apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<fakeer>
On Mac I am trying to install Jekyll. I have latest `Command Lines Tools`installed but not xCode(IDE etc). I am getting this: https://gist.github.com/6848285. Is it because XCode is not installed, or some other problem?
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<flip_digits>
hello
<flip_digits>
I would install xcode and open it. i think you need to accept the license agreement
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<Barrin6>
any of you folks program on ubuntu?
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<igalic>
(I don't speak Clojure.. or any functional language, yet.)
<ddfreyne>
Rich Hickey has the best hair in the world
<ddfreyne>
I use Clojure at work :)
<igalic>
hrm.. does ruby have a += for strings?
<ddfreyne>
igalic: yes, because it is just syntactic sugar for x = x + y
<ddfreyne>
igalic: It does not modify the string, but generates a new one
<ddfreyne>
igalic: #<< will modify the string
<igalic>
tmparg='--virt-auto-boot=' += if value.to_s =~ /false/i then '1' else '0' end says: unexpected tOP_ASGN, expecting keyword_end
<igalic>
Which of those new-age functional programming languages on the JVM was it that has that FRIGHTENING type system?
<xybre>
Java?
<igalic>
haaah.
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<ddfreyne>
igalic: Add () around the if...end
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<igalic>
ddfreyne: nah..I did the += wrong -_- foo = bar += baz << this doesn't work.
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<matled>
igalic: if you really want to do that: x += (if true then "a" else "b" end)
<matled>
oh, ddfreyne said that already
<igalic>
matled: tmparg='--virt-auto-boot=' + if value.to_s =~ /false/i then '1' else '0' end
<matled>
I'd rather put that into a helper method and go args = "--foo=" + to_bool_arg(value), or something along the lines
<igalic>
matled: and so would I. except, that'd be a one-shot method, because sometimes this thing accepts only 0/1, and sometimes it's fine with true/false.
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<igalic>
So I'd have loads of helper methods..
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<ddfreyne>
I am tempted to drop Ruby 1.9.x support for this project... wondering whether that is a smart thing to do ;)
<ddfreyne>
(It'll be finished in Q1 2014 at the earliest)
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<[spoiler]>
Did anyone ever attempt to use opal.rb (http://opalrb.org/) in productiopn?
<[spoiler]>
production*
<adambeynon>
[spoiler]: we have a few sites that are using it (Im the author, btw)
<adambeynon>
and there are a few other people using it
<[spoiler]>
adambeynon: Oh, that's great! I played with it a lot, and it seemed pretty robust, but I thought I'd ask here anyway. :-) It's great work, by the way!
<adambeynon>
thanks! I will update the website with a link to some apps/sites using opal to get an idea of who is using it. I've got to go, but ping me if you need any help/direction etc
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<micho>
is keeping, all the references to instances of class, in class variable, a good idea?
<ddfreyne>
micho: No, because you'll prevent the garbage collector from ever reclaiming that memory
<ddfreyne>
micho: An alternative would be weak references, but I think you should reconsider your approach
<ddfreyne>
micho: Can you explain why you need that?
<micho>
sure. I am making a sinatra app, which downloads info of about ~30 users from API, and output them(somehow parsed) in many ways.
<micho>
I have a class which downloads the data and creates a single instances of Users class, and fills them
<[spoiler]>
micho: if you think you will need to keep that data indefinitely, then you should store them. If you think they're a one-time thing I can't possibly think of a reason why you'd store them
<micho>
I'll refresh them every minute
<ddfreyne>
micho: I'd create a UsersCache, maybe with a #refresh method
<micho>
what UsersCache would be? a class?
<micho>
I'd like to call them like Users.all, but I don't want to bring all active record from Rails, I won't use any database
<ddfreyne>
A class that you instantiate and it would store the user information at the instance level
<[spoiler]>
Well, if you have something like: @@users_cache = [User, User, User, User, User], and if you override/replace the array, then the GC will clean it up eventually
<ddfreyne>
micho: Classes should never have state. Singletons are evil if they have state, classes are singletons, and classes with state are evil.
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<micho>
so @@users_cache = [User, User, User...] is a good approach, or not? It was my primary idea.
