apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<yorickpeterse> lawl, somebody is viewing one of our products on IE 8 on Windows Server 2003 apparently
<yorickpeterse> (we know because the JS craps out)
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<ddfreyne> IE should be made illegal!
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<yorickpeterse> Today I poop Gems
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<yorickpeterse> and hopefully at least 2 of those will be open sauce
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<yorickpeterse> quick threading question: writing (just writing) to a file was thread-safe in Ruby right?
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<yorickpeterse> I recall reading some blag about it but can't find it
<yorickpeterse> (order doesn't matter in this case)
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<yorickpeterse> fukit, mutex
<gnufied> it depends on what you mean by thread safety! the data will be jumbled.
<gnufied> there are no mutexes or anything to serialize writes
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<yorickpeterse> Well, seeing how it would be write only I'm not sure how much of an issue it would be, but I slapped a mutex in just to be sure
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<rindolf> Hi all.
<rindolf> Is Sinatra built on top of Rails? Someone on ##programming claims it is.
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<joonty> rindolf: no, but they both use rack
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<gnufied> yorickpeterse: actually, I was wrong. there is a mutex that prevents that sort of thing, https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/io.c#L1264
<gnufied> you don't need your own locks
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<rindolf> joonty: thanks!
<joonty> rindolf: no problem. Sinatra is a lot slimmer than rails, so if anything rails would be built on top of sinatra. But it's not :)
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<yorickpeterse> gnufied: hmmm
<yorickpeterse> interesting enough #puts does introduce issues where it doesn't put stuff on a new line
<yorickpeterse> at least when using STDOUT
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<gnufied> writing to tty uses different methods
<gnufied> so I am not surprised
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<yorickpeterse> Ah
<yorickpeterse> but in that case I have to leave the lock in place since I also want to support STDOUT and friends
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<yorickpeterse> oh neat, a race condition that completely ignores my mutex
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<yorickpeterse> boom, Gem https://github.com/olery/logstash-file
<yorickpeterse> if we didn't have enough Logstash libraries already
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<gnufied> yay!
<gnufied> nice logo
<yorickpeterse> Yeah totally self made
<gnufied> inkscape?
<yorickpeterse> .... it's the official logstash logo
<yorickpeterse> it's not mine :P
<yorickpeterse> (hence the link to their page)
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<yorickpeterse> I need to get a cheap little table so I can flip it
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<maloik> yorickpeterse: I want a tilt room
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<maloik> for the uninitiated (:D), 'tilting' means when you go nuts over something unlucky/unforseen happening to you in poker
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<maloik> that clip is from a reality show where 3 or 4 guys try to earn 2M in 2 months on online poker
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<maloik> they rented a villa and actually used one room as a tilt room... that clip isn't even the best clip :D
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<maloik> they'd go out on shopping sprees buying vases and statuettes etc or just fruit and what not to whack on
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<yorickpeterse> "This video is currently unavailable"
<maloik> fail
<maloik> wut, it works here
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<Trapper> Can you guys run this code okay?
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<micalexander> Using Refexp.union(/pattern1/,/pattern2/,/pattern3/), how can I assign these matches to variables
<micalexander> It seems to give me multiple strings
<apeiros> huh?
<apeiros> Regex.union gives you a regex, not matches
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<micalexander> yeah so what it gives me back it the match to my regex right
<apeiros> o0
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<micalexander> how do I assign those
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<micalexander> apeiros: what do you mean by oO
<micalexander> or o0
<apeiros> it's a questioning look
<bean__> as in O.o
<bean__> o.O
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<apeiros> again, the return value of Regexp.union is a Regexp instance. not a match.
<apeiros> to get a match, you must match the resulting regex against a string.
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<bean__> So, Regexp.union("sledding","skiing") gives you a regexp of /skiing|sledding/
<bean__> not any form of a match
<imperator> TIL there's a Regexp.union method, cool
<micalexander> apeiros: I must be using the wrong verbiage then and reading a file and and am doing file.each_line, if line =~ Refexp.union(/pattern1/,/pattern2/,/pattern3/). when I do puts line I get a three strings of the what it found based on my patterns entered
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<apeiros> micalexander: you wrote Refexp now twice
<apeiros> you're aware it's Regexp?
<micalexander> I am
<micalexander> it was a copy and paste from a mispelling
<apeiros> and line =~ regex matches against line. it returns the offset at which the string matched the regex.
<apeiros> and you assign the result of =~ just like you assign everything else - with a =
<apeiros> result = line =~ regex
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<micalexander> apeiros: so there is no super cool way to just have them assigned dynamically. Sense Im using a each_line do, I actually want to add each result to a hash dynamically
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<apeiros> I don't really get what you want
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<micalexander> apeiros: I want each of the Regexp.union(/pattern1/,/pattern2/,/pattern3/), found pattern to be assigned like so: { one: pattern1. two: pattern2, three: pattern3}
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<yorickpeterse> GUYS GUYS
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<yorickpeterse> This just in: one dumbass couldn't find his missing part of his brain and behave so lets condemn an entire community of thousands on unrelated men and women
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<yorickpeterse> and calling people to not attend Ruby conferences is totally going to solve the problem
<yorickpeterse> ugh, grrrrr
* yorickpeterse shakes fist
<havenwood> So looking forward to RubyConf in Miami!!
<tubbo> same
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<havenwood> yorickpeterse: Not attend conferences? Why? Says who?
<yorickpeterse> so tl;dr some nerd sexually assaulted a woman, got called out on it (different perspectives) and now people are basically saying the entire Ruby community is bad and that you shouldn't attend Ruby conferences
<yorickpeterse> lemme find dem blags
<yorickpeterse> http://blogjustine.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/because-it-needs-to-be-said/ WARNING, MIGHT MAKE YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE
<yorickpeterse> PROBABLY 18+
<tubbo> who's "people"
<yorickpeterse> "TwitteR"
<yorickpeterse> * r
<yorickpeterse> e.g.
