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00:05
<
erikh >
hello I wish to subscribe to your lack of tty knowledge^W^W^W^Wnewsletter
00:05
* erikh
sprinkles snark all over the channel
00:05
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00:06
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
erikh, ?
00:07
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
Feel free to decrease my lack.
00:08
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<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
erikh, I don't see how that applys to my problem?
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00:18
<
r0bgleeson >
what do you guys think of the proposal to remove '::' as syntax for calling methods?
00:18
<
charliesome >
r0bgleeson: i mostly support it
00:22
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00:37
<
whitequark >
r0bgleeson: should have been done a long time ago
00:37
<
whitequark >
that'll also remove quite a bit of complexity from parse.y... I think
00:38
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00:39
<
erikh >
MouseTheLuckyDog: sorry, was being snarky. so usually passing data in via stdin means that a tty can't be used, so it screws up things like readline and so forth
00:39
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00:40
<
erikh >
you'll see this with sudo too, check out the 'requiretty' setting which is the bane of anyone using net-ssh.
00:40
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00:40
<
erikh >
now, you can allocate a pty which should work, but I'm not entirely sure what's involved in doing that.
00:41
<
erikh >
but, be aware pty support is not exactly standard
00:41
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00:41
<
erikh >
charliesome: heh, as I see in your defines
00:42
<
erikh >
err, includes. whatev
00:42
<
charliesome >
well thats for forkpty()
00:42
<
erikh >
ah I don't really know the API
00:42
<
charliesome >
you can allocate a pty in a totally standard way
00:42
<
charliesome >
but it's extra bullshit busy work
00:42
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00:42
<
charliesome >
forkpty is very easy, but non-standard (i think)
00:42
<
erikh >
I've read it's not as easy as it sounds
00:42
<
erikh >
at least the vim author cited the emacs troubles on OS X for years
00:43
<
drbrain >
charliesome: erikh: there is require 'pty'
00:43
<
whitequark >
charliesome: y u no getopt :/
00:43
<
erikh >
in an argument to say there will never be full pty support
00:43
<
erikh >
drbrain: right
00:43
<
charliesome >
whitequark: iunno
00:43
<
erikh >
but yeah, ultimately, I know only what others have said that I trust
00:43
<
charliesome >
whitequark: patches welcome!!!
00:43
<
eam >
pty: character parsing in the kernel. Great idea
00:44
<
erikh >
eam: really?
00:44
<
whitequark >
eam: linux these days includes complete X.509 impl
00:44
<
eam >
where'd you think it was done? :)
00:44
<
whitequark >
now THAT is a great idea
00:44
<
erikh >
eam: point taken
00:44
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00:44
<
whitequark >
(because secure boot, that's why.)
00:45
<
charliesome >
whitequark: berkeley packet filter is also a brilliant idea
00:45
<
erikh >
whitequark: PXE?
00:45
<
whitequark >
erikh: nope, that microsoft drm thingy
00:45
<
whitequark >
charliesome: hmmm it has its own bytecode, right?
00:46
<
whitequark >
but it's limited to 2k ops per packet or smth like that
00:46
<
erikh >
drbrain: heh
00:46
<
charliesome >
whitequark: yeah but i think the linux kernel has a JIT for packet filter bytecode
00:46
<
eam >
it's funny to think that STDIN.readline is, when you peel it away, telling the kernel to read bytes until it sees '\n' in tty a device driver
00:46
<
whitequark >
drbrain: that is actually very neat... I'm too lazy to learn wireshark's scripting
00:47
<
whitequark >
charliesome: well jits for these kinds of stuff are very easy
00:47
<
charliesome >
eam: i don't think the kernel handles newlines
00:47
<
eam >
charliesome: it sure does
00:47
<
whitequark >
also it's more like aot actually
00:47
<
charliesome >
eam: oh?
00:47
<
eam >
charliesome: that's what the tty does for you
00:47
<
whitequark >
charliesome: google "line discipline"
00:47
<
whitequark >
it's even called so
00:47
<
erikh >
it's at the top of man 4 tty
00:47
<
erikh >
if you don't want to google.
00:47
<
whitequark >
aka "why you can use backspace together with gets()"
00:47
<
charliesome >
oh ok disregard me
00:47
<
eam >
/dev/pts/???, and you can instruct the tty device driver on what to do and what characters to worry about with ioctl()
00:47
<
erikh >
eam: STDIN.readline likely doesn't consult tty though, does it?
00:48
<
charliesome >
unix is so complex
00:48
<
drbrain >
whitequark: a) pcapr or whatever the current one is doesn't interpret packet structure and b) it is GPL
00:48
<
eam >
erikh: sure dude, it doesn't happen at userland right?
00:48
<
drbrain >
so I wrote my own
00:48
<
erikh >
I mean, in the standard echo blah | program case
00:48
<
drbrain >
I also didn't like that it used rb_thread_wait*
00:48
<
eam >
erikh: it hangs out blocking in a read() -- what ends the read?
00:48
<
erikh >
eof on stdin?
00:48
<
eam >
erikh: not in a pipe, run it controlling your tty :)
00:48
<
erikh >
err, yeah, isn't ... shit
00:48
<
erikh >
i'm scared now
00:48
<
erikh >
I don't wanna look
00:48
<
eam >
seriously it's kinda crazy to think about
00:49
<
erikh >
but yeah, I was thinking of the pipe case
00:49
<
erikh >
which should be read with an index
00:49
<
whitequark >
ugh, IO#readline is SCARY
00:49
<
erikh >
and some leftover buffer
00:50
<
erikh >
whitequark: heh, have you looked at the dispatch for system() ?
00:50
<
erikh >
it might have gotten better.
00:50
<
whitequark >
erikh: ...
00:50
<
whitequark >
I think I don't want to.
00:50
<
whitequark >
I had a nice day.
00:51
<
erikh >
yeah, probably best
00:51
<
erikh >
but if you're bored:
00:51
<
erikh >
strace these two lines
00:51
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00:51
<
erikh >
system(*%w[echo hi])
00:51
<
erikh >
system(*%w[echo 'hi'])
00:52
<
erikh >
it might have changed, but they're very different
00:52
<
whitequark >
why the fcntl weirdness
00:52
<
erikh >
the latter involves strtok
00:52
<
erikh >
or strscan, can remember now
00:53
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00:53
<
r0bgleeson >
drbrain: what license does rubygems use now?
00:53
<
whitequark >
erikh: they seem to perform about the same thing
00:53
<
drbrain >
r0bgleeson: ruby license (still)
00:53
<
whitequark >
and for some reason invoke fcntl(F_GETFD) on first 256 fds
00:53
<
erikh >
whitequark: maybe it's changed. the ticks used to dispatch a mini-shellwords in C
00:54
<
erikh >
might need to strace -f to see it
00:54
<
whitequark >
erikh: not sure... strtok isn't a syscall?
00:54
<
r0bgleeson >
drbrain: what's your preferred license?
00:54
<
erikh >
rihgt, but you'll see it in the exec
00:54
<
whitequark >
(I strace -f'd)
00:54
<
drbrain >
r0bgleeson: MIT
00:54
<
whitequark >
erikh: what?
