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<Technodrome>
I understand how mechanize works fairly well now , blah
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<benhuda>
hello
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<yorickpeterse>
morning
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<maloik>
hi
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<ljarvis>
hi
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<yorickpeterse>
heh, this one customer has been promoted to their own folder in my Email account
<yorickpeterse>
on a sidenote, they're driving me to the brink of insanity (more so than I already am)
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<Fox3>
Hello, I am looking for someone that can answer a question about RoR for me. I'm a PHP user currently, have never used any sort of Framework and I can't get my head around it.
<yorickpeterse>
Just ask your question, although #rubyonrails is typically better for Rails specific questions
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<Fox3>
From what I understand, using a framework will allow me to use already available code to perform certain "tasks". I'm interested to know how using Rails would accomplish something such as a secure user login to, say, an administration area of a website.
<Fox3>
Oops! I jumped into this IRC from the Ruby site, my mistake.
<yorickpeterse>
Rails itself doesn't do authentication, but there are plenty of libraries that can handle that for you
<yorickpeterse>
Unless you're building the next Twitter or Google I wouldn't worry too much about it
<Fox3>
Do you happen to have a recommendation on what I should use? The App I'm looking to develop would be SaaS based preferably.
<yorickpeterse>
Do you want to build an interface, or just an API?
<yorickpeterse>
If an interface: stick with Rails since you're new
<yorickpeterse>
If an API: go with Sinatra
<Fox3>
Hmm
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<Fox3>
It wouldn't be necessary to have interactions between them...I do have one "common" table that I would like shared amongst the group, but that's about the extent of it.
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<Fox3>
Man, I haven't felt like such a newbie in a long time!!
<yorickpeterse>
What I mean is, do you want something where users can click around?
<yorickpeterse>
Or do you want something another application would use
<Fox3>
Yes
<yorickpeterse>
e.g. something like the Twitter web app vs the Twitter API
<yorickpeterse>
Yes to what?
<Fox3>
Sorry, yes to the clicking around.
<Fox3>
Interface
<jhass>
say what you're concretely doing if you want any sane recommendations, so far my buzzword bullshit bingo is decently filled tbh
<Fox3>
funny, I couldn't type "yes" fast enough.
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<Fox3>
Ok...
<yorickpeterse>
Then I'd stick with Rails
<yorickpeterse>
jhass: take it easy there
<jhass>
well, I still have not the slightest idea what they're trying to build
<jhass>
so personally I couldn't recommend a stack
<yorickpeterse>
jhass: it's a newbie, don't expect them to know exactly what they want
<yorickpeterse>
Fox3: either way, I'd stick with Rails in this case
<Fox3>
I'm building an application that I want users to be able to access on the web. My background is in web development and not so much application development. From what I have read, the SaaS model is the ideal way to go. I've also read that PHP is not ideal for this type of development, so I'm researching other languages and this has also lead me to using a framework.
<yorickpeterse>
access what on the web?
<jhass>
I think you said that already ;)
<tbuehlmann>
what's the difference between your web development and application development?
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<Fox3>
In my current line of experience, the (very poor, but easy to explain) solution would be to setup a new website for each new member and upload a new copy of the application...
<jhass>
for sane recommendations you need to provide what you're service shall be doing, what rough userbase your expect and what rough userbase growth you expect
<Fox3>
I see.
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<Fox3>
I apologize for being so vague, like I said, I'm still getting my head around a lot of this.
<yorickpeterse>
Fox3: what will your users be doing? Lets start there
<jhass>
you can be vague, but don't be vague on the technologies you think you want, be vague on the concept you want to realize at least
<Fox3>
I'm thinking how to explain it properly...one sec.
<jhass>
like "I want to build an online service where users can share short messages with each other"
<Fox3>
I want to build an online service where users can manage a database
<Fox3>
at no time will they be interacting with any other users
<jhass>
a database for what?
<Fox3>
aircraft maintenance.
<Fox3>
I'm an aircraft engineer by trade and a programmer by hobby.
<Fox3>
People who own their own aircraft traditionally use an excel spreadsheet for maintenance tracking.
