<zear>
there's a lot of hatred in the comments, as expected ;)
<wolfspraul>
he
<wolfspraul>
zear: can you give us some highlights?
<wolfspraul>
zear: btw, the other day you asked about growth of community and I didn't answer before you left
<zear>
they say there are cheaper netbooks with better hardware
<wolfspraul>
so I think it's mixed
<wolfspraul>
of course I am super happy about all the support
<wolfspraul>
I mean it's scary actually
<wolfspraul>
OpenWrt, Debian, JLiMe
<zear>
and generally, blah blah, 320x240, slow cpu, no net, high price
<wolfspraul>
also the copyleft hardware wiki keeps growing with what is important
<zear>
and they also make references to openmoko's failure ;)
<zear>
ah, great to hear that
<wolfspraul>
and I do see very very respectable people join our community
<zear>
that's good too
<wolfspraul>
Marc Zonzon, Ruben, nebajoth, Jirka, etc.
<wolfspraul>
just look what they contribute, it'a amazing
<zear>
btw, do all the ports need to be incorporated in the openwrt?
<wolfspraul>
of course we are working on that
<wolfspraul>
'need to be' I don't know
<zear>
i really don't like how owrt forces me to modify the makefiles to be able to compile them
<wolfspraul>
but I think it would be cool to make them more accessible
<zear>
but i'd like to have a standalone toolchain i can just compile apps with
<zear>
if i had something like that, i'd port all the dingux games/emulators right away
<larsc>
they don't need to be, but it's nice to have, because everybody can easyly build the package themself then
<wolfspraul>
now we have Milkymist One coming up, a big challenge
<wolfspraul>
people need to get the whole FPGA thing
<wolfspraul>
how it fits together in the long run
<larsc>
and it can be part of the standard distro
<wolfspraul>
we need to survive to make it to Ya NanoNote
<zear>
there problem with incorporating everything into owrt is, a lot of stuff (from dingux, at least) are forks and crude hacks of the vanilla sources
<zear>
and they are one-time-only ports
<wolfspraul>
zear: so bottom line, please continue supporting us
<wolfspraul>
every tiny bit helps
<zear>
with no hope for updates by merging them with vanilla sources
<wolfspraul>
in return we continue to spend our last pennies to open up more :-)
<zear>
:D
<wolfspraul>
but it's a fun ride, really
<wolfspraul>
I learn so much
<zear>
i hope it's not a financial suicide
<wolfspraul>
I mean I really do believe in the strength of free software.
<wolfspraul>
so those comments - to me all irrelevant
<wolfspraul>
they all just compare HW specs
<wolfspraul>
so what
<zear>
yeah, but we also need the popularity
<wolfspraul>
we have, today, 2.6.32 running
<zear>
people who write the articles need to understand NN is not a full feature laptop
<wolfspraul>
2.6.34 is coming to an image very soon
<wolfspraul>
that is unbelievable
<zear>
we should make that clear on the wiki (if we didn't do it already)
<wolfspraul>
we have the picture on the hand now
<zear>
because every time i see an article it says "a mini laptop"
<wolfspraul>
at least the size proportions should be clear now
<zear>
and people expect it to run windows with crysis
<zear>
and when they hear it's a mipsel linux thing, they start to complain
<wolfspraul>
so to those guys that say it only has 32 MB ram, or lacking USB host etc. I say I am running 2.6.32 in my image today, and 2.6.34 is almost in an image (lars has it running of course)
<zear>
because they expected windows
<wolfspraul>
that is innovation in this project
<wolfspraul>
not whether we are the first to have 1ghz
<zear>
i don't want it to have 1ghz
<zear>
i want it to be the way it is now - a tiny pc with limited usage
<wolfspraul>
he
<wolfspraul>
I think we can get a lot more out of it
<zear>
i can run a dictionary and a music player on it, and i'm very happy with that
<wolfspraul>
of course the portability will stay
<wolfspraul>
126g
<zear>
we just need to get wikireader and i'll be in heaven )
<zear>
*:)
<wolfspraul>
we will
<wolfspraul>
there are many good things in motion, really I think software is coming along nicely
<wolfspraul>
zear: what do you think?
<zear>
and yeah, ya really needs a way of wireless communication
<wolfspraul>
all those people that help porting apps, really good support from openwrt, 2.6.34 work
<zear>
well,i think there is a progress with the software, but it's not a revolution
<zear>
we need a good standalone toolchain so people can start porting stuff
<wolfspraul>
fair enough, but I think it will continue like this
<wolfspraul>
zear: I think OpenWrt can create an 'SDK' never tried it though
<wolfspraul>
is that a stand-alone toolchain?
