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<fbt>
Hmmm. I remember this being in codecademy, but can't easily find it: how do I access a class instance variable from said class' method?
<Ropeney>
` :attr_accessor` ?
<fbt>
Ah. Right!
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<fbt>
I've done an extremely silly thing. I've made a class called panel and am now spawning an instance, drawing it via its methods and letting it die
<fbt>
Over and over :3
<fbt>
For no good reason, a simple variable would do there
<Ropeney>
the fun of learning :D
<Ropeney>
Enjoy the time getting the biggest gains on silly mistakes
<fbt>
Yeah. The fun of learning that objects don't actually solve every problem :D
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<fbt>
So yeah, a simple method with an array takes 3/4 less lines and is much more readable
<Ropeney>
nice :D
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* pontiki_
waves o/
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<Radar>
hey pontiki
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<pontiki>
hi Radar
<pontiki>
baby time?
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<Radar>
yes :) She was born on the 4th and I was on leave until this Sunday
<Radar>
Doing well now that we've got her on a combo of formula + milk. Sleeping a lot better.
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<pontiki>
nice :)
<pontiki>
this is your first, yest?
<pontiki>
yes*
<Radar>
yeah it is :)
<pontiki>
super congrats :)
<adam12>
Radar: Congrats. I was wondering where you'd been
<adam12>
We had a heck of a time with feeding+latching.
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<adam12>
Then all of a sudden, everything was fine.
<pontiki>
my eldest never caught on; but she's 29 and healthy, so it all works out :)
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<Ropeney>
jakewow, a class variable is shared across all instances of the class; a instance variable belongs to that instance of the class
<jakewow>
Ropey -- thanks, but I'm referring to a "class-level instance variable" instead of an "instance variable"
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<Ropeney>
@@ is a class variable
<Ropeney>
oh I see
<Ropeney>
I'm pretty sure @@ is whats commonly called static variables elsewhere
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<Ropeney>
and @ is your class level instance variables
<tobiasvl>
Ropeney: MyClass.variable is an instance variable that's a member of the Class instance – ie. a class variable. @variable is an instance variable.
<Ropeney>
yes
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<tobiasvl>
jakewow: @@variables – don't use them. they don't work the way you think.
<Ropeney>
tobiasvl, hows that different to what I said?
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<tobiasvl>
Ropeney: well you called @variable a "class level instance variable" – maybe that's right, but I don't understand what you mean by that ;(
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<tobiasvl>
I'd think that was just MyClass.variable, usually called a "class instance variable".
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<Ropeney>
or instance variable
<tobiasvl>
sorry, no, it's MyClass.@variable that's called class instance variables.
<tobiasvl>
I even confuse myself.
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<konsolebox>
MyClass.variable is not an instance variable. it's a method. Instance variables are also not bound to any class or subclasses, but just to any object. There's no such thing as inheritance by subclasses.
<konsolebox>
Saying class-level instance variable is misleaading
<jakewow>
tobiasvl -- do you have any reading that points out the pitfalls of @@ ?
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<jakewow>
Is there a difference between calling self.methodName() from inside the class, as opposed to omitting self. ?
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<Burgestrand>
jakewow Yes!
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<Burgestrand>
jakewow Subtly, but yes. Private methods can't be called with an explicit self.
<konsolebox>
jakewow: it's an explicit "external" call to the public method of self. it won't work if methodName is private or protected.
<Burgestrand>
konsolebox Protected works just fine!
<konsolebox>
Burgestrand: really?
<Burgestrand>
konsolebox Really really!
<jakewow>
oh wow
<konsolebox>
well i haven't tried that so i just presumed. that's counter-intuitive.
<jakewow>
is there any advantage of doing self. ?
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<Burgestrand>
jakewow Sometimes you have to, if you want to call a setter for example, i.e. `self.something = true`, otherwise you just assign a local variable with `something = true`.
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<Burgestrand>
konsolebox It's because protected methods can be called by other instances of the same class, so they can't disallow explicit self.
<Burgestrand>
jakewow In this case, we circumvent the restriction by doing `instance_exec` on Cow, to allow us calling `cat.sound`.
<Burgestrand>
However, if we try to flat out call `cat.sound`, then we get an error because we're not in the right context.
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<konsolebox>
still doesn't make sense why protected methods are allowed to be called externally as long as the instance is of the same class or subclass, but private is not. the behavior is a little special in the case of protected methods.
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<konsolebox>
it's like there's a "friend" property somewhere for the case of classes calling/declaring protected methods.
<Burgestrand>
konsolebox Why would we otherwise have both private and protected?
