<qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [new package] Rubén Berenguel's ports http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/cb4bdc4
<qi-commits> Xiangfu Liu: [imgv] MKAE_VARS is better http://qi-hw.com/p/openwrt-packages/f2346b6
<zear> article about nn on polish edition of linuxnews: http://linuxnews.pl/komputer-w-pelni-open-source/
<zear> there's a lot of hatred in the comments, as expected ;)
<wolfspraul> he
<wolfspraul> zear: can you give us some highlights?
<wolfspraul> zear: btw, the other day you asked about growth of community and I didn't answer before you left
<zear> they say there are cheaper netbooks with better hardware
<wolfspraul> so I think it's mixed
<wolfspraul> of course I am super happy about all the support
<wolfspraul> I mean it's scary actually
<wolfspraul> OpenWrt, Debian, JLiMe
<zear> and generally, blah blah, 320x240, slow cpu, no net, high price
<wolfspraul> also the copyleft hardware wiki keeps growing with what is important
<zear> and they also make references to openmoko's failure ;)
<zear> ah, great to hear that
<wolfspraul> and I do see very very respectable people join our community
<zear> that's good too
<wolfspraul> Marc Zonzon, Ruben, nebajoth, Jirka, etc.
<wolfspraul> just look what they contribute, it'a amazing
<zear> btw, do all the ports need to be incorporated in the openwrt?
<wolfspraul> of course we are working on that
<wolfspraul> 'need to be' I don't know
<zear> i really don't like how owrt forces me to modify the makefiles to be able to compile them
<wolfspraul> but I think it would be cool to make them more accessible
<zear> but i'd like to have a standalone toolchain i can just compile apps with
<zear> if i had something like that, i'd port all the dingux games/emulators right away
<larsc> they don't need to be, but it's nice to have, because everybody can easyly build the package themself then
<wolfspraul> now we have Milkymist One coming up, a big challenge
<wolfspraul> people need to get the whole FPGA thing
<wolfspraul> how it fits together in the long run
<larsc> and it can be part of the standard distro
<wolfspraul> we need to survive to make it to Ya NanoNote
<zear> there problem with incorporating everything into owrt is, a lot of stuff (from dingux, at least) are forks and crude hacks of the vanilla sources
<zear> and they are one-time-only ports
<wolfspraul> zear: so bottom line, please continue supporting us
<wolfspraul> every tiny bit helps
<zear> with no hope for updates by merging them with vanilla sources
<wolfspraul> in return we continue to spend our last pennies to open up more :-)
<zear> :D
<wolfspraul> but it's a fun ride, really
<wolfspraul> I learn so much
<zear> i hope it's not a financial suicide
<wolfspraul> I mean I really do believe in the strength of free software.
<wolfspraul> so those comments - to me all irrelevant
<wolfspraul> they all just compare HW specs
<wolfspraul> so what
<zear> yeah, but we also need the popularity
<wolfspraul> we have, today, 2.6.32 running
<zear> people who write the articles need to understand NN is not a full feature laptop
<wolfspraul> 2.6.34 is coming to an image very soon
<wolfspraul> that is unbelievable
<zear> we should make that clear on the wiki (if we didn't do it already)
<wolfspraul> we have the picture on the hand now
<zear> because every time i see an article it says "a mini laptop"
<wolfspraul> at least the size proportions should be clear now
<zear> and people expect it to run windows with crysis
<zear> and when they hear it's a mipsel linux thing, they start to complain
<wolfspraul> so to those guys that say it only has 32 MB ram, or lacking USB host etc. I say I am running 2.6.32 in my image today, and 2.6.34 is almost in an image (lars has it running of course)
<zear> because they expected windows
<wolfspraul> that is innovation in this project
<wolfspraul> not whether we are the first to have 1ghz
<zear> i don't want it to have 1ghz
<zear> i want it to be the way it is now - a tiny pc with limited usage
<wolfspraul> he
<wolfspraul> I think we can get a lot more out of it
<zear> i can run a dictionary and a music player on it, and i'm very happy with that
<wolfspraul> of course the portability will stay
<wolfspraul> 126g
<zear> we just need to get wikireader and i'll be in heaven )
<zear> *:)
<wolfspraul> we will
<wolfspraul> there are many good things in motion, really I think software is coming along nicely
<wolfspraul> zear: what do you think?
<zear> and yeah, ya really needs a way of wireless communication
<wolfspraul> all those people that help porting apps, really good support from openwrt, 2.6.34 work
<zear> well,i think there is a progress with the software, but it's not a revolution
<zear> we need a good standalone toolchain so people can start porting stuff
<wolfspraul> fair enough, but I think it will continue like this
<wolfspraul> zear: I think OpenWrt can create an 'SDK' never tried it though
<wolfspraul> is that a stand-alone toolchain?