<tubbo> and are they the same "people" who said rails doesn't scale, ruby is slow, and javascript is better?
<tubbo> e.g. visionmedia :P
<yorickpeterse> probably, not sure about that
<yorickpeterse> hold on
<tubbo> most likely
<tubbo> if it came from the JS community lol
<yorickpeterse> https://twitter.com/steveklabnik numero uno
<yorickpeterse> in particular...
<tubbo> lol
<wmoxam> yorickpeterse: I thought the idea was to not attend confs where the molester is going to attend
<yorickpeterse> wmoxam: HEY
<yorickpeterse> DON'T BE SO RATIONAL
* yorickpeterse gives wmoxam a clout round the head with a fresh copy of WeeChat
<tubbo> yorickpeterse: at least it's not irssi amirite
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* wmoxam uses irssi
<tubbo> i think DHH's reply to that sums up how i feel about this particular situation
<wmoxam> :p
<tubbo> wmoxam: "a few extra pounds"
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<tubbo> trololoooooooooooooooooooool
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<yorickpeterse> I probably shouldn't get started about this at this point because I'll quite literally end up grabbing the first nerd within arm's reach, shake him violently while yelling "WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND? WHAT YEAR IS IT"
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<yorickpeterse> Suuure
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<yorickpeterse> Having met steve I'm really not sure so I'm not going to judge it too much, though I do think his emotions are more in control than himself
<yorickpeterse> (which imho can be quite dangerous)
<yorickpeterse> though maybe that's because I'm more of a machine in that regard
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<tubbo> i have a feeling steve holds a lot more back when talking IRL, much like every other human on the planet
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<tubbo> it's nothing to do with people's understanding of the subject and everything to do with people's undying need to argue with each other over everything
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<tubbo> like this was a sexual assault that happened at a bar that involved people nobody in this channel knows. it's really not that uncommon, sorry to say. i don't go on Twitter tirades every time a girl i know gets cat-called on the street or gets unwanted advances placed on them in a public setting...
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<tubbo> it's not part of the "women in tech problem", it's a horrible thing that happened but it happens and being adults about it is probably the best solution :\
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<mistym> tubbo: Just a reminder that "sexual assault" and "catcalls" are different levels of severity
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<csaunders> ^
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<tubbo> alright
<mistym> If sexual assault has become a norm within a community than that is a *serious fucking problem* and the community needs to get its shit together
<tubbo> so substitute cat-called for raped or sexual assaulted, and my argument is still valid.
<tubbo> mistym: it's not a "norm" within OUR community, it's a common problem that occurs in humanity on planet earth.
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<tubbo> so that's why we need to overcome it and band together as a community to help these people out, not go on a witch hunt about what to ban next
<tubbo> or what to do/not to do @ confs, or even to go to conferences at all
<tubbo> if anything we should be giving justine and her friends emotional support, and joe o'brien some psychological help
<tubbo> if we were a true community, we'd be doing that instead of expressing our angst in the most childish way possible
<mistym> Being angry about sexual assault happening is not "childish"
<tubbo> that's not what i said. i said reacting in the way that some members of the ruby community have reacted is.
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<tubbo> if i really feel strongly about the issue, wouldn't it make sense to somehow help the people involved and ensure that in our community this doesn't happen as often as it happens outside of the community?
<tubbo> if so, how can i do that?
<csaunders> yes.
<csaunders> We can start encouraging safe spaces. If we want to keep the drinking events, then having alt events are something
<csaunders> lots of groups have started doing boardgames and such
<mistym> Yes, exactly. This is why the discussion of "are Ruby conferences safe spaces, can we make them safe spaces?" is happening.
<apeiros> talking about it helps
<tubbo> ^
<apeiros> I'm happy that those women had the courage to tell their stories
<csaunders> While it's unfortunate to have to break the groups up: 2 different events, it helps keep everyone comfortable
<apeiros> perpetrators prosper in silence.
<apeiros> silence is implicit acceptance.
<tubbo> yeah that's true
<csaunders> It would be cool to see some other events as well. I was thinking maybe group sporting events, though they do have beer… but I'd say a baseball or hockey game is a somewhat safe environment
<mistym> Exactly. Saying "don't talk about it" helps keep the cycle going, and tone-policing keeps the conversation from happening.
<tubbo> i just wish the chatter was more positive, like "how can we make this better", and not scare-mongering, like "DON'T GO TO RUBY CONFS!"
<csaunders> Like people aren't limited to just doing safe events at boardgame cafes or whatever.
<mistym> Steve already apologized for that comment, fwiw
<csaunders> tubbo: He admitted the fault
<tubbo> he's not the only one who made that error.
<csaunders> It's easy to generalized when you are sad, angry or frustrated
<tubbo> csaunders: especially if you look at the post time...2:30 am... :)
<tubbo> mister drunk tweets
<csaunders> European time?
<tubbo> is that where he is now? i thought he was bouncing between pittsburgh and L.A.
<csaunders> ¯\(°_o)/¯
<tubbo> i always see him posting beautiful shots of santa monica on vine and it makes me want to go
<apeiros> nice emo :D
<tubbo> hah
<csaunders> thought maybe he was in the EU… regardless
<tubbo> csaunders: it's like the computer from hitchhiker's guide
<tubbo> :D
<tubbo> (your emoticon)
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<csaunders> apeiros: the only thing text expander is useful for
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<csaunders> anyway… Yes. Negative rarely breeds anything postive or useful.
<tubbo> aaaanyway, would anyone here be really opposed to drinking going away from conferences?
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<csaunders> tubbo: Some might, I really don't care… I find it just destroys you anyway. I never sleep well
<tubbo> i would not give a shit, but i also feel kinda sad that "we can't have nice things" like a beer or two because 1 guy can't keep control of his actions
<tubbo> seems ridiculous
<csaunders> but I *loooooove* tasting all the good beer in 'merica
<tubbo> yeah i'm not advocating getting drunk at all, there's such a thing as "responsible use", especially around THE PEOPLE WHO PAY YOU...