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<konsolebox>
Burgestrand: to keep it private for the class. protected to keep it private along the inheritance tree.
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<Burgestrand>
konsolebox I might be misinterpreting you, but that's not the difference. Private methods can be accessed in subclasses.
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<konsolebox>
Burgestrand: so it's actually working like what a protected method should be? allowed to be accessed by subclasses?
<Burgestrand>
(as long as you don't give it an explicit sender)
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<Burgestrand>
konsolebox I'm not sure what reference you're using when you say what it _should_ be, but here's an example of what I'm talking about: https://eval.in/650655
<Burgestrand>
konsolebox I do agree that the sharing-behavior of protected methods is a rather strange exposure to friends of the implementation class, frankly I haven't used that particular flexibility often (if at all)
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: A "class instance variable" is just like any regular instance variable. Remember that even classes are objects, as such they
<dminuoso>
have instance variables.
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: So "class instance variables" are just plain instance variables and behave as such. But class variables behave special as they are accessible through inheritance.
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<jakewow>
whats the main difference between static variables and class instance variables
<dminuoso>
jakewow: Ruby has no notion of static variables.
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: Also be very careful with the word "static" as especially in C/C++ the meaning of the word is very overloaded with so many meanings.
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<Burgestrand>
Haha. Static. Overloaded.
<jakewow>
dminuoso -- then what are @@variables /
<jakewow>
dminuoso -- then what are @@variables ?
<dminuoso>
jakewow: Those are called class variables.
<jakewow>
okay, sorry about that
<jakewow>
what are the difference between class variables, and class instance variables
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: So when you create a class like this: Foo = Class.new
<dminuoso>
jakewow: Then "Foo" is just an object alright?
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: This is no different from str = String.new
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: an instance variable now belongs to Foo or str.
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<jakewow>
I'm familiar with instance variables
<dminuoso>
jakewow: Now since Foo also happens to be a class, it has a special set of variables that are not only accessible to Foo itself, but also any Derived classes.
<jakewow>
but I think "class instance variable" and "instance variable" are different
<dminuoso>
jakewow: No.
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: They are exactly the same when you consider that classes are objects too.
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<jakewow>
yes, in that context -- but in practical terms
<jakewow>
the function of the variables
<jakewow>
how they are used
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: even in practical terms they are the same too. an instance variable is just "state"
<dminuoso>
specific to the instance of whatever it is.
<dminuoso>
konsolebox: This is what protected is for really. A base class defines some interface for a derived to use. It would be inappropriate for MyWorker to directly access @age, even if it could.
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<konsolebox>
Burgestrand: sorry about earlier. i got dc'd. so it turns out 'private' is more about defining a method without a responder isn't it?
<dminuoso>
konsolebox: no, private is about hiding things from both the outside world and derived classes.
<jakewow>
Why use a class instance variable over a @@variable
<jakewow>
and vice-versa
<dminuoso>
jakewow: because it does not pollute inheritance chains.
<Burgestrand>
dminuoso Not really, subclasses can still call private methods of their parents.
<dminuoso>
jakewow: a derived has no access to peaking into a base classes internals.
<konsolebox>
dminuoso: but derived classes can access private methods
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<Burgestrand>
konsolebox But yes, in short, private means more or less "no explicit receiver", i.e. <receiver>.<private method> is a no-go, no matter who that receiver is.
<konsolebox>
it's just misleading if you try to copy the concept with C++
<Burgestrand>
konsolebox (unless you start going funny with `<receiver>.send(<private method>)`
<dminuoso>
Gosh I just fell into the same trap konsolebox. :P
<konsolebox>
Burgestrand: yeah
<jakewow>
dminuoso: that's the answer I'm looking for, thank you. Can you elaborate a bit?
<jakewow>
how does it not pollute inheritance chains?
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<apeiros>
>> class X; @@z = 1; def self.z; @@z; end; end; class Y < X; @@z = 2; end; Y.z # jakewow this is a common issue with @@cvars
<Burgestrand>
jakewow Like apeiros shows, you typically don't want children of a class to manipulate data that belongs to their parent!
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<apeiros>
another issue with @@cvars is understand when and why they're shared. consider that all classes inherit from Object, and @@cvars are shared through inheritance - why don't all classes then share all @@cvars? once you know the answer to that, you see why and how @@cvars are more problematic than you might think.
<dminuoso>
jakewow: In fact if you can help it, you should avoid having children even know (i.e. read) instance variables of a base. Let them use private accessors accessors instead.