<Fox3>
I want to build an application to replace their spreadsheet
<jhass>
alright, doesn't sound like you need to handle sudden spikes in growth tbh, you should be good with a single fairly decent box to run your app and don't need to worry about how to scale it in the early development phase at all
<Fox3>
ok
<Fox3>
that sounds right to me
<Fox3>
It's tough to predict the growth rate however.
<Fox3>
But that's a relative thing I suppose too...is a sudden spike 1000 users, or 10,000 users or?
<yorickpeterse>
Honestly at this point the last thing you want to worry about is scaling
<yorickpeterse>
You'll spend far too much time optimizing for theoratical use cases, instead of building the actual thing
<jhass>
that's relative to your current userbase
<Fox3>
My concern is that I want to start out in the right direction and not have to go back too far if it does require scaling in the future.
<jhass>
if you have 50 users, 50 new ones would be a spike, if you have 5000 users, 1000 would be a spike
<yorickpeterse>
Especially the well known Knuth quote
<Fox3>
hence why I'm looking to move away from PHP
<Fox3>
I see
<yorickpeterse>
Build your app first, make it work, then worry about performance
<jhass>
^
<Fox3>
I understand.
<Fox3>
Are you recommending that I stay with PHP and not start learning Ruby?
<jhass>
I think nobody in this channel will recommend PHP over Ruby ;P
<tbuehlmann>
:)
<Fox3>
I like the idea of learning framework
<Fox3>
lol...good point
<Fox3>
I suppose people who previously used PHP might have some insight though?
<jhass>
sure, and if nothing else comes out of it, you still have learned new concepts that you can apply elsewhere
<jhass>
every language and almost every framework will teach you at at least one new thing that you can apply in general, it's hardly ever wasted effort
<yorickpeterse>
I suggest you steer cleer of PHP unless you're into sadism
<Fox3>
I like the theory that a framework will help get a project done faster while maintaining consistency and not having to make every little piece of code.
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<Fox3>
HAHA
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<jhass>
I think the hardest part about your idea is getting the datamodel right though, not what technologies to use to implement it
<Fox3>
I currently have a bunch of code that I reuse and it's annoying because I'm sure that it's not even close to efficient.
<Fox3>
that's a good point.
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<Fox3>
the datamodel is in my head at the moment.
<Fox3>
This is where I'm having difficulty getting my head around how to impliment the idea.
<Fox3>
I'm self taught, so that doesn't make it any easier.
<jhass>
and I'm not sure if I would recommend a classic RDBMS or a document store here, would need to stare at some concrete use cases I guess
<Fox3>
RDBMS is where my experience is
<Fox3>
I've never used a document store
<jhass>
maybe start with writing out a few use cases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case), that should help in getting a clearer idea of what your requirements are
<Fox3>
Good idea, thank you
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<Fox3>
All in all, I enjoy learning new things, so if RoR is the idea choice, then that's what I want to do.
<Fox3>
or if it's not then I'll focus on whatever is.
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<jhass>
yeah, RoR should be good to go for this
<Fox3>
again...not the best place to ask!
<Fox3>
Needless to say, I've read a lot of interesting articles on Ruby/Python/PERL in the last week
<yorickpeterse>
You _really_ want an RDBMS for this stuff
<yorickpeterse>
Data like this isn't data you can afford to lose, or to be inconsistent
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<Fox3>
I'm happy with that statement
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<Fox3>
I'm happy with RDBMS
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<Fox3>
one less thing to learn ;)
<ljarvis>
oh you'll need to learn it
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<Fox3>
Of course, I don't claim to be an expert, I just mean at least it's something I've been working with
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<jhass>
not that yorickpeterse would ever use a document store for anything :P
<Fox3>
What is the preferred database to use with the Ruby language?
<Fox3>
MySQL?
<yorickpeterse>
jhass: bro we use Mongo for webscale
<jhass>
yorickpeterse: that's why, isn't it?
