apeiros changed the topic of #ruby to: Rules & more: https://ruby-community.com || Ruby 2.3.1; 2.2.5; 2.1.10: https://www.ruby-lang.org || Paste >3 lines of text on https://gist.github.com || Rails questions? Ask on #RubyOnRails || logs @ https://irclog.whitequark.org/ruby/
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<bonhoeffer> what is the relationship between ruby and c? the compiler could be in c (or java, or ruby) right? is that it?
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<bonhoeffer> i just know when installing ruby, there seem to be lots of c that gets installed
<bonhoeffer> so i'm led to the think that ruby has lots of c libraries to work
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<elomatreb> bonhoeffer: The Ruby interpreter is written in C. Additionally, bindings to external libraries (for example mysql) are usually also written in C
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<bonhoeffer> elomatreb: the ruby interpreter? is that the same as the compiler?
<bonhoeffer> for jruby, is the interpreter written in python?
<bonhoeffer> java, sorry
<elomatreb> Ruby is an interpreted language, so there is no actual compiler
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<bonhoeffer> got it -- could you say it has a JIT?
<bonhoeffer> and then for jruby, the interpreter is in java?
<bonhoeffer> btw, JIT == just in time compiler -- like Julia
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<elomatreb> Some Ruby implementations use JIT, not all of them
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: Ruby used to have an interpreter (MRI) and now with Ruby 1.9+ it has a VM (YARV). JRuby has a JIT. Rubinius used to have a JIT.
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<bonhoeffer> ah . . . ok -- very helpful
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<bonhoeffer> does ruby use llvm IR?
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: no
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: Ruby uses YARV bytecode, specific to CRuby.
<elomatreb> But while YARV is a VM, it can't store and later execute the bytecode like for example the JVM
<bonhoeffer> is there a basic way to think about YARV (vm) vs a JIT?
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: JRuby and Rubinius use their own bytecode.
<bonhoeffer> so ruby is similar to javascript in this way? (bytecode)
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<elomatreb> Almost no modern language uses an actual line-based interpreter anymore, so it is similar to almost every modern language that is not compiled to native code
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: No, the YARV VM doesn't JIT compile to machine code at present.
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: YARV bytecode doesn't count.
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<elomatreb> havenwood: Not all JS engines do either, right? That's just a V8 thing I though?
<bonhoeffer> i'm not sure what bytecode is -- is that like elf
<elomatreb> *thought
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<bonhoeffer> reading up :)
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<matthewd> bonhoeffer: Are you asking for a particular reason? There may be a more direct answer to your underlying question
<bonhoeffer> no -- just trying to understand what is behind the curtain
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<bonhoeffer> i'm a management type -- i'm funding the julia language -- but am a long time ruby coder
<bonhoeffer> i also fund a lot of assembly work, so a lot of low-level conversations that I'm always trying to follow
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<bonhoeffer> i'm currently reviewing machine learning proposals, and a lot of them talk about high performance computing and new code that uses stuff like google TPU, etc
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<bonhoeffer> but alas, i spend all day in meetings, so i'm basically a 10 year old with my understanding of all this
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: If you get a chance, checkout Pat Shaughnessy's book, Ruby Under a Microscope.
<bonhoeffer> havenwood: def. will do
<bonhoeffer> ordering now
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<bonhoeffer> so, i'm having trouble listing the differences between bytecode and llvm IR
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: Two different IRs.
<bonhoeffer> ok -- that helps
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<bonhoeffer> any reason why not llvm
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<bonhoeffer> vhs betamax stupidity
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: there was worry of typing Ruby's lifespan to LLVMs, however permanent it seems at the moment
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<bonhoeffer> got it
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<bonhoeffer> so the ruby interpreter is in c. period -- but jruby and rubinus are different rubies
<havenwood> tying*
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: I think Matz talks about LLVM JIT options in the RubyConf 2015 Q/A, unsure.
<bonhoeffer> ok
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: Yes, JRuby and Rubinius are different Ruby engines.