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<dminuoso>
jakewow: My example is a bit bad in that respect.
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<jakewow>
so the problem is that the subclass can override parent class` @@cvars ?
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<jakewow>
dminuoso: when would you ever use @@cvars then?
<jakewow>
>> `ls`;
<dminuoso>
jakewow: I would not.
<jakewow>
>> puts "hi";
<jakewow>
how do I get the bot to execute ruby?
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<jakewow>
>> class X; @@z = 1; def self.z; @@z; end; end; class Y < X; @@z = 2; end; Y.z # jakewow this is a common issue with @@cvars
<Burgestrand>
Ah, I was about to say apeiros broke it
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<apeiros>
jakewow: subclasses, instances of subclasses etc. overriding is *one* of the problems. another important problem (as said above) is the way ruby decides which classes share an @cvar.
<apeiros>
Burgestrand: yes, I intentionally broke it for unregistered users :)
<Burgestrand>
On another note, we had an actual gem miner join the ruby meetup yesterday. As in jewelry, gold and diamonds miner.
<Burgestrand>
It was interesting, they thought we were doing a meetup for managing and finding jewels. They stayed a long while though, appeared to have a good time despite not being interested in ruby as a language!
<dminuoso>
Did you rob him?
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<Burgestrand>
Only of time, luckily!
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<geezus>
hello friends
<harfangk>
hi friend
<geezus>
heeyyyyy
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<geezus>
whats everyyonnne doooiin
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<dminuoso>
Usual stuff. Waiting for people to ask silly questions and then leave.
<fbt>
He just needed some love. You heartless bastards!
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<fbt>
Just to say something relevant: I think I both like and dislike ruby a lot. It's powerful and pretty easy to get into, but the number of ways you can do every single thing is highly disorienting.
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<dminuoso>
fbt: Welcome to computing.
<dminuoso>
If only Ruby had strong typing
* dminuoso
*coughs* crystal *coughs
<fbt>
Someday I will write a language. It will be perfect!
<fbt>
(no it will not)
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<dminuoso>
fbt: It's fairly easy if you use Truffle.
<fbt>
Yeah I know.
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<chrisseaton>
Ruby does have strong typing in most regards, it just doesn't have static typing
<chrisseaton>
I don't think Crystal's typing is any stronger than Ruby's
<apeiros>
chrisseaton: hm, in which regards is ruby's typing not strong?
<fbt>
It can't lift a car
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<dminuoso>
chrisseaton: Do you consider duck typing to be a form of strong typing?
<apeiros>
>> class Car; def lift; "car is lifted"; end; end; Car.new.lift # yes, it can
<chrisseaton>
apeiros: no I'm saying Ruby's typing is strong
* apeiros
wonders whether that will end in a discussion about classes vs. types
<chrisseaton>
Typing can be both very dynamic but also strong
<apeiros>
chrisseaton: I'm curious about what you were thinking when you said "in most regards"
<chrisseaton>
Sometimes values are autoconverted
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<fbt>
The world seems to move away from static typing. Slowly.
<apeiros>
chrisseaton: you mean by the methods? such as numerics #coerce?
* dminuoso
also wonders whether chrisseaton has "truffle" set up as a highlight keyword
<chrisseaton>
But Ruby is pretty strong in that it won't autoconvert to a string in most cases
<apeiros>
fbt: I see both trends simultaneously. but in static typing, I see a trend to inference support.
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<fbt>
Ah, yes, I was going to mention Go :)
<fbt>
i := 3
<apeiros>
chrisseaton: ok, I think I see what you mean.
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<dminuoso>
chrisseaton: But then again compared to you I'm not really equipped to argue about language paradigms. :-)
<fbt>
Good lick guessing which of the 100500 integer types that ends up being
<apeiros>
tbh, I think ruby performs too much argument normalization. IMO it should be more up to the user.
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<chrisseaton>
apeiros: yes strong vs weak is about conversion
<fbt>
luck*
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<flughafen_>
I'm using capybara/phantomjs/cucumber, is there an easy way/plugin to run this on a remote machine?
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<apeiros>
chrisseaton: hm, interesting. that's not how I "thought modelled" weak vs. strong typing. but I think you're right.
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<dminuoso>
flughafen_: You mean with something like selenium?
<flughafen_>
dminuoso: i'm not running selenium i'm running phantomjs
<dminuoso>
Ah
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<flughafen_>
dminuoso: like run the commands against a remote vm
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<ultrav1olet>
I can't understand how to get a list of ip addresses for a hostname
<ultrav1olet>
Does anyone know how it's done in Ruby?