* imperator is all about boardgames
<csaunders> indeed
<tubbo> now *there* is a conf i won't be attending
<tubbo> i have plenty better things to do than play monopoly with a bunch of nerds
<csaunders> just no AGoT :P
<tubbo> no offense but that sounds way less fun than going to a bar.
<imperator> tubbo, srsly?
<tubbo> yarly
<csaunders> tubbo: what games are you thinking of.
<imperator> you haven't experienced the board gaming revolution apparently
<csaunders> There's some pretty good ones out there
<tubbo> just in general
<tubbo> imperator: "the revolution will not be televised, it will be rolled on dice"
<csaunders> tubbo: That's fine. I say have the pub events still, just keep alt events open so people who don't like that stuff have an alternative
<tubbo> csaunders: i'm down with that, definitely. there are some of us who don't go to the pub events because they don't like the atmosphere of those loud drinking places
<csaunders> But like you say, boardgames might turn people off. Maybe it's because they don't know about everything, or maybe they legitimately don't like boardgames
<imperator> ticket to ride, settlers of catan, carcassone, netrunner, puerto rico, power grid.....
<tubbo> so this would lump those people in
<tubbo> sorry i'm just like, not interested at all in board games. just like you probably aren't interested in listening to a lot of bad electronic music so you find the 1 or 2 gems that you can DJ
<csaunders> It's why it would be cool if there were other alts. Like maybe a guided city tour for outsiders, or something? Sports games?
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<tubbo> it sounds tedious...and it is. it's very boring and sometimes you get nothing. :)
<csaunders> Dunno, at Nickel City I went and say a Leafs vs Sabres game
<csaunders> was awesome
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<imperator> tubbo, i got matt darey on right now ;)
<yorickpeterse> god damn it now I have to read a backlog
<tubbo> csaunders: lol sports games? now we'll have a problem with ruby developers being thrown out of stadiums for getting too rowdy ;)
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<tubbo> imperator: boom :D
<yorickpeterse> ok done
<tubbo> haha
<tubbo> yorickpeterse: reading comprehension 200%
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<imperator> ferry corsten, dj gt vs project c, yada yada
<csaunders> tubbo: Yeah… it's just coming up with stuff. That might be accessible.
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<yorickpeterse> tubbo: I just skimmed through it
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<yorickpeterse> Case in point, IT may be a sexist industry in general but at least from what I know (a fairly limited view) it's also an industry with a lot of people actively campaigning/trying to fight it
<tubbo> imperator: heh, i've been listening to a lot of UK Garage recently...i started listening to electronic music right between the heyday of trance and the heyday of dubstep
<yorickpeterse> Thus you'd probably hear more about it
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<tubbo> so i listened to the old trance when i was younger but never went out to hear it spun...now that i can go out i spin house and uk garage and jungle
<tubbo> i love UKG because it's basically like a combo of house and jungle, as well as some old raver hardcore mixed in
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<yorickpeterse> Guess I should get myself a Medium blog and blag about it, post it on HN
<yorickpeterse> then have a bunch of neckbeards try to justify all this
<yorickpeterse> "SHEEE WAS TOOOOOTALLLLYY ASKING FOR IT, I MEAN LOOK AT THAT, SHE'S NOT WEARING A NIQAB!"
<yorickpeterse> grrr
<csaunders> tubbo: question for you. You like 4X style games like Civilization, Gal Civ, Sins of a Solar empire, etc?
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<tubbo> csaunders: yeah. i used to play axis and allies and diplomacy a lot, actually. i also am a big fan of RTS and FPS games
<tubbo> csaunders: but i don't play any video games anymore, sadly.
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<tubbo> or games in general
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<imperator> twilight imperium, space empires 4x, eclipse - you would like those i think
<csaunders> tubbo: understandable. Well there's boardgames like that --- ^^^
<csaunders> what I was going to say imperator. Stole my thunder! :P
<yorickpeterse> Monopoly is still the best boardgame
<csaunders> ಠ_ಠ
<tubbo> yeah...so i liked those games but it was really a pain to set it up
<yorickpeterse> Best way to ruin friendships
* imperator slaps yorickpeterse with a trout
* yorickpeterse gives imperator a hearty slap
<yorickpeterse> WHY DOES IT NOT USE MY CUSTOM ONES DAMN IT
* yorickpeterse likes slapping people and randomly picks yorickpeterse to slap
<yorickpeterse> oh ffs
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<imperator> stop hitting yourself
<yorickpeterse> hehe
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<imperator> tubbo, never got into some of the other genres, pretty much stuck with vocal trance
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<imperator> though i'm not all that clear on the classification system, either, so it's possible i like some things from those other types of music without realizing what they're called
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<imperator> yorickpeterse, best way to ruin friendships? monopoly or diplomacy? ;)
<yorickpeterse> there's no diplomacy in monopoly
<yorickpeterse> it's all about crushing the opposition
<imperator> "Diplomacy" is a game :)
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<imperator> Henry Kissinger's favorite, supposedly
<yorickpeterse> Is that a game where nothing ever happens?
<imperator> no, that's monopoly
<tubbo> imperator: yeah. i typically check the trance charts for gems. people have no idea sometimes when i play out the tracks.
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<tubbo> i check all kinds of charts and areas to hear music because you never know when you're gonna find that track that everyone else is too stupid to look for
<csaunders> I'm all about the eurogames…
<csaunders> love that worker placement
* imperator is more of a wargamer
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<csaunders> though I do kinda like space stuff like Merchant of Venus
<imperator> though i do like some euros, too - dominant species is pretty much the only worker placement i like
<yxhuvud> diplomacy is the game when nothing much happens, and then you get backstabbed and die horribly.
