<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: not so shy ! ;-) "News item 2: we now also sell MilkyMist One boards directly from sharism. [...]"
<Jay7>
morning
<Jay7>
hehe.. yes, people are comparing NN with Zipit2 and choose second
<Jay7>
because (surprise) of wifi
<Jay7>
not sure about usb-host
<kyak>
interesting, they look comparable
<kyak>
howeverm it seems that they are far behind on the software side
<wpwrak>
ugly design, too. lacks the all-black coolness of the ben :)
<kyak>
but the hardware is really far ahead :) wifi (as you mentioned), expansion slot
<kyak>
yes, looks like shit, too
<kyak>
and... where is the price?
<kyak>
ok, they also have prop. things there
<kyak>
not comparable at all
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: hmm, pcbnew needs one more option: --exclude-board-edges  for "plot"
<wpwrak>
kyak: (price) google for  zipit z2
<kyak>
ok, it's cheaper
<wpwrak>
the price is indeed interesting, considering the sheer quantity of hardware they're packing. the ben is a much more integrated solution. well, it has a lot of expensive flash ...
<qi-bot>
[commit] Werner Almesberger: atben: straightened traces inside 8:10 card slot to reduce risk of shorts http://qi-hw.com/p/ben-wpan/bb2894f
<wolfspraul>
wpwrak: ok got it (pcbnew param). need to see when I get to it.
<wolfspraul>
I haven't done anything yet on the kicad side since my announcement - not good :-)
<wolfspraul>
I mean the announcement on their list that I would work on upstreaming those patches...
<wolfspraul>
as I understand they are close to another release, maybe I uplevel after that
<wpwrak>
wolfspraul: yeah, that may be a good time. let's hope "close to another release" won't be a condition that lasts for years :)
<kristianpaul>
morning Jay7
<kristianpaul>
( zipit z2) put a GSM chip in the nano plus simcard, and a sofware to just connect to facebook and twitter, and you're done ! :p
<kristianpaul>
is cheap this device indeed
<steve|m>
kristianpaul: then you could directly use a MediaTek MT6235 as cpu :P
<kristianpaul>
hehe
<steve|m>
gsm layer1 inside the linux kernel - this would be awesome
<kristianpaul>
LUA BOOOTS !!
<zrafa>
wpwrak: do you remember people complaining about ubifs on nand broken after booting jlime or another system on SD? I found something related
<kristianpaul>
tuxbrain: now i want my congrats back !! ;-)
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: expired ;-))
<kristianpaul>
now some proper blog post about this
<kristianpaul>
zrafa: lol
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: great stuff man btw :)
<kristianpaul>
now lets clean this mess
<kristianpaul>
and make a proper patch ? ha
<wpwrak>
zrafa: (ubifs) aaah ?
<kristianpaul>
booo ;)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: ah.. you do not remember :)
<wpwrak>
zrafa: yes yes, i do remember. i was one of them :)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: okey.. I am working with gamerunner distro for freerunner. It uses an old openmoko distro as base system. And this system tries to mount the freerunner jffs2 nand at boot time. My current system, qtmoko, uses ubifs, no jffs2. Well, after booting gamerunner it broke the ubifs on nand
<zrafa>
wpwrak: very related I would say. The really suck thing is why ubifs breaks after some system tries to mount it with another layout or trying a different fs?
<wpwrak>
zrafa: maybe it's jffs2 that doesn't notice that this is ubifs and tries to do something funny with it
<wpwrak>
zrafa: as in "of, this looks broken". let's fix some things.
<zrafa>
wpwrak: I am trying gamerunner in my freerunner from SD, similar like jlime on nanonote booting from uSD trying to mount nand
<zrafa>
wpwrak: yeah.. but what about the situation with nanonote?. ON this case jlime tries to mount the ubifs nand.. but because qi-openwrt uses a different layout jlime can not mount that ubifs, but it breaks it :)
<zrafa>
wpwrak: it is like.. "if I can not mount it I will break" :P
<wpwrak>
zrafa: yes, that's a little odd. maybe ubifs has the same kind of destructive behaviour like jffs2 then
<kristianpaul>
disable jffs2 support in the kernel and thats it??
