<eharrington>
testing 123, not seeing any talk, is this working?
<zear>
it is :)
<eharrington>
thank-you, thought I was confused with x-chat
<nebajoth>
no, you were confused by LURKING
<nebajoth>
SHHH EVERYONE
<zear>
;)
<zear>
damn it, stupid freerunner not receiving text messages
<zear>
just when i expect a very important sms
<eharrington>
;-) so if logged on, but not saying anything is lurking? looks like 51 users and no talk, hmmm...
<nebajoth>
:O
<zear>
;D
<eharrington>
ok, 49...
<nebajoth>
one is a bot
<nebajoth>
48
<nebajoth>
are you including ChanServ?
<nebajoth>
47
<nebajoth>
we can get this down to 0
<nebajoth>
lets dooo it
<eharrington>
anyone get a sd larger than 2gb booting yet, I have 2 8gb's I want to load up some images
<eharrington>
put debian on a 2 gb, but it's boring, looking at jlime next
<nebajoth>
how is it boring?
<nebajoth>
you can do anything with it
<zear>
yeah, you can't, really ;)
<nebajoth>
what
<eharrington>
I know, sorry, I run ubuntu 10.04 normally
<nebajoth>
everything I've wanted to do
<nebajoth>
I've done
<nebajoth>
I absolutely love debian on this thing
<eharrington>
just intrigued by the excellent jlime demo video
<zear>
yeah, it's a nice slogan, but obviously nanonote needs some dedicated graphical programs because currently it sucks :D
<nebajoth>
that's not jlime, that's gmu
<zear>
software wise
<nebajoth>
what's a nice slogan?
<zear>
the "you can do anything with it"
<zear>
yeah, if i have 3 years to write a program from scratch ;)
<nebajoth>
how on earth
<nebajoth>
is that different between jlime and debian?
<nebajoth>
that's a hardware limitation boyo
<zear>
probably not
<zear>
no, it's not hardware limitation
<nebajoth>
yes
<zear>
it's the lack of programmers ;)
<nebajoth>
screen size
<nebajoth>
total hardware limitation in terms of running graphical apps that have already been written
<zear>
it's the lack of software for 320x240
<nebajoth>
haha
<nebajoth>
no
<zear>
yea
<nebajoth>
its the 320x240 non-standard hardware
<zear>
X11 doesn't work well with 320x240, and there aren't many non-game sdl applications
<nebajoth>
exactly
<zear>
i tested gpe today
<zear>
hoped that if it was designed to run in 240x320, it's gonna be good on 320x240
<zear>
but it's not
<zear>
it's terrible
<nebajoth>
that's too bad
<nebajoth>
I have no personal interest in X anyway
<nebajoth>
but it would embiggen the audience
<zear>
the guys were like "hey, let's make some big ass buttons and bars, because we have a plenty of room for other stuff in the bottom of the screen"
<zear>
well, we have not because we're not horizontal
<zear>
nebajoth, what do you think is the future then? besides cli
<zear>
qt?
<nebajoth>
why besides cli?
<zear>
because try to type something on nn's keyboard
<zear>
most of the stuff is either under red arrow or fn
<nebajoth>
the keyboard is more highly developed than the handheld-buttons-a-la-gameboy stuff
<nebajoth>
if you want that, get a pandora :D
<zear>
yeah, it's still not comforable to type on
<nebajoth>
it isn't, I agree
<zear>
and well.. in cli you have to type - and _ and |
<zear>
and /
<zear>
well, /'s not a problem :P
<nebajoth>
neither is | really
<nebajoth>
the only one I had problems with was -
<zear>
yeah
<nebajoth>
and I mapped that to capslock
<zear>
but _ and - are annoying
<zear>
well, i'm thinking about casual users
<nebajoth>
I can't imagine the unit will ever attract casual users
<nebajoth>
not without wifi
<nebajoth>
bluetooth
<zear>
nn needs some good gui apps badly
<nebajoth>
I don't see what purpose that would serve
<zear>
1) calendar/pim 2) dictionary
<nebajoth>
remind
<nebajoth>
rocks
<zear>
no, that's cli
<nebajoth>
precisely
<zear>
stardict is ok, but someone needs to remove the mouse cursor and optimize the keyboard navigation
<nebajoth>
man
<nebajoth>
who even uses dictionaries on handhelds?
<nebajoth>
is that a real use case?
<zear>
how about me?
<nebajoth>
what for?
<zear>
how about looking for words i don't remember?
