apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.1.2; 2.0.0-p481; 1.9.3-p545: http://ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<t4nk031> I'm new to ruby, and was wondering if there was a better way to write a Cache in rails than class level hash to hold data that I'm getting from an external web service. If there's a more ruby way, what is it and what terms should I google?
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<bnagy> you might want to try #rubyonrails
<bnagy> I imagine it's a problem people have had before
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<scv_good_to_go> Anyone have any guidance on benchmarking concurrent code?
<scv_good_to_go> I want to check how much faster my code is on Rubinius vs. MRI
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<bnagy> man time ?
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<ljarvis> moin
<apeiros> moin
<maloik> what's used for pdf's by the cool kids these days? Prawn still the best choice?
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<apeiros> princexml
<apeiros> but I guess that's more for the rich kids :o)
<apeiros> (aka company customers)
<maloik> holy moly
<ljarvis> such corporate
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<ljarvis> maloik: yeah prawn is still probably the best unless you wanna hand things out to the shell
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<maloik> been asked to make an app for morticians to let them fill in a template for a 'death letter' to be sent to the printers
<ljarvis> D:
<apeiros> it is very nice. I wished webkit incorporated a liiiittle bit more print css features, would allows us to drop princexml
<ljarvis> how delightful
<maloik> yea
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<maloik> at first I thought it was a joke when they said "death letters as a service"
<apeiros> maloik: if princexml is too expensive: prawn indeed, or some webkit2html
<maloik> but they were dead serious (cwidt)
<maloik> webkit2html might actually be a good idea, that way I can keep the templates pure html until the very last step
<maloik> err
<maloik> 2pdf
<ljarvis> i wish all pdfs were that simple
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<apeiros> ljarvis: IME the worst are pdfs with forms
<apeiros> broken across different pdf viewers
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<ljarvis> yeah I hadn't even thought about that
<ljarvis> glad I haven't had to deal with it
<ljarvis> the last pdf related stuff I had to deal with is creating address labels for customers
<apeiros> we have tons of pdfs, tons of complex pdfs
<apeiros> most coming from our print designers
<apeiros> i.e. not simple layouts
<ljarvis> ugh
<apeiros> by now we've moved to a mixed process of princexml + overlaying precomposited pdfs
<apeiros> i.e., we take the template pdf from the print designers and add "layers" over it with the dynamic data
<apeiros> but it's a horror no matter which way
<ljarvis> :(
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<ljarvis> >> ->(x = ["foo"]) { p x }.(*[])
<eval-in__> ljarvis => ["foo"] ... (https://eval.in/150438)
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<apeiros> ljarvis: huh? that's unexpected
<apeiros> ah, actually it's not
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<ljarvis> I thought that at first
<ljarvis> feels kinda weird still
<ljarvis> (hence my checking)
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<ljarvis> does anyone here use vim and ctrlp?
<maloik> yessir
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<ljarvis> maloik: do you use silver searcher by any chance?
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<maloik> hmmm I think I do
<maloik> been a while since I installed that stuff, let me check
<maloik> (that's the Ag stuff right?)
<ljarvis> I'm wondering if you have a custom ctrlp_user_command
<ljarvis> yep
<ljarvis> does your cntrlp ignore stuff in .gitignore?
<maloik> it does
<ljarvis> bleh
<ljarvis> im trying to make that not happen
<maloik> why?
<maloik> oh
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<maloik> hmmm
<ljarvis> but because im using a customer user command its up to ag
<ljarvis> but --skip-vcs-ignores does not work
<ljarvis> so maybe i give up
<ljarvis> s/customer/custom/
<maloik> I really only ever use that for stuff in /config I think
<maloik> so I just use :e
<ljarvis> yeah fair enough, that's what im doing now too, but i guess i use ctrlp a heck of a lot
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<maloik> everything I have is up on https://github.com/hannesfostie/dotfiles
<maloik> think it's pretty up to date
<ljarvis> snap
<maloik> snap what?