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: he.. well, but that would not fix the problem.. just avoid it :)
<kristianpaul>
lets avoid jffs2 ;-)
<kristianpaul>
And see if the problem still there
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: and I do not need to disablle jffs2 in kernel.. that is some script at /etc/rc* who tries to mount the nand
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: I could comment out the line trying to mount all the things around
<zrafa>
if I want to avoid
<kristianpaul>
ah i see
<zrafa>
kristianpaul: but, anyway, I am not trying to avoid the problem. I would like to know what is happening
<kristianpaul>
sure
<wpwrak>
it may well be that at least jffs2 will mount anything it is told to mount, and just treat anything that doesn't look right as defective
<wpwrak>
phew. done.
<wpwrak>
tuxbrain, rjeffries: all you'll ever wish to forget about UBB is about to hit the list :)
<rjeffries>
hi wpwrak
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: let's see who has the first boards - you or tuxbrain ;-)
<rjeffries>
wow
<rjeffries>
I think I;ll have a bronze statue of you created and place it on a pedestal in my yeard
<rjeffries>
if nothing else...
<wpwrak>
;-)
<wpwrak>
that's easy. for writing only 299 lines. other guys have to write a lot more before they get a statue :-)
<roh>
hm. boards?
<wpwrak>
roh: UBBs
<roh>
just seens the mail... tldr;
<roh>
;)
<wpwrak>
roh: that's the nerd's equivalent of a government posting new laws in its gazette. you can always say later "but i wrote it here" ;-)
<roh>
wpwrak: well.. you know what 'tldr;' stands for?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: yeah, but one or the other is usually sufficient :)
<wpwrak>
roh: you should become a teacher
<roh>
i dont critisise... its just too much text for breakfast.. need to read it kater
<roh>
eh later
<roh>
eehj.
<wpwrak>
*grin*
<kristianpaul>
jaaja
<kristianpaul>
damn long
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: Thats a nice copyleft plan let me tell you ! :-)
<wpwrak>
copyleft plan ?
<kristianpaul>
yeah
<kristianpaul>
plans
<kristianpaul>
**
<kristianpaul>
plans != plan ?
<wpwrak>
sure. but what plan are you referring to ? or do you mean "plan" as in "guide" or "instructions" ?
<kristianpaul>
"copyleft plans and software for manufacturing"
<kristianpaul>
hmm
<kristianpaul>
plans a guide and preparatory instructions
<wpwrak>
ah, more in the latter sense then. not "intention", "projection" :)
<kristianpaul>
a/as a
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: thanks a lot for the acurated and extense information :)
<roh>
wpwrak: archieved to read your mail. nice idea
<roh>
just one problem: if all the stuff uses the '8:10' slot .. where should i store data?
<roh>
for me io-extensions dont make sense if they block the only place for mass-storage
<kristianpaul>
roh: use the nand?
<roh>
kristianpaul: laughable capacity
<roh>
wears out fast. not exchangeable
<roh>
if i would design a device now i would not add any flash chip if possible
<roh>
use the romloader, boot from sd. add 2 sdslots in total minimum.
<roh>
kristianpaul: also flash gets cheaper and bigger faster than you can develop. so if you plan your device with available chips now, they will be smaller than the cheap sdcards when you are in prodution and still cost you more than sdcards the same size
<kristianpaul>
12Gb nand !
<kyak>
800x600 touch display!
<kristianpaul>
UMTS !!
<kristianpaul>
:p
<kyak>
for 35 bucks!
<kyak>
no, for 3.5!
<kristianpaul>
(not exchangeable) are you beating current desoldering techniques??
<roh>
kristianpaul: soldered flash is not user replaceable.
<roh>
hackers dont count at all (from a business pov)
<kristianpaul>
sure
<tuxbrain>
roh: I don't dislike the idea of dual 8:10 slot, also if both are accesible (as Openpandora has with SD) Nanonote can be used as 8:10 storage cards duplicator if you charge the SO in ram of course :)
<roh>
tuxbrain: one can be hidden behind the battery from my pov
<tuxbrain>
mmm this will "protect" the "system" card but I like more the idea of being accesible, then you have two slots to play with UBB things :P
<roh>
removing the rootfs sucks
<roh>
from a software view, also from a complexity view.
<roh>
also sd is _slow_
<roh>
so copying lots of data on the run is bullshit in reality
<roh>
having to exchange cards at all to expand total useable storage already sucks.. flash is just too slow and small still.