<zear> by a stand-alone toolchain i mean a toolchain with a set of basic libs you can put into /opt, export the PATH variable and start compiling
<zear> with no need for Makefile hacks ;)
<wolfspraul> zear: can you post a comment in Polish to that site just telling them what you think of it as an owner and that they can buy from tuxbrain.com in the EU?
<zear> just ./configure --host=mipsel-linux --target=mipsel-linux and you're done
<zear> yes, i posted it already
<wolfspraul> oh, great
<wolfspraul> thanks a lot
<zear> though it needs to be accepted by the mods, as i just registered
<wolfspraul> we should not over-promise
<wolfspraul> much better to lower expectations to zero
<wolfspraul> it's really only for people that are quite technical today, like the original theregister post said a 'dedicated vi device'
<zear> i explained in that post that nanonote is more of a PIM/notepad/music player/dictionary than a full feature laptop
<larsc> zear: if you need makefile hacks, the makefile is broken anyway ;)
<wolfspraul> I can stand behind that any day. it is a dedicated vi device. :-) and a good one
<zear> and also mentioned it is binary compatible with dingoo a320, so can run all the games/emus for that platform
<wolfspraul> zear: have you ever tried to download and build the openwrt sources?
<zear> yes, i have it ready on my hdd
<larsc> zear: projects which use autotools should work out of the box btw.
<wolfspraul> I see this 'SDK' option in menuconfig, not sure what it is but maybe it's what you want?
<zear> though i never managed to successfully build anything with it
<zear> because the toolchain is didived into two different, unstandard dirs
<zear> and ./configure can't find the libs, etc
<zear> *divided
<zear> btw, more and more people from the dingoo community get their nanonotes
<wolfspraul> nice
<zear> we have about 8-10 people with nn in dingoo community now
<wolfspraul> wow, happy to hear that
<wolfspraul> can you tell them about this IRC channel?
<wolfspraul> also the mailing list
<zear> yep, though they should be already aware of that
<zear> some of them are already
<zear> i mean, some of them already visit the irc
<zear> like darfgarf or xdpirate
<zear> or wejp :)
<kyak> zear: there is a thing, crosstool, from www.kegel.com/crosstool/. I've managed to create a toolchain to mipsel with it and successfully run the "hello world" on my linksys router
<kyak> so you could try that.. to avoid hacking openwrt makefiles
<zear> kyak, well, i can already use the dingux toolchain
<zear> and it produces working binaries
<kyak> isn't this what you want?
<zear> but i want the same set of libs that's in the owrt
<zear> i want exactly the same thing so there are no compatibility problems and programs compiled with it are optimized for nanonote's hardware
<kyak> i see, then you'll need to stick to openwrt anyway
<zear> well, it would be enough for the devs to maintain a standalone toolchain
<killi> I ordered my NN on friday, anyone know how long order processing takes? It is still pending:)
<larsc> where did you order?
<killi> sharism.cc
<xiangfu> killi: Hi I will ask other people in sharism.cc about your order. what is your email?  we can send email when we got some result.
<qwebirc49195> is there any way to stream music off the net to the nanonote (through usb or something)?
<kristianpaul> ERROR:HDLCompilers:26 - "../../../../cores/lm32/rtl/lm32_icache.v" line 101 unexpected token: '$clog2'
<kristianpaul> ops
<emeb> w00t - my nanonote has shipped.
<xdpirate> 07 Jun 2010 16:37:01 Oslo Shipment Released From Customs.
<xdpirate> finally, we've got progress!
<xdpirate> :P
<kristianpaul> :)
<xdpirate> What does qi-eggs do?
<xdpirate> qi-commits is pretty self-explainatory, but qi-eggs? =P
<jd823592> hello, i am looking for an open netbook/laptop (like touchbook) does anyone know about the choices i have?
<alextybob60> Hi
<alextybob60> i have a few problems with my computer
<alextybob60> problems written there ^^^^
<tuxbrain_away> mmm alex I have read well but your asking for suport for windows instalation on the copyleft hardware channel ?
<alextybob60> this the wrong place?
<tuxbrain> to be short yes
<alextybob60> shall i /part?
