apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Nick registration required to talk || Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<imperator> anyone here on solaris?
<chris2> haunted by their dead wife?
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<imperator> yes, exactly, mr lem
<chris2> :)
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<chris2> i can boot my omnios tomorrow, but its in the office
<imperator> man, ffi gets really upset when i try to clone certain things
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<imperator> dang, thought i found the issue - NOPE
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<imperator> and if i print it out twice, sometimes the corruption disappears
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* imperator calls upon the powers of grayskull to figure out this issue
<micalexander> any one give me a quick overview of how minitest works? Gonna try to dive into it for the first time.
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<xybre> micalexander: it tests things using ruby
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<pipework> micalexander: It's a ruby library whose purpose is to assist in writing tests for ruby.
<pipework> Or other things, if you want.
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<micalexander> pipework: cool I understand that however Im find very little docs on the web on how to use it. I found one tutorial and it seems that u make a separate folder for the test and in that folder it looked as if the guy duplicated the code and ran the test on the dup and not his actual code. Is this the case?
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<xybre> micalexander: No
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<micalexander> xybre: can u elaborate quickly on the setup and usage?
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<xybre> micalexander: `mkdir -p test/models; echo -e "require 'minitest/autorun'\ndescribe User do\n it 'exists' do\n refute_nil User\n end\nend" > test/models/user_spec.rb; ruby test/models/user_spec.rb`
<micalexander> xybre: so if I have an app and have a user class where would the test folder sit and do I just require the user class into the test?
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<xybre> micalexander: You'd just require it in the test.
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<micalexander> xybre: ok thanks
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<pipework> micalexander: I typically require the file that contains the objects I'm testing in the test, yeah.
<pipework> The only times I don't is when I'm using rails. Because holy balls.
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<micalexander> pipework: awesome, so do I have to require every file or is there a way I can require the whole app, or is that over kill. the app isnt too big like rails
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<xybre> Best practice is to require only whats needed. So require your user, and then have your user require anything else that it directly relies on
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<micalexander> xybre: oh ok, so its pretty manual?
<pipework> micalexander: It depends. You surely can provide a whole environment.
<pipework> That's what rails config/environment.rb does.
<xybre> micalexander: Making the process manual makes it easier to track dependencies, if you find your User object (for instance) has a huge set of "requires" at the top then it probably means its doign way too much.
<pipework> You can do the same in your projects if you want, but requiring takes a while and I typically prefer to require just what's necessary.
<pipework> Some test suites take 30s+ to load because of all the requires and setup.
<pipework> Some people pre-load with things like zeus, spork, and the like. I'd just suggest not complicating your setup and doing things well. :)
<micalexander> xybre: pipework: thanks for the answers, had one more question, off the test seubject
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<micalexander> what would be your suggestion for running bash commands in ruby? In this app I'm writing Im converting pretty large shell script into ruby and some of the commands are simple "rm", "git init", "curl" and "mysql" commands. would you suggest finding a ruby suggestion for all of them or mix and match?
<micalexander> xybre: I wand to do it the ruby way as much as possible
<micalexander> pipework: I wand to do it the ruby way as much as possible
<pipework> micalexander: There's many libraries, but anything I'd write myself would be based off popen3.
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<pipework> Just shelling out might not be the right way to go either. Consider looking into libraries that provide the functionality you need that are in ruby, or at least libraries that correctly interface with those other twiddly bits.
<pipework> Like the mysql gems over shelling out, if you can.
<micalexander> pipework: what could you see as the pros n cons to either way?
<micalexander> pipework: so I image popen3 lets you just shell stuff out then?
<jrobeson> using ruby libraries for the equivlanet of rm for example would mean that you don't have to worry about whether it works on linux, windows, or dealing with variants of command arguments between gnu and bsd versions of commands on unix
<pipework> micalexander: Shelling out is a blocking process, so you'd need to start threading to not tie up your program until those commands return./
<pipework> micalexander: Whereas, most libraries that provide the same functionality handle it for you.
<jrobeson> if you wanna write a shell script.. write a shell script..
<jrobeson> otherwise use ruby variants where possible
<jrobeson> although i'm sure there are exceptions..
<xybre> micalexander: File.delete, open-uri, ruby-git, and the mysql gem (in order of difficulty)
<jrobeson> hmm.. it just reminded me to look up grit.. grit hasn't bee ntouched in awhile it seems
<pipework> I used ruby all the time for shell scripting and system scripting.'
<jrobeson> perhaps ruby-git is better now
<micalexander> thanks all, was just looking at ruby git
<pipework> mysql2 is probably still better than mysql.
