
<dorf> "LZ4 generally offering the best performance with least CPU usage."
<mangix> it's interesting in that facebook people mostly focus on zstd, which is lz4 + coding
<dorf> apparently there are methods to reduce lz4 mem usage.
<mangix> I'm sure many improvements could be backported to lz4 from zstd
<dorf> oh, wait, that's talking about ram reduction of snappy. nevermind.
<dorf> still, a useful comparison table on that link.
<dorf> zstd slower than lz4 to decompress.
<dorf> better ratio, slower decompression.
<mangix> yeah the coding scheme slows it down
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<mangix> aparcar[m]: when merging patches from patchwork, you want to change the state to accepted
<mangix> so they get removed from the list
<mangix> dorf: RAM usage is not a concern in most circumstances. but this is OpenWrt
<mangix> hence why people recommend LZ4/ZSTD
<dorf> indeed, indeed.
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<dorf> I feel somewhat blessed with the 500MB available here, and somewhat cursed by the firmware blob :)
<mangix> what device?
<dorf> wrt1900acs
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<mangix> I have 8GB on mine
<dorf> storage, you mean? or ram?
<mangix> storage
<mangix> RAM is 2GB
<dorf> yeah, 8GB storage on the wrt.
<mangix> It's a Turris Omnia. Based on the same platform as the WRT devices
<dorf> yeah, nice looking device, albeit a bit expensive.
<mangix> The whole point of the router is to be overkill to be honest.
<dorf> bought the wrt second hand for around $100US, suits me.. runs as a client, no problem with perf.
<mangix> right. the platform is solid
<dorf> it annoys me that marvell/nxp/belkin aren't coordinating on full opensourcing of the firmware, but other than that, no regrets.
<mangix> right. that's one of the problems. the other is USB compatibility.
<dorf> haven't experienced that issue. 2 thumb drives plugged in fine, one running as exroot, the other as swap.
<mangix> One of my USB SATA interfaces can connect, the other can't.
<mangix> Also, USB power between both ports is shared
<mangix> The Turris Omnia having two USB ports was a bad idea.
<dorf> one for storage, one for printer. sane in principle.
<mangix> Right. But on most platforms, USB power is not shared.
<dorf> yeah, I hear you.
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<mangix> interesting. pkgconfig also looks for files in /usr/share/pkgconfig
<mangix> there's only a single package in OpenWrt that installs to there.
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<ByteEnable> The master is using a 5.4.x kernel. I noticed in the build make menuconfig the only selection for MVEBU based boards is a lump of 370/375/385. Whereas the 5.4 kernel offers granularity to only select the 38X based SoC's. Are there reasons for this?
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<mangix> ByteEnable: no idea what that means.
<mangix> there are multiple mvebu platformas
<mangix> *platforms
<ByteEnable> CONFIG_ARMADA_370_CLK=y
<ByteEnable> CONFIG_ARMADA_370_XP_IRQ=y
<ByteEnable> CONFIG_ARMADA_370_XP_TIMER=y
<ByteEnable> # CONFIG_ARMADA_37XX_WATCHDOG is not set
<ByteEnable> CONFIG_ARMADA_38X_CLK=y
<ByteEnable> CONFIG_ARMADA_THERMAL=y
<ByteEnable> CONFIG_ARMADA_XP_CLK=y
<ByteEnable> From 5.4. If I manually make menuconfig and select the SoC which is a 385 used by my wrt3200acm, only 38X is selected in the config.
<ByteEnable> In the openwrt build it is selecting all ARMADA devices.
<mangix> expected behavior
<ByteEnable> Then there is really no diff between Armada 370 vs 385?
<ByteEnable> From what I can tell it is being used to select the boot and dts sutff.
<mangix> different dts files are used but same kernel
<ByteEnable> I just haven't looked at how deep those options might go. So that is why I am asking.
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<ByteEnable> I will grep it out and see .