00:54
<
r0bgleeson >
cool, same here
00:54
<
drbrain >
r0bgleeson: ruby license is now Ruby or GPL or BSD 2-clause
00:54
<
whitequark >
erikh: as in, it used to launch a supplementary binary?
00:55
<
erikh >
system with an array may or may not spawn a subshell
00:55
<
whitequark >
now it's just execve("/bin/echo", ["echo", "'hi'"], [/* 45 vars */]) = 0
00:55
<
erikh >
guess which one causes it to
00:55
<
erikh >
really? for both?
00:55
<
drbrain >
oh, right, I mis-negotiated the license change of rubygems to MIT instead of BSD 2-clause
00:55
<
whitequark >
and execve("/bin/echo", ["echo", "hi"], [/* 45 vars */]) = 0
00:55
<
erikh >
oh, interesting
00:55
<
whitequark >
seems so
00:56
<
erikh >
whitequark: do you have a 1.8 around?
00:56
<
whitequark >
erikh: yep
00:56
<
erikh >
mind trying it on that?
00:56
<
erikh >
I did a source dive after raggi and I had an argument about this ages ago
00:56
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00:56
<
erikh >
with raggi, and we found the relevant code
00:56
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00:57
<
whitequark >
erikh: 1.8.7-p370 seems to do the same thing.
00:57
<
erikh >
maybe I'm not using the right trigger. it's been ... over a year since I looked at it
00:57
<
erikh >
whitequark: sorry to waste your time
00:58
<
whitequark >
lazy 5am anyway
00:58
<
erikh >
apartment manager asked me why I'm up until 5am most nights
00:58
<
erikh >
she doesn't know many nerds
00:58
<
r0bgleeson >
where is raggi these days?
00:58
<
erikh >
r0bgleeson: around
00:58
<
r0bgleeson >
is he still hacking on ruby?
00:59
<
erikh >
rack I think, doing a lot of go too
00:59
<
erikh >
and he was trying to do the rubygems infosec stuff a while back.
00:59
<
erikh >
he lives down the street.
00:59
<
r0bgleeson >
you work together right?
00:59
<
erikh >
not anymore
00:59
<
r0bgleeson >
alright
00:59
<
erikh >
he's at the googles now
01:00
<
r0bgleeson >
oh wow, nice
01:00
<
erikh >
I left before the company got bought
01:00
<
r0bgleeson >
google bought the company?
01:00
<
erikh >
400mil + 100mil retention bonuses
01:00
<
r0bgleeson >
hm cool
01:00
<
erikh >
silly money
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<
whitequark >
the world living 9-23 is... annoying
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<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
erikh, I don't get tjem why it works when I press a regular key but not when I press a cursor key.
02:23
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
s/tjem/then/
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03:41
<
dingus_khan >
this is probably a stupid question, but I can't figure out how to pop two items in an array that appear at the top of the stack, and I have no idea how to look that question up...
03:43
pabs_ is now known as pabs
03:43
<
pabs >
items = array.pop(2)
03:43
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03:44
<
pabs >
if you want the first two items of the array rather than the last two, you can use .shift instead of .pop
03:44
<
pabs >
items = array.shift(2)
03:46
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03:47
<
dingus_khan >
right, shift... hmmm
03:51
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03:54
<
dingus_khan >
thanks pabs, I think I may be on the right track now
03:54
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04:04
<
whitequark >
right shift! left pop!
04:06
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04:09
<
dingus_khan >
yeah, my thing is not working... I am le dumb
04:11
<
dingus_khan >
I actually saw that coming, and I deserve it
04:15
<
charliesome >
dingus_khan: pastebin :(
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04:17
<
dingus_khan >
umm, is that a yes?
04:28
<
whitequark >
dingus_khan: that is actually OK
04:28
<
whitequark >
the pop-inject-block thingy is really, really unnecessary
04:29
<
whitequark >
first, second = result.pop(2); result.push(first + second)
04:29
<
whitequark >
or even
04:29
<
whitequark >
result.pop(2).reduce(:+)
04:29
<
whitequark >
(it'll then use the first value as an accumulator)
04:32
<
richcollins >
Can anyone explain wtf is going on here?
04:32
<
richcollins >
why doesn't that raise an exception?
04:34
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04:35
<
arubin >
Why would it?
04:36
<
richcollins >
arubin: because elseif isn't a valid keyword? It should be elsif
04:36
<
richcollins >
if you change elseif to elsif it prints "true"
04:37
<
arubin >
I just noticed that.
04:37
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04:37
<
richcollins >
its like it completely ignores the elseif statement
04:37
<
tsion >
richcollins: reindent it and add optional parens:
04:37
<
tsion >
puts("false")
04:37
<
tsion >
elseif(true)
04:37
<
tsion >
puts("true")
04:37
<
tsion >
that branch is never entered (if false) so elseif(true) is never executed
04:38
<
tsion >
it's not a syntax error, elseif is a valid method name
04:38
<
arubin >
richcollins: It does, because it is part of the first block.
04:38
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04:38
<
arubin >
richcollins: So it never tries to execute it.
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05:07
<
dingus_khan >
whitequark: thanks for the tip! I'm definitely going to redo it all with reduce and change the way it pushes to the array, since it has no way to recognize integers in the string right now, sigh
05:10
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<
seoaqua >
are there any chinese guys in this channel
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07:56
<
yorickpeterse >
morning
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08:05
<
gnufied >
morning yorick
08:12
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08:22
<
yorickpeterse >
damn it, it's a national holiday (so everything is closed) and I'm out of milk for my cereal
08:22
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08:23
<
yorickpeterse >
whitequark: node.js node.js node.js node.js
08:25
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08:32
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: huh, it's national holiday here too, but you can easily buy food
08:33
<
yorickpeterse >
Holland is a weird place
08:33
<
yorickpeterse >
The closest grocery store is about 10 minutes cycling away but doesn't open until 16:00
08:33
<
yorickpeterse >
(normally it's a 1 minute walk, but that one is closed)
08:34
<
whitequark >
I have two just in my house
08:34
<
whitequark >
... and at least one in every adjacent one. now that I think about it, that's a bit weird.
08:35
<
yorickpeterse >
you live in a shopping mall?
08:35
<
yorickpeterse >
you're not one of those homeless people with a box and internet are you?
08:36
<
whitequark >
well, no, not at least one in every adjacent one, that was an overestimation. but still a lot.
08:36
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08:37
<
yorickpeterse >
I live above a parfumer but that's about it
08:37
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08:37
<
yorickpeterse >
The bank below me closed a few months ago
08:37
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08:42
<
yorickpeterse >
but! I'm pretty sure the view from my balcony is better
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09:04
<
savagecroc >
Solve for x where [{:bla => 22}, {:boa => 33}.x => [22, 33]
09:04
<
savagecroc >
[{:bla => 22}, {:boa => 33}].x => [22, 33]
09:04
<
savagecroc >
[{:bla => 22}, {:bla => 33}].x => [22, 33] << ugh third time luck
09:04
<
savagecroc >
lucky*
09:05
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09:07
<
yorickpeterse >
gah, I hate my wifi
09:07
<
bnagy >
x.map(&:values).flatten?