<tuxbrain> not you are wellcome to stay :) but don't expecte to be helped in that matters
<alextybob60> ok
<alextybob60> fair enough
<zedstar> that was fairly random
<tuxbrain> zedstar: yeah , I'm so sleppy than until your message I believe I has felt sleep on the keyboard having a a bizarre "lucid dream" (lucid dream->dreams that you know you are dreaming)
<tuxbrain> I think I better go to search a real dream at my loved bed and pillow, space bar is not so comfortable
<zedstar> tuxbrain lol
<DocScrutinizer> wolfspraul: you pinged me
<wolfspraul> DocScrutinizer: hah, yes
<wolfspraul> how are you?
<wolfspraul> we didn't chat in a while
<DocScrutinizer> yesterday sick, today in foul mood - but nvm
<DocScrutinizer> quite busy with a few silly projects for N900
<wolfspraul> well that's nice
<DocScrutinizer> how's Qi, and how are you?
<wolfspraul> things are moving
<wolfspraul> Ben NanoNote is selling
<wolfspraul> software improving
<DocScrutinizer> :-)
<wolfspraul> SAKC is slow but steady, once I have a board there I will make sure to get you one
<wolfspraul> the other fpga-based computer we are working on is also moving, Milkymist One
<wolfspraul> that's the link I wanted to send you
<wolfspraul> DocScrutinizer: we have some pretty cool documentation about the SMT process now, see http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Milkymist_One_SMT/DIP_Process_Flow
<wolfspraul> just wanted to show you
<DocScrutinizer> aah, fine :)
<emeb> wolfspraul: saw the SAKC stuff the other day. I've got something similar for beagle: http://members.cox.net/ebrombaugh1/embedded/beagle/beagle_fpga.html
<wolfspraul> nice, beautiful work, congratulations!
<wolfspraul> I fully share your motivation, SDR work etc.
<wolfspraul> great!
<emeb> thanks. FPGAs don't get enough love from hobbyists
<wolfspraul> there are too few free software fpga projects, we have to change it
<emeb> seems a lot of OSS types rebel against the closed FPGA tools full stop.
<wolfspraul> hmm
<wolfspraul> some dp
<wolfspraul> some do
<wolfspraul> I wouldn't spend a second of thought on that.
<emeb> Doesn't bother me in the least.
<wolfspraul> let the proprietary silicon under them grow
<wolfspraul> emeb: do you know the Milkymist project?
<emeb> Got it up on the browser as we speak.
<wolfspraul> it's a GPL licensed SoC around a LatticeMico32 core
<emeb> Hmm - text says Spartan6?
<wolfspraul> yes
<wolfspraul> emeb: also the Elphel cameras, do you know those? used for Google book scanning and street view
<emeb> Was looking at the Elphel stuff the other day.
<wolfspraul> but the important thing is all code in the FPGA is GPL licensed, which is the stuff that talks to the CMOS/CCD sensor
<emeb> That's handy.
<wolfspraul> we are trying to combine all this free tech into consumer products - copyleft hardware
<wolfspraul> so far so good, moving :-)
<wolfspraul> still alive
<emeb> low-end FPGAs are cheap enough ($10 range) that they're quite practical for small projects
<wolfspraul> people are lining up 2 blocks for the iPad, we sell one by one, but it's fun
<emeb> I was interested that you've got such a wide parallel link between MCU <> FPGA on SAKC.
<emeb> Must help with fast comms between
<emeb> the two
<wolfspraul> he, I don't even know the details about that
<emeb> Ah - HW details not your bailiwick?
<wolfspraul> I try to keep the business running, so as soon as there is someone I trust I 'outsource' everything to that person.
<wolfspraul> plus I'm an ex-software guy
<wolfspraul> but on hardware, I consult with people like DocScrutinizer, or in the case of SAKC it's Carlos Camargo
<wolfspraul> if they say it's good, move forward, then I move forward
<wolfspraul> so far they haven't killed me yet
<emeb> Aha. So how's the business structured?
<wolfspraul> it's the only business in the world where all employees work for free and have to bring money each morning, together with their lunch packs
<wolfspraul> :-)
<emeb> Been there. :)
<wolfspraul> we are just a small team of people enthousiastic about the idea of making hardware that is really in line and tailored towards free software
<wolfspraul> and we try to build it bottom-up, i.e. making simple functioning products asap and selling them
<wolfspraul> so far we sold about 750-800 Ben NanoNote, for example
<emeb> Ah - you're behind the Nanonote?
<emeb> Just ordered one Fri - should get it Thurs if FedEx is to be believed.
<wolfspraul> nice
<wolfspraul> thank you!
<emeb> Looks like a nice upgrade to my old Agenda VR3
<wolfspraul> hopefully you like it, stop by in this channel and tell us
<emeb> Will do. Looks like there's a bit to learn about it which is the fun part for me...