<ByteEnable> obj-$(CONFIG_ARMADA_370_CLK) += armada-370.o
<ByteEnable> obj-$(CONFIG_ARMADA_375_CLK) += armada-375.o
<ByteEnable> obj-$(CONFIG_ARMADA_39X_CLK) += armada-39x.o
<ByteEnable> obj-$(CONFIG_ARMADA_38X_CLK) += armada-38x.o
<ByteEnable> So it does generate extra code.
<ByteEnable> Maybe just a few bytes but there some extra maybe.
<ByteEnable> It looks like the 385 is leveraging the 370 for some CPU architecture stuff like IRQs.
<ByteEnable> Well that's good. No worries then.
<mangix> some of the drivers are shared yes
<ByteEnable> Yeah. Looks like the combination is also generating the weakest code too. Because the 385 has crypto engine and neon.
<ByteEnable> It's using NEON when it builds raid but raid is XOR intensive.
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<mangix> ByteEnable: mvebu has a XOR driver
<mangix> hmm I think it's only used for mdadm though
<ByteEnable> Look at my captured build.log (make V=sc), only RAID is using NEON. Everywhere else its -mfpu=vfp which is an alias vfp2.
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<mangix> hmmmmmmmmmmm where the hell is this XOR driver used?
<mangix> ok I see references in md/raid5.[ch]
<mangix> so btrfs doesn't use it. wonder why.
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<mangix> finally figured it out. btrfs does not support hardware XOR
<mangix> ugh
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<ByteEnable> CONFIG_KERNEL_MODE_NEON is not set in Master.
<mangix> armada 370 does not support NEON
<ByteEnable> 385 does though.
<ByteEnable> wrt32x wrt3200acm
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<ByteEnable> turris omnia
<dorf> don't forget the wrt1900acs :)
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<ByteEnable> Yeah looks like about 7 routers.
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<ByteEnable> Lots of verbage on using NEON in kernel mode. Only crypto and raid use NEON in kernel mode.
<ByteEnable> Documentation/arm/kernel_mode_neon.rst
<ByteEnable> Also there in an option to select vfp3 but only vfp is ever used in the kernel as well.
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<ByteEnable> Looking upstream at 5.9. It's the same. Only make use of vfp. No vfp3.
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<mangix> ByteEnable: this has had contention. the reason for not adding an extra target is to lessen buildbot load.
<ByteEnable> Oh yeah of course.
<mangix> There's nobody that has shown NEON to have a good enough advantage
<ByteEnable> Yeah it looks like in kernel mode no one is really using it or vfp3. Maybe openSSL or encrypted network traffic.
<ByteEnable> IPv6 has encryption built into the spec.
<mangix> I think kernel NEON is already enabled for some stuff
<mangix> probably gets en/disabled at runtime
<ByteEnable> You would think Arm would be all over this but maybe there is really no real world performance gains.
<mangix> NEON's just for crypto and multimedia stuff
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<ByteEnable> Yeah Arm's version of SIMD.
<mangix> that's all SIMD's useful for
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<ByteEnable> Arm is gunning for x86 so they have some big fish to fry right now.
<ByteEnable> Apple switched.
<ByteEnable> That's one thing about Apple. They are not shy to move platforms.
<ByteEnable> Not an Apple fanboy. I use Android.
<mangix> Apple switched to ARM for a different reason than most.
<mangix> they want control of the entire supply chain
<ByteEnable> Probably.
<ByteEnable> Hey I found a good faq on vfp: https://wiki.debian.org/ArmHardFloatPort/VfpComparison
<ByteEnable> Bottom line: NEON requires hand tuning to get any real gain.
<ByteEnable> Or buy the $6000 compiler from Arm.
<mangix> yeah
<mangix> wireguard neon code for example is hand tuned
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<owrt-1907-builds> build #208 of zynq/generic is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/zynq%2Fgeneric/builds/208
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<mangix> finally found out why ccache was failing with some packages
<mangix> libcxx
<owrt-1907-builds> build #210 of bcm53xx/generic is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/bcm53xx%2Fgeneric/builds/210
<aparcar[m]> mangix: ping
<owrt-1907-builds> build #206 of brcm2708/bcm2710 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/brcm2708%2Fbcm2710/builds/206
<mangix> aparcar[m]: pong
<aparcar[m]> is the lzo thing merged?