09:07
<
yorickpeterse >
it really can not handle there being around 25 other networks around me
09:08
<
savagecroc >
[{:bla => 22},{:bla => 33}].map {|w| w[:bla]}
09:09
<
savagecroc >
yeah symbol to proc is a bit hard to use with w[:bla]
09:10
<
savagecroc >
maybe i'll make [{:bla => 22},{:bla => 33}].extract_key(:boa)
09:10
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09:10
<
savagecroc >
maybe i'll make [{:bla => 22},{:bla => 33}].extract_key(:bla)
09:10
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09:12
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09:12
<
savagecroc >
class Array; def extract_key(key); map {|i| i[key]}; end; end
09:13
<
bnagy >
savagecroc: that is disgusting
09:13
<
savagecroc >
go on...
09:13
<
bnagy >
monkeypatching core classes is disgusting in almost all cases
09:13
<
savagecroc >
ok.. reason?
09:14
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09:14
<
bnagy >
pollutes namespace, which could screw up anything that inherits from them
09:14
<
yorickpeterse >
conflicts
09:14
<
savagecroc >
i've never come across an issue yet
09:14
<
yorickpeterse >
Remember that when you patch something it can potentially affect
*everything* in your codebase
09:14
<
bnagy >
and, in general, it's just inelegant
09:14
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09:14
<
yorickpeterse >
that's like saying "Driving drunk is fine, I've never been caught!"
09:14
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09:15
<
bnagy >
Arrays shouldn't know how to do that, it's not Arrayish behaviour
09:15
<
savagecroc >
are you talking about things that inherit from array?
09:15
<
bnagy >
so you will confuse the hell out of anyone reading your code
09:15
<
heftig >
just something like module Helpers; def hash_values(hashes, key); hashes.map { |h| h[key] }; end; end
09:15
<
charliesome_ >
yorickpeterse: good point
09:15
<
heftig >
er, add module_function :hash_values
09:15
<
savagecroc >
heftig: ah yeah
09:15
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09:15
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09:16
<
savagecroc >
would you namespace them
09:16
<
savagecroc >
Helpers.hash_values
09:17
<
bnagy >
savagecroc: with something that simple I would just have ary.map {|e| e.fetch :bla}
09:17
<
charliesome >
savagecroc: namespace them with refinements
09:17
<
bnagy >
but if it's more complex then just define a method in wherever you're using it
09:17
<
heftig >
ew, refinements
09:17
<
charliesome >
using DisgustingArrayHacks; ary.extract_key(:yolo!)
09:17
<
bnagy >
or if you reeeeeally want it as an obect behaviour make a DelegateClass to Array
09:18
<
charliesome >
the best way to safely monkey patch is to prepend
09:18
<
savagecroc >
i've got about 20 monkeypatched methods on hash.. but switching them to helper functions would not be difficult
09:18
<
charliesome >
then if someone else monkeypatches the normal way
09:18
<
charliesome >
you still override them!
09:18
<
savagecroc >
things like def deep_copy; Marshal.load( Marshal.dump(self) ); end;
09:18
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09:18
<
yorickpeterse >
The best monkeypatch is no monkeypatch
09:19
<
charliesome >
yorickpeterse: shush fun police
09:19
<
andrewvos >
I agree with fun police
09:20
<
yorickpeterse >
STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM
09:20
<
yorickpeterse >
NOBODY BREAKS THE CORE CLASSES ON MY WATCH
09:20
<
charliesome >
actually
09:20
<
yorickpeterse >
WE'LL CONFISCATE ANY STOLEN MONKEYPATCHES AND THEN IT'S OFF TO JAIL
09:20
<
charliesome >
i had an idea for a usecase for refinements
09:20
<
yorickpeterse >
get out
09:20
<
savagecroc >
actually
09:20
<
charliesome >
can you imagine something like this
09:20
<
savagecroc >
i think String.. would have to be monkey patched
09:21
<
charliesome >
User.select { |user| user.age >= 18 }
09:21
<
charliesome >
being turned into SELECT * FROM users WHERE age >= 18
09:21
<
charliesome >
or maybe you'd write
09:21
<
charliesome >
User.select { :age >= 18 }
09:21
<
yorickpeterse >
charliesome: Sequel does that
09:21
<
yorickpeterse >
and without monkeypatches
09:21
<
yorickpeterse >
from what I can tell at least
09:21
<
charliesome >
actually there's another feature of ruby 2.0 that means you can do that without refinements
09:22
<
charliesome >
RubyVM::InstructionSequence.of
09:22
<
charliesome >
pass it a proc and you're golden
09:22
<
bnagy >
if there was a "being right" combo bonus, yorickpeterse would be pretty close to it right now
09:22
<
savagecroc >
it allows you to do stuff like variable = <<-SQL.unindent
09:22
<
savagecroc >
and still keep your indentation without all the whitespace
09:22
<
yorickpeterse >
charliesome: you're a terrible person
09:23
<
yorickpeterse >
but we still love you
09:23
<
bnagy >
AHHAHAH U LUV MEN
09:23
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09:24
<
yorickpeterse >
liek if u cry everytiem
09:24
<
charliesome >
i'd love to write a yarv bytecode -> ast thing
09:24
<
bnagy >
I think the Ruby equivalent of Godwin ("this is how Nazi Germany started") should be "this is how ActiveSupport started"
09:24
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09:25
<
yorickpeterse >
patch all the things
09:25
<
charliesome >
half of AS should be pulled into ruby itself imo
09:25
<
bnagy >
charliesome: do it with llvm
09:25
<
savagecroc >
charliesome: i thought half of it was
09:25
<
charliesome >
bnagy: and hadoop
09:25
<
charliesome >
savagecroc: well now the other half
09:25
<
savagecroc >
there's where symbol to proc came from
09:25
<
savagecroc >
yeah i really think all the time functions should be in ruby
09:25
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09:25
<
charliesome >
didn't that come from facets originally
09:25
<
charliesome >
facets was activesupport before rails was cool
09:25
<
savagecroc >
it's really annoying having to include AS
09:26
<
bnagy >
I'll concede that Time Date and DateTime is a clusterfuck
09:26
<
charliesome >
yeah. there's heaps of useful methods but i'm not depending on AS just for a helper method
09:26
<
bnagy >
but 3.months makes me physically ill
09:26
<
savagecroc >
ah there are so many useful functions in there.. like time.beginning_of_week etc
09:27
<
savagecroc >
not having to write all the crap yourself is really nice
09:27
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09:27
<
bnagy >
I think they're left out of ruby because they're wildly imprecise
09:27
<
yorickpeterse >
yo dawg, I heard you like times so I put a Time, Date and DateTime in your stdlib so you can DateTime while you Date Time
09:28
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09:28
<
charliesome >
bnagy: why don't you like 3.months and friends?