<ljarvis> they're the same heh
<maloik> haha :D
<maloik> open an issue man
<maloik> xD
<ljarvis> t.t
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<maloik> oh wait
<ljarvis> I really need to setup ctags
<maloik> ugh I think I'm half asleep
<maloik> I thought you meant I had that stuff in my own vimrc twice
<ljarvis> no silly
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<ljarvis> I think the thing I use most: map <Leader>l :b#<CR>
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<maloik> what's that
<maloik> (I'm a vim newbie honestly)
<ljarvis> :#b is previous buffer, so when I open up a new buffer, I hit ,l and it flips to the last, so I can switch between 2 buffers quickly
<ljarvis> actually.. ,rn (rename file) is my favourite
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<nagato> :#b
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<maloik> anyone know of a tool that allows you to do tiny screengrabs into gifs ?
<maloik> something cloudapp-like
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<ljarvis> upgrade nokogiri by 1 bugfix level, everything breaks
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<unsymbol> such fun
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<apeiros> ljarvis: praise the job security device XML
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<ljarvis> :)
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<ljarvis> I guess I should find/fix the failure.. we push nokogiri to its limits so i doubt most people will see it
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<yorickpeterse> hail
<oddmunds> moring
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<jwing> what's the best / proper way to execute a block of code upon instantiation of a class (not upon initialization) ? So basically, when the code is 'required' in, it immediately executes a block of code.
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<oddmunds> just put it somewhere in the class?
<jwing> what I am trying to do is read in a file of default values such that upon initialization, they can be used. I don't want to read in those values every time the class is initialized.
<gnufied> yeah, put that in class body
<oddmunds> i guess you'd rather want a class variable that doesn't read the file if it is already read
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<gnufied> outside any method
<jwing> ok. thanks
<apeiros> jwing: use a class method with @config ||= pattern
<apeiros> jwing: having external dependencies on require comes with its own share of problems
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* jwing nods
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<ljarvis> yorickpeterse: I guess rob has given up
<yorickpeterse> Eh? I haven't checked
<yorickpeterse> Too busy cursing at Github pages
<ljarvis> aye
<yorickpeterse> which is dumb as a brick
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<yorickpeterse> herp derp we allow you to use Jekyll but oh what's that you have extra custom directories? Well fuck you too then
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<gnufied> use nanoc!
<yorickpeterse> I concur
<yorickpeterse> but we use Jekyll sadly
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<ericwood> I like jekyll
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<ericwood> but I haven't done anything crazy with it
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<Kero> hrmf, ruby 1.9 fails to properly coerce my subclass of BigDecimal. good thing that I have better rubies where I actually need the subclass :)
<Kero> the subclass is called Euro and automatically rounds to cents
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<apeiros> you're sure it's a bug in ruby and not your code?
<Kero> coerce does not even get called. reasonably sure.
<Kero> works fine under 2.0 and 2.1
<ljarvis> meh 1.9 is old anyway
<DefV> 1.9 is a thing of the past
<ljarvis> an artifact
<ljarvis> if you will
<apeiros> Kero: works fine for me
<apeiros> >> require 'bigdecimal'; BigDecimal("12.34").to_s
<eval-in__> apeiros => (https://eval.in/150603)
<apeiros> meh, can't demonstrate on eval-in
<apeiros> well, 1.9 is not EOL yet @ ljarvis, DefV
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<ljarvis> psh
<ericwood> 1.9 is far from dead
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<DefV> We were being dismissive!
<ericwood> JRuby doesn't have 2 support yet iirc
<ericwood> once it does we'll upgrade :D
<apeiros> require 'bigdecimal'; class X; def coerce(other); [other, BigDecimal("1.23")]; end; end; (BigDecimal("5.23") + X.new).to_s('f') # => "6.46"
<apeiros> Kero: ^
<apeiros> on 1.9.3 as well as on 2.1.2
<headius> ericwood: it's on master
<headius> hopefully out this summer
<ericwood> awesome :)
<ericwood> you rock, headius!