<wolfspraul> yes, agreed
<wolfspraul> with your interest in fpgas, hopefully we can do more together in the future
<emeb> that sounds like fun.
<emeb> I've got lots of little projects over on that website, some with FPGAs, various audio things. Wide-ranging interests...
<wolfspraul> good I will check it
<emeb> Seems I need to drill down into the content on the qi-hardware site too.
<emeb> Well - nice chatting. I'll see you around...
<wolfspraul> please do, yes
<wolfspraul> I am thinking about a camera like Elphel, just leave the CPU out
<wolfspraul> so basically just CMOS sensor + Spartan-6
<emeb> That could work...
<wolfspraul> the stream it down via Ethernet
<wolfspraul> anyway, nice to chat with you too
<wolfspraul> emeb: do you have a blog, some rss/atom feed for our planet?
<emeb> wolfspraul: sorry - just that website.
<wolfspraul> ok, I will just add a new section 'free software FPGA projects' to  a wiki page, maybe http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Planet
<wolfspraul> have to collect these projects somewhere, maybe other lists already exist, but can't hurt
<wolfspraul> emeb: do you have a list?
<wolfspraul> GPL (or other FOSS) licensed FPGA projects?
<emeb> wolfspraul: honestly I haven't given much thought to the licensing on these projects. I suppose some sort of GPL would apply though.
<emeb> I probably ought to refresh all those projects with words to that effect & license details.
<emeb> But - to answer your question: Yes I can build a list for you.
<kristianpaul> oh you are suing gEDA :)
<kristianpaul> s/suing/using
<emeb> kristianpaul: yes
<kristianpaul> cheers
<kristianpaul> few people use it
<kristianpaul> at least people i know use such us tolls
<emeb> Works well for my purposes. Keeps getting better.
<kristianpaul> s/tolls/tools
<emeb> I suppose if one were doing large multi-layer boards it might not be ideal though.
<kristianpaul> i was about to ask that
<emeb> Works well for 2 layers. 4 layers is probably OK too.
<emeb> but I've not tried 4. For my day job though I've worked on boards that were 10+ layers and I don't think it would work well for that.
<kristianpaul> what you think about kicad?
<emeb> I've never used it.
<kristianpaul> ok
<emeb> gotta go - nice chatting...
<kristianpaul> ok bye
<kristianpaul> btw the list will nice
<wolfspraul> kristianpaul: can you help start a 'free software FPGA projects' list in our wiki?
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: hey sure
<kristianpaul> wait
<wolfspraul> should we have a new page for that or add it to an existing page?
<kristianpaul> new i think
<kristianpaul> if there is no one yet?
<wolfspraul> I think with the various FPGA projects coming up such a list will make more and more sense.
<wolfspraul> I doubt it
<wolfspraul> we have some SAKC pages
<kristianpaul> there is need for FPGA projects indeed
<wolfspraul> kristianpaul: nice
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: http://www.gaisler.com/cms/
<wolfspraul> ah yes, the LEON CPUs, nice
<kristianpaul> :)
<kristianpaul> i just ordered 10 Hoperf modules .D
<kristianpaul> have plans to get telemetry for trafic lighs in his town
<wolfspraul> kristianpaul: wow nice!
<wolfspraul> I am very interested in those modules
<kristianpaul> me too
<wolfspraul> where did you order them? how much do you pay for shipping? which ones exactly do you order?
<wolfspraul> how do you plan to hook them up?
<wolfspraul> which software stack?
<wolfspraul> we need to talk about it at Campus Party
<kristianpaul> i order 10 x RFM12B-433S1 433MHZ band Fsk transceiver module SMD(S1) ROHS
<wolfspraul> I really want to get them into the Ya NanoNote - SlowFi
<kristianpaul> 2 x H28 SMD IC H28 ROHS
<kristianpaul> shipping was 35usd DHL
<wolfspraul> ouch
<wolfspraul> more than the modules
<kristianpaul> i order from DHL
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: yes but cheaper that sparkfunb
<kristianpaul> moudles costs 25
<kristianpaul> any ay i cheap
<kristianpaul> s/ay/way
<kristianpaul> s/i/is
<kristianpaul> sofware stucj dont know yet
<kristianpaul> i saw some examples for pics microcontrolers wich i have acess to
<kristianpaul> here atmel is kinf expensive
<kristianpaul> hook as the examples said
<kristianpaul> i also need buy 10 pics 18F2250 and batteries
<kristianpaul> well i need more stuff
<kristianpaul> the idea is to have 10 of this units working
<kristianpaul> ans see how interect
<wolfspraul> what do you hook them up to?