09:29
<
bnagy >
because 3 is a fucking number
09:29
<
bnagy >
even 3.times makes me queasy
09:29
<
charliesome >
Fixnum#times is the best thing ever
09:30
<
charliesome >
the best part about it is how it returns an enumerator if you don't give it a block
09:30
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09:30
<
savagecroc >
yeah i like 3 months
09:30
<
charliesome >
n.times.map { read_something }
09:30
<
savagecroc >
makes code so easy to read
09:30
<
bnagy >
it's useful, but it's still screwing the object model
09:30
<
yorickpeterse >
3.months.ago.beginning_of_time.to_time.utc # herp derp
09:30
<
charliesome >
bnagy: ruby's committed greater sins against object models than Fixnum#times
09:30
<
charliesome >
like Class < Module
09:31
<
bnagy >
what's wrong with that?
09:31
<
savagecroc >
bnagy: ok.. i find you a perfect example of how useful .months is
09:31
<
charliesome >
bnagy: you can't substitute a class everywhere it expects a module
09:31
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09:32
<
bnagy >
well no, because a Class is a special kind of Module
09:32
<
charliesome >
bnagy: exactly, so it shouldn't be a subclass
09:32
<
charliesome >
liskov would like a word with you
09:32
<
bnagy >
the actual implementation breaks the object model, but that's like deep in the code
09:32
<
bnagy >
subclasses are more specialised than superclasses
09:32
<
bnagy >
.. that's like what they're for
09:36
<
bnagy >
ok... not that I accept that this is a useful priciple, but where's the violation?
09:36
<
bnagy >
out of interest
09:38
<
charliesome >
bnagy: the most obvious violation is you can't include a Class
09:38
<
bnagy >
ahh, yeah ok
09:39
<
bnagy >
is that a behavioural violation though?
09:39
<
charliesome >
bnagy: well sure
09:39
<
charliesome >
also i could've sworn that UnboundMethod < Method
09:39
<
charliesome >
but it doesn't appear like that's the case
09:40
<
bnagy >
like, isn't include on Module?
09:40
<
injekt >
nope I noticed that a few days ago, I thought the same
09:40
<
charliesome >
bnagy: sure but the principle still holds
09:40
<
charliesome >
if you want to put it in terms of who owns the method, let's talk about append_features instead
09:40
<
bnagy >
... unconvinced
09:40
<
bnagy >
Module.include othermod
09:40
<
injekt >
10>> Object.superclass
09:41
<
injekt >
10>> Method
09:41
<
eval-in >
injekt => /tmp/execpad-761faf4bc9cd/source-761faf4bc9cd:2: NameError: Uninitialized constant Method (
http://eval.in/24396)
09:41
<
charliesome >
bnagy: now replace othermod with otherclass
09:41
<
charliesome >
it'll blow up
09:41
<
charliesome >
even though Class < Module
09:41
<
bnagy >
yeah but neither modules nor classes can include anything but Modules
09:41
<
bnagy >
it's a behaviour of the superclass
09:41
<
charliesome >
ok so why is Class a subclass of Module
09:42
<
charliesome >
classes clearly aren't modules
09:42
<
bnagy >
they're modules that can be instantiated :/
09:42
<
bnagy >
yeah OK it's weak :)
09:42
<
charliesome >
a cleaner way of expressing the relationship between Class and Module would be to add a third class, Namespace
09:42
<
charliesome >
Class < Namespace
09:42
<
charliesome >
Module < Namespace
09:43
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09:43
<
bnagy >
and hope this liskov crap isn't transitive? ;)
09:43
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09:44
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09:44
<
charliesome >
well if Class and Module both inherited from a common superclass, they wouldn't be in violation of LSP
09:45
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09:45
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09:46
<
bnagy >
and where would you define include?
09:48
<
charliesome >
well interestingly include does nothing except call append_features
09:48
<
charliesome >
class Module; def include(other); other.append_features(self); end; end
09:49
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09:50
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09:50
<
charliesome >
weird
09:50
<
charliesome >
looks like UnboundMethod is not a subclass of Method in 1.8.7, 1.9.2 or 1.9.3
09:50
<
charliesome >
dunno where i got that idea
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<
charliesome >
i bet there's some gnarly macros there
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10:35
<
whitequark >
charliesome: ugh, everyone's obsessing around that library lately
10:35
<
whitequark >
C can't be fixed, deal with that
10:35
<
charliesome >
it's hilarious
10:36
<
charliesome >
i would never actually use that library
10:36
<
yorickpeterse >
lets all use Go instead
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10:37
<
charliesome >
go has some cool ideas but too many dealbreakers for me
10:37
<
yorickpeterse >
or Haskell. Haskell has static typing, you can't get any bugs in your code because of that
10:37
<
injekt >
yorickpeterse: too late i already am
10:37
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10:39
<
injekt >
man that library is gonna pop up everywhere.. and that makes me sad
10:39
<
charliesome >
yorickpeterse: that's hilarious
10:39
<
charliesome >
injekt: why>
10:40
<
injekt >
charliesome: people who are writing C should know how to write C, I think that library is encouraging bad practice
10:40
<
charliesome >
injekt: so i doubt anyone would actually use that library
10:41
<
injekt >
charliesome: I wish that, but I honestly think it's gonna start popping up in peoples code
10:41
<
injekt >
charliesome: hopefully you're right!
10:41
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: most hilarious part of that page is .asp extension
10:42
<
yorickpeterse >
that extension is a joke regardless of the content
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10:51
<
injekt >
great lambda macros bro
10:52
<
yorickpeterse >
dem macros
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<
charliesome >
those macros are more amazing than MRI's
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<
yorickpeterse >
eh?
11:20
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
One more comment when I comment out the two rescues I get a Eagain exception thrown by the second read_nonblock.
11:20
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
yorickpeterse, ?
11:20
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11:20
<
yorickpeterse >
as in, why did you paste two random pasties?
11:21
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
Oh. In the first one, the third system command malfunctions. It doesn't take input from the tty.
11:21
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11:22
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
line 25
11:22
<
yorickpeterse >
and your question is?
11:22
<
yorickpeterse >
(generally it's best to start with a question instead of just pasting something)
11:23
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
How do I fix the third command to run properly?
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11:24
<
yorickpeterse >
which third command?
11:24
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11:24
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
I suspect that for some reason the Eagain error is somehow "getting stuck" in the stdin and stdin has to be clear or reset before the third command.
11:25
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
yorickpeterse, line 25.
11:26
<
MouseTheLuckyDog >
line 19-25 are the core of the problem the first two system commands work properly the third does not.
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<
mbj >
whitequark: Source::Range#to_source is planned to be supported for all nodes as exact reproduction?
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<
mbj >
whitequark: have to run, will ping you later.
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12:54
<
jperry >
Hi everyone, if I only can go to one of the ruby conferences RubyNation or RubyConf which one would you suggest?
12:55
<
charliesome >
jperry: rubyconf
12:55
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12:55
<
jperry >
@charliesome anything to back that up?
12:55
<
charliesome >
not really
12:55
<
jperry >
is it just a bigger event?
12:56
<
charliesome >
yeah its more established i think
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12:56
<
jperry >
I live in Boston and there is a vermont one but I think I'd rather go to either RubyNation or RubyConf
12:56
<
jperry >
I guess I'll see what my company is willing to fun
12:57
<
jperry >
the session list isn't available yet for RubyConf
12:57
<
charliesome >
it's usually pretty decent i believe
12:58
<
charliesome >
yeah they had matz last yeah
12:58
<
charliesome >
year*
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13:19
<
jperry >
charliesome: Nice, I'll see if I can go to that one, at the least the RubyNation lineup still looks pretty good
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13:35
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: >when it comes to method calling code I really want it to be consistent
13:35
<
whitequark >
pls count all of the ways to call a method in ruby.