<headius> glad we can help :-)
<apeiros> headius: 2.1 support too?
<Kero> apeiros: class X < BigDecimal
<DefV> wondering if headius is constantly lurking or just hilight on jruby
<apeiros> Kero: ah, missed the subclass part
<Kero> def X.coerce(other) -- this one is never called.
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<headius> apeiros: yeah, JRuby 9k will be either 2.1 or 2.2, depending on how close we get to 2.2 release
<headius> but we should be "caught up" from then on
<apeiros> Kero: works too
<headius> DefV: the latter :-)
<Kero> and I'm mostly surprised, since I remember using coercion in 1.6 times, when it worked :) though bigdecimal might not have existed at that time, and certainly not as stdlib
<Kero> apeiros: try X.new + 1.23 ?
<apeiros> Kero: I can't reproduce. I updated my code and it calls coerce just fine with X < BigDecimal too (had to redefine ::new, seems BigDecimal overrides that)
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<apeiros> Kero: that'll call 1.23.coerce(X.new)
<apeiros> unless your class can deal with it
<apeiros> ah, again… you subclass bigdecimal
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<Kero> apeiros: I suppose it does call 1.23.coerce ; but that in turn triggers X.coerce on 2.0 and 2.1
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<apeiros> headius: nice
<Kero> curious about the ::new that you need, though.
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<apeiros> I still only have small things which use jruby (OCR/QrCode stuff)
<apeiros> Kero: BigDecimal.new wants an argument :)
<apeiros> I guess I should just have passed one
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<Kero> mm, overriding .new does help to get <#Euro rather than <#BigDecimal in printed numbers. useful in any case
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<Kero> #<Euro
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<apeiros> na, that was just me being lazy in a stupid way
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<Kero> 1.9 is trying to be clever. 1.23 + Euro.new does create a Euro for the *result* (not for 1.23), but still returns float... intriguing
<Kero> anyways, can make it work under 1.9 by wrapping BigDecimal rather than subclassing.
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<Kero> call-sequence including coerce() then matches that of 2.0/1
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<apeiros> Kero: is-a is generally much saner for classes you don't own
<apeiros> gah
<apeiros> *has-a*
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<apeiros> is-a is exactly the not so sane choice for classes you don't own :)
<Kero> yeah
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<Kero> *especially* with something like #coerce where syntax and optimizations can be/might/are(?) involved
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<Kero> fun!
<chris2> oh, Kero. hi!
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<Kero> ljarvis: had I accepted 1.9 is outdated, I would not have learned anything ;)
<Kero> chris2: hi!
<chris2> long time no see
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<Kero> indeed, travelled the world and started my own business in the meantime :D
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<chris2> cool
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<Kero> http://code-change.nl/ and I just put up the three links (in the text) from the main page
<Kero> feedback welcome, of course
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<Kero> chris2: and what have you done / are you doing?
<chris2> i thought TDD is out by now ;)
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<chris2> Kero: oh. studying. writing my msc thesis at the moment
<Kero> lol, just listened to the discussion (part 1) of fowler, beck and dhh. very gentle :)
<chris2> typo http://code-change.nl/experience on "yeasr"
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<chris2> Kero: ;)
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<Kero> read over that typo at least twice, today. some additional info about what I did in the 6 years is pending, but I'm unhappy with the phrasing (so not pushed, yet)
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<chris2> prehaps you should limit the line-length, add a bit more margin. the pages look pretty wall-of-texty
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<Kero> agreed. front page also is too-far-to-the-left
<chris2> and i fear your target audience would prefer bullet points over paragraphs :P
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<Kero> mm, probably. shortening text is always the hardest part. so this is useful feedback for me.
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<chris2> i mean, it makes sense when one reads it, but gathering information by glimpsing is a bit hard
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<Kero> splitting over pages, or highlighting certain phrases may help. I'll go over it, but not today. read the texts too many times today already.
<Kero> chris2: what's your msc thesis about?
<chris2> verification of a model checker
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<Kero> cool, what specifically?