<zear>
by a stand-alone toolchain i mean a toolchain with a set of basic libs you can put into /opt, export the PATH variable and start compiling
<zear>
with no need for Makefile hacks ;)
<wolfspraul>
zear: can you post a comment in Polish to that site just telling them what you think of it as an owner and that they can buy from tuxbrain.com in the EU?
<zear>
just ./configure --host=mipsel-linux --target=mipsel-linux and you're done
<zear>
yes, i posted it already
<wolfspraul>
oh, great
<wolfspraul>
thanks a lot
<zear>
though it needs to be accepted by the mods, as i just registered
<wolfspraul>
we should not over-promise
<wolfspraul>
much better to lower expectations to zero
<wolfspraul>
it's really only for people that are quite technical today, like the original theregister post said a 'dedicated vi device'
<zear>
i explained in that post that nanonote is more of a PIM/notepad/music player/dictionary than a full feature laptop
<larsc>
zear: if you need makefile hacks, the makefile is broken anyway ;)
<wolfspraul>
I can stand behind that any day. it is a dedicated vi device. :-) and a good one
<zear>
and also mentioned it is binary compatible with dingoo a320, so can run all the games/emus for that platform
<wolfspraul>
zear: have you ever tried to download and build the openwrt sources?
<zear>
yes, i have it ready on my hdd
<larsc>
zear: projects which use autotools should work out of the box btw.
<wolfspraul>
I see this 'SDK' option in menuconfig, not sure what it is but maybe it's what you want?
<zear>
though i never managed to successfully build anything with it
<zear>
because the toolchain is didived into two different, unstandard dirs
<zear>
and ./configure can't find the libs, etc
<zear>
*divided
<zear>
btw, more and more people from the dingoo community get their nanonotes
<wolfspraul>
nice
<zear>
we have about 8-10 people with nn in dingoo community now
<wolfspraul>
wow, happy to hear that
<wolfspraul>
can you tell them about this IRC channel?
<wolfspraul>
also the mailing list
<zear>
yep, though they should be already aware of that
<zear>
some of them are already
<zear>
i mean, some of them already visit the irc
<zear>
like darfgarf or xdpirate
<zear>
or wejp :)
<kyak>
zear: there is a thing, crosstool, from www.kegel.com/crosstool/. I've managed to create a toolchain to mipsel with it and successfully run the "hello world" on my linksys router
<kyak>
so you could try that.. to avoid hacking openwrt makefiles
<zear>
kyak, well, i can already use the dingux toolchain
<zear>
and it produces working binaries
<kyak>
isn't this what you want?
<zear>
but i want the same set of libs that's in the owrt
<zear>
i want exactly the same thing so there are no compatibility problems and programs compiled with it are optimized for nanonote's hardware
<kyak>
i see, then you'll need to stick to openwrt anyway
<zear>
well, it would be enough for the devs to maintain a standalone toolchain
<killi>
I ordered my NN on friday, anyone know how long order processing takes? It is still pending:)
<larsc>
where did you order?
<killi>
sharism.cc
<xiangfu>
killi: Hi I will ask other people in sharism.cc about your order. what is your email?  we can send email when we got some result.
<qwebirc49195>
is there any way to stream music off the net to the nanonote (through usb or something)?
<kristianpaul>
ERROR:HDLCompilers:26 - "../../../../cores/lm32/rtl/lm32_icache.v" line 101 unexpected token: '$clog2'
<kristianpaul>
ops
<emeb>
w00t - my nanonote has shipped.
<xdpirate>
07 Jun 2010 16:37:01 Oslo Shipment Released From Customs.
<xdpirate>
finally, we've got progress!
<xdpirate>
:P
<kristianpaul>
:)
<xdpirate>
What does qi-eggs do?
<xdpirate>
qi-commits is pretty self-explainatory, but qi-eggs? =P
<jd823592>
hello, i am looking for an open netbook/laptop (like touchbook) does anyone know about the choices i have?
<alextybob60>
Hi
<alextybob60>
i have a few problems with my computer
<tuxbrain_away>
mmm alex I have read well but your asking for suport for windows instalation on the copyleft hardware channel ?
<alextybob60>
this the wrong place?
<tuxbrain>
to be short yes
<alextybob60>
shall i /part?
<tuxbrain>
not you are wellcome to stay :) but don't expecte to be helped in that matters
<alextybob60>
ok
<alextybob60>
fair enough
<zedstar>
that was fairly random
<tuxbrain>
zedstar: yeah , I'm so sleppy than until your message I believe I has felt sleep on the keyboard having a a bizarre "lucid dream" (lucid dream->dreams that you know you are dreaming)
<tuxbrain>
I think I better go to search a real dream at my loved bed and pillow, space bar is not so comfortable
<zedstar>
tuxbrain lol
<DocScrutinizer>
wolfspraul: you pinged me
<wolfspraul>
DocScrutinizer: hah, yes
<wolfspraul>
how are you?