13:36
<
whitequark >
then count all the syntactic constructs which invoke them.
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13:36
<
ericwood >
where is my prize?
13:36
<
ericwood >
whitequark: I will PM you my address so you can mail me my prize
13:36
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13:37
<
whitequark >
disqualified
13:37
<
whitequark >
the correct number is... hmm, 25.
13:37
<
ericwood >
did you actually count?
13:37
<
yorickpeterse >
whitequark: hey asshole, feel free to use what I actually wrote for the quote
13:37
<
yorickpeterse >
instead of coming up with something yourself
13:37
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: huh?
13:37
<
yorickpeterse >
"but when it comes to the method calling syntax
13:38
<
yorickpeterse >
I really want it to be consistent. "
13:38
<
yorickpeterse >
I explicitly stated "syntax", not the differences between send() and others
13:38
<
ericwood >
guys, guys, settle down
13:38
<
ericwood >
it's just ruby
13:38
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: sorry for the mistake. however my point still holds
13:38
<
whitequark >
it was just a typo.
13:38
<
yorickpeterse >
"a typo"
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13:39
<
whitequark >
you can "actually get rid of the operator" by writing a trivial parser rewriter.
13:39
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13:39
<
yorickpeterse >
probably, but just removing it would break existing code
13:39
<
yorickpeterse >
notably stdlib
13:39
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13:39
<
yorickpeterse >
because last time I checked it uses :: for method calls in various places
13:40
<
yorickpeterse >
which again is mentioned in said Email
13:40
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13:40
<
whitequark >
yeah... stdlib is really ancient in much places
13:40
<
whitequark >
also matz has a point
13:40
<
whitequark >
* we have convention of Array class and Array(obj) conversion method, why not Foo::Bar and Foo::Bar(obj)?
13:40
<
ericwood >
ruby needs more syntactic sugar for me to keep up with
13:40
<
yorickpeterse >
syntax obesitas
13:41
<
whitequark >
syntax diabetes
13:41
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13:43
<
ericwood >
syntax diabetus
13:44
<
ericwood >
ain't got shit on C++ syntax :D
13:44
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13:44
<
ericwood >
"the users are rebelling! Quick, add more sugar!"
13:44
<
yorickpeterse >
hm, I have an idea
13:44
<
whitequark >
C++ isn't at least truly context-sensitive
13:44
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13:44
<
whitequark >
whereas ruby is, from 1.9.2 onwards :/
13:44
<
ericwood >
my favorite feature of the old C++ was nested templates and having to put that fucking space between the closing >
13:44
<
ericwood >
> > instead of >>
13:44
<
ericwood >
because wtf Stroustrup
13:45
<
yorickpeterse >
>> def std; Object; end; std::String.new('C++')
13:45
<
whitequark >
ericwood: because LR(1)
13:45
<
ericwood >
whitequark: parser theory is my least favorite thing ever
13:45
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13:45
<
ericwood >
even my compilers prof was like, "I fucking hate parsers"
13:45
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13:46
<
ericwood >
but he was an angry eastern european guy
13:46
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13:47
<
whitequark >
I heard that there are two schools of compiler and language construction
13:47
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13:47
<
whitequark >
european prefers LL(1) (or LL(k) since 90's) parsers, american prefers LALR(1)
13:48
<
whitequark >
regardless... to disambiguate >> correctly you need lexer tricks just like in ruby's parse.y
13:48
<
whitequark >
I can totally understand why C++ guys did not want to add that to the spec
13:49
* whitequark
scratches his head
13:49
<
ericwood >
they were too busy adding "auto"
13:49
<
whitequark >
template_a<template_b<1 >> 2>>
13:49
<
ericwood >
and stroustrup was too busy raking in cash from my university
13:49
<
yorickpeterse >
hahaha, here watch this
13:50
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13:51
<
yorickpeterse >
could probably do it with less code but me
13:51
<
yorickpeterse >
* meh
13:51
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13:51
<
whitequark >
siiiigh
13:52
<
injekt >
yorickpeterse just wish ruby looked like cpp
13:52
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13:53
<
yorickpeterse >
I'm pretty sure you can make it look very close similar to that pastie
13:53
<
injekt >
yorickpeterse: probably, with all the magic ruby can do it can look like a lot of languages
13:55
<
yorickpeterse >
>> ?php
13:55
<
eval-in >
yorickpeterse => /tmp/execpad-84d51ccc1023/source-84d51ccc1023:2: syntax error, unexpected '?' ... (
http://eval.in/24553)
13:55
<
yorickpeterse >
hmpf
13:55
<
yorickpeterse >
>> ??php
13:55
<
eval-in >
yorickpeterse => /tmp/execpad-376808ce84c5/source-376808ce84c5:2: syntax error, unexpected tIDENTIFIER, expecting keyword_end (
http://eval.in/24554)
13:55
<
yorickpeterse >
bah
13:55
<
yorickpeterse >
oh, only works for single chars
13:55
<
yorickpeterse >
hmmmm
13:55
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13:57
<
injekt >
>> <%php %>
13:57
<
eval-in >
injekt => /tmp/execpad-d96c5df729f0/source-d96c5df729f0:2: syntax error, unexpected '<' ... (
http://eval.in/24555)
13:58
<
yorickpeterse >
>> def int(name, &block); define_method(name, &block); end; int :close_enough { return "Close enough"; }; close_enough
13:58
<
eval-in >
yorickpeterse => /tmp/execpad-5f9ddfa70f75/source-5f9ddfa70f75:2: syntax error, unexpected '{', expecting keyword_end ... (
http://eval.in/24556)
13:58
<
yorickpeterse >
yeah well....your face is unexpected
13:58
<
ericwood >
l2syntax
13:58
<
injekt >
ENOUGH! EXPELIUS PHPUS
13:58
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14:18
<
zzak >
good merneng
14:19
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14:23
<
yorickpeterse >
what the hell yajl
14:23
<
yorickpeterse >
"unexpected PLT reloc type", keep getting this stuff since a few days
14:23
<
yorickpeterse >
not sure if I borken something
14:24
<
yorickpeterse >
and re-installing the Gem only fixes it for an undetermined amount of time
14:24
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14:27
<
totallymike >
That seems...problematic.
14:27
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14:30
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: owww
14:30
<
whitequark >
undetermined amount of time...
14:30
<
whitequark >
linux?
14:30
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14:31
<
yorickpeterse >
yes
14:31
<
yorickpeterse >
well, it seems that it breaks after I run camper_van
14:33
<
whitequark >
try launching your piece of software with LD_BIND_NOW=1
14:33
<
yorickpeterse >
segfault
14:33
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14:33
<
whitequark >
rm / -rf all your rubies and gems, reinstall
14:33
<
yorickpeterse >
meh, I need an alternative anyway
14:33
<
yorickpeterse >
(to camper_van)
14:34
<
whitequark >
yorickpeterse: your system is b0rked
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
eh?