<wolfspraul> which CPU?
<wolfspraul> or microcontroller?
<kristianpaul> PIC18F2550 from Microchhip
<kristianpaul> i plan hook to the nano as soon i assemled it
<kristianpaul> i also plan get GPS cordenates of the town
<kristianpaul> wich finally i make gps work :)
<kristianpaul> not wich nano yet, i still need solve some wire up issues
<kristianpaul> but is close
<kristianpaul> at least i know the GPS works and well up to 2 hrs
<wolfspraul> oh nice
<wolfspraul> so one sec
<wolfspraul> you hook up GPS to Ben NanoNote?
<wolfspraul> that I knew already, and it's fantastic!
<wolfspraul> how about HopeRF? also hook up to NanoNote?
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: i did but still havinf problems with my custom wire up
<kristianpaul> i also was fixing the reprap with no luck so i stoped with the nano, but i know time is getting short i need fixs lots things here
<kristianpaul> wolfspraul: no directly
<kristianpaul> well yday were discussing here with lars_ about free gpio pins
<wolfspraul> no rush, push the NanoNote back, we get things done step by step and cparty preparations are more important I understand
<wolfspraul> I will try to visit hoperf again, maybe next week
<kristianpaul> but i think is better use a small MCU and uart if this get enought tested
<wolfspraul> before I come down to Colombia
<wolfspraul> if you have questions, I can ask. if you need samples, I can buy and bring with me.
<kristianpaul> i need 10 pics18F2250 cheap :)
<kristianpaul> or avr whateevr i need 10
<kristianpaul> thats my next task
<kristianpaul> about RF
<kristianpaul> the last is solar power
<kristianpaul> i saw some modlues in sparkfun
<kristianpaul> so i can place the modules and feed it for free
<wolfspraul> can the hoperf modules be hooked up with uart?
<wolfspraul> I thought it's spi only
<kristianpaul> yes
<kristianpaul> thats why a small MCU need to that work
<kristianpaul> in case hoperf could be hookup with the nanonote
<wolfspraul> ah I see
<kristianpaul> my bet is
<wolfspraul> well you know the details best, if I can help you with sourcing I would love to do that
<wolfspraul> email me what you need, I can try
<kristianpaul> hoperf + pic (low low powe consuption) + gpio + ad + solar power
<kristianpaul> s/ad/ADC
<wolfspraul> ad = ?
<wolfspraul> what is this device good for?
<kristianpaul> wich?
<wolfspraul> hoperf+pic+gpio+adc+solar
<kristianpaul> telemetry i bet at fiest
<kristianpaul> "SMS" passing
<kristianpaul> i want for remote monitoring of traffic light system
<kristianpaul> but i  general text messaging will based
<kristianpaul> later i can see what other stacks fit
<kristianpaul> but if can broadcast test will be nice
<kristianpaul> even more if "this device" will be apart from the other and so on
<kristianpaul> like mesh but i dont know if will work
<kristianpaul> well i'm off bed
<kristianpaul> gn8 al
<kristianpaul> all
<wolfspraul> 'night
<rafa_> hello, short question geeks.. :
<rafa_> is there some /sys/.../file to suspend the whole nn or to turn it off?
<wolfspraul> rafa_: I think there is, but don't know which one...
<wolfspraul> both suspend and turn off I think
<rafa_> wolfspraul: I want to config power on/off button in Jlime to suspend perhaps
<rafa_> wolfspraul: btw, jlime distro is starting to look nice ;)
<rafa_> no GUI yet, but main rootfs is already configured (networking, opkg, etc)
<DocScrutinizer> ohnoes, still the notorious opkg? ;-P
<wolfspraul> rafa_: nice
<rafa_> DocScrutinizer: yeah, we use it in Jlime
<DocScrutinizer> X-D
<rafa_> you would like to use apt-get ?
<DocScrutinizer> I feel it's somewhat saner
<DocScrutinizer> though I not really got any idea about it
<rafa_> try debian in nn and run apt-get install quake
<rafa_> :)
<rafa_> your system will freeze ;)
<DocScrutinizer> hmm, why that?
<rafa_> nn has 32 MB of ram
<DocScrutinizer> apt/cache overflow?
<DocScrutinizer> mhm
<rafa_> the package systems need huge amount of ram to work
<DocScrutinizer> no swap?
<rafa_> you can add 32 or 64MB of swap.. but you will feel the same
<DocScrutinizer> sorry no NN here
<DocScrutinizer> opkg upgrade had similar problems iirc
<rafa_> ipk was born because the problems with rpm/apt in systems with few ram