<havenwood> >> RUBY_ENGINE
<ruby[bot]> havenwood: # => "ruby" (https://eval.in/657340)
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: That's CRuby ^
<bonhoeffer> what spec do they follow? i imagine they are identical
<bonhoeffer> a little confused why they are needed
<bonhoeffer> or wanted
<havenwood> bonhoeffer: On JRuby: RUBY_ENGINE #=> "jruby"
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<havenwood> bonhoeffer: Ruby has an official ISO standard for the language but the defacto spec is: https://github.com/ruby/spec
<bonhoeffer> ah, cool
<elomatreb> ISO 30170
<havenwood> On Rubinius: RUBY_ENGINE #=> "rbx"
<havenwood> All three also now support RUBY_ENGINE_VERSION as compared to RUBY_VERSION which is what's implemented.
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<zenspider> anyone have any idea why manually running the args to `spawn` would work fine (running some tests in a subprocess) but the actual spawn would fail?
<zenspider> .../.rbenv/versions/trunk-cov/...:in `require': cannot load such file -- minitest/autorun (LoadError).
<zenspider> it's stumping me
<zenspider> rubinius... *snorts*
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<matthewd> zenspider: bundler messing with load path?
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<zenspider> no bundler
<zenspider> and the only thing I'm interacting with is a manually installed minitest. the outer process is able to find it. the subprocess is not
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<ruby-lang003> hello
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<imightbestupid12> does matz know every ruby method in ruby core?
<imightbestupid12> and the std lib?
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<imightbestupid12> so what does it mean to be a ruby "expert"
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<matthewd> imightbestupid12: Whatever you want it to mean, I suppose
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<imightbestupid12> no i mean really
<imightbestupid12> what are the requirements to become a python expert
<imightbestupid12> ruby*
<imightbestupid12> sorry
<matthewd> imightbestupid12: With more experience, yes, you're more familiar with available methods etc... but once you're comfortable with syntax, it's all a pretty open continuum of practice
<imightbestupid12> so basically, the more methods you know the better right?
<matthewd> Within limits, ... maybe?
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<matthewd> There isn't a list of things you should work to memorize in order to be an expert, if that's what you're asking
<imightbestupid12> yeah that's what i am asking
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<matthewd> I can't think of many skills in life, in general, that one can become good at -- let alone expert -- just by memorizing a set of things experts tend to know
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<kang0> Anyone free to chat offtopic?
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<baweaver> imightbestupid12: Dunning Krueger effect, you might take a look into it.
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<baweaver> short version: people who probably are experts rate themselves far more poorly than they deserve and people who are new tend to rank themselves far more highly than they should.
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<baweaver> that being said, don't focus on learning everything about the hammer, you still need to actually build the house
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<atmosx> Hello, I see that some people when designing API's opt for returning the JSON object after a successfull POST request which will create a enw resource. Other return just the status code. Is there any generally acceptable best practice?
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<hanmac> atmosx: i think the best way would be Json or some data where the id of the new created resource is returned ... without the client might not know what he did create
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<gener1c> apeiros: i am reading your code an i found this module https://github.com/soleboxy/silverplatter-irc/blob/master/lib/ruby/ostruct.rb
<gener1c> did you add def[](field) because it wasnt implemented back then?
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<linux2784> rubby is the best amirite?
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<gener1c> rubby?
<gener1c> you mean ruby or a rub?
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<ljarvis> heh
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<apeiros> gener1c: correct
<apeiros> it was written when 1.8.2 was out
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<apeiros> no Struct#to_h either (nor #to_h naming convention)
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<gener1c> apeiros: thanks :)
<gener1c> will inquire more latere
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<car> hi, why is FileUtils.chmod_R(2775,/dir, :verbose => true) doing chmod -R 5327 /dir ? and how to make it work. any hint ?
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<car> (using ruby 2.1.8p440 (2015-12-16 revision 53160) [x86_64-linux])
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<car> ah, octall
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