14:34
<
whitequark >
it is not an issue which can arise due to a programming error
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
I can require Yajl in IRB just fine
14:34
<
yorickpeterse >
including with that flag
14:34
<
whitequark >
well maybe not
14:34
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<
jperry >
RubNation 2013 or SteelCity Ruby Conf?
14:50
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<
jperry >
zzak: Any reason one over the other?
14:50
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14:52
<
zzak >
scruby is only $50
14:52
<
jperry >
so only based on price?
14:52
<
yorickpeterse >
jperry: why not both?
14:52
<
jperry >
yorickpeterse - work expense
14:53
<
jperry >
probably have a choice of one ruby conference this year
14:53
<
jperry >
rubyconf, ruby nation, or steel city
14:53
<
jperry >
rubyconf could be ruled out because of cost
14:53
<
yorickpeterse >
isn't rubyconf super expensive?
14:53
<
jperry >
Anyone know how much it cost last year?
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15:34
* yorickpeterse
prefers to see people mixed instead of being in their own camps
15:38
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15:38
<
darix >
yorickpeterse: this is discrimination against men
15:40
<
yorickpeterse >
hmmm.....not sure
15:40
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15:41
<
yorickpeterse >
I doubt it's done for the reason "Fuck men!", but I don't believe that gender exclusivity is going to solve the problem of gender bias in IT
15:44
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15:46
<
Muz >
yorickpeterse: just turn up and demand that you identify as being a woman
15:46
<
Muz >
Given that they can't discriminate against those with gender identity issues.
15:46
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15:46
<
yorickpeterse >
eh, what
15:46
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15:46
<
Muz >
Certainly works well enough for me in public places when I need a piss and the men's has a queue or is a right state
15:46
<
Muz >
"But I'm transgender"
15:46
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15:46
<
yorickpeterse >
way to miss the point
15:47
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15:47
<
Muz >
Way to take satire seriously.
15:47
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15:47
<
rue >
yorickpeterse: That’s not the point
15:48
<
rue >
The point is to get comfortable with programming in an environment with less pressure. And /then/ integrate
15:49
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15:49
<
rue >
It’d be great if the ‘less pressure’ part was superfluous, but it unfortunately isn’t.
15:50
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15:51
<
yorickpeterse >
this is probably where my opinion differs, but I don't really believe in this "isolate first then intergrate" idea
15:51
<
bryanl >
I think the help Gender X learn how to program in Y is fine
15:51
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15:51
<
rue >
yorickpeterse: Well, that’s too bad…
15:52
<
bryanl >
I need a help black guy convert ruby into idiomatic scala class as of right now
15:52
<
yorickpeterse >
dat English
15:52
<
rue >
bryanl: Enrolment starting soon!
15:52
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15:52
<
bryanl >
yorickpeterse: also if you are a member of the majority, you might not understand how others who are not like you feel. but that's ok
15:53
<
yorickpeterse >
hold on there for a moment
15:53
<
rue >
bryanl: (Also, secret, there’s no such thing as idiomatic scala yet)
15:53
<
bryanl >
rue: well there's something other than what i'm doing ;)
15:53
<
yorickpeterse >
are you implying that because I'm male there's a chance I don't understand the issue?
15:53
<
yorickpeterse >
or the reason why people organize these kind of e vents?
15:53
<
yorickpeterse >
* events
15:54
<
bryanl >
yorickpeterse: yeah i'm implying that. but i'm not going to defend it anymore past the end of this sentence.
15:54
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15:54
<
rue >
I’m not even sure it’s ‘understand’ (=intellectually) vs. ‘feel’
15:55
<
yorickpeterse >
In that case you're pretty darn far from the truth. I'm well aware of it and understand why people organize these events, I just don't necessarily agree with the means
15:55
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15:55
<
yorickpeterse >
as in, "ONLY BOYS/GIRLS/MIX ALLOWED" to me feels like the wrong tool to fix the problem
15:55
<
rue >
It’s not fixing the problem
15:56
<
rue >
It’s helping Group N get into programming
15:56
<
yorickpeterse >
the same applies to attempting to, or to at least make it easier
15:56
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15:56
<
rue >
/That/ will help fix the problem.
15:56
<
yorickpeterse >
Take Rails girls for example. They have this women's only thing too but as far as I know they have no problems with men showing up too
15:56
<
yorickpeterse >
nor do they, at least from what I remember, explicitly state "women only"
15:57
<
rue >
It varies, but is discouraged.
15:57
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15:57
<
yorickpeterse >
maybe it's the Dutch Rails girls then, not sure how it's like in other countries
15:57
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15:58
<
rue >
But basically you’d just have to take it on faith that they believe it’s a good way
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<
jtoy >
how do i turn an array into a hash where the value all equal 1 and the keys are all values in the array?
16:30
<
yorickpeterse >
[10, 20, 30].each_with_object({}) { |number, hash| hash[number] = 1 }
16:30
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16:30
<
yorickpeterse >
something along those lines
16:31
<
jtoy >
something like: Hash.new([1,2 ,3 ,4]) => {1=> 1 2 => 1 3=>1 4=> 1}
16:31
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16:31
<
jperry >
anyone know how much the tix were for rubyconf 2012?
16:31
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16:32
<
yorickpeterse >
jperry: not exactly, but I recall my CTO saying they were somewhere around 1600 USD
16:32
<
yorickpeterse >
or EUR
16:32
<
yorickpeterse >
but I'm not sure if that's actually the case
16:32
<
injekt >
and the boob contribution: Hash[a.zip(Array.new(a.length){1})]
16:33
<
yorickpeterse >
the what?
16:33
<
yorickpeterse >
also wtf
16:33
<
yorickpeterse >
dat code
16:33
<
jperry >
yorickpeterse - thanks
16:33
<
yorickpeterse >
does not exist in Urban dictionary, don't make terms up you terrist
16:34
<
injekt >
yorickpeterse: the bad contribution
16:35
<
yorickpeterse >
boobs are bad? :<
16:36
<
injekt >
yorickpeterse: a boob is also used for an idiot, so the boob contribution (mine) was produced by the idiot (me)
16:36
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16:36
<
injekt >
or "an embarrassing mistake or blunder"
16:37
<
injekt >
"I made a boob"
16:37
<
yorickpeterse >
right, you brits are weird with swearing
16:37
<
injekt >
yes us brits are silly
16:37
<
yorickpeterse >
boob, cunt, etc
16:37
<
injekt >
man I hate that word
16:37
<
yorickpeterse >
hey, at least you lot don't use deadly diseases for swearing
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16:44
<
yorickpeterse >
heh, all these people following me on Twitter and I have no idea who most of them are
16:44
<
injekt >
yorickpeterse: you're a celeb!
16:44
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16:44
<
yorickpeterse >
basecam
16:44
<
yorickpeterse >
fuck
16:44
<
cout >
I still don't get twitter
16:44
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16:44
<
yorickpeterse >
cout << "pfff"
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16:49
<
yorickpeterse >
Right, time to walk for 30 minutes to get some milk so I can have cereal tomorrow
16:49
<
yorickpeterse >
darn public holidays
16:49
<
yorickpeterse >
DARN NOT HAVING A BIKE BECAUSE IT WAS STOLEN
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<
erikh >
injekt: you're a boob
17:26
<
rue >
yorickpeterse: Buy moar bike
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<
erikh >
mr. fartscroll.js
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<
injekt >
are there any glassholes in here?