<micalexander> so in other words the cons are that shelling out is a bit archaic
<jrobeson> i wouldn't say that..
<micalexander> is mysql2 a lib
<xybre> micalexander: well, shelling out spaws no less than 2 processes, so its a heavy operation
<xybre> spawns^
<micalexander> jrobeson: what would you say
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<micalexander> ok
<jrobeson> i'd say that using ruby equivalents means you dont' often have to worry about whether it's gonna work wherever you install it
<jrobeson> windows, linux, or mac ..
<micalexander> jrobeson
<jrobeson> especially where the arguments differ between versions.. even between bsd (mac) and gnu
<micalexander> goood point
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<xybre> Yeah, as long as you use RVM (or equivilent) and Bundler, your life will be much easier.
<jrobeson> i'd always try to do the ruby way first, then try the alternatives
<micalexander> pipework: is mysql2 a library?
<xybre> (and more portable)
<pipework> micalexander: It's a gem and a library./
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<micalexander> cool thanks for the help really appreciate it guys
<micalexander> I will take you guys recommendations
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<micalexander> pipework: what would you recommend for a curl replacement for downloading tarballs files etc? have you heard of curb or Curl:Multi, or is open good enough
<pipework> micalexander: I'd use Net:HTTP
<micalexander> Ill check it out. Have you heard of Typhoeus
<pipework> Yeah.
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<micalexander> anything good?
<pipework> I usually don't pull in libraries willy-nilly though. It has to provide a lot of value before I'll use it.
<micalexander> so net http is a native alternative then
<pipework> Net::HTTP is in stdlib, though a bit archaic and wieldy at times, I'd venture that you'll easily handle what you want to do by using it.
<micalexander> ok
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<Senjai> would anyone recommend safari books online?
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<Barrin6> puts "Hello everybody!"
<Barrin6> whoa
<Barrin6> \a is pretty cool
<Barrin6> ruby can make a sound!
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<Barrin6> i totally just fucked up my github
<Barrin6> I can't merge this
<Barrin6> for some reason
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<yorickpeterse> morning
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<maloik> guud morning
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<ljarvis> morning
<rue|w> Shudduuup
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<TCMSLP> I see << is used to add (push) an item to an array. However, the documentation I've found indicates << adds a method to an instance of a class. Does the << operator have two functions or am I missing something basic regarding the simularity of the two functions...
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<ljarvis> TCMSLP: where did you read that it adds a method to the instance of a class?
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<TCMSLP> ljarvis: http://tinyurl.com/okcnouj
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<TCMSLP> ljarvis: I'm new to Ruby (and OOP in general) so perhaps confusing some terms
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<apeiros> TCMSLP: the syntax looks similar
<apeiros> but it's not the same
<apeiros> `class << self` is the syntax to open the singleton_class of the object referenced by self
<apeiros> you can read `class <<` as a single token
<ljarvis> ^
<apeiros> but `some_obj << other_obj` is a method call. it calls the method named '<<' on 'some_obj' with the argument 'other_obj'
<apeiros> and if some_obj is an Array, that method indeed does a push
<apeiros> if it's an integer, it'll do a left-shift.
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<TCMSLP> OK - so the nature of << depends on the object being a class or an instance
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<TCMSLP> Thanks.
<ljarvis> not quite but i think you get it enough
<ljarvis> maloik: belgium mosquitos do not like me (I have 30+ bites :/)
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<maloik> ljarvis: I never really get bothered by bugs at all
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<maloik> most annoying thing is their sound
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<maloik> when we go camping in summer people always complain about horseflies (google translate told me that's what they're called?), I remember being stung by one and actually seeing it happen and not really feeling much at all
<maloik> thick skin I suppose :D
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<darix> ljarvis: it actually means they like you a lot. ;)
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<ljarvis> darix: well dont i feel special
<ljarvis> maloik: yeah horse flies hate me too
<ljarvis> it doesn't really hurt much when it happens, but the aftermath is horrible, but i think my skin is super sensitive (vicky got bitten too, but hers are quite small)
<maloik> anyone recognize these kind of errors? http://cl.ly/image/3G003A280l11
<maloik> is that gcc that's failing ?
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: mosquitos/horse flies usually go after those with a nice layer of fat on their body :>
<ljarvis> :/
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<maloik> I think that's bullshit
<yorickpeterse> that's gcc being pedantic
<maloik> well I know it is, unless I'm the exception to the rule
<yorickpeterse> and quite possibly some extension being dumb
<maloik> yea I thought so.... installing it via homebrew now, but it's taking forever
<yorickpeterse> what extension is it?
<maloik> I can't tell but this happens when installing ferret
<maloik> dumb old project, and I just reinstalled my machine so yea...