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<chris2> i write a model checker for µ-calculus that outputs a certificate
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<chris2> and then i implement a decision procedure to verify formally that when there is a certificate, the check was good
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<Kero> let's see if I get what you say; the model checker outputs a certificate (or not), claiming something about the lambda-calculus (lambda, yes? unicode f*cked up here)
<chris2> mu-calculus
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<cout> lambda mu
<cout> er, moo
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<chris2> well, the classic problem with model checking is that if you refute the expression, you can give a counter example
<Kero> when there is a ceriticate, you claim (w the decision procedure) that the model checker did its job
<chris2> but if you say it's correct, you need to believe it
<chris2> but with such a certificate, you can prove quickly that its correct
<Kero> ah, that helps.
<chris2> (model checking can take exponential time, but certificate checking is polynomial)
* Kero will have to read about lambda-mu, now.
<chris2> just mu calculus
<chris2> that's the algorithm used (by my prof)
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<chris2> but that paper contains quite a few typos which i had to correct ;)
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<Kero> hehe
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<cored> hi
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<cored> I'm trying to scrap all the assets from a site using nokogori; my first implementation search for the <script tags to search for javascript and for the type='text/css' to get all the css files
<ericwood> seems reasonable enough
<cored> but if there are any element that use a image within the css I won't be able to retrieve that image
<whitequark> then you also need to parse css
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<cored> I see
<ericwood> whitequark: if he just removes all style tags and link tags he's fine
<whitequark> what have you expected? :)
<ericwood> assuming I understand the problem
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<whitequark> ericwood: well, if you throw out all assets, you clearly don't need to download them
<whitequark> could as well browse with lynx
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<ericwood> whitequark: I think he's scraping stuff and doing something weird with it
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<whitequark> ericwood: I'm sure cored can speak for himself
<cored> ericwood: not weird
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<cored> hehehe
<cored> I'm trying to build a site map for our homepage s
<ericwood> whitequark: no, I do the speaking 'round here
<whitequark> why do you need images in the sitemap at all?
<whitequark> or scripts
<ericwood> cored: why not just pull out anchor tags and build a graph
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<ericwood> then generate the sitemap based on that info
<cored> so here is the thing that I want to see
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<cored> [url => {urls_inside_that_site => [], assets_for_that_site => []}
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<cored> and at the moment haven't decide between having the script to go recursive on the url's array
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<whitequark> cored: why do you need assets in sitemap?
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<cored> this is for an internal use a report of something like that
<whitequark> you do realize you will never pull out assets that JavaScript refers to?
<cored> hm
<cored> not even with mechanize?
<cored> I can switch to use that instead
<whitequark> not with anything
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<whitequark> say you have a script that lazily loads an image when you hover over an element
<Kero> chris2: I'll have to read up on all this :) hope you are having fun with it
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<yorickpeterse> Metal gear solid soundtracks make coding so much better
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<whitequark> also Mechanize doesn't interpret JS
<ericwood> yeah...
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<ericwood> if you're building a sitemap just parse it with nokogiri and grab the href locations of all anchor tags
<ericwood> build up an internal graph of what points to what
<ericwood> then spew it out into some HTML or whatever
<yorickpeterse> cored: you can try and use PhantomJS
<yorickpeterse> If JS is your thing
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<cored> ericwood: yes i have that sorted out
<cored> I have all the links by now
<ericwood> woohoo!
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: it wouldn't work.
<whitequark> determining what assets JS refers to is turing-complete
<whitequark> it doesn't matter what buzzword do you use
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: except PhantomJS is a fully fledged browser so I believe you can pull that shit in
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: as I've said: it doesn't matter.
<yorickpeterse> That is, if your CSS sets some background image to a <div> you can pull it in
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<cored> whitequark: isn't 'turing complete' a buzzword also?
<cored> just checking
<whitequark> cored: no?
<cored> :-P
<cored> just kidding
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<yorickpeterse> But yes, you don't need assets in a sitemap
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: well, you can trivially pull the urls from css without a complete browser
<yorickpeterse> Since, well, who's going to use that?