<roh>
atleast for serious computers.
<roh>
(or to expensive, pick your choice)
<tuxbrain>
mmm so flash is no way and sd is slow... so what is the alternative?
<kristianpaul>
sd is slow?
<roh>
kristianpaul: yes. same as usb storage.
<roh>
usb 'thumbsticks'
<roh>
all crap with <20mbyte/sec write speed.
<roh>
tuxbrain: from my pov the next nanonote needs to be more like a sharp netwalker.. atleast the performance.
<roh>
anything else will stay 'fisherprice toys'
<tuxbrain>
what storage is using netwalker?
<roh>
>500mhz. atleast 1/4 gb ram, maybe some nor for a bootloader, but no soldered nand.
<roh>
dunno. i think some flash and a disk
<tuxbrain>
I agree with you is a beautiful machine
<tuxbrain>
I have one :)
<tuxbrain>
but damn expensive
<roh>
true. thats its problem.
<roh>
the point is: one can DO stuff with it.
<roh>
in the real world. not just some fantasy-env
<roh>
ah. no disk. sd external and 4gb nand.
<mstevens>
Is there going to be a next nanonote?
<roh>
well.. internal nand only gives one pain, and work. better add more ram for disk-cache to make the second sd fast enough to use
<tuxbrain>
methril has take a look at the insights , and his first though was it was a integration wet dream for any EE
<roh>
mstevens: at some point.
<roh>
ah. i am talking about the pc-z1, not the tablet crap
<tuxbrain>
but netwalker also use flash...is flash !=nand?
<tuxbrain>
yes me too
<mstevens>
remembers tuxbrain sold him a nanonote
<roh>
tuxbrain: yes it uses flash. i dont say copy it. its just an example ;)
<roh>
nand is one kind of flash
<tuxbrain>
ok clarified
<roh>
the 'bad kind' .. which everybody uses since its lower price and bigger size than other types of flash
<tuxbrain>
mstevens: and that is good or that is bad? :P
<mstevens>
tuxbrain: good!
<roh>
there is also nor, but its expensive and only available in small amounts a piece (few mbytes)
<tuxbrain>
roh: I agree with you than netwalkwer was a beautiful beast to wear in your pocket, but we also must face the following facts:
<tuxbrain>
a) We don't have sharp resources
<tuxbrain>
b) Netwalker has a lot of privative stuff (which has made the kernel not advance in mainline and his ubuntu has not evoluted since his release)
<tuxbrain>
c)Nanonote form factor is awesome and also it's keyboard compared with Netwalker (I think is one of his main flaws)
<tuxbrain>
d)I don't consider NN with 64 (or better 128)MB RAM , dual SD, 640x480 (or better a wide format) touchscreen,6LowPAN,GPS a toy at all , and when Harald Welte ends his Free GSM stack we can also add GPRS modem
<roh>
tuxbrain: a) b) sure.
<roh>
c) the nanonote multiple key suck (need diodes)
<tuxbrain>
diodes?
<roh>
diode-matrix. enables you to do a keyboard which is useable, not broken like in ben
<roh>
in ben it fails as soon as you press the 3rd key.
<tuxbrain>
have you a link of that kind of kbd?
<roh>
well.. google for keyboard matrix with diodes and without
<roh>
the current one doestn have diodes. so it can by definition not detect multiple keypresses at the same time without error
<wpwrak>
roh: but i agree with you criticism if built-nand on all counts. i'd love to have a second 8:10 card slot and that's what i'd consider a "must have" feature for the ya
<roh>
besides temporary connecting
<tuxbrain>
ok then , seems that the "dual 8:10 on ya" lobby is growing
<kristianpaul>
lua is fast on the milkymist :-)
<wpwrak>
roh: (kbd) you can detect 0, 1, 2, and > 2 keys. so just ignore anything that happens when you have > 2.
<tuxbrain>
kristianpaul: you achive to make it run on the board? awesome :)
<wpwrak>
roh: it's not as if anyone would type with a lot of fingers at the same time anyway ;-) well, the modifier keys need some special consideration
<roh>
wpwrak: sure. still i see it as kind of a 'too low end' concept
<roh>
diodes are cheap
<zrafa>
wpwrak: we have used 3 keys at the same time, which is the problem? the tiny keys?