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<aparcar[m]> mangix:
<aparcar[m]> can you please tell me how to test this? https://github.com/openwrt/openwrt/pull/1491
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<mangix> x32 huh
<mangix> that requires a special host system
<aparcar[m]> ok I'll postpone it
<mangix> yeah that's not for a 32-bit VM as he mentioned
<mangix> it's a 64-bit host system where the environment is all 32-bit
<mangix> it's a weird environment
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<aparcar[m]> ugh
<mangix> if you read on the bottom, almost everyone hates it
<aparcar[m]> about your lzo patch, what about package/utils/mtd-utils/Makefile ?
<aparcar[m]> it requires lzo but then is compiled --without-lzo
<mangix> oh. build_depends....
<mangix> that makes no sense
<owrt-1907-builds> build #240 of mpc85xx/generic is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/mpc85xx%2Fgeneric/builds/240
<aparcar[m]> please install ripgrep and check those cases before proposing a removal :)
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<mangix> all of those build depends are probably bogus
<mangix> I'll clean the package up
<aparcar[m]> thank you
<mangix> OK util-linux is needed because of libuuid
<mangix> great
<mangix> wait a minute...
<owrt-1907-builds> build #197 of apm821xx/nand is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/apm821xx%2Fnand/builds/197
<mangix> I see. all the binaries are linked statically.
<mangix> enjoy
<aparcar[m]> why is qemu 0.14.1 shipped within openwrt while upstream is... 5.1?
<mangix> I believe the version in tools/ is only used to create an x86 image
<mangix> that is, only one binary is used
<aparcar[m]> yea but seem to buildfail on this exotic x32 env
<mangix> oh I see
<mangix> I guess it's time to update.
<mangix> I think stintel can be a guinea pig
<aparcar[m]> mangix: that's the spirit
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<mangix> let's see
<aparcar[m]> mangix: your commit message is a bit to casual
<mangix> what's the latest version
<aparcar[m]> 5.1.0 but we have 5.0.0 in packages.git, which I copy patsed
<owrt-1907-builds> build #238 of layerscape/armv8_64b is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/layerscape%2Farmv8_64b/builds/238
<mangix> 5.2.0 is at rc4
<mangix> joy
<aparcar[m]> don't get gready
<mangix> ah found out why it's not updated
<mangix> ERROR: glib-2.48 gthread-2.0 is required to compile QEMU
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<aparcar[m]> meaning?
<mangix> those are huge dependencies
<aparcar[m]> we only ever use qemu to convert stuff right? can't it be stipped down?
<mangix> I'm sure it can
<aparcar[m]> isn't it cleaner to have qemu with qemu-img only in version 5.1.0?
<mangix> looks like QEMU must be configured
<aparcar[m]> mangix: maybe it's the wrong focus, there are likely other fishes to fry
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<mangix> yeha
<mangix> maybe there's a way to remove tools/qemu and replace it with something else
<mangix> git grep qemu-image
<aparcar[m]> I'd just remove the whole thing and require users to convert it themselfs
<mangix> meh I don't care enough for it. I don't use x86 QEMU images
<aparcar[m]> neither...
<mangix> most important issue is this: https://github.com/openwrt/packages/issues/14144
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<aparcar[m]> I'll ping him, I estimate he's back in 2h
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<mangix> who?
<aparcar[m]> dango
<mangix> he already reported the issue
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<aparcar[m]> oh I thoughts gingerneut did
<aparcar[m]> 🍿
<mangix> this code looks implemented and abandoned
<mangix> ugh
<mangix> last touched 2016
<aparcar[m]> mangix: I upated opkg.git, can you please give it a test run?
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<mangix> hmm?