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<dernise> Hello !
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<[spoiler]> Hi!
<vivekyadav> Hello
<vivekyadav> Is there any Ruby equivalent of python's __del__ instance method ?
<DefV> what does that do?
<[spoiler]> What's __del__?
<vivekyadav> it is called when the object is going to be deleted
<vivekyadav> is it 'finalize' ?
<[spoiler]> No. It's a bit more complicated than that, in ruby
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<dernise> You mean a destructor?
<vivekyadav> yes
<vivekyadav> like a destructor
<[spoiler]> Here's a quick example: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/101f7e629c09e596e95f (Never had to use it myself, but I guess this is how it should look)
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<vivekyadav> Thank you, looking into it
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<[spoiler]> vivekyadav: There's no method that gets called once an object "dies," but you can specify an object-specific block that gets invoked when an object dies. :-)
<vivekyadav> that works
<[spoiler]> "dies," I must have such morbid concepts of objects in my head...
<dernise> I like killing objects.
<[spoiler]> dernise: LOL
* xybre takes out the Object::Shotgun and puts OldYeller out of its misery.
<vivekyadav> [spoiler]: Heres a safer way to do the same : http://www.mikeperham.com/2010/02/24/the-trouble-with-ruby-finalizers/
<vivekyadav> Thanks for the help
* workmad3 starts the Society for the Prevention of Unnecessary Cruelty to Objects
* dernise think we should eradicate the gun violance against objects.
<workmad3> an object is for life! not just for runtime!
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<xybre> You can't take away our right to finalize our own Objects!
<dernise> Keep the objects in the memory. Never forget them.
<dernise> Okey, enough laughs, let's get back to work :)
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<workmad3> dernise: what is this 'work' you speak of? :/
<[spoiler]> Blimey, what did I come back to?!
<[spoiler]> workmad3: SPUCO (Society for the Prevention of Unnecessary Cruelty to Objects)! I like this!
<dernise> workmad3: I'm coding.. destructors.
<dernise> I am evil.
<darix> vivekyadav: why do you need it?
<xybre> Yeah seriously though, why destructors?
<[spoiler]> dernise: Aren't you a cheerful chap. :P
<dernise> [spoiler]: Ahah :p
<workmad3> xybre: because C++ has them? :)
<xybre> Couldn't this be fixed by using a lambda instead of a proc? http://www.mikeperham.com/2010/02/24/the-trouble-with-ruby-finalizers/ Or do they both keep references to self..
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<dernise> I must go, have a nice day ?!
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<[spoiler]> xybre: I think they both do... I guess someone could test it
<workmad3> xybre: it's an aspect of the closure, not of how you created the closure :)
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<workmad3> xybre: it could be fixed by the GC detecting closed loops though
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<workmad3> hmm... wait, no
<workmad3> the issue is that ObjectSpace has a handle for the proc, and the proc has a binding which contains the object...
<xybre> Yeah.. thats why I was thinking that lambdas don't keep a binding to the local self.
<workmad3> except they do
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<workmad3> they're still closures after all :)
<vivekyadav> darix: to clean up stuff when the object is cleaned
<xybre> Well, bummer. I was sure that one of them wasn't a true closure.
<workmad3> xybre: lambdas have different 'return' mechanics
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<xybre> And different argument mechanics, at least in 1.9.
<workmad3> yeah
<workmad3> they error if you call with an incorrect number of args
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<yorickpeterse> "The suggested pronunciation of JWT is the same as the English word "jot"."
<yorickpeterse> Since when does JWT sound like jot?
<yorickpeterse> other than that JWT looks...interesting
<[spoiler]> Maybe because there's an invisible vowel (usually an A), so the word could look like "J(a)wt", and "jaw" is pronounced /jô/, so you get jôt.
<[spoiler]> Just speculating. Invisible vowels are common in many languages
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<yorickpeterse> it reminds me of the Java Web Toolkit
<yorickpeterse> (purely by name, never used JWT)
<[spoiler]> What's JWT anyway?
<[spoiler]> I never used either
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<yorickpeterse> yeah that
<yorickpeterse> some top sekret token system
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<[spoiler]> Bleh! I can't think of why *I* would need to use it, but it sure seems cool
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<yorickpeterse> Zendesk uses it
<yorickpeterse> I have exactly 1 day to implement this before their old sign-in system goes bust
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<[spoiler]> Ooooh. I hate deadlines, especially short ones. Good luck!