<cored> so I think I will just retrieve the proper links the site in hand is refering to, and wait if the people needing this complain
<whitequark> parsing css is trivial
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<ericwood> the whole BNF for CSS is like 50 lines
<ericwood> or less
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: except you now also need to evaluate CSS
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: enjoy not getting anything done
<whitequark> no?
<whitequark> just pull out all url(...)s from it
<ericwood> can we never talk about parsers ever
<whitequark> no
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* ericwood has flashbacks to his compilers course, shivers
<whitequark> parsers are cool and simple
<yorickpeterse> except that one that is used to parse Ruby
<JohnHirbour> just like regular expressions...
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<ericwood> lol your twitter says otherwise whitequark
<yorickpeterse> Everything whitequark says should be taken with a grain of parse.y
* yorickpeterse runs
<whitequark> ericwood: hm?
<ericwood> HMMMM
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<yorickpeterse> hm
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<chris2> Kero: its pretty nice, yes
<chris2> i'm only at the first step, tho
<chris2> cant figure out yet how hard the proof will be :P
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<cored> yorickpeterse: you were right; with the Metal Gear Solid soundtrack
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<yorickpeterse> SNAAAKKKKEEEE EAAATERRRRRRR
<yorickpeterse> I try very hard not to sing along here
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<yorickpeterse> also yay, from 0% code coverage to 55% in only 6 months
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<Kero> chris2: a real Challenge then; good !
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<r_s_h> For hashes, how do you discard a key but retain the value? Is there something more simple than assigning the value to a variable and wiping out the hash?
<eam> where would you want to retain the value?
<banister> r_s_h hash.delete(:key)
<banister> >> h = { hello: "baby" }; h.delete(:hello)
<eval-in__> banister => "baby" (https://eval.in/150715)
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<r_s_h> ah so I have to store the value somewhere then, the hash will be empty
<r_s_h> thanks
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<ljarvis> banister: have you spoken to rob?
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<banister> ljarvis nup
<banister> ljarvis u
<yorickpeterse> hail
<ljarvis> banister: no, he's gone quiet which is concerning a bit
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<jwing> Why does the code in this pastebin not match? http://pastebin.com/7SStF0PY I'm sure this is something obvious. But, I am truly clueless. :/
<jwing> I have used several different regex's with no success on any.
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<apeiros> jwing: replace `print ">",key,"<\n"` with "p class: key.class, value: key`
<jwing> huh? that line just outputs the iterative key.
<jwing> so I can see what's being operated on.
<jwing> key =~ /./ never matches
<jwing> and I'd think that /./ should match anything that has at least 1 character in it.
<apeiros> jwing: yes, and I tell you to replace it with something which gives other info
<jwing> oh.. ok
<apeiros> most importantly, the class of your keys
<apeiros> because I suspect they're not strings.
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<apeiros> >> Object.new =~ /./
<eval-in__> apeiros => nil (https://eval.in/150717)
<jwing> it didn't like that syntax
<jwing> syntax error, unexpected ':' (SyntaxError)
<jwing> p class: key.class, value: key
<apeiros> oh dear, you're using ruby 1.8?!?
<jwing> yes
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<apeiros> dude, that version is dead.