<Jay7>
my wife is creating another case for nanonote ;)
<Jay7>
coming soon :)
<kristianpaul>
:)
<urandom__>
lua on Milkymist? awesome!
<urandom__>
but am i the only one who thinks "lua + fpga ’ lua-maschine"? not realistic i know
<kristianpaul>
i think is same history as forth
<kristianpaul>
remenber forth processors?
<kristianpaul>
but who knows !
<urandom__>
remember lisp-maschines, they used to be really awesome
<kristianpaul>
lisp? i dint knew that one
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: your web server is written in lisp isnt?
<urandom__>
wow thats sad, its important that people still remember what lisp-maschines where and what have been awesome about them
<kristianpaul>
urandom__: i born i 1987, i miss so much importants thing in computer science :/
<urandom__>
the sad part is, there have been not many important ideas after 1987.. (well i was born a bit later)
<kristianpaul>
maketing
<kristianpaul>
maRketing
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: my web server ? you mean the one i run at almesberger.net, awhttpd ? (i didn't write it) now, that one's written in C
<urandom__>
the short story is that lisp-maschines have been superior in many aspects and you might argue they still are but well in IT world the worse technology seems to win mostly
<wpwrak>
urandom__: well, if you program lisp in a very procedural way, you can avoid most of the difficulties. but then, why use lisp in the first place ?
<kristianpaul>
lets code in haskell !
<wpwrak>
urandom__: if you stay close to the functional paradigm, complex data structures get hard to manage. languages like C do a better job there (while having their own problems, like not ensuring referential integrity)
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: do { while (easy(lang[i]) && !done) program_in(lang[i]); i++; } while (!done);
<kristianpaul>
;-9
<kristianpaul>
oops
<kristianpaul>
:-)
<kristianpaul>
easy -> done -> happy -> works !
<urandom__>
maybe lua or some lua like subset ist really the way to go for a new kind of lisp-maschine, i mean i understand some people dont like lisp but even c people should like lua, I dont really know how lua would do on bare hardware but would be fun to try
<urandom__>
(lua might have ALGOL style syntax but has many similaritys with lisp/scheme)
<kristianpaul>
no more excuses manifesto :-)
<wpwrak>
yeah, mission accomplished :)
<zrafa>
I am still reading the mail :)
<zrafa>
one of the longest
<wpwrak>
how to stop all work in a project for one entire monday ;-)
<wpwrak>
well, i have another mail in the making. about the CAM process. that one is only 114 lines so far, but still needs one or two major sections. also, it's dense text. only very few links and no pictures. should be fun :)
<wpwrak>
but that won't hit the list too soon. maybe in a week or two.
<kristianpaul>
I hope it got more pictures in the remaining time for publication, mainlly because is CAM related. i think
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: drawings would be nice ... but are also a lot of work. maybe in a later version :)
<kristianpaul>
I'll use my mind and imagination then ;-)
<viric>
wpwrak: what MUA do you use?
<viric>
I wonder how comfortable you keep some half-written letters, read others, ...
<wpwrak>
viric: i use mutt. i have a lot of parallel sessions :)
<wpwrak>
viric: besides, all the mails i write are just text files. so when i notice that something takes very long, i just save it with a proper name.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: parallel sessions? what for?
<kristianpaul>
mutt -f ?
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: so that i don't have to finish reading/processing/answering one mail before reading/processing/answering the next.
<kristianpaul>
wpwrak: yeah
<wpwrak>
kristianpaul: e.g., i have two mutt sessions in my inbox. that's where all the non-mailing-list traffic and some low-volume mailing lists end up. then three mutts on the qi-hw list. and one on the openmoko community list (because rafa asked about activity there). that's a fairly quiet setup.
<wpwrak>
s/sessions in/sessions on/
<kristianpaul>
are you using mbox or mail-dir?
<wpwrak>
i have to use maildir. don't remember exactly why .. i think because that's all isync supports. i like the easily searchable mbox better.
<kristianpaul>
(easily searchable mbox) yay
<kristianpaul>
Anyway is good to have VGA output from time to time :-)
<kristianpaul>
I like pdf thing
<kristianpaul>
oops
<wolfspraul>
kristianpaul: congrats you got lua to run on m1 :-)
<wolfspraul>
I don't know what you can do now with it, but it sounds cool...