<wolfspraul>
we didn't chat in a while
<DocScrutinizer>
yesterday sick, today in foul mood - but nvm
<DocScrutinizer>
quite busy with a few silly projects for N900
<wolfspraul>
well that's nice
<DocScrutinizer>
how's Qi, and how are you?
<wolfspraul>
things are moving
<wolfspraul>
Ben NanoNote is selling
<wolfspraul>
software improving
<DocScrutinizer>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
SAKC is slow but steady, once I have a board there I will make sure to get you one
<wolfspraul>
the other fpga-based computer we are working on is also moving, Milkymist One
<wolfspraul>
I fully share your motivation, SDR work etc.
<wolfspraul>
great!
<emeb>
thanks. FPGAs don't get enough love from hobbyists
<wolfspraul>
there are too few free software fpga projects, we have to change it
<emeb>
seems a lot of OSS types rebel against the closed FPGA tools full stop.
<wolfspraul>
hmm
<wolfspraul>
some dp
<wolfspraul>
some do
<wolfspraul>
I wouldn't spend a second of thought on that.
<emeb>
Doesn't bother me in the least.
<wolfspraul>
let the proprietary silicon under them grow
<wolfspraul>
emeb: do you know the Milkymist project?
<emeb>
Got it up on the browser as we speak.
<wolfspraul>
it's a GPL licensed SoC around a LatticeMico32 core
<emeb>
Hmm - text says Spartan6?
<wolfspraul>
yes
<wolfspraul>
emeb: also the Elphel cameras, do you know those? used for Google book scanning and street view
<emeb>
Was looking at the Elphel stuff the other day.
<wolfspraul>
but the important thing is all code in the FPGA is GPL licensed, which is the stuff that talks to the CMOS/CCD sensor
<emeb>
That's handy.
<wolfspraul>
we are trying to combine all this free tech into consumer products - copyleft hardware
<wolfspraul>
so far so good, moving :-)
<wolfspraul>
still alive
<emeb>
low-end FPGAs are cheap enough ($10 range) that they're quite practical for small projects
<wolfspraul>
people are lining up 2 blocks for the iPad, we sell one by one, but it's fun
<emeb>
I was interested that you've got such a wide parallel link between MCU <> FPGA on SAKC.
<emeb>
Must help with fast comms between
<emeb>
the two
<wolfspraul>
he, I don't even know the details about that
<emeb>
Ah - HW details not your bailiwick?
<wolfspraul>
I try to keep the business running, so as soon as there is someone I trust I 'outsource' everything to that person.
<wolfspraul>
plus I'm an ex-software guy
<wolfspraul>
but on hardware, I consult with people like DocScrutinizer, or in the case of SAKC it's Carlos Camargo
<wolfspraul>
if they say it's good, move forward, then I move forward
<wolfspraul>
so far they haven't killed me yet
<emeb>
Aha. So how's the business structured?
<wolfspraul>
it's the only business in the world where all employees work for free and have to bring money each morning, together with their lunch packs
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<emeb>
Been there. :)
<wolfspraul>
we are just a small team of people enthousiastic about the idea of making hardware that is really in line and tailored towards free software
<wolfspraul>
and we try to build it bottom-up, i.e. making simple functioning products asap and selling them
<wolfspraul>
so far we sold about 750-800 Ben NanoNote, for example
<emeb>
Ah - you're behind the Nanonote?
<emeb>
Just ordered one Fri - should get it Thurs if FedEx is to be believed.
<wolfspraul>
nice
<wolfspraul>
thank you!
<emeb>
Looks like a nice upgrade to my old Agenda VR3
<wolfspraul>
hopefully you like it, stop by in this channel and tell us
<emeb>
Will do. Looks like there's a bit to learn about it which is the fun part for me...
<wolfspraul>
yes, agreed
<wolfspraul>
with your interest in fpgas, hopefully we can do more together in the future
<emeb>
that sounds like fun.
<emeb>
I've got lots of little projects over on that website, some with FPGAs, various audio things. Wide-ranging interests...
<wolfspraul>
good I will check it
<emeb>
Seems I need to drill down into the content on the qi-hardware site too.
<emeb>
Well - nice chatting. I'll see you around...
<wolfspraul>
please do, yes
<wolfspraul>
I am thinking about a camera like Elphel, just leave the CPU out
<wolfspraul>
so basically just CMOS sensor + Spartan-6
<emeb>
That could work...
<wolfspraul>
the stream it down via Ethernet
<wolfspraul>
anyway, nice to chat with you too
<wolfspraul>
emeb: do you have a blog, some rss/atom feed for our planet?