<csaunders> imperator, miniatures a la war machine?
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<imperator> nah, not miniatures, more like historical wargames, the gmt stuff for example
<csaunders> ah
<csaunders> i have Twilight Imperium. Played it with the lady once. Got confused :(
<csaunders> Err… Twilight Struggle*
<imperator> spqr, close action, russian campaign, paths of glory, etc
<imperator> yeah, that one is popular, though i don't really consider it a wargame
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<imperator> seems to appeal to eurogamers since it's a sort of area control game really
<csaunders> haha yeah
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<imperator> yxhuvud, no, YOU get stabbed in the back, sucker! ;)
<yorickpeterse> imperator: clearly you've never played Monopoly with me
<imperator> "this fleet in the english channel? oh, purely defensive reasons."
<yorickpeterse> more like "I already crushed your country under my iron boot"
<yorickpeterse> (that's more like Risk btw)
<yorickpeterse> Cards against humanity is pretty fun too
<yorickpeterse> though it requires...a certain mindset
<imperator> best played with booze and close friends i suspect
<imperator> never played it myself, though
<yorickpeterse> yup
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<apeiros> 21:16 yorickpeterse: "SHEEE WAS TOOOOOTALLLLYY ASKING FOR IT, I MEAN LOOK AT THAT, SHE'S NOT WEARING A NIQAB!"
<apeiros> this
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<apeiros> when I read about muslimic countries requiring niqabs, I always think "wow, their men must have weak morale if they need that"
<tubbo> yo
<apeiros> and now I look what happens here…
<tubbo> yorickpeterse: i have played cards against humanity
<Trapper> Muslimic haha
<Trapper> *islamic
<apeiros> blerp
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: The few islamic families that I've dealt with in close relationships were very complicated ones, so I'm not sure if it's simply that
<yorickpeterse> Mind you that at least they were progressive regarding clothing
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: of course it isn't. but it gets used as rationale.
<yorickpeterse> Though certainly the part of men fearing women becoming more powerful (or as equal) plays a role
<apeiros> IMO it's a tool of suppression
<apeiros> or it's become one
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<yorickpeterse> It's interesting to see how various countries, e.g. Afghanistan, were actually totally different during the 80s
<yorickpeterse> basically before the Taliban/US fucked everythig up
<yorickpeterse> (US army that is, not the people in general)
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<yorickpeterse> The most interesting part for me is always how people can defend these things like sexual misbehaviour, supression, etc
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<yorickpeterse> As in, I don't always get how somebody can be so fundamentally broken at their core that they think it's allright
<yorickpeterse> well, I never get that actually
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<yorickpeterse> In that same category falls people not understanding why timezones are hard
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<yorickpeterse> guess it's time for #ruby-yorick-whitequark-politics
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<Trapper> Gentlemen, if I may interject
<Trapper> FileUtils.cp('root/file.txt','root/')
<Trapper> That should duplicate file.txt in the root directory
<imperator> one would think
<Trapper> but it doesn't, because 'file.txt' already exists
<mistym> Trapper: Not to be a jerk, but this channel is not all gentlemen ;)
<imperator> i think there's a :force => true option but don't quote me on it
<Trapper> but how can I rename the copied file?
<Trapper> maybe timestamp it?
<imperator> huh?
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<imperator> FileUtils.cp('root/file.txt', 'root/whatever.txt')
<Trapper> Oh.
<Trapper> That's easy enough.
<Trapper> mistym: My apologies :)
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: but timezones aren't hard! :(
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<apeiros> neither are encodings or different bases for numbers. but I start to think that's just me :-|
<Trapper> imperator: Thanks a lot!
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros: yeah man, you just subtract N hours from the date and you have UTC, right?
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<yorickpeterse> RITE?
<yorickpeterse> (or add)
<yorickpeterse> nevermind that one city that has a 1,5 hour offset, and god forbid those nerds using DST
<apeiros> DST ain't timezones, though
<yorickpeterse> No, but it's related
<apeiros> (yes, yes, I'm aware that timezone names encode dst with it)
<apeiros> but DST: yes, that's hard.
<apeiros> because it's not algorithmic.
<apeiros> 1.5h is N=1.5 :)
<yorickpeterse> also every year each month has the same amount of days
<apeiros> but I think india is 5.5h, not 1.5h ;-)
<apeiros> yeah, people thinking month-based durations were valid suck :(
<apeiros> you can only have intervals, not durations, if you have months/years.
<apeiros> (interval = start+end, start+duration or end+duration)
<yorickpeterse> Oh, names are also fun
<yorickpeterse> "Everybody tooootally has a first name, last name and optionally a middle name right?"
<yorickpeterse> of course everybody is also addressed the order of first name -> last name
<yorickpeterse> grrr
* yorickpeterse can go on for hours, as this channel will most likely already know
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<Trapper> How do you reckon I should test to see if a file has changed before duplicating it?
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<Trapper> I just can't think
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<yorickpeterse> The normal approach is to store some kind of hash (e.g. a SHA1 hash) based on the content
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<momomomomo> yorickpeterse: Trapper it depends
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<momomomomo> If you're doing this check to see if a PDF contents have changed, then a hash won't work
<yorickpeterse> true
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<Trapper> It's just a plain text file
<Trapper> :)
<momomomomo> ie: the hash may be different due to a timestamp in the file format somewhere, so you'd probably want to check size & contents
<imperator> Trapper, FileStat#mtime
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<rickhull> anyone familiar with serverspec in here?