<kristianpaul>
(do now with it) me either :p
<kristianpaul>
Lets wait for a proper integration with flickernoise and see what came up :-)
<kristianpaul>
trying to compile flickernoise for third time
<kristianpaul>
wolfspraul: I'm getting ready to migrate from SIE
<kristianpaul>
s/do/dont
<kristianpaul>
morning adamw_
<adamw_>
kristianpaul, hi morning!
<piroko>
kristianpaul told me to ask you guys how typing is on the nanonote. I'm very curious
<xMff>
hm
<xMff>
punctuation can be hard to reach
<piroko>
In actual use, do you type on it like you would a cell phone? Like, with two hands using your thumbs?
<xMff>
yes
<xMff>
at least me :)
<piroko>
Huh. Interesting. You using it for anything interesting? I'm debating getting one, but I haven't thought of a good use for it yet
<piroko>
I mean, I have my cell phone, which runs android, lasts all day, and can talk to my bluetooth keyboard. I'm just trying to figure out where the nanonote would fit
<wolfspraul>
piroko: if you think purely practically, your Android phone is a very large superset of the NanoNote
<piroko>
And thinking not purely practically?
<xMff>
currently I do not much with it due to a lack of time. I used it on the road as mp3 player and sometimes for chatting with irssi (got my self a wifi microsdio card)
<wolfspraul>
the reason you may like the NanoNote is for the pure joy of knowing you can control 100% of the software, maybe because lots of unusual apps like vi, mutt, aewan, gmu and others are running on it out of the box
<wolfspraul>
I use mine primarily as a music player
<wolfspraul>
don't have an Android phone though, barely use any cell phone
<piroko>
Yeah, I ssh to a real computer via my phone, so the nanonote probably wouldn't be very useful to me
<wolfspraul>
piroko: you can also get a NanoNote just for the heck of supporting this project :-)
<piroko>
It's still very interesting to me though :)
<piroko>
haha yes, plus the form factor is pretty sweet. How's the battery life?
<wolfspraul>
not just financially, but more importantly in feedback and contributions
<wolfspraul>
battery life... I think with screen on ca 4-6 hours, maybe more. with screen off just playing music I've heard 15 hours, but mine won't last that long.
<wolfspraul>
you can fit slightly larger (thicker) batteries into the battery slot though, then it might be better. I think most people are satisfied with the battery life, in relation to how they use the device.
<wolfspraul>
so few people are trying to put larger batteries into it.
<wolfspraul>
it's definitely the most mobile pure Linux device on the market, I think
<wolfspraul>
the downside is that the hardware specs are not really competitive, starting from things like usb on-the-go (host), to screen resolution, memory, lack of wifi, lack of touch, lack of gps/bluetooth, lack of gsm/edge/3g, lack of accelerometers
<wolfspraul>
:-)
<wolfspraul>
I love the device though, and the community around it.
<wolfspraul>
you can run openwrt, jlime, debian, gentoo on it
<wolfspraul>
for debian and gentoo I personally think it's not very functional, but some people seem to prefer Debian still. (biggest problem is 32 mb memory, which is really too low for Debian)
<wolfspraul>
the 2 best distros are definitely jlime and openwrt, imho
<wolfspraul>
oh, there is even a small microkernel being developed on and with the Ben, it's called Iris
<piroko>
I find it interesting that jlime has ported their stuff over to the nanonote. I used to use jlime heavily on my jornadas
<wolfspraul>
there's a lot of people that would argue that jlime is the best distro for NanoNote, it's quite actively supported and most importantly I think it will get better over time
<wolfspraul>
jlime and openwrt share very different philosophies, that's why I like them both
<wolfspraul>
openwrt is always 'build from source' type, optimized for size & speed
<wolfspraul>
you can create 4 mb sized bootable rootfs for the NanoNote, with openwrt
<wolfspraul>
busybox, uclibc, etc.