<KGB-1> https://tests.reproducible-builds.org/openwrt/openwrt_kirkwood.html has been updated. (100.0% images and 97.5% packages reproducible in our current test framework.)
<mangix> which packages are not reproducible?
<mangix> ah, i have to search for unreproducible
<owrt-1907-builds> build #240 of ramips/rt3883 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/ramips%2Frt3883/builds/240
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<aparcar[m]> mangix: https://git.openwrt.org/?p=project/opkg-lede.git
<mangix> it looks like you're removing code
<owrt-1907-builds> build #239 of ar71xx/mikrotik is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/ar71xx%2Fmikrotik/builds/239
<aparcar[m]> mangix: excellent observation :)
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<mangix> what is there to test then?
<aparcar[m]> fair
<aparcar[m]> i need to go
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<owrt-1907-builds> build #243 of armvirt/32 is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/armvirt%2F32/builds/243
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<owrt-1907-builds> build #226 of ath25/generic is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/ath25%2Fgeneric/builds/226
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<owrt-1907-builds> build #180 of ath79/tiny is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/ath79%2Ftiny/builds/180
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<Tapper> Hi people. From the forums.
<Tapper> I am trying to port OpenWrt to the Wink Hub v1, which is an i.MX28-based board with a whole bunch of IoT radios attached via serial ports. The standard flash has updater_kernel and updater-root partitions intended for recovery and update purposes, which appears to be ideal for messing around with OpenWrt, but still keep the ability to boot back to a working OS.
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<Hauke> nbd: Could you please have a look at the changes to 300-mac80211-optimize-skb-resizing.patch in the mac80211 update: https://patchwork.ozlabs.org/project/openwrt/patch/20201201221950.32548-3-hauke@hauke-m.de/
<Hauke> I am not sure if this is correct
<Hauke> I think you fixed the problem Johannes found in a different way already
<Hauke> It would be ncie if you could send this patch upstream again
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<owrt-1907-builds> build #203 of mxs/generic is complete: Success [build successful] Build details are at http://buildbot.openwrt.org/openwrt-19.07/images/builders/mxs%2Fgeneric/builds/203
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<russell--> KanjiMonster: did you see this? https://github.com/openwrt/openwrt/pull/3616
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<aparcar[m]> rsalvaterra: I merged your kmod-lib-zstd patch
<rsalvaterra> aparcar[m]: I just noticed it, thanks! :)
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<rsalvaterra> Still trying to upstream my zram patch to allow disabling lzo, but I hit a snag with the ppc44x defconfig, which broke for some unfathomable reason.
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<aparcar[m]> good luck
<rsalvaterra> Heh… I'll try to reproduce it on my dog-slow iBook G4, eventually, when boredom hits hard.
<rsalvaterra> aparcar[m]: Functional? Zero. In terms of performance? Marginal, at best. Haven't measured.
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<aparcar[m]> okay than I don't bother ;P
<rsalvaterra> aparcar[m]: Probably more placebo than anything… but it's Gentoo-compliant. :P
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<ByteEnable> 19.7.04: Installing libpthread results in no actual library installed. Is there another step?
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<rsalvaterra> Hm… I don't use opkg in my builds… :/
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<swalker> updated openwrt/upstream, https://sdwalker.github.io/uscan/index.html
<aparcar[m]> fair
<rsalvaterra> I'm a bit weird, for sure… :P
<aparcar[m]> no worries
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<blocktrron> aparcar[m]: would've been nice if a decision on the 802.11b disable PR could have waited after the weekend
<blocktrron> In the end, WiFi interoperability specifically states that these rates are mandatory
<ByteEnable> musl libc faq says libpthread.a should exist but the package libpthread has nothing lib is empty.
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<blocktrron> I know this is only the standpoint of the alliance, however I greatly dislike the idea we ship the default configuration in a state where even modern stuff has trouble performing network discovery.
<ByteEnable> librt is empty as well. If I make musl on the host I get librt.a and libpthread.a .