<rickhull> i'm having some trouble using it as the docs indicate, and I'm wondering if there are workarounds, or i'm also tempted to fork the project
<rickhull> my main complaints are: it pushes you towards one-test-per-remote-command, and each remote command is a separate ssh session
<rickhull> and it seems to be reinventing a lot of wheels by implementing rspec matchers and whatnot, that seem to me redundant against what e.g. minitest/spec provides
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<rickhull> so i'm thinking about adding a minitest front-end to complement or replace rspec
<rickhull> and looking at making the backend ssh stuff more session-efficient
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<rickhull> my specific problem: running a remote shell command which hits remote APIs and returns many lines of output
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<rickhull> i'd like to have several independent tests of that output, rather than trying to specify what it should be a in a single giant regex
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<rickhull> from what i understand of serverspec so far, i would need to execute the command remotely for each output test, and each remote execution requires a new ssh session
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<rickhull> really i just want serverspec to help run the command once, and provide nice tests/assertions for the output
<yorickpeterse> I hate pizzas
<yorickpeterse> Bought brand Y again, forgot I can't properly prepare it in my microwave/oven
<yorickpeterse> clearly the problem here is the pizza
<Trapper> yorickpeterse: haha
<yorickpeterse> rickhull: serverspec?
<Trapper> can I use regex with the glob Dir.glob("lib/tasks**/**")
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<yorickpeterse> Trapper: No, but you can use limited patterns
<rickhull> yorickpeterse: http://serverspec.org/
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<yorickpeterse> e.g. **/* matches everything recursively
<yorickpeterse> {foo,bar} matches foo or bar
<yorickpeterse> (run `ri Dir.glob`)
<yorickpeterse> rickhull: hm no, never seen it
<imperator> rickhull, so...run the command once and provide nice tests for the output
<rickhull> mmmhmm
<imperator> whatever the equivalent of self.startup is for minitest to get your output
<imperator> then the rest of the test suite runs based on that output
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: heh, yes, addresses are hard
<rickhull> yeah, i mean i think serverspec can let me capture the output once
<apeiros> we have partner companies which want street name and number in separate fields
<rickhull> imperator: but i'm not familiar enough with all the rspec DSL crap to do it
<apeiros> just that some addresses in our lovely country have the street number in front of the street name (thanks, french)
<rickhull> imperator: i.e. the serverspec docs don't hold my hand, here
* imperator vaguely recalls a video about how addresses work in japan
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: oh yeah those too
<yorickpeterse> imperator: they're just numbers basically
<rickhull> btw, having dipped my toes in the rspec water years ago, but then *really* learning minitest/spec, rspec is just revolting in comparison
<yorickpeterse> "Tokyo building 1234-137a, blabla ward"
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: phone numbers are fun too
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: yupp
<yorickpeterse> mostly because every single person has a different opinion on the format
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: but for phone numbers I found a somewhat reasonable gem
* yorickpeterse hates people who separate the numbers in groups of 3
<rickhull> blowmage: yeah, potentially. remember though that serverspec is implemented in rspec, not minitest/spec
<apeiros> but I must not tell you about the atrocities stored in our DB… (no input sanitation/validation for years…)
<rickhull> if i had my way and implemented a minitest front-end for serverspec, then yeah, my problem would already be solved
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<Trapper> How could I write a glob pattern that matches the end of a file name
<imperator> derek sivers made that video, that's why i remember it
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros: heh, we do names wrong (surprise)
<yorickpeterse> (first, middle and last name separately)
<blowmage> rickhull: i don't know serverspec
<yorickpeterse> we even call them first_name, surname and surname_prefix ffs
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* yorickpeterse intends to just replace that with "name" in the near future
<rickhull> blowmage: yeah, my main complaint is that serverspec's rspec approach means reimplementing a bunch of stuff that's already in minitest/spec
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: also funky: partner companies limiting names to 20 chars - try that with an indian or spanish name…
<rickhull> that, and not reusing ssh sessions
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: ha
<Trapper> yorickpeterse: Is there a guide anywhere on glob patterns?
<apeiros> or e-mail adresses to 35 chars - too bad our own mail domain is already 20 chars
<apeiros> i.e., my company email doesn't fit :)
<apeiros> Trapper: iirc File::fnmatch has a bit of docs
<rickhull> Trapper: google is your friend. found this right away http://ruby.about.com/od/beginningruby/a/dir2.htm
<rickhull> search: ruby dir glob
<yorickpeterse> Trapper:
<yorickpeterse> woops
<yorickpeterse> Yes
<yorickpeterse> run this:
<yorickpeterse> ri Dir.glob
<yorickpeterse> in your terminal
<apeiros> oh, docs got improved - yay :D
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<yorickpeterse> Yush, the 2.0 docs are pretty nice
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<yorickpeterse> (props to zzak and friends for that)
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<apeiros> indeed
<apeiros> zzak++
<Trapper> Ah not getting on with this http://ruby.about.com/od/beginningruby/a/dir2.htm
<Trapper> this syntax is different
<Trapper> # Get all .xml files
<Trapper> Dir['*.xml']
<Trapper> where as with me it's file_array = Dir.glob("lib/tasks**/.rake")
<Trapper> puts file_array
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<rickhull> i believe the array syntax [] is an alias for glob
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<rickhull> i.e. that Dir["*.xml"] is the same as Dir.glob("*.xml")
<yorickpeterse> Dir#[] and Dir.glob() are similar but different
<Trapper> ah yes
<Trapper> that's cleared everything up :)
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<Trapper> If anyone sees my google histroy they'll link I've gone bonkers
<Trapper> "ruby glob patterns"
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<apeiros> Dir::glob and Dir::[] are aliases, but [] methods can't take a block. glob takes a block.
<yorickpeterse> THOU SHALL NOT USE :: FOR METHODS!!11
<apeiros> documentation lingo
* yorickpeterse slaps apeiros's bottom and grins cheekily
<apeiros> :: means class method
<apeiros> DONT ASSAULT ME!!!!!
<yorickpeterse> I think I have to take that slap entry out
<yorickpeterse> I find it too creepy
<apeiros> na, I should not make jokes about this topic.
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<seydar> I've got two objects, a and b, of class A. I want this to work: s = Set.new; s << a; s.include? b # => true
<seydar> what method do I need to override to make that happen?