<ddfreyne>
I would advise against that
<micho>
we're talking about keeping like <100 users this way
<ddfreyne>
micho: It might be <100 users today, but it's a good thing to keep scalability in mind, because things tend to grow anyway
<micho>
sure, it's just why I am asking
<[spoiler]>
I don't think there's anything wrong with it? If you remove the user out of users_cache, the GC will destroy the User object, if you replace @@users_cache with a completely new array, the User objects will be destroyed, but a bit later, I reckon
<ddfreyne>
Besides, applying good practices is always a good idea. That means *not* having global state, and @@users_cache is global state and you should avoid that.
<micho>
ok, so I'll need to call Downloader, that way: cache = Services::API_Parser.new; tallest_users = Services::API_Parser.tallest_users(cache) ?
<micho>
*Downloader = API_Parser, just to give the name better meaning
<[spoiler]>
ddfreyne: What would be the alternative approach, then? Having a UsersCache doesn't solve the problem, ihmo.
<[spoiler]>
I could only think of ObjectSpace.each_object User {|u| ... }, but that's definitely a bad idea
<ddfreyne>
[spoiler]: I believe it does.
<ddfreyne>
Yeah, avoid that at all costs
<micho>
I thought about something like Users#all_objects, but such a thing doesn't exist yet
<[spoiler]>
ddfreyne: Isn't this similar to storing them in an array, though?
<ddfreyne>
[spoiler]: Sure
<ddfreyne>
[spoiler]: My main concern is using global state
<[spoiler]>
ddfreyne: I must admit, the performance benefit completely eludes me. Apart from there being a global state (which, for the given example I think is perfectly acceptable), I genuinely can't fathom why an array is a bad idea!
<ddfreyne>
[spoiler]: I'm not complaining about the array itself, but I am complaining about global state
<lupine>
lookups will scale O(n)
<ddfreyne>
It's not perfectly acceptable because global state makes testing a lot harder than it should be
<lupine>
global state is pretty meh
<ddfreyne>
(Actually, arrays are not quite OK because as lupine says, searching through that will take O(n))
<lupine>
but it keeps line count down
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<[spoiler]>
lupine: but, wouldn't the lookup increase with the UsersStore+UsersCache method, too? I'm just curious
<lupine>
hash keyed by id - or a set - would be fine
<ddfreyne>
[spoiler]: It all depends on your use case.
<ddfreyne>
If you want to look up users by ID, you need a mapping of ID->user for which a hash is a good data structure, as opposed to an array
<[spoiler]>
Oh, I completely agree with that, but I assumed he didn't need to look-up individual users. The way I understood it was: he just wanted to have a list and export the users in some form
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<ddfreyne>
Again, depends on the use case. Just avoid global state :)
<ddfreyne>
Class variables shoud never have existed in the first place IMO
<[spoiler]>
Can you portray a short example where (or when or how or all of the afformentioned) global state is bad? I know why global *variables* are bad, no idea about global states, though. I always thought it's useful to keep track of things
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<lupine>
global variables are just one form of global state. they're bad for the same reasons
<lupine>
I've just tried, and can't think of a good use for @@vars
<[spoiler]>
Well, global variables are bad because they pollute the namespace (afaik, that's the only bad thing about them).
<[spoiler]>
Oh, and I suppose, if it's a multi-threaded app, you'd have to be careful which thread writes-reads from it, and in the the case of multiple back-ends, the state won't be that *global* across all backends
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<micho>
I am back
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<micho>
now parsing in my mind, what you have wrote
<micho>
(thanks for answers for all of you)
<[spoiler]>
Oh, welcome back! :D
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<micalexander>
I'm writing a program the allows a user to drag a folder into the terminal in order to retrieve the directory path, however if the user has a folder with a space in the name I need to be able to remove the escaped backslash. Any ideas
<micalexander>
?
<micalexander>
Ive used gsub(/\\/, "") but it doesn't remove the slash
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<ljarvis>
ohai
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<[spoiler]>
Heya
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<[spoiler]>
Fgs. This is giving me a headache. How would one go about keeping a list of all (for example) connected users without using global state? How do you have a list without using an actual list?!