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<yorickpeterse> luckily the implementation is prett yeasy
<yorickpeterse> * easy
<maloik> fml, just went through all our conference stuff and now I'm nearly 100% certain my whiskey and glasses were stolen
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<zzak> maloik: thats ok i accidentally kept the airbnb house key :o
<zzak> im at LHR now
<maloik> lol :s
<maloik> protip: mailing doesn't always work... like in a regular envelope
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<maloik> in fact I'm fairly sure that if they spot a key they get rid of the package
<zzak> yeah, i have to figure that out when i get home probably not a big deal, im willing to bet they have extras
<zzak> lol
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<spun_hacker> good morning|afternoon|evening|night. I have a class with some methods (which might vary) that return various values of interest. I want to pick which method to call on an object of that class based on a string. of course I could use case, or eval, but is there a more elegant way? (n00b)
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<workmad3> >> def foo; puts "hi"; end; send("foo")
<eval-in> workmad3 => hi ... (https://eval.in/53045)
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<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse yo, you here? or you maloik ?
<yorickpeterse> sup
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse maloik i'm ringing my dutch doctor but they have this weird recorded intro instructing me what to do next, would u be about to translate it into english for me so i know what to do? https://www.evernote.com/shard/s130/sh/af3513ab-858c-45cb-9c65-3bcd4381e451/6d840ef98d19858af1dd4138b8aa1078
<yorickpeterse> sec
<banisterfiend> it's only about 15 sec
<banisterfiend> thx
<yorickpeterse> banisterfiend: they're telling you that between 12:00 and 14:00 they're lazy shits and not available
<yorickpeterse> because they'll be "in meetings"
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse damn, is that all it says? it doesn't say any other number i can press to leave a msg or anything?
<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: I bet it's private meetings, if y'know what I mean...
<yorickpeterse> banisterfiend: No, it says to call them back after 14:00
<banisterfiend> well i guess that's in 8 mins
<banisterfiend> :)
<banisterfiend> thanks!
<yorickpeterse> np
<banisterfiend> I might need you to translate again once they're available as i think there was another msg that they have telling u to press '1' for x and '2' for Y etc
<yorickpeterse> oh, just mash the first one
<yorickpeterse> wait, I'll check what it said
<yorickpeterse> 1 is for emergencies
<yorickpeterse> 2 is for the rest
<yorickpeterse> so yeah, mash 1 :P
<[spoiler]> Yeah, 1.
<banisterfiend> it's not really an emergency, just wanting to change my sleeping pill prescription :)
<[spoiler]> 2 puts you on hold indefinitely or until you actually need to press 1
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<[spoiler]> 1 is the wiser option
<[spoiler]> You'll get to 1 eventually. ~
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<spun_hacker> workmad3: thanks!~ that is what i was looking for.
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<yorickpeterse> Coding with gloves on, yay
<yorickpeterse> because my hands are cold and the climate control is being a bitch
<yorickpeterse> and I didn't bring my jumpger
<yorickpeterse> * jumper
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<[spoiler]> I have problems hitting keys without gloves on. If I wore gloves... Catastrophic consequences.
<[spoiler]> I once typod my PC to a shut-down
<spun_hacker> "How do you type with boxing gloves on?"
<yorickpeterse> doesn't matter, I just mash keys and magic happens
<[spoiler]> Someone once described my typing as: "I bet Nino just slams his forehead into the keyboard and stuff comes out"
<yorickpeterse> a lot of code would make a lot more sense if that was wat would happen
<yorickpeterse> "Why the fuck does this happe...oh, he types with his ass"
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<[spoiler]> LOL
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<spun_hacker> WRT my question earlier, about calling a method specified by a string on an object .. x = obj.method 'what_i_want' is also useful.. then i can do x.call later.
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<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse thx :D
<yorickpeterse> For emergencies 1, for prescriptions something 2, to actually get a human, press 3
<yorickpeterse> if you don't choose anything you'll automatically be forwarded to a human
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<[spoiler]> spun_hacker it's more common use a :symbol with object.method, but if you're generating it on-the-fly, then a string might be better. However, symbols are a better because they are immutable
<banisterfiend> yorickpeterse what's 2 exactly? to renew prescription?
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<yorickpeterse> yeah
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<spun_hacker> the method names come from a cmd line arg. use case: script reads log input from stdin, passes each line to a class which extracts info which is exposed as various attributes, then script uses a = obj.method 'desired_attr' to get the attribute. and then something like a.method 'avg', if it's numeric.
<spun_hacker> but 'desired_attr' and 'avg' come from the command line.
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<[spoiler]> spun_hacker: then it's cheaper to use strings anyway :-)
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<maloik> what's that saying again, to put the hat on the wall or something like that ?
<maloik> as in to take a break, to finish something, ...