<drbrain> seydar: implement #eql? and #hash
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<seydar> drbrain: i swear i tried that to no avail, but i'll do it again because i understand that sometimes things depend on the phase of the moon
<seydar> drbrain: and of course, it worked flawlessly
<drbrain> \o/
<seydar> NO. WE'RE UPSET.
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<charliesome> apeiros: i am very late, but #[] can indeed take a block
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<apeiros> charliesome: not via the ordinary syntax, though
<charliesome> sure but it's not a lot harder
<charliesome> Dir.[] { .. }
<apeiros> ah, ok, I thought it'd at least take send
<rickhull> http://x.rubini.us/ "Ruby presently only provides threads as a concurrency mechanism." really?
<apeiros> rickhull: you could add forks, but those are non-portable.
<rickhull> fibers?
<apeiros> hm, though, fibers
<apeiros> right
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<rickhull> generally i like the content of that page, otherwise
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<yorickpeterse> not sure if I'd consider fibers in the same boat as threads
<rickhull> effectively cooperative multi rather than preemptive?
<apeiros> doesn't need to be in the same boat
<drbrain> is IO.select a concurrency mechanism?
<apeiros> it's a means for concurrency
<mistym> rickhull: "anything inspired by Perl should be removed" on that page seems extraordinarily broad
<drbrain> mistym: no more String#split!
<apeiros> note that concurrent != parallel
<rickhull> mistym: verbatim, agreed with you. i completely agree with the sentiment
<rickhull> i.e. remove those things that people are like WTF? oh a perlism
<mistym> drbrain: Hope they don't like postfixed if statements
<mistym> rickhull: Yeah, things like the magic globals I completely agree on. But the statement as written is pretty different from the apparent statement as intended
<rickhull> yeah, i took it to mean, most of the warty warts come from perl, and let's remove all of those
<rickhull> though, i do tend to disagree on disabling all globals
<rickhull> i'd be happy to say, the default impl doesn't use any globals
<rickhull> but sometimes you really do want e.g. a $LOG
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<eam> most of the good stuff about ruby comes from perl, though
<rickhull> but i'd be happy to see all globals banished from core and stdlib
<rickhull> eam: yeah, i think it's a mistake to say, it comes from perl therefore bad
<rickhull> but most people agree on the warty warts, and they do seem to mostly come from perl. completely aside from good stuff from perl
<eam> re: concurrency, IO multiplexing cannot deliver concurrency on unix
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<eam> nonblocking i/o is an ok way to fake it for small stuff, but it won't work with all i/o types
<rickhull> yeah, select and event machine are io multiplexing, then
<eam> (eg disk)
<drbrain> eam: I meant to imply IO concurrency in my question
<eam> without taking threads/forks into account you severely limit the operational scope
<drbrain> since IO.select asks the OS if it's ready to read/write more bytes
<eam> drbrain: yeah, but you can't do IO concurrency without a thread or fork on unix
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<eam> for all types of i/o
* drbrain nods
<eam> select on a socket does work though :)
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<rickhull> and not other FDs?
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<eam> rickhull: select works, however O_NONBLOCK does not
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<rickhull> ah, ok
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<eam> async-io is a "fix" except it's implemented with a thread per ...
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<eam> at least on popular unixes
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<apeiros> eam: wah? nonblocking IO internally uses threads?
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<eam> apeiros: no, nonblocking io is different from async io
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<apeiros> phew
<apeiros> you've shocked me quite a bit there
<eam> nonblocking i/o changes the semantics of read/write, but doesn't work on some kinds of fds (like, disk files)
<eam> it's basically for sockets
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<eam> the aio_* family of io calls are for async i/o and will work with disk files
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<apeiros> hm, well, I guess it doesn't make too much sense for disk files anyway. you can have threadless concurrency there by using cooperative methods
<eam> and on linux at least it's implemented by creating threads
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<eam> yeah, the trouble is when you want to say, act like a database and put data on block devices
<drbrain> eam: do other OSes have aio_*?
<eam> but if you're only writing business logic between a rdbms and the net, you're fine
<apeiros> (and select is a cooperative way of concurrency too I'd say)
<drbrain> AFAIK FreeBSD and OS X don't have hem
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<eam> drbrain: it's posix
<apeiros> I see
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<apeiros> thanks for the insight
<drbrain> eam: ok, I may have first encountered them when only linux implemented them
<eam> drbrain: osx has it, check man aio_read
<eam> I don't have freebsd handy, but iirc it implements it
<eam> I think the problem is most unixes don't implement it *well* so people generally do their own thread management for i/o
<drbrain> hrm, I must not have noticed, it says it appeared in FreeBSD 3
<eam> it probably wasn't any good, and probably still isn't
<drbrain> probably
<Trapper> is this how you test if something is -1 or + 1?
<Trapper> if integer == -1 || 1
<drbrain> Trapper: how about: if integer.abs == 1
<Trapper> what does abs do?
<rickhull> Trapper: also, that's not how the comparison works
<Trapper> rickhull: Go on
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<drbrain> Trapper: absolute value
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<rickhull> (integer == 1) || (integer == −1)
<drbrain> if the number is negative it makes it positive
<rickhull> (-1 || 1) evaluates to -1
<Trapper> drbrain: That's really clever :
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<rickhull> and note that || has high operator precedence, so it acts as though its parenthesized. 'or' has the same logical meaning but with lower operator precedence — it can be tricky to anticipate how it will evaluate, so explicit parens are helpful
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<rickhull> Trapper: are you familiar with irb, or pry?
<Trapper> rickhull: Only irb
<rickhull> pry is like irb, but much more powerful. i would suggest using pry where you might otherwise use irb. it behaves just like irb if you don't use the extra features
<rickhull> "just like" — anyone care to point out any caveats? (I'm not immediately aware of any)
<rickhull> so if you get used to using pry now, it will be very easy to transition to more powerful techniques
<Trapper> rickhull: Ah okay, thanks a lot
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<Trapper> rickhull: So how is pry better?