<ljarvis>
ActiveScale
<yorickpeterse>
Fox3: PostgreSQL
<yorickpeterse>
Although MySQL works equally well support wise
<tbuehlmann>
*agreeing*
<jhass>
^ postgres is just the saner DBMS
<surrounder>
what jhass says
<jhass>
latest MySQL fun story: CONVERT TO utf8_mb4 from an utf8 table changes your TEXT into MEDIUMTEXT
<yorickpeterse>
sounds reasonable
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<yorickpeterse>
but did you active SQL strict mode????1!!1
<yorickpeterse>
* activate
<yorickpeterse>
clearly you have no idea what you're talking about
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<yorickpeterse>
- HackerNews in a nutshell
<jhass>
I have to admit though that I never realized that the limit to the TEXT is bytes and not characters
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<tbuehlmann>
that's what confuses me in a rails migration as well, limit is not about chars
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<darix>
i guess the limit depends on the DB
<darix>
also keep in mind
<darix>
with combined characters in UTF-8 you can have multi kilobyte chars ;)
<darix>
heftig: chrome://flags/ has something about spdy
<yorickpeterse>
tubbo: Why do you want to undefine a class?
<darix>
tubbo: btw there is an answer from ljarvis
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<tubbo>
yorickpeterse: i actually don't :P but the tech lead on this project rejected my PR and told me to do it.
<jhass>
tubbo: describe creates an anonymous class (or module? I don't remember), so your class is defined in that
<tubbo>
yorickpeterse: basically i need a class to be there to test whether i can turn the constant into a title and an underscored option value.
<jhass>
so remove_const on self should do I think
<tubbo>
darix: yeah...it doesn't seem to work for me, Object::FooBar is never defined.
<jhass>
but it's an anonymous namespace, so it's indeed rather pointless
<tubbo>
honestly if it's pointless that's all i need to know
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<jhass>
you already proved with that code that it doesn't pollute the global namespace ;)
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<tubbo>
true haha
<yorickpeterse>
tubbo: use Class.new
<tubbo>
is there a better way to test this that doesn't look so...polluted? :)
<yorickpeterse>
Class.new { .... }.new
<tubbo>
yorickpeterse: orly
<yorickpeterse>
Yeah, it just creates an anonymous class
<jhass>
tubbo: double(name: "FooBar") ? hard to tell
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<heftig>
darix: spdy makes things worse for me. a lot.
<heftig>
darix: flags only allow activating spdy v4 aka http2; there is no option for disallowing spdy 3 or earlier
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<darix>
heftig: make it worse how?
<heftig>
terrible head-of-line blocking, aborting loads is not possible, blocked pipeline causing timeouts which kill the whole connection
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<heftig>
that 10MB image stuck in the queue WILL be sent and sent first, i can't abort the load via esc or by closing the tab and the if there are any other things waiting in the pipeline those will timeout somewhere causing not only that 10MB image to loading but cancelling all pending loads
<heftig>
terrible, terrible user experience
<heftig>
happens in both firefox and chrome, but deactivate spdy in firefox and everything is fine again :|
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<tubbo>
ljarvis: hey thanks for the SO answer :)
<tubbo>
the example helped because while i rememberd the method, i didn't quite remember what to call it on
<tubbo>
remembered*
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<rrdein>
I am trying to use the code below in a file called test.cgi on my webserver (shared hosting). When I visit the file it tries to download "test.cgi" instead of displaying the correct code. I am on a wordpress installation. Anyone use Ruby for CGI, and know why this isn't working? I think it may be because the host doesn't have Ruby, in which case I am wondering if I can simply upload Ruby
<rrdein>
somewhere on my host and point to it in the file.
<havenwood>
rrdein: It's pretty normal to run a Rack app and just reverse proxy to its port or socket from Nginx or Apache or whatever.
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<havenwood>
rrdein: Rails is a complicated Rack adapter but you can make a simple Rack app or use a minimalist Rack adapter.
<rrdein>
Even though that "simplifies" things, I think adding an extra application layer right now will just confuse me. Mostly what I'm trying to do right now is figure out how I can run CGI on my web host with the only language I know besides AWK
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<rrdein>
I'm wondering if Ruby would run if I just uploaded the Ruby package and pointed to the ruby command?
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