<yorickpeterse> oi, anybody here speak Mandarin?
<cout> I think it's "burn the midnight oil"
<yorickpeterse> or well read it in this case
<maloik> cout: no it has something to do with clothing (maybe a coat, or a hat) and possibly a hanger
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<micalexander> in the terminal I can do mkdir -p parent_folder/{sub_dir/{one,two,three}
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<micalexander> to make a structure that looks like this parent/sub_dir/one, parent/sub_dir/two, parent/sub_dir/three
<[spoiler]> Was that a question?
<micalexander> I know the equivalent of mkdir -p in ruby is mkdir_p, but is there a way I can replicate this behavior?
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<micalexander> [spoiler]: no but that was :)
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<[spoiler]> Haha. No idea! I never tried it.
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<yorickpeterse> Ruby has FileUtils.mkdir_p
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<[spoiler]> Ye knows that, but he's asking if he can somehow replicate the behaviour of the bash command he demonstrated
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<micalexander> [spoiler]: yeah some place I was looking before I asked but no luck finding anything similar there, figured a guru in here might have a trick up their sleeve
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<micalexander> same*
<[spoiler]> does it have to be that specific string format?
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<[spoiler]> you could parse the string and generate smaller strings and simply call mkdir_p multiple times
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<micalexander> [spoiler]: I was trying to get away from calling mkdir_p multiple times
<TCMSLP> Doing it in a block may mean some voodoo happens under the hood
<TCMSLP> But I'm a n00b so ignore me :)
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<[spoiler]> Well, I guess
<[spoiler]> if you call it with this hash passed in the options parameter: { noop: true, verbose: true }
<[spoiler]> you can play with it without compromising the integrity
<[spoiler]> of the structure
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<[spoiler]> micalexander ping
<[spoiler]> Also, list can apparently
<[spoiler]> be any number of arguments
<micalexander> [spoiler]: ok I'll have to try that
<imperator> chris2, ping
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<[spoiler]> micalexander: FileUtils::mkdir_p(["a", "b"], {:noop => true, :verbose => true}) #=> mkdir -p a b
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<imperator> what's a good no-frills gui debugger for ruby?
<micalexander> [spoiler]: Imma have to look at that, off to work now but when I get there imma try to make that happen thaxn.
<imperator> something simple, like a tk interface or something
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<yorickpeterse> imperator: pry
<yorickpeterse> that's the closest I know of that doesn't make me want to kill myself
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<[spoiler]> micalexander: https://eval.in/private/c288dff1d9e211 here's an example
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<imperator> yorickpeterse, how is that better than just using ruby's debugger?
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<yorickpeterse> imperator: ask yourself, do you want an "ok-ish" debugger or do you want to ride a car that makes people go "WOW, that person knows how to debug code like a boss"?
<yorickpeterse> In all seriousness though, Pry is pretty damn awesome
<yorickpeterse> In every aspect, except for the bootup time
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<[spoiler]> yorickpeterse: What if he wants a jetplane?
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<yorickpeterse> [spoiler]: then they'd install pry-theme and pry-debugger
<[spoiler]> Haha :P
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<imperator> i just want to watch a variable while i step through the code, dude
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<[spoiler]> imperator: Yeah, but if you want to watch it in all it's glory. Get pry ;-)
<yorickpeterse> There are no GUIs that I know of, so it's something like the built-in debugger or something more feature-full
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<yorickpeterse> The state of Ruby GUI apps is, well, lacking
<havenwood> For Ruby 2.0 pry-byebug is nice for stepping: https://github.com/deivid-rodriguez/pry-byebug#readme
<[spoiler]> I tried messing with Ruby & GUI without relying on any bindings, and after a few hours I wanted to set fire to the PC
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<yorickpeterse> The Ruby GTK bindings are the closest thing to "ok-ish", but the docs are pretty old and the GTK docs themselves are hilariously bad
<yorickpeterse> qt bindings for Ruby in general just don't work to begin with
<imperator> hm, there's arcadia, dunno how up to date it is
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<chris2> imperator: pong
<imperator> chris2, just wondering if you had a minute to look a solaris lib/bug
<chris2> yes, what shall i do?
<imperator> https://github.com/djberg96/solaris-kstat, clone, switch to ffi branch
<imperator> there's a little program baked into kstat.rb, so you should be able to just run it
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<imperator> basically, the mhash variable is getting corrupted, i just don't understand how
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<chris2> which ruby?