<wolfspraul>
my nanonote with openwrt boots in 15 seconds
<wolfspraul>
jlime on the other hand is using openembedded on the backend, which is more of a meta-distribution type of environment
<wolfspraul>
so you would typically not want to build jlime yourself from source, instead you see jlime as a 'built for you' environment with lots of packages ready to be installed
<wolfspraul>
in numbers, openwrt has about 2000-2500 packages, jlime about 15,000
<wolfspraul>
(note that most of them wouldn't make sense or even run successfully on the NanoNote anyway)
<wolfspraul>
those numbers just to illustrate my point
<piroko>
Right. I've dealt with openembedded. It was pretty much the worst experience of my life, and the jlime guys will attest to its horridness. But they still do a great job of packaging stuff up
<wolfspraul>
we share the same experience :-)
<wolfspraul>
so the 2 'official' and currently most supported distros for the Ben are jlime and openwrt
<wolfspraul>
then there is Debian which is also quite actively maintained
<wolfspraul>
gentoo I've only read once, and never heard much from anymore
<piroko>
haha. I wonder if there's someone out there who actually installs their packages ON the nanonote in gentoo
<wolfspraul>
fedora was interested at some point, but backed off when they found out about 32 mb memory, since they officially only support platforms with 64 mb memory or more (and even that was just lowered from 128 to 64).
<wolfspraul>
we are trying very hard to get patches upstream, everwhere
<wolfspraul>
larsc has been exceptionally successful in getting most of the NanoNote Linux kernel patches into kernel.org
<wolfspraul>
that should help come out with newer Debian builds
<wolfspraul>
I've also heard the jlime folks are working on getting some of their stuff back into OpenEmbedded, which is great
<wolfspraul>
xiangfu is working on getting u-boot patches into u-boot proper
<wolfspraul>
and so on
<wolfspraul>
after a year we succeeded in getting the nanonote-specific usbboot utility (for unbricking) into Debian unstable :-)
<piroko>
Damn
<wolfspraul>
damn what? your Android phone just broke?
<xMff>
;)
<piroko>
haha
<piroko>
Damn that it took a year
<larsc>
unfortunately things don't tend to happen magical, so you have to some effort into them and they take some time
<piroko>
Of course
<piroko>
And debian is a HUGE project
<roh>
wolfspraul: any hint how i get a fedex box? or should i use some of mine?
<wolfspraul>
roh: did you confirm that the fedex airway bill is enough for you as a proof of export?
<roh>
it seems so. i will talk with the fedex guys on the phone lateron.
<wolfspraul>
or should we just believe the fedex rep that < 1000 EUR it is enough...
<wolfspraul>
sure. I would probably trust them, but the risk is on your side so I ask you.
<roh>
my tax guy basically confirmed it
<wolfspraul>
ah great
<wolfspraul>
so then, next question, what is the lowest price fedex can offer
<wolfspraul>
I think they have some calculator on their website, let me check
<roh>
hehe. i need to find a scale to re-weight the package
<wolfspraul>
basically there are 2 options, you can use the sharism fedex account, or you can just pay cash
<wolfspraul>
must be ca. 3 KG
<roh>
3-4
<wolfspraul>
using the sharism account is easiest for you, but if it's more expensive than you paying cash I would rather save the money
<roh>
sure. but i guess its more expensive when i pay cash than your account (which for sure has better conditions than single packages)
<wolfspraul>
on one hand sharism gets a (small) discount, because we ship quite a bit with them, on the other hand getting a package from Germany to Taiwan is called a '3rd party shipment', because the sharism account is in hong kong
<wolfspraul>
no, not that easy
<wolfspraul>
fedex has many great services, but well, they make money on those services :-)
<wolfspraul>
of course you can just give them the number and the shipment is on the way. but sharism (=me) has to pay for that luxury :-)
<roh>
i guess for my papers its easier to get the airway-bill directly
<wolfspraul>
they can even pick it up (ring, more fees)
<roh>
just thinking...
<wolfspraul>
you will get the airway bill in any case
<roh>
pickup? i guess so. have no clue how to get packages to them otherwise. i am not aware of any fedex stations
<wolfspraul>
sometimes sending in a fedex standard envelope/box is cheaper, they will give you those for free
<wolfspraul>
one by one
<wolfspraul>
we learn, also for future shipments
<roh>
eh. ok. so i will call them for conditions, terms and getting their box somehow.
<wolfspraul>
going to their office at least once is not bad, you can chat a bit and get some free envelopes/packages etc.