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<jow> ByteEnable: it makes no sense to install static .a libraries on openwrt
<jow> why would you want that?
<ByteEnable> That is how is musl redirects apps to use its thread library.
<jow> no it doesn't
<ByteEnable> Why even include empty librt and libpthread as packages in openwrt.
<jow> because we also support compilation with glibc or uclibc, there librt and libpthread are separate
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<ByteEnable> From the musl faq: Why not just omit libm.a, libpthread.a, etc. entirely? POSIX says -lm, -lpthread, etc. are valid options to the compiler and conforming applications must use these options when they need the corresponding functionality, and the easiest way to comply with that requirement (and avoid breaking applications) is with empty .a files by those names.
<jow> correct
<jow> but we do not *compile* on target
<jow> hence no need to ship *.a libraries just to satisfy compile time flags
<ByteEnable> But why offer empty packages in openwrt?
<ByteEnable> Your defending brokenness.
<jow> so that packages can have the same DEPENDS:= regardless of whether they're built with glibc or musl systems
<ByteEnable> So you package empty ipk's for naught.
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<ByteEnable> I can gcc on target to compile apps.
<ByteEnable> *I can install
<jow> right
<jow> but it's not officially supported
<jow> and lib* ipk archives would not be the proper ones to ship *.a libraries since nothing uses it at runtime (they're only used for linking apps)
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<jow> lib*-dev packages would be the appropriate place, but OpenWrt does not support these
<ByteEnable> There is a package named gcc which says its supported no?
<jow> gcc is a feed package, maintained by the community
<jow> openwrt does not support on-target ocmpilation, there's no base-supported toolchain on target
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<ByteEnable> Okay. So then why package empty ipks?
<jow> so that packages that require librt or libpthread functionality which are built for systems using uclibc or glibc instead of musl can use the same DEPENDS:=
<jow> openwrt used to ship with uclibc by default, so librt and libpthread are actual libs there
<jow> a few targets still use uclibc
<ByteEnable> But musl is the default support for openwrt right?
<jow> for most, but not all targets
<jow> some targets still use uclibc
<ByteEnable> To get glibc you must do your compile right?
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<jow> yes, to get glibc you need to compile yourself
<ByteEnable> You are not making any sense. If openwrt default shipping build is with muscl and you don't include the .a files then why package empty ipks?
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<jow> because we want people to be able to compile with glibc without having to touch package Makegiles to manually add +libpthread to the respective DEPENDS:= lines of their Makefiles
<ByteEnable> The IPK in the package repo has nothing to do with when someone builds glibc.
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<jow> it has if you build with glibc and host your own package repos
<jow> also opkg is used during firmware compilation, so dependency resolution has to work there as well to produce proper images
<ByteEnable> If I go to software in luci and search for libpthread there is a package. You install the package. But the package is actually empty.
<jow> yes, for officla builds it is empty
<ByteEnable> So why package empty ipk's ?
<urjaman> you're just running around in these silly circles and i've kinda had it lol
<ByteEnable> Me too.
<urjaman> you were answered
<ByteEnable> Doesn't make sense for the end user.
<ByteEnable> You expect to get the .a files.
<jow> it's not an end user question
<jow> no
<jow> I would expect *.a files from *-dev packages (a concept which does not exist on openwrt)
<urjaman> it exists to satisfy dependencies, those dependencies exist to support other valid configurations, end of story
<ByteEnable> Only at build time on the host right?