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<imperator> 1.9.3-p362
<imperator> built with gcc
<chris2> gawd, this partition doesnt have enough space to install gcc :P
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<imperator> ouch
<imperator> welp, nm then
<imperator> just tried upgrading ffi....now it chokes on kstat_chain_update, awesome
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<chris2> heh
<chris2> cant help, sorry
<imperator> bummer
<imperator> though, i think if your solaris partition doesn't have enough space for gcc....you might want to give it more space ;)
<imperator> do you have the sun studio compiler?
<chris2> yes
<chris2> i dont have any compiler
<imperator> i couldn't get ffi to build with it last time i tried, but it's been a while
<chris2> and i could grow the partition easily if i didnt fuck it up the last few times :P
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<imperator> now it's not working with the old version of ffi either, great
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<imperator> i effed up something
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<Silex> hello, I accidently remove my global rvm gemset... can someone tell me what gems are inside it by default?
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<[spoiler]> Silex: Does it matter? Just install the ones you're going to use anyway? You can start by installing bundler :D
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* imperator fixed the previous thing he just effed up
<imperator> got a little too excited with an ensure clause
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<[spoiler]> imperator: gj! :P
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<[spoiler]> I need some Ruby knights!
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<apeiros> I need a trillion billion dollars!
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* chris2 taxes apeiros
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<apeiros> I gladly pay the taxes when I got the trillion billion dollars :)
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<chris2> heh
<chris2> are you voting for the grundeinkommen?
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<apeiros> I find it a nice idea, and I think it'd be awesome. but I doubt it's practicable.
<apeiros> but I haven't checked at how they intend to regulate and finance it.
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<[spoiler]> I'm defending Ruby's honour, but the opposite side keeps making good points, too :/
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<imperator> we have an "opposite" side?
<apeiros> [spoiler]: no idea what you're talking about…
<[spoiler]> no, not here haha
<[spoiler]> on another server, someone groaned about ruby
<apeiros> chris2: wow, their website is horrible.
<chris2> heh
<imperator> [spoiler], eh, haters gonna hate
<apeiros> ponys gonna pony!
<[spoiler]> I quote: "and yet in "ruby", using explicit return statements is almost as offensive to most "ruby purists" as clubbing seals"
<apeiros> true
<[spoiler]> It is?! I don't give a rats ass about return statements
<[spoiler]> personally
<apeiros> you're not a ruby purist
<apeiros> I hope you know the way to /leave, or should I show you the way out?
<apeiros> ;-)
<[spoiler]> LOL
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<imperator> seal clubbing is so underrated
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<apeiros> chris2: why - if you were swiss, what'd you vote?
<chris2> for it
<chris2> switzerland is actually a scale for a good experiment :P
<apeiros> you think it's feasible?
<chris2> yes
<apeiros> yeah, just that we pay the price if it fails :-)
<chris2> hehe
<apeiros> literally, even
<apeiros> not just figuratively :D
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<apeiros> I think `Der grösste Teil der verbleibenden 130 Milliarden sind in heutigen Erwerbseinkommen enthalten.` is a fallacy. The moment you go to Grundeinkommen, this volume will fall. it might even stabilize later at a higher point again, but it'll almost certainly fall initially.
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<apeiros> and I find it rather suspicious that in `http://bedingungslos.ch/zum-thema/`, point 2 & 3, they no longer have good facts/figures.
<chris2> imo the problem is inflation
<apeiros> immigration too. free money? yay, lets go there! (even if it is regulated, that'll be the gist of what people hear)
<chris2> yeah, immigration to switzerland is trivial :P
<chris2> not
<[spoiler]> Is this a bug? https://eval.in/private/8728caecf81921
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<apeiros> [spoiler]: no. precedence.
<apeiros> lvar beats method. even if assignment doesn't happen.
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<[spoiler]> Yeah, but that's not what's happening here. If you change the explicit foo to implicit foo (or vice versa) the code suddenly works
<apeiros> explicit foo/implicit foo?
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<[spoiler]> so changing "this.foo" to "foo" or changing "foo" to "this.foo" makes it work
<apeiros> you mean self.foo?
<apeiros> that supports what I say
<[spoiler]> fuck me, yes I meant self
<[spoiler]> haha
<[spoiler]> (writing some js now)
<apeiros> foo in line 8 is an lvar
<apeiros> not a method
<apeiros> and the lvar is nil
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<apeiros> and I said: "lvar beats method"
<apeiros> if you prepended a line `p(defined? foo)` it'd say "local-variable"
<[spoiler]> But, shouldn't it be the method foo=()?
<[spoiler]> because the're an accessor
<[spoiler]> there's*
<apeiros> you mean on line 5?
<apeiros> no. foo= methods always require explicit receiver.
<apeiros> it can't work without.