<Trapper> I'm sure there's a myriad of reasons, but practically speaking?
<rickhull> 1. binding.pry
<rickhull> 2. built-in tab completion
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<rickhull> 3. build-in documentation
<ruurd> builT-in
<ruurd> nit
<rickhull> thanks. i'm working on a post-edit patch for IRC :P
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<Trapper> rickhull: 2 and 3 are damn practical :)
<Trapper> I will be looking into that
<ruurd> might be better to work on a pre-post IRC patch.
<ruurd> Maybe time travel is a good thing now and again :-) :-)
<rickhull> once you understand what binding.pry does, and use it once or twice, you'll start to see the light
<ruurd> my eyes my eyes. sorry. it's the time of day...
<zenspider> irb has tab completion. my irb has doco (simple function that calls out to ri)
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<rickhull> yeah, the default irb does not, at least on my system
<rickhull> i had some thing or other to add tab-completion to irb, and then i just moved to pry
<rickhull> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDXsEzOHb2M nice intro pry video
<banisterfiend> rickhull this is a new one, that's really nice too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o90CCPjcIKE
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<rickhull> Trapper: also pry's main developer sometimes hangs out, and even talks in here
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<drbrain> "and even talks"
<drbrain> :D :D :D :D
<banisterfiend> rickhull the least we say about that guy the better, i think ;)
<rickhull> half the time he's driving and I don't want to encourage him to get distracted
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<banisterfiend> haha, i haven't driven for an entire year since i moved to europe, thankfully (opposite side of the road here..:)
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<Trapper> banisterfiend: I'll have you know driving on the left is far superior than your barbaric tradition of driving on the right! :P
<banisterfiend> Trapper in NZ we drive on the left :)
<banisterfiend> NL they drive on the right
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<banisterfiend> it's weird how completely that mindset permeates every day life, when you bump into someone when walking, you tend to move to the left in NZ, but in NL people step to the right
<Trapper> no no there are no roads in Middle Earth
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<Trapper> NZ is Newzealand, right?
<banisterfiend> yyep
<Trapper> cool :L
<Trapper> So, is it super nice?
<Trapper> As I imagine it is
<banisterfiend> Yeah, but very quiet.
<Trapper> That's no problem
<Trapper> really want to live there actually
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<banisterfiend> Yeah, now i have a remote job i can move back to NZ during the horrible dutch winters, and flip back and forth for an endless summer
<Trapper> genius
<Trapper> I live in Wales :(
<Trapper> so it's basically endless winter
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<banisterfiend> Trapper ah, are you from the village of llareggub?
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<Trapper> banisterfiend: A shot in the dark there :L
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<Trapper> Rhiwfawr :)
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<Trapper> Do you have family in Llareggub?
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<Trapper> hold on a second
<banisterfiend> hehe
<banisterfiend> googling? :P
<banisterfiend> Read it backwards
<banisterfiend> >> "llareggub".reverse
<eval-in> banisterfiend => "buggerall" (https://eval.in/54645)
<Trapper> haha
<Trapper> I don't know what I'm more embarrassed about; my igorance of literature or local geography :|
<banisterfiend> Trapper not familiar with dylan thomas? :)
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<Trapper> Yes, I am! At least, I thought I was.
<Trapper> I did think the double 'gg' looked a bit odd to be fair :P
<Trapper> Honestly, I've even been to his house :L
<banisterfiend> Trapper weird that a guy called 'richard burton' pings out just as we were talking about Dylan T.
<Trapper> xD
<Trapper> The welsh are coming!
<Trapper> banisterfiend: Just clicked that link...that is a mad connection
<Trapper> Is there one of Kevin Bacon reading Under Milk Wood as well?
<Trapper> :P
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<banisterfiend> hope not
<Trapper> So do I, I was refering to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon
<Trapper> just in case you thought I had some weird love of Kevin Bacon
<Trapper> though to be fair, his ancestors did discover Bacon :/
<banisterfiend> yeah, i figured :)
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<Trapper> banisterfiend: Less intellectual maybe, but I do like HP Lovecraft's poems as well
<banisterfiend> never read any, link?
<oddmunds> the racy ones?
<Trapper> Hold on..there's one poem he wrote that's a little bit Dylan Thomas esque..
<Trapper> oddmunds: Lord Byron's who you want there
<oddmunds> Trapper: HP wrote a very n-wordy poem
<Trapper> oddmunds: Oh dear, I didn't know that..
<Trapper> He was a bit odd, to be fair
<oddmunds> hehe
<Trapper> banisterfiend: Here it is! http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fungi_from_Yuggoth
<Trapper> Very similar atmosphere to Dylan Thomas, I feel, personally.
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<banisterfiend> Trapper the imagery is very strong but it's not as impressionistic as thomas
<banisterfiend> but very good in its own right imo
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<banisterfiend> thx for the link
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<banisterfiend> Trapper thomas is more abstract "in the spin of the sun, in the spuming cyclone of his wing.." etc
<Trapper> banisterfiend: Like I say, it really isn't as intellectual...HP Lovecraft is just science-fiction, guilty please x)
<Trapper> I'll admit I had to google this to remember
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<Trapper> but Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night is definitely one of Dylan Thomas' best
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<Trapper> I'm not much good at analysing, but it's just written straight from the soul
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<banisterfiend> fern hill is my fave
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<Trapper> I'll give that a read..ah I tell you what you just remembed me of
<Trapper> John Betjeman I think?