<zear>
i'm not english native how you probably noticed
<nebajoth>
actually
<nebajoth>
I hadn't
<nebajoth>
ok, cross-language
<nebajoth>
dictionary
<nebajoth>
ok my view is that CLI isn't going away
<nebajoth>
but we CAN make it more attractive
<nebajoth>
put it in a framebuffer
<nebajoth>
maybe QT
<nebajoth>
for displaying images, movies, etc
<nebajoth>
but the CLI is the most pervasive input mechanism known to humanity
<nebajoth>
it doesn't just underpin our operating systems
<nebajoth>
the url bar is a command line
<zear>
yes it is, but only if you have a full keyboard
<nebajoth>
and google search is a command line
<zear>
it's really a pain in the ass to type anything with this keyboard
<nebajoth>
that's because the unit is tiny
<zear>
which isn't just standard ascii characters
<zear>
yes, but that means cli isn't very handy
<nebajoth>
gui is more limiting
<zear>
mc is fine
<nebajoth>
I'm fine with curses
<nebajoth>
I see no need for the overhead of X
<nebajoth>
framebuffer/curses
<zear>
not x, but sdl/qt whatever can run on the framebuffer
<nebajoth>
a highly stylized command line
<nebajoth>
I'm not interested in the qt widgets though
<zear>
so 1) calendar/pim 2) dictionary and i'm happy
<zear>
and 3) music player, but we have that already and it's amazing
<nebajoth>
I use cmus :D
<zear>
never heard of cmus
<nebajoth>
curses
<nebajoth>
vim style keybindings
<zear>
i could accept a pim in curses, though the console font is too big
<nebajoth>
fbterm
<zear>
and most of curses stuff won't fit
<nebajoth>
once we get the unfuzzied text
<nebajoth>
we may even get 80-char width terminal fonts readable
<zear>
that would be sweet
<nebajoth>
I was thinking about wrapping all the typical command line stuff
<nebajoth>
like ls
<nebajoth>
with a txr config
<nebajoth>
and outputting colorized 40-character wide info
<nebajoth>
perfectly optimized for the NN screen
<zear>
that could be cool as well
<zear>
gmenu2x is great for a gui, but it needs qwerty controls
<zear>
we have a sort of working calendar with dgclock
<zear>
though you can't assign any notes to it
<zear>
but i guess that's a good base for something bigger
<nebajoth>
the best part about using txr
<nebajoth>
is that you can leave the normal ls output, for example
<nebajoth>
for ssh connections from terminals with wider screens
<zear>
too bad i can't really help besides porting already existing apps, so all that's left for me is complaining
<zear>
but fixing the control method is beyond my knowledge
<zear>
txr looks cool
<rafa>
"Cgmenu2x flicker" is a game for nn?
<nebajoth>
its convenient
<nebajoth>
and powerful
<zear>
rafa, i set the default clock for gmenu2x to 336MHz and the flickering was reduced to the same rate matchbox flickers in jlime ;)
<nebajoth>
the best part of using the CLI on the NN
<nebajoth>
is how 1337 I look
<rafa>
Cgmenu2x.. I want  to see the appointments calendar on gmemu2x, battery status, more info, applets
<zear>
nebajoth, ;)
<zear>
rafa, do it :D
<rafa>
and some way to put forecast when it has internet connection, and auto power off forecast when there is not
<rafa>
zear: yeah, sure, it is free software
<zear>
rafa, at least you can customize it through the menu, unlike matchbox
<zear>
you can add new menu entries to it, etc
<rafa>
ah, and qwerty keyboard, and some way to set things: networkin, brightnes, etc
<rafa>
zear: matchbos is a window manager.. you mean the look and feel?.. easy, give some days more
<zear>
brightness is configurable through the menu
<zear>
rafa, yeah, matchbox is fine
<rafa>
and I will have something more useful than static Cgmenu features
<nebajoth>
yes, I'd like recognition of internet
<zear>
but we really need some sort of a calendar/pim app
<zear>
that's the thing i lack the most
<nebajoth>
then I could have my NN automatically log in with a python bot to an irc channel
<nebajoth>
follow me around online like a puppy
<zear>
rafa, tried dillo and netsurf
<zear>
both of them are hard to control without a mouse
<zear>
you can't click links on the websites, etc
<rafa>
so?
<zear>
so we need mouse emulation in x11
<zear>
:)
<rafa>
no mouse.. keyboard friendly apps
<zear>
or that, yea
<rafa>
but anyway, nn looks nice as player.. for tiny apps and some games, perhaps many.. but no more.. it will not have wireless connectivity.. so you will not bring it whre you can use internet
<zear>
i know
<zear>
but can be handy as a html reader
<rafa>
dillo fullscreen (without widgets) should have keyboard control
<rafa>
if no, some comman line or config option
<rafa>
zear: have you tried clcal with some applets or gui clients?.. perhaps it would be useful, and torsmo could show the "today appointments"
<zear>
rafa, gpe-calculator is quite usable
<rafa>
is not the whole gpe heavy is you do not use it alone?
<rafa>
if you*
<rafa>
zear: I will install gpe-calculator then.. I have not tried any calculator yet