<apeiros> otherwise ruby would have no way of distinguishing assignment to an lvar from a method call.
<apeiros> an alternative of course would be to use a sigil to identify local variables (like php's $)
<apeiros> but that's not what matz chose to do.
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<[spoiler]> You're right... I have no idea what confused me, actually
<waxjar> i think he was just out of symbols :P
<apeiros> waxjar: % :)
<apeiros> or \
<waxjar> hehe
<[spoiler]> Or ¬
<apeiros> I freed a lot of symbols by requiring whitespace around symbols as methods
<apeiros> (in my toy language)
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<[spoiler]> ¬variable = 10
<apeiros> i.e., 5+2i -> complex literal, 5 + 2i -> integer literal, + method, imaginary literal
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<apeiros> [spoiler]: non-ascii chars --
<chris2> moar unicode!
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<[spoiler]> Haha
<[spoiler]> ¦then
<[spoiler]> i think ¦ is ascii
<chris2> boldface letter
<chris2> algol style
<apeiros> turd-lang - code files are identified by a
<waxjar> hehe, i was about to say
<[spoiler]> you mean túrd-lang
<waxjar> should have been the "pile of poo" emote
<apeiros> I mean türd-lâng
<apeiros> or -lång?
<[spoiler]> wotfok
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<[spoiler]> there's an a with a circle?
<imperator> what's this? switzerland giving out free money?
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<apeiros> imperator: there's a volksinitiative wanting ~2500.- CHF/month for everybody as base income, without strings attached
<eam> anyone here familiar with mri internals WRT signal handling?
<eam> I'm trying to track down where in ruby a broken signal handler gets set
<imperator> brb, moving to switzerland
<apeiros> imperator: it hasn't been accepted yet :)
<apeiros> imperator: also note that you don't get far with that amount
<imperator> brb, crushing opposition to this plan
<apeiros> :D
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<imperator> what if you're a swiss citizen living in, say, thailand?
<apeiros> no idea. currently reading up on the specifics.
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<apeiros> also: from when on do you start to qualify? when you got the swiss passport?
<[spoiler]> Oh, yeah, that was on the news here (in Croatia)
<chris2> i guess it only applies to citizens
<[spoiler]> Don't kids get like a weird tuition, too?
<chris2> everything else would be stupid
<apeiros> would put pressure on what's required to become a citizen
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<apeiros> and personally I'd like those requirements low
<imperator> better brush up on my german/french/italian
<chris2> isnt it living 7 years there?
<apeiros> it's a bit more
<apeiros> and it depends on some factors
<chris2> how is that low? :D
<apeiros> I said *lower*
<chris2> ok
<chris2> you didnt, but ok
<apeiros> I don't find it low. there are other aspects I'd like raised, though
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<apeiros> ah, well
<apeiros> I said "I'd like them low", I didn't say they currently were
<chris2> i dont think its low either
<imperator> is there a language test?
<apeiros> imperator: not sure actually
<chris2> omg id fail that :D
<apeiros> chris2: it depends on some factors too btw. - e.g. my wife could apply now, after 5y of marriage.
<chris2> ok
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<apeiros> imperator: ah, right, you have to be able to pronounce "chuchichäschtli"
<apeiros> j/k
<chris2> germany is much easier i think. dunno the details
<[spoiler]> apeiros: can anyone?
<chris2> is that a kitchen cupboard?
<apeiros> [spoiler]: sure, it's a common word in our dialect
<apeiros> chris2: yes
<chris2> hah
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<[spoiler]> ...is "kitchen cupboard" an euphemism?
<fbernier> trying chruby && ruby-install ... everything installs fine but then I get segfaults with anything "debugger" related or eventmachine related.
<imperator> i'll just call it a "chuchi" for short
<apeiros> imperator: that's just "kitchen" though :)
<imperator> fbernier, platform, version, compiler
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<imperator> (henceforth, i dub this p/v/c check)
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<chris2> ++
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<fbernier> ubuntu 13.04, x64, gcc 4.7.3
<apeiros> chris2: btw., the initiative doesn't actually say it should be 2500.- (re inflation) - that's just a recommendation for todays state of affairs. they say "an amount to live humanely"
<chris2> apeiros: yep
<apeiros> ah, ruby related questions. cutting back OT :)
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<chris2> apeiros: in germany these plans amounted to 1200EUR or something
<apeiros> but if somebody wants to discuss - I find that an interesting topic
<chris2> gtg now
<imperator> fbernier, your ruby is 64bit?
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<imperator> i meant, what version of ruby
<fbernier> ah
<fbernier> 2.0.0p247
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<imperator> got a small sample program that demonstrates the problem?