<banisterfiend> no, dylan thomas :)
<Trapper> I only heard of it through The Office (UK version) but Come Friendly Bombs is really good
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<Trapper> No, sorry it's called 'Slough' http://www-cdr.stanford.edu/intuition/Slough.html
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<banisterfiend> cool
<Trapper> ah incredible. That was pretty concrete for Dylan Thomas actually...time for the big guns
<Trapper> have you read
<Trapper> John Milton's
<Trapper> Paradise Lost
<banisterfiend> bits and pieces, mostly i read a lot of non-english surrealistic/symbolist stuff, like rimbaud and garcia lorca
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<Trapper> Can't really comment, I only know English and about 15% of Welsh
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<Trapper> Paradise Lost is really good though...I can't really, it's just a real story. There's a bit where Satan is looking out over the space outside the Universes, and it's all this swirling blackness that God uses to create planets. It's really cool, like science fiction.
<imperator> i've listened to enya a few times, does that count?
<Trapper> *I can't really describe it
<Trapper> imperator: Hahaha
<Trapper> imperator: Does she even use words?
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<drbrain> Trapper: sometimes
* imperator listens to ebudae
<imperator> he-ah-huawah-hudi....am i doing this right?
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<Trapper> drbrain: Good to know :P
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<Trapper> Don't know if you guys watch this
<Trapper> 5:21 "You're about as punk as Enya!!"
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<banisterfiend> drbrain did u see this ? http://stoptechfeminism.tumblr.com/
<drbrain> banisterfiend: Avdi mentioned it, he thinks its a honeypot
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<drbrain> seems ludicrous
<r0bgleeson> anytime i asked a question of a feminisit on twitter, it felt just like this "Feminism doesn’t want a discussion, it wants an enemy."
<ykk`> hey everyone
<ykk`> and r0b has that not happened with non-feminists?
<drbrain> I'm a feminist
<ykk`> good to know =D
<r0bgleeson> i'm a humanist
<r0bgleeson> i dont think gener should ever be an issue
<Tearan> YOUR CAN TAKE AWAY RUBY WHEN YOU PRY IT FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!
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<Trapper> Ah the feminists are only dangerous once a month
<r0bgleeson> making it an issue is the problem, for me
<drbrain> Trapper: not cool
<r0bgleeson> ykk`: ill show you the context so you can see what i mean
<ykk`> there's some data about a crowdsourcing project on indiegogo and no api.
<drbrain> r0bgleeson: I'm a feminist because of humanity
<ykk`> ahh ok
<ykk`> i did come in the middle of convo
<apeiros> r0bgleeson: neither should color or income ever be an issue
<Tearan> Like seriously! Fuck Java!
<Trapper> drbrain: I'm only skimming I have no idea what people are saying x)
<apeiros> r0bgleeson: but arguing it wasn't is either utterly ignorant or plain evil.
<Tearan> And Pythin!
<ykk`> I was thinking of writing a web scraper to scrape the data needed from the indiegogo site
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<ykk`> then somehow inject it into the html?
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<r0bgleeson> ykk`: https://twitter.com/r_0b3rt/status/380189081533042688 https://twitter.com/r_0b3rt/status/380189281475506177 - i dont know what i said wrong there, but the reply was pretty weak & very defensive, before i had even spoke a word
<ykk`> how could someone do that?
<ykk`> inject code into html
<rickhull> as far as feminism promotes equality, i'm a feminist. i just disagree with most of the stuff coming out of the radfem hivemind, which is unsurprisingly the loudest contingent
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<apeiros> rickhull: +1
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<apeiros> not everything which claims to be X is indeed X
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<r0bgleeson> yeah im for equality too
<r0bgleeson> equal pay, for sure, etc, but it can get to an extreme. which i think it is at now.
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<ykk`> lol
<ykk`> Robert
<ykk`> she's just being catty
<apeiros> extreme equality?
<banisterfiend> r0bgleeson +1 for keeping the k00 alive in your tweet
<banisterfiend> :D
<r0bgleeson> apeiros: eh well, no, making devils out of people who really have no hate in their bones at all for women
<r0bgleeson> turning misunderstandings into the next drama
<ykk`> she's cute too. she stated an observation and totally pulled a Bad Girls on you
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<rickhull> there is equality of opportunity and equality of outcomes. the latter might be described as extreme equality. for example, mandating that sports starts get paid minimum wage
<banisterfiend> r0bgleeson hash wow she really bit your head off
<ykk`> lol banisterfiend
<apeiros> r0bgleeson: you see, those kinds of things happen if you get vitriol from about all sides
<ykk`> she totally did
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* imperator decides to go look at open rubygems issues
<Trapper> Women live longer than men
<Trapper> so, it all evens out
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<Trapper> and they get loads of vouchers in their catalogues
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<imperator> let's get back to ruby, shall we? i don't think this conversation can end well
<drbrain> Trapper: no really, not cool
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<Trapper> drbrain: I'm not being serious!
<Trapper> imperator's got the best suggestion
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<drbrain> Trapper: I don't care, it doesn't belong in this channel
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<Trapper> drbain: Aright
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<apeiros> drbrain: +1
<rickhull> i'm having some trouble with net/ssh, specifying a user and keys via Net::SSH.start
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<rickhull> apparently it only wants to know about private keys, and then it goes and looks for what it thinks should be the matching public key
<rickhull> and it fails when the public key is not what it expects
<rickhull> from the docs, it seems clear that keys should be a list of private keys
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<rickhull> does it *need* to find the corresponding public key? and if so, how can i tell it where to find it?
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<joevandyk> running latest ruby and rubygems on ubuntu 12.04 in a virtual machine
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<drbrain> joevandyk: you may have had SEGV before hitting SystemCallError
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<joevandyk> drbrain: i can't reproduce it reliably unfortunately :(
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<drbrain> joevandyk: I'm guessing because your stack is so large, and bundler's resolver is recursive
<imperator> 166: version.to_s =~ ANCHORED_VERSION_PATTERN
<joevandyk> drbrain: never had a problem on 1.9.3, fwiw
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<drbrain> joevandyk: you can report it
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<joevandyk> drbrain: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/8797 same problem, i think, filed in august
<joevandyk> looks like someone else had the problem
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