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<harfangk>
i was listening to this podcast today and it had some interesting discussions about static vs dynamic typing. check it out: http://whyarecomputers.com/2
<apeiros>
ultrav1olet: how do you do it without ruby?
<ultrav1olet>
host google.com
<apeiros>
good, now figure out what services the "host" command uses and find a gem which provides access to that.
<apeiros>
alternatively: shell out to host :)
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<harfangk>
i like second option better
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<ultrav1olet>
apeiros: any standard gems?
<ultrav1olet>
I don't like the idea of using additional gems when every other programming lang has this feature
<dminuoso>
ultrav1olet: ^- its part of rubys standard library.
<ultrav1olet>
dminuoso: thanks, already found it
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<apeiros>
oh lol, and I even use that in my current project.
<ultrav1olet>
don't know why apeiros tried hard to mislead me
<apeiros>
FAIL
<dminuoso>
ultrav1olet: If you don't ask about how to do DNS in Ruby, it indicates that you don't know what you are doing in the first place.
<ultrav1olet>
I perfectly understand what I want
<dminuoso>
ultrav1olet: See, communication requires that the other does so too.
<dminuoso>
It's not about what you understand.
<ultrav1olet>
And my initial request was perfectly fine and it's still valid
<ultrav1olet>
nevermind
<geekbri>
Why don't you two be nice to each other.
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<apeiros>
ultrav1olet: and seems you found what you needed, despite me missing it. so it actually helped?
<ultrav1olet>
google helped
<ultrav1olet>
google: ruby ip addresses for a hostname
<ultrav1olet>
the first hit
<dminuoso>
ultrav1olet: Great. Next time google first? ;)
<apeiros>
in that case: why didn't you start with that?
<ultrav1olet>
My previous five queries or so returned irrelevant data
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<dminuoso>
ultrav1olet: See, if you had asked "how to resolve hostnames addresses to ip addresses" in either google or this channel, you wouldnt have this issue.
<dminuoso>
This is why correct terminology is important.
<dminuoso>
:-)
<ultrav1olet>
resolving hostname addresses to ip addresses is factually incorrect and doesn't make sense
<apeiros>
na, their question was fine IMO
<dminuoso>
ultrav1olet: I accidentally tossed in a superfluous addresses.
<dminuoso>
At any rate.
<ultrav1olet>
the absolute correct way (wrt DNS) will be to ask "how to get A records for a hostname"
<apeiros>
I showed them where to find the stdlib (correctly assuming it had DNS services, but sadly missing it when I looked), so they knew how to solve that question themselves.
<ultrav1olet>
that's technically correct
<ultrav1olet>
anyways case closed, thanks everyone
<apeiros>
if we want to nitpick, that's incomplete
<ultrav1olet>
nope
<ultrav1olet>
that's exact terminology
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<apeiros>
for one thing it only gives you ipv4 addresses
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<apeiros>
your original question being "ip addresses" comprises ipv6
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<ultrav1olet>
I'm content with the A records
<ultrav1olet>
AAAA is not my concern
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<ultrav1olet>
We have zero IPv6 enabled servers in our infrastructure at the moment
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<moeSizlak>
well gentlemen, i dont know if youre aware of this or not, but
<moeSizlak>
The security aspect of cyber is very, very tough
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<fbt>
Hmm. system() takes several arguments, but then doesn't run the command in a subshell
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<fbt>
Is Open3 the way to go?
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<fbt>
I want to safely run a system command and discard the output
<apeiros>
that's the point of passing multiple arguments - to bypass a subshell (and thus a number of security concerns)
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<fbt>
system() doesn't seem to have a way to discard the output :<
<apeiros>
system wouldn't discard the output either. it'd print it on your process' stdout/stderr
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<apeiros>
open3, yes, or popen. probably easier.
<apeiros>
spawn is the swiss army knife for subprocesses
* apeiros
pings dminuoso - you might want to show your chart :)
<fbt>
open3 also returns the exit code, which I also need :D
<fbt>
So seems like the tool for the job
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<fbt>
Ah. There's also $?
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<fbt>
$? is global, right?
<apeiros>
it pretends to be. it isn't really.
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<apeiros>
now I wonder where that documentation was about how which $-functions are scoped :-/
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<apeiros>
I'd assume that $? is a) a function and b) one which is thread-local ($1-$9 and friends are other examples of thread local C functions which look like global variables)
<dminuoso>
apeiros: Its not mine. I just stole it from SO.