<fbernier> yeah
<fbernier> irb
<fbernier> require 'debugger'
<fbernier> :P
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<drbrain> looks like a bug in ruby_debug
<eam> I'm trying to piece apart this signal issue myself and I'm a complete newbie with mri internals. It seems that ruby spins up a new thread to handle each ensure, is this correct?
<fbernier> weird it used to work fine with the same ruby version installed with rvm ...
<fbernier> hope this is not due to remains of rvm stuff
<drbrain> eam: ensure? sounds wrong
<drbrain> ensure should run in the same thread
<eam> drbrain: I've traced it to this: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/eval.c#L811
<eam> the *_TAG() macros seem to do something with creating a temporary thread
<eam> though at this point I'm fairly lost
<drbrain> eam: b_proc is the "begin" section, e_proc is the "ensure" section
<eam> but what I can observe is that entering into THIS conditional is the problem: https://github.com/ruby/ruby/blob/trunk/io.c#L6182
<eam> drbrain: ok
<drbrain> the thread stuff is for ensuring that the raised exception (if any) is not cleared for the current thread
<fbernier> imperator, drbrain: ...cleared my ~/.gems directory, reinstalled and now it works
<drbrain> fbernier: \o/
<eam> drbrain: what I'm looking for is something that sets or modifies a signal handler for SIGTERM below that conditional
<fbernier> well debugger works at least
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<eam> what I can observe from debug is that the SIGTERM signal handler deadlocks if signaled there
<eam> I just can't find where it's set or modified
<drbrain> eam: I don't think the pipe stuff messes with signal handling (maybe SIGCHLD)
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<eam> wait, I think I found it
<eam> it's in rb_longjmp()
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<imperator> fbernier, wonder if you were trying to use a version that was built with a different version of ruby
<imperator> i dunno how chruby works
<drbrain> eam: you're running ruby -e'puts $$; IO.popen("sleep 60") { |f| f.read}' ?
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<fbernier> imperator: I suspect that was it yeah ...
<drbrain> if I kill that with TERM I get "Terminated: 15" in my terminal on the first signal (OS X)
<eam> drbrain: I get it only on the second (OSX and centos both)
<eam> what version of ruby on osx?
<drbrain> 2.0.0p247
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<eam> hm, I wonder if this is already fixed
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<eam> I can also reprodue on centos/ ruby 2.0.0p0 (2013-02-24 revision 39474)
<drbrain> I think there were signal handling changes since 2.0.0p0
<postmodern> fbernier, what is your `gem env`
<drbrain> eam: bus time for me
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<eam> drbrain: rad, thanks for your help
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<postmodern> fbernier, if you just upgraded rubies, you might want to rebuild debugger and see if that helps
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<fbernier> postmodern: Still getting segfaults on eventmachine stuff. Something looks broken in my gem env ...
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<fbernier> postmodern: It seems like when I install them manually using "gem install ...", they work. But even if my "bundle install" works, gems with c extensions all break.
<postmodern> fbernier, check `bundle show problem_gem`
<postmodern> fbernier, bundler might be using an old copy from vendor?
<fbernier> /home/francois/.gem/ruby/2.0.0/gems/zookeeper-1.4.6
<postmodern> fbernier, sounds like you just might need to run `gem pristin --all`
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<postmodern> fbernier, or `gem pristin --extensions --all` if you have a newer version of rubygems
<fbernier> trying this out
<fbernier> good idea..
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<fbernier> postmodern: that was it. Thanks.
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<ljarvis> https://gist.github.com/leejarvis/6873452 gtfo ruby you are drunk
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<heftig> >> Array.new(32767) { e = [1].each; e.next; e }
<eval-in> heftig => can't alloc machine stack to fiber (FiberError) ... (https://eval.in/53155)
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<heftig> this fails even if there's enough memory available
<heftig> any idea?
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<yorickpeterse> ljarvis: wat
<yorickpeterse> is this....some kind of type hinting system?
<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: it's a "do not use this type enforcement system"
<yorickpeterse> Ah, so a Fuckyou Hinting system
<ljarvis> precisely
* yorickpeterse can't figure out funny puns on "static typing"
<apeiros> gem install get-off-my-lawn
<[spoiler]> brb 10 mins!
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<yorickpeterse> guys nobody move!
<ljarvis> ^
* yorickpeterse self.freeze
<yorickpeterse> no no!
<yorickpeterse> "yorickpeterse"f
* yorickpeterse runs
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<ljarvis> sigh
<yorickpeterse> haha
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<drbrain> what's the environment variable openssl uses for the certs.pem file?
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<drbrain> looks like SSL_CERT_FILE
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