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18:24
<
yorickpeterse >
rue: I already bought a new one, but I'm waiting for my tires to be done
18:24
<
yorickpeterse >
standard bike tires are shit and will be flat the moment you drive around in this town
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18:32
<
zzak >
is it nap time yet? :(
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<
athaeryn >
why is ruby telling me there's duplicated range in this regex? [^+-<>,.\[\]]
18:52
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19:06
<
apeiros >
athaeryn: it does?
19:06
<
apeiros >
>> /[^+-<>,.\[\]]/
19:06
<
apeiros >
doesn't here…
19:06
<
yorickpeterse >
19>> /[^+-<>,.\[\]]/
19:06
<
yorickpeterse >
quite
19:08
<
athaeryn >
I'm getting "character class has duplicated range: /[^+-<>,.\[\]]/"
19:09
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19:09
<
athaeryn >
I'm using Syntastic in vim, maybe the error is because it's using a weird syntax checker?
19:10
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19:10
<
yorickpeterse >
Aah, eval.in doesn't run with -W2 I believe
19:10
<
yorickpeterse >
Syntastic does
19:11
<
yorickpeterse >
don't remember exactly what the error means though
19:11
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19:21
<
apeiros >
I think +-< does not what you want :)
19:21
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19:21
<
apeiros >
@ athaeryn & yorickpeterse
19:22
<
yorickpeterse >
hmm
19:22
<
yorickpeterse >
HMMM
19:22
<
yorickpeterse >
hm hm
19:22
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19:22
<
athaeryn >
that got rid of the warning. things were working before despite the warning, and work with the
19:22
<
yorickpeterse >
but yeah, that might be it
19:22
<
athaeryn >
what's going on there?
19:22
* yorickpeterse
is stalking his Twitter stalkers to see why they're stalking him
19:22
<
apeiros >
+-< is a range
19:23
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19:23
<
yorickpeterse >
>> 'hello + foo-'.scan /+-</
19:23
<
eval-in >
yorickpeterse => /tmp/execpad-ab93157c7fcb/source-ab93157c7fcb:2: target of repeat operator is not specified: /+-</ (
http://eval.in/24715)
19:23
<
yorickpeterse >
eeehhhh wat
19:23
* yorickpeterse
needs tea
19:23
<
yorickpeterse >
lots of it
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19:26
<
canton7 >
+ is the repeat operator, before you even get near the range
19:26
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19:27
<
athaeryn >
canton7: what does it do when there's nothing before it?
19:27
<
canton7 >
error, apparently
19:27
<
dingus_khan >
can someone explain to me why or how it's possible to use #send without using a symbol name? ruby-docs doesn't mention that scenario...
19:27
<
athaeryn >
canton7: well it worked as i expected, it just gave me a warning..
19:28
<
yorickpeterse >
>> def test; "TEST"; end; send("test")
19:28
<
canton7 >
looks like it works in []
19:28
<
yorickpeterse >
dingus_khan: ^
19:28
<
yorickpeterse >
you can use strings just fine
19:28
<
athaeryn >
canton7: interesting..
19:30
<
dingus_khan >
really...? Why doesn't it say that anywhere? I mean I see that in practice, but no explanations on how just passing it arguments works, or how it even works that way...
19:30
<
yorickpeterse >
not sure, but you can use basically anything that responds to #to_sym I believe (lets find out!)
19:30
<
yorickpeterse >
>> class Derp; def to_sym; "test"; end; end; def test; "TESTING"; end; send(Derp.new)
19:30
<
eval-in >
yorickpeterse => /tmp/execpad-28a851e9b54d/source-28a851e9b54d:2:in `<main>': #<Derp:0x41891318> is not a symbol (TypeError) (
http://eval.in/24717)
19:30
<
yorickpeterse >
heh
19:31
<
yorickpeterse >
fucking MRI
19:31
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19:31
<
yorickpeterse >
so no, String and Symbol only
19:31
<
canton7 >
the docs say Object#send takes a string or a symbol as the first arg
19:31
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19:32
<
dingus_khan >
hmmm...
19:32
<
rickhull >
i've used RUBYLIB in the past
19:32
<
canton7 >
rickhull, strictly? use ruby -I . You see a lot of people doing something like $LOAD_PATH << File.dirname(__FILE__)
19:32
<
canton7 >
(though I think ruby 2.0 has
__dir__ now?)
19:32
<
rickhull >
inside every bin/foo.rb?
19:33
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19:33
<
canton7 >
inside lib/foo.rb
19:33
<
canton7 >
so the one that other people (or your bin) include
19:33
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19:34
<
rickhull >
so bin/foo.rb must: require '../lib/foo' ?
19:35
<
canton7 >
or yeah, probably needs it in bin/foo.rb as well
19:35
<
canton7 >
or call bin/foo.rb as ruby -I lib/ bin/foo.rb
19:35
<
rickhull >
er, sorry, bin/do_foo.rb :)
19:35
<
canton7 >
it doesn't matter when it's packaged as a gem - rubygems sorts out the LOAD_PATH
19:36
<
rickhull >
yes, that is a major (undiscussed) part of my question
19:36
<
rickhull >
i don't have much experience with gem authorship, but that's what i'm wanting to get right. have it work for dev and deployed
19:37
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19:37
<
canton7 >
yeah rubygems adds your lib/ to LOAD_PATH (or some other equivalent, I can't remember)
19:38
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19:38
<
rickhull >
but so then i've got this bootstrap problem only in dev?
19:38
<
rickhull >
or just use RUBYLIB in dev
19:39
<
rickhull >
is there a reference or tutorial for this? i reviewed the rubygems manual
19:40
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19:40
<
canton7 >
about a hundred and one SO answers irrc
19:41
<
rickhull >
i mean, they give you some very local tricks
19:41
<
rickhull >
but not necessarily in the context of gem authorship and the difference between dev and deployed
19:41
<
rickhull >
and i've not seen much advocacy of RUBYLIB, e.g.
19:43
<
rickhull >
what about including things like bundler/setup — should that be done within a gem?
19:43
<
rickhull >
s/include/require/
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19:51
<
rickhull >
it says: inside your app, load up the bundled environment: require 'rubygems'; require 'bundler/setup'
19:51
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19:51
<
rickhull >
but i could have sworn there was a big thing going around a few years ago: DO NOT require 'rubygems'
19:53
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19:54
<
canton7 >
rickhull, you only need to require 'rubygems' in ruby 1.8
19:54
<
erikh >
well, since 1.9 it's less of a choice
19:54
<
canton7 >
..which is going out of support really rather shortly
19:54
<
erikh >
and in 1.8, you were supposed to do it with a loaderror rescue
19:54
<
erikh >
but most rails wanks ignored that
19:54
<
rickhull >
i'm just really fuzzy on the big picture here
19:54
<
canton7 >
in 1.8, rubygems wasn't built into ruby, as it were
19:54
<
canton7 >
you had to include it explicitely
19:55
<
canton7 >
come 1.9, and it's so useful that you get it for free
19:55
<
rickhull >
why is the bundler front page telling me to do that?