<wallerdev> haha
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* jwing kinda stuck w/ it atm
<apeiros> p :class => key.class, :value => key
<apeiros> and really, get rid of that corpse
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<jwing> lol
<wallerdev> its okay someone a couple days ago was asking for a fix for rails 1
<jwing> {:value=>:ttl, :class=>Symbol}
<jwing> blame RHEL.. they don't like to believe in the present.. or close. ;-)
<apeiros> wallerdev: lol. I bet they were jumping to fix that bug
<apeiros> jwing: blame the person using RHEL
<apeiros> jwing: blame the person thinking he has to stick with the package manager™
<jwing> they all are of class Symlob
<jwing> Symbol. Not my choice I'm afraid. :/
<apeiros> jwing: in 1.8, Symbol could not be matched using =~
<apeiros> key.to_s =~ /./
<jwing> ah.. thanks
<yorickpeterse> jwing: use EPEL if you can use that on RHEL
<apeiros> jwing: well, it will never be your choice if you don't make a stink
<yorickpeterse> I think EPEL has 1.9 in it
<jwing> They already think I stink enough. ;-)
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, apparently EPEL does not have Ruby
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<yorickpeterse> but it does have RVM, lol
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<eam> EPEL has rubygems but they're 1.8
<badeball> apeiros: sticking with the package manager is usually a nice, but there are better distros out there (in terms of not having only outdated packages) than redhat (which is terrible at pretty much everything)
<badeball> s/nice/nice idea/
<eam> lots of good reasons to use the package manager - the world isn't webapps
<apeiros> damn, stuck in the 18th level of portal :(
<eam> badeball: redhat is pretty much the only serious choice for large scale stuff
<badeball> eam: I don't believe for a second
<eam> badeball: empirically observable :)
<yorickpeterse> eam: I hope you are currently high on crack
<badeball> eam: thihi
<eam> show me a large scale development enterprise (>5k developers on a common platform) using anything but
<eam> software lifecycle is really important
<apeiros> eam: does google use redhat?
<yorickpeterse> eam: Amazon
<yorickpeterse> AWS to be exact
<eam> yorickpeterse: their development platform is on ?
<eam> apeiros: inhouse from what I hear, they've replicated the work RHEL does
<yorickpeterse> eam: AWS pushes really hard on Amazon CentOS and considers it the defacto default. It's based on CentOS, which is based on RHEL, but it's pretty darn different from both
<eam> yorickpeterse: sure, centos/scientific/rhel are the same thing
<eam> it's not differnet at all
<eam> it's just a rebuild without the limited components
<yorickpeterse> Amazon Linux is pretty fucking different
<eam> fully compatible
<yorickpeterse> and it's not fully compatible at all
<yorickpeterse> Don't spread lies
<eam> yorickpeterse: oh amazon linux
<eam> yorickpeterse: I'm asking you, what do they develop on
<eam> not what do they provide for containers
<eam> that's what I'm talking about
<yxhuvud> wallerdev: I'm quite certain we have a old legacy ticket system that still use rails 1.x. I've spent like half an hour updating it in the 4 hours I've been working here :P
<yorickpeterse> They haven't provided that info that I know of
<badeball> eam: I'm won't claim that redhat does not have anything of use, but most platforms does not consist of anything even remotely close to >5k developers
<eam> anyone running a huge software development shop is going to care about lifecycle problems that RHEL-alikes solve and that other distros typically just don't address
<yorickpeterse> Amazon in general is not very open about their behind-the-scenes stuff
<eam> and anyone who doesn't have those concerns is going to be "omg old packages" and may even run gentoo or something ridiculous
<eam> different needs for different undertakings
<eam> The "E" in RHEL is instructive
<yxhuvud> uh, 4 *years*
<eam> 4 years is a fairly short lifecycle
<yxhuvud> it was already old when I started though.
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<yorickpeterse> Also word has it Facebook uses some weird custom Linux flavour
<yorickpeterse> Though it's hard to come by recent info
<yorickpeterse> Google uses an Ubuntu flavour for development
<yorickpeterse> I can dig up more if you'd like
<yorickpeterse> Case in point, saying that you need RHEL for large scale is bullshit
<eam> google does a lot of crazy platform stuff, they patched their linker I hear
<yorickpeterse> Saying it's a popular choice, for whatever reason, is valid
<eam> popular is relative. RHEL-family wins hands down for enterprise and large scale
<eam> unless you're large enough to roll your own
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<eam> ubuntu wins for small stuff
<eam> everything exists for a reason
<yorickpeterse> <eam> badeball: redhat is pretty much the only serious choice for large scale stuff
<yorickpeterse> I think I just disproved your point above
<yorickpeterse> but w/e
<eam> yorickpeterse: where?