<wolfspraul>
also we need to see how much they charge for pickup
<wolfspraul>
let me try to find their calculator now... Germany to Taiwan
<wolfspraul>
roh: they also mention this 7-digit customs number, which seems mandatory for a lot of shipments since jan 1, 2011
<wolfspraul>
maybe you should get one for yourself. it's probably easy, just some paperwork. Harald has one too, I use it for the shipments I send to him.
<roh>
not sure i get such a number. i only have a vat-id. no handelsregisterauszug or gewerbeanmeldung
<wolfspraul>
I'm sure you get one. anybody can get one.
<wolfspraul>
first price I get from fedex is 217 EUR. too much.
<rjeffries>
how much work is required to reflash Ben to a new version? assume NEW user, not tools set up pls. Tanks
<rjeffries>
s/tanks/thanks
<wolfspraul>
if you have a Debian-based Linux host (debian/ubuntu/etc), you can install the xburst-tools .deb package, then run reflash_ben.sh
<wolfspraul>
first time it needs to download the files, so depending on your network speed that may take 30 minutes for downloading, then another 30-40 minutes for flashing
<wolfspraul>
second device only the flashing time, reflash_ben.sh will pickup the downloaded files from a local cache
<rjeffries>
I have Ubunto machines
<roh>
should just work
<rjeffries>
s/ubunto/ubuntu
<wolfspraul>
roh: if the fedex price stays that high, I think we should opt for a cheaper option
<wolfspraul>
I will see whether I can bring it down somehow, using a fedex envelope/pack, the sharism account, etc.
<wolfspraul>
I thought about 100 EUR max, but if it's < 150 EUR maybe we just go for it, move things forward
<wolfspraul>
> 150 EUR is definitely too much, then we rather try dhl or even regular airmail
<wolfspraul>
you can airmail a 2 KG letter for 16 EUR (the size requirements for 'letter' are quite large nowadays)
<wolfspraul>
so you could send 2 such letters, 5 cases in each = 32 EUR
<wolfspraul>
my only concern then would be the export stuff, but maybe if you get a receipt from the postoffice that's still enough because we are < 1000 EUR
<roh>
i'll find out
<rjeffries>
I just sent a Dockstar (small computer) to Sweden by mail, cosy ne $15, was there in about 1 week. pleasantly surprsies
<roh>
would be much easier to sell within the eu
<roh>
;)
<wolfspraul>
roh: that letter option is definitely good, only thing is proof of export
<roh>
sure
<roh>
still quite expensive
<wolfspraul>
that's our fallback, we know we can get 2 such letters airmailed to Taiwan for 32 EUR
<wolfspraul>
reading this more carefully, they also mention the 1000 EUR limit for the export decalaration stuff
<wolfspraul>
so we should be safe on that end
<wolfspraul>
(page 21)
<wolfspraul>
you would have to fill out a form too, they have two forms (cn22 for value < 340 EUR, and cn23 for value > 340 EUR)
<wolfspraul>
my concern with using that route is that the deliver in Taiwan is being done by Taiwan Post. if you only have an English address on the letter, they will be adding a time consuming 'translation' step.
<wolfspraul>
that is, the letter will first go to a translation office, where they lookup the chinese address, add it to the letter, and then back into the local system
<wolfspraul>
(same procedure in China btw)
<wolfspraul>
this translation office is often overloaded or just plain slow. I have seen airmailed letters needing 4-6 weeks until they were finally delivered.
<wolfspraul>
the delay was on the translation side. So... if we use this way I will send you Adam's address in Chinese, you print it out and attach it besides/under the English address on the letters.
<wolfspraul>
that way we hopefully bypass the translation step and the letter can immediately be delivered locally.
<wolfspraul>
with an integrated system like fedex there is no such problem, since fedex handles the entire process, and their entire system runs on English characters.
<wolfspraul>
roh: should we just go this airmail letter route? 2 * 16 EUR = 32 EUR?
<wolfspraul>
then I will email you Adam's address in Chinese, and you can go to the postoffice to airmail them out...
<wolfspraul>
the size is very generous, you only need to prepare 2 small packets where the weight is less than 2 kg each
<roh>
dunno yet. will go sleep now
<roh>
already 5am and i feel kinda sick last 2 days.. better sleep it off.
<wolfspraul>
sure, sleep well. n8
<wolfspraul>
I will email you Adam's address in Chinese.