19:55
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19:55
<
canton7 >
so no explicit requires requires
19:55
<
rickhull >
wycats__: ^^
19:55
<
canton7 >
probably because there's no real hamr in 1.9, and just saying 'always require rubygems' covers all cases with minimal confusion
19:55
<
canton7 >
*requires required
19:55
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19:56
<
rickhull >
so the big thing a few years ago about "don't require rubygems" is now obsolete?
19:56
<
rickhull >
i.e. inside your open source projects
19:56
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19:56
<
erikh >
you shouldn't have to require it at all in 1.9+
19:56
<
rickhull >
ok, that is the world i'm living in now
19:57
<
rickhull >
is it best pratice to then require 'bundler/setup'? why doesn't thor do that?
19:57
<
rickhull >
for example...
19:57
<
erikh >
use bundle exec.
19:57
<
erikh >
there are a few instances where it makes sense, but usually it's a great way to get the wrong binstub loading for bundler
19:58
<
rickhull >
is there somewhere this is laid out in detail?
19:58
<
erikh >
... sadly I doubt it.
19:58
<
erikh >
I've been meaning to write a blag on how gem activation works
19:58
* rickhull
shakes fist
19:58
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19:58
<
erikh >
maybe I'll just deal with that then
19:59
<
erikh >
drbrain: btw, when I write that (probably in a week or so), if you don't mind proofreading it for facts and stuff I'll give you a big smelly smoker hug next time I see you
19:59
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20:00
<
rickhull >
erikh: can you give some more detail on why, for example, thor has no references to bundler in the source code, yet the bundler docs all show examples of require'ing various bundler things
20:00
<
rickhull >
wycats__: or maybe you can?
20:02
<
rickhull >
maybe not why, so much. more interested in how. i'm working with a new codebase and trying to debug some require/LOAD_PATH/require_relative things. and bundler is involved
20:02
<
rickhull >
it's clear to me the require structure is kind of fucked, but i'm unclear on what might be wrong or what is the sane way to handle it
20:03
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20:03
<
dingus_khan >
tell me why for loops are bad. go.
20:03
<
rickhull >
you have to manage the loop internals yourself
20:05
<
rickhull >
are the questions i'm asking a sore point, or am i just being really obtuse, or?
20:05
<
erikh >
rickhull: not really
20:05
<
canton7 >
dingus_khan, no advantage over #each, and you get some weird scoping
20:05
<
erikh >
just busy atm
20:05
<
rickhull >
erikh: FIX IT FOR ME NOW
20:05
<
erikh >
give me about an hour -- i'll give you some detailed explanation
20:05
<
rickhull >
you da man <3
20:06
<
erikh >
I need to formalize this for the blag anyhow
20:06
<
dingus_khan >
thanks rickhull and canton7!
20:06
<
canton7 >
iirc for uses #each internally anyway
20:06
<
dingus_khan >
I'll need to investigate what is meant by weird scoping some more, but thanks for at least giving me some kind of answer on that one
20:08
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20:12
<
wycats__ >
The rationale document on gembundler.com isn't bad, depending on what you're trying to find out
20:12
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20:13
<
rickhull >
wycats__: do you develop thor using bundler? why don't i see it in the source code?
20:13
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20:16
<
rickhull >
i mean, i have an inkling of the rationale that bundler shouldn't be embedded in the source code, but that goes against the docs i'm reading at gembundler.com
20:16
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20:16
<
wycats__ >
You use bundler in your APP code
20:16
<
wycats__ >
But library code shouldn't care how it got on the load path
20:17
<
rickhull >
ok, in my case, it's mostly library code, but the project does have some services it wants to kick off
20:18
<
rickhull >
and right now, we have require Pathname.new(__FILE__).realdirpath + '../../vendor/bundle/bundler/setup'
20:18
<
rickhull >
in the bootstrap library stuff
20:18
<
rickhull >
i.e. every library file pulls this in
20:19
<
rickhull >
qq: in my mind, there is lib code, and executables. (i.e. in the bin/ subdir) is there anything ~more~ meant by "app code"
20:20
<
rickhull >
outside of web apps, say
20:20
<
rickhull >
i'm fundamentally doing lib development, but with tons of dependencies (that I'd like to whittle down eventually)
20:21
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20:22
<
drbrain >
erikh: sure, but I can skip the hug
20:24
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20:25
<
erikh >
drbrain: heh
20:25
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20:26
<
erikh >
rickhull: so, the problem is subtle for binstubs
20:26
<
erikh >
but gem install thor -v 1.2.3, then put gem thor 1.2.4 in your gemfile
20:26
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20:26
<
erikh >
well, not thor. use rake, it's a little easier to show this with
20:27
<
erikh >
but the point is, when you run "rake foo" and your rakefile has require "bundler/setup", and you have rake in your Gemfile..
20:27
<
erikh >
the non-bundled gem will be activated, then it loads the rakefile, then it loads bundler, and then bundler tries to activate the
*other* rake
20:27
<
rickhull >
i was just using thor as an example, because i went there for an example of what to do
20:27
<
erikh >
which creates a conflict, and everything shits itself
20:27
<
erikh >
if you use "bundle exec rake", this isn't an issue
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20:28
<
erikh >
because bundler gets to activate first. dig?
20:28
<
rickhull >
that makes sense. i asked around over here and got a better explanation of what i'm dealing with
20:28
<
rickhull >
and the Pathname bundler realdirpath stuff is a hacky workaround
20:28
<
erikh >
I'll let you know when the gem activation article is done
20:29
<
rickhull >
cool, i'm still quite interested
20:29
<
erikh >
probably in the next day or two, been meaning to write it for a while now
20:29
<
erikh >
rickhull: btw, we'll be meeting next thursday
20:29
<
erikh >
re: other things
20:29
<
rickhull >
yeah, it's on my calendar :)
20:29
<
rickhull >
also this saturday right?
20:29
<
erikh >
next saturday
20:29
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20:29
<
rickhull >
ok right
20:29
<
erikh >
although, I'm going to be in SF friday night for beers I think
20:29
<
erikh >
interested?
20:29
<
erikh >
in the mission
20:30
<
rickhull >
sure, ping me
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<
erikh >
rue: hip*sters*, sir.
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<
dingus_khan >
nothing?
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22:34
<
dingus_khan >
mmm, quite so
22:34
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22:35
<
erikh >
gistit is the magical sexy new gist tool right?
22:36
<
dingus_khan >
read that as "jizz-tit", not gonna lie
22:36
<
erikh >
you might want to curb the dirty jokes in here
22:36
<
dingus_khan >
I don't come up with these names, it's not my fault!
22:36
<
erikh >
gist is a word
22:36
<
dingus_khan >
and now so is gistit apparently
22:37
<
dingus_khan >
see what I'm sayin'
22:37
<
erikh >
irc is turning me into the hulk today, apparently
22:37
<
dingus_khan >
hulk smash
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<
apeiros >
erikh angry?
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<
dingus_khan >
't me I swear
22:50
<
dingus_khan >
stupid enter
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