<JohnHirbour> RHEL is super slow for php updates… (we're mixed language here.. migrating away from php at least)
<yorickpeterse> eam: read up
<eam> yorickpeterse: I did, I didn't see any counterexamples
<yorickpeterse> Stating it's "pretty much the only choice" when there's pretty big companies running something other than RHEL
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<eam> yorickpeterse: didn't see any running a non-inhouse custom setup
<badeball> I still maintain a feeling that everyone I've come cross that uses redhat shouldn't have and would have been equally or better of just using something else (however, I have not "come across" amazon, google or facebook)
<yxhuvud> I believe using redhat/centos as a starting point for building company specific distros is pretty common. I know we do that, and we are not a large enterprise by any means (10 devs)
<eam> yorickpeterse: I apologize for not sharing details btw
<eam> I'm not going to talk about company internal stuff on irc, but I am well aware of what the big players do internally
<yorickpeterse> eam: I get your point that RHEL certainly is the biggest player, but saying it's pretty much a requirement is dumb
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<yorickpeterse> Either way, I think we can all agree that using RHEL for development is a bad idea
<eam> yorickpeterse: the thing is, if you do a huge amount of custom development, having a stable base is of utmost important
<eam> change management is a huge, huge concern
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<eam> if you're just writing ruby, well, you don't care much
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<yorickpeterse> True, but if you care that much about it you're probably not going to use a vanilla Linux anyway
<yorickpeterse> e.g. Amazon using their own Linux flavour to have more control
<eam> but if you're building kernel modules and huge inhouse serving stacks then it's really useful to build on something with a known lifecycle (so you can spin up teams accordingly)
<eam> yorickpeterse: yeah, when you're REALLY big you can do that
<eam> but they essentially are building on the framework RHEL architected
<yxhuvud> eam: right. you update the packages you need to, and have stability elsewhere.
<eam> yxhuvud: well, generally you roll updates into an app deploy, distinct from the system
<eam> who cares if /usr/lib is old, $APP/lib is new, etc
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<eam> it's a container
<yxhuvud> we don't do that, but yes you are probably correct.
<eam> that's more or less also why the folks who do use RHEL don't care about "new packages"
<eam> generally
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<darix> eam: which is wrong
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<darix> they care about stable packages and the latest of their pet packages
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<eam> darix: eh?
<darix> eam: from my experience people want everything stable on their server
<darix> but usually use the latest greatest for their actual workload
<eam> why is that wrong?
<eam> darix: consider: applications with inhouse code have a deployment process which is focused on rollback -- odds are HIGH your code may have an issue
<darix> i dont say that is wrong. but you said they dont care about new packages.
<darix> and from my experience they do care.
<eam> much lower barrier to change and un-change vs updating systemic components like a kernel or core library which touches all things
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<eam> darix: oh, yes, I agree. I mean they don't care about updating the system
<eam> because you can always carry what you use with a deploy
<eam> and for the most part (but not always) if you think you need to upgrade your kernel to make your app efficient you're wrong
<eam> uniformity of environment trumps micro-optimizations
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<eam> bundler is good for that, btw. Dealing with ruby apps using system-wide gems is just pain
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<j`ey> anyone had any luck with gem install nokogiri on OSX 10.9?
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<j`ey> I get missing libxml errors
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<chris2> apeiros: Can we ban Felipe from the ML? If he's been a positive contributor in the past, perhaps it can be a temporary ban.
<chris2> haha :D
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<apeiros> I don't think you can people from the ML :)
<apeiros> is he still raving?
<chris2> git-list
<chris2> but i give it a few days
<chris2> junio is really pissed off by now :D
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<apeiros> link please? I wanna see drama :D
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<apeiros> thx
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<zenspider> chris2: is he still going?
<j`ey> Is there a way to have some "default" parameters to gem install?