<whitequark>
you do not
<whitequark>
there naturally must exist some global state.
<whitequark>
if you think about it, a list of TCP connections which your OS keeps *is* global state
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<whitequark>
I'd solve it by packing all that state in, say, a Server class and instantiating it once. Or not once, 'cause why not?
<[spoiler]>
But, someone earlier claimed global state is bad. I have no idea what they were getting at, then!
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<[spoiler]>
I spent all day researching it, and I kept coming to the conclusion that it is not possible.
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<heftig>
[spoiler]: in the interest of keeping your code from becoming a spaghetti mess, you should strive to limit the scope of state as much as possible
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<heftig>
that doesn't mean you cannot use global state
<[spoiler]>
I'd quote, but I am on my phone right now, but the person either said "never use global state" or "avoid global state at all costs" I think it was the former
<MrZYX>
so I guess the other question is why do you need that list, is it really impossible to implement the feature you need without it?
<whitequark>
[spoiler]: it's simply not possible to not have any global state
<[spoiler]>
Oh, I don't need it, someone asked a question earlier and I responded, but the person complained that there's global state in the example and it thus became invalid. I'm guess the user wants to print the user data. no idea.
<whitequark>
there's something you use to hook up to the OS. say, an event loop
<[spoiler]>
MrZYX: previous message was for you, btw
<MrZYX>
sure
<[spoiler]>
So, I am trying to find an alternative all day, and they all involve global state in some form
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<imperator>
anyone here used the atomic gem? I'm trying to figure out how to create an atomic hash, but I'm having trouble setting keys
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<imperator>
a = Atomic.new({}); a.try_update{ |h| h[:foo] = 1 } # a.value is now 1 instead of {:foo => 1}
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<[spoiler]>
Hmm. Perhaps the return value of the block is what assigned to a. Did you try printing H out?
<[spoiler]>
what's *
<[spoiler]>
because the []= operator returns the assigned value
<imperator>
yeah, that must be what it does
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<[spoiler]>
a.try_update{ |h| {foo: 1} } perhaps
<imperator>
so i'll just make sure h is returned last
<imperator>
a.try_update{ |h| h[:foo] = 1; h } # works
<[spoiler]>
oops, I meant to write h=
<imperator>
well, i hope it does under the hood anyway
<[spoiler]>
yeah, that should do the trick
<[spoiler]>
try reading the source
<[spoiler]>
that always sheds light!
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<imperator>
bleh, didn't work out
<[spoiler]>
To the source, then!
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<imperator>
eh, i think it's more my problem domain
<imperator>
basically, i need a volatile hash variable for an ffi program
<imperator>
not sure what to do
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<zzak>
imperator: i think fiddle calls this a freefunc
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<imperator>
fiddle?
<imperator>
that thing irb is always warning me about?
<zzak>
that's the one
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<imperator>
zzak, you're takling at rubyconf 2013, right?
<zzak>
imperator: yes sir!
<imperator>
congrats
<zzak>
thanks :D
<ljarvis>
zzak: nice
<ljarvis>
zzak: did you check out brussels much?
<zzak>
1 month to learn 4 languages!
<zzak>
and make a talk about them
<zzak>
ljarvis: i basically havent left the airbnb since i got here, been working :(
<ljarvis>
zzak: :/
<zzak>
and im spent after the drinkup
<ljarvis>
zzak: grand place is impressive check it out before you leave, if nowhere else
<ljarvis>
also, waffle factory is <3
<zzak>
my flight is in the morning
<ljarvis>
well that sucks
<zzak>
:(
<zzak>
there is always next year
<ljarvis>
yeah
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<ljarvis>
zzak: I have like 30 mosquito bites :(
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<zzak>
lol
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<zzak>
that sucks bro
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<[spoiler]>
When I got asked by Santa as a kid, I literally responded: "death to mosquitos". My mum has it on tape. I was around 5, I reckon
<[spoiler]>
what I want for Christmas *
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<ljarvis>
i guess you were on the bad list that year
<omninonsense>
Clearly.
<omninonsense>
oh, nick changed!
<omninonsense>
oh right, because my connection died. :/
<omninonsense>
gtfo, shit isp
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<[spoiler]>
there there.
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