<jow> no at run time on the target
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<urjaman> if you build a repo of glibc or uclibc-based ipks they will be needed runtime too (and contain .so files as i get it? like one would expect)
<jow> there would be multiple ways to chage that nowadays, we could move librt.so and libpthread.so into libc.ipk for glibc and ditch extra packages
<jow> or we could introduce conditional depends
<jow> but it is additional work for no gain
<jow> if your actual question is "how do I compile stuff on an musl target where some build system insists on linking with "-lpthread" or "-lrt" eventhough the corresponding apis are part of the default libc.so already, then use this: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/usr-bin-ld-cannot-find-lpthread/18404/3
<jow> but again, on-target compilation is not really supported. Not in the sense you would expect it from a Debian or CentOS or any other ordinary Linux distro
<jow> yes, there is a gcc package, but it is neither polished, nor tested, nor are all auxiliary utilities packaged that are typically needed to compile complex software pacakges
<jow> or header-files or development packages
<jow> and the empty librt and libpthread packages are placeholders for libc implementations where these libs are separate shared objects
<jow> motivation is that compiled packages always have the same dependency specs if they use rt or thread symbols, regardless of whether the crt happens to contain these symbols in the core or in extra shared objects
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<ldir-> happy happy happy happy
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<aparcar[m]> ldir-: happy?
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<aparcar[m]> blocktrron: okay I'll give it more time next time
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<ldir-> trying to counteract the preceding hour's 'fun'
<aparcar[m]> ldir-: elaborate
<aparcar[m]> jow: plans to publish ucode?
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<jow> aparcar[m]: once it meets my quality expectations
<jow> still finding bugs
<aparcar[m]> is it worth to add a RC to openwrt.git so people start tinkering with it?
<Borromini> jow: i am running into what seems to be a firewall bug with PPPoE like documented here: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/iptables-uses-wrong-interface-on-boot/74757
<Borromini> from the moment i switched my modem to passthrough and had OpenWrt handle the PPPoE connection DNS somehow works but lan to wan traffic does not (e.g. can resolve websites but not ping or visit them)
<Borromini> wondering if there's extra stuff i can try to find out what goes wrong where. a firewall reload fixes things.
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<jow> aparcar[m]: I think I'll merge it next week alomng with firewall4, so people can play with it
<jow> Borromini: that forum post sounds weird
<jow> Borromini: why should the firewall use `wan` (I assume a DSA port) instead of `pppoe-wan` if the connection is PPPoE
<jow> Borromini: anyhow, please start with providing the contents of /var/run/fw3.state in broken and working state
<jow> Borromini: along with the output of "ifstatus wan"
<Borromini> jow: ok. i'll reproduce and get back to you. is that ok?
<Borromini> it's mt7621, so dsa yes.
<jow> sure. I assume the regression got introduced with DSA
<jow> I vaguely remember that we have some "interpret value as logical network, then netdev" logic somewhere
<Borromini> ok :)
<jow> since with DSA "wan" is both a logical network and a Linux network device, things might get confused on early boot when PPPoE is not yet up
<jow> could you also try renaming your wan in /etc/config/network to something like "wan2" or "internet" (don't forgot to adjust option/list network wan in /e/c/firewall too)
<jow> and see if the issue still occurs then
<Borromini> will do.
<jow> actually I think its clear
<jow> on boot, when pppoe is not yet up, ifstatus wan will likely report no l3_device and (DSA) "wan" as (l2_)device
<jow> so fw3 will use that
<jow> however, when PPPoE eventually comes up, it should trigger /etc/hotplug.d/iface/20-firewall which should then restart fw3
<jow> I suggest to add some debugging to /etc/hotplug.d/iface/20-firewall as well
<jow> maybe we have a race there
<Borromini> ok. debugging as in removing the -q and /dev/null redirect?
<jow> yeah, and adding something like `env | logger -t hotplug-vars` to dump the event env vars to logread
<jow> to see what DEVICE, ACTION etc. are set to, ideally before the if condition filtering things out
<Borromini> https://paste.debian.net/1175869/ < like this then, with env at the very top?
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<jow> yes.
<jow> My hunch is that `fw3 network "$INTERFACE"` fails
<Borromini> ok, will do and let you know :). thanks a lot for the tips already.
<jow> if this is the case, you should see *no* `Reloading firewall due to ifup of wan (pppoe-wan)` in logread
<Borromini> alright. i've logged all this and will get back to you.
<Borromini> goodnight!
<jow> good night
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