<chris2> zenspider: not on ruby-talk afaics
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<j`ey> I want to add something to "gem install x", like, defautly add "-- --blah" to the end
<ljarvis> j`ey: maybe try adding `-- --blah` to ~/.gemrc gem: install: key
<zenspider> chris2: oh thank god. I was so tired of all that dick wagging
<j`ey> ljarvis: thanks, I just came across that, will give it a go
<zenspider> j`ey: yup! make a .gemrc
<zenspider> hrm... lemme find something for you
<j`ey> I just put "install: -- -blah" in .gemrc
<ljarvis> yeah that's what i'd do
<ljarvis> did it work?
<j`ey> trying it out
<zenspider> `gem help env`
* j`ey can't remember the last time he was in #ruby-lang
<zenspider> wow my shit is laaaaaggggyyyy
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<zenspider> huh. erc says 0 lag, but ...
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<j`ey> hm, didn't seem to work..
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<elia> j`ey, have you tried brew install libxml2 and similar stuff?
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<elia> j`ey, btw I just installed with latest mavericks rvm and ruby (2.1.2)
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<j`ey> elia: I managed to build it with passing some options
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<j`ey> what could be the reason that bundler is trying to install a gem, rather than use the already-installed one?
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<workmad3> j`ey: could be that the version already installed doesn't satisfy the dependency graph
<j`ey> other than version, how could a single gem affect things?
<j`ey> (and the version it wants is the one I have instaled)
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<zenspider> j`ey: what problem are you having?
<j`ey> bunlder seems to be trying to install nokogiri.. rather than using the one I have
<j`ey> and.. the default way of building it isn't working for me
<zenspider> "isn't working" isn't information
<zenspider> 1) what version do you have? 2) what version is bundler trying to install? 3) what _actual_ error are you getting?
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<zenspider> 4) what version of the dev tools do you have installed?
<zenspider> 5) what version of ruby are you using?
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<j`ey> 1) 1.6.2, 2) 1.6.2 3) libxml2 is missing. 4) the latest xcode
<j`ey> 5) ruby 2.0.0p353
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<j`ey> I have built, and installed nokogiri
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<j`ey> but bundler doesn't pick it up for some reason, and having things in my .gemrc.. seems to have no effect
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<zenspider> j`ey: I've got a repro. I'm discussing it w/ tenderlove
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<j`ey> zenspider: oh, cool!
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<j`ey> zenspider: can you ping me if you discover anything interesting?
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<zenspider> j`ey: are you using stock ruby or rvm or rbenv? or what?
<j`ey> stock
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<zenspider> I can repro with stock ruby... tenderlove can't get the same repro. he's failing on mini_portile
<zenspider> dunno why
<j`ey> what are you actually doing to repro?
<j`ey> just installking nokogir, and then using a bundle to install it?
<j`ey> or are you looking at why nokogiri doesnt build with the default "gem install"?
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<zenspider> my repro: gem i -i xxx nokogiri -V
<zenspider> and now I'm repro'ing down at the linker level
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<zenspider> ok. I found the first problem. the config command includes -llibxml2 instead of -lxml2
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<zenspider> I get other failures after fixing that, having to do with architectures of the libraries...
<zenspider> but the first part is entirely suspect and seems to be a tooling issue
<zenspider> which tool? no clue
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<j`ey> zenspider: can you paste the later errors?
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<zenspider> not now. neck deep
<j`ey> ok
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<zenspider> j`ey: tenderlove MIGHT have a fix, but he can't repackage and test the gem because of tooling issues.
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<zenspider> I suspect his changes are correct, tho there might be more issues as he and I had different issues at different times. I definitely saw a faulty command, but that might be a tangent after his fix is applied
<j`ey> zenspider: thanks, I'll bookmark that
<zenspider> just watch it, and youll get updates
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<j`ey> can I watch an issue?
* j`ey clicked subscribe, whatever that does
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<zenspider> that should work
<zenspider> looks like a fix is in from knu, and mike is gonna ship it
<j`ey> is mike tenderlove?
<j`ey> and by "ship" it, do you mean, change the gem, so I can just try again in X hours?
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