<moeSizlak>
how do I tell sequel to use mysql's NOW() fuction when calling insert
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<apeiros>
?crosspost moeSizlak
<ruby[bot]>
moeSizlak: Please do not crosspost without at least telling so and mentioning provided suggestions and their outcome in all channels. Experience shows that people don't do either, and not doing so is considered rude.
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<fbt>
Ahem. Files that you load() have their own scope?
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<mrbobbytables>
Hey there all, my apologies if this is somewhat out of place — I’ve worked with ruby before in limited amounts, mostly serverspec/rake etc for testing with ansible/salt I haven’t actually written anything beyond that. I wrote a small gem that handles rendering of erb templates, and I’d appreciate any feedback in terms of general best practices, does
<mrbobbytables>
The readme itself is sparse, but I’d like to make sure I’m on the right track before I start documenting more and writing tests.
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<goeast>
Hello ! I am looking for a way to check if an integer is between 2 dates. I have done this (x.start_at..x.end_at) === Date.today.month. But the problem is that it doesn't work if I have something like this : (11..2) === Date.today.month since it doesn't understand what is a calendar year. Any Hint ?
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<apeiros>
how can an integer be between 2 dates? an integer isn't a date…
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<apeiros>
date.between?(*[date_a, date_b].sort)
<goeast>
I know but I don't want to use a date format because it is recurring each year
<goeast>
for example seasonality of a fruit
<apeiros>
date != date format
<goeast>
is from september to january every year so I am using only integer from 1 to 12
<apeiros>
you're severely misrepresenting your problem.
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<apeiros>
from what you say it seems your problem is "how do I test whether an integer is between two other integers"
<apeiros>
with the additional problem of you not knowing which of the two integers is bigger.
<apeiros>
anyhow, same solution. sort the integers, then compare.
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<goeast>
yes but month of january (1) is between december en february (12..2).
<goeast>
in this case it is not working
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<FernandoBasso>
https://rubygems.org/gems/unicode_utils Last update from 2012. Is there something else I should be looking at? (I know about rails active support, but I am concerned about plain ruby, not rails).
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<goeast>
Am I oblige to work with date ? Because it means that every year I need to reupdate my database.. That is not sustainable
<goeast>
with the correct date (month + year)
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<Biciato>
any possible solutions for this -> C:/RailsInstaller/Ruby2.2.0/lib/ruby/2.2.0/tk.rb:2066:in `_invoke': couldn't recognize data in image file "image.gif" (RuntimeError)
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<xentity1x>
Hi, I'm doing a ruby crash course for myself, and I have a newb question. Let's say I istantiate a class called Customer as cust1. Can I access the class attributes externally like cust1.cust_name?
<xentity1x>
I know you can do that in Python....
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<ciawal>
cust1.cust_name will call the method
<ciawal>
you want Customer.cust_name
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<ciawal>
that doesn't really make sense though
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<apeiros>
xentity1x: you can always query the class and go from there: cust1.class.class_attr
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<xentity1x>
ciawal, okay so you can only get methods that way not attributes?
<apeiros>
there are no attributes in ruby
<apeiros>
everything with a . is a method call.
<apeiros>
attr_* creates methods for you. it's "just" convenience.
<xentity1x>
aperious, what do you call a variable that lives inside a class, not an attribute?
<apeiros>
?tabnocl xentity1x
<ruby[bot]>
apeiros: I don't know anything about tabnocl
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<apeiros>
whoops
<apeiros>
?tabnick xentity1x
<ruby[bot]>
xentity1x: pro-tip - use tab completion for nicks. avoids typos in nicks.
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<apeiros>
xentity1x: you can't access variables except when you're in the proper scope. so you can never access a variable "from outside" without a method call.
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<apeiros>
and I'd call them variable, not attribute.
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<apeiros>
yw
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<nonnatus>
Just to add to what apeiros stated, it’s usually preferable use a class instance variable instead of a class variable proper. Might sound weird, but good to keep in mind.
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<apeiros>
yupp. avoid @@cvars and $gvars
<apeiros>
or rather: avoid defining them.
<apeiros>
using existing $globals is fine
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<nonnatus>
It looks like my question didn’t go through a minute ago for some reason (was having connection issues), so sorry if this is a repeat:
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<nonnatus>
Anyone around who would have some advice for validating URLs? Right now I’m using URI.parse, but it’s a bit too lenient (e.g. http://google is accepted).
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<apeiros>
nonnatus: not a repeat. it did indeed not get through.
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<nonnatus>
nonnatus: A HTTP HEAD request seems like overkill though in this case.
<nonnatus>
Thanks
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<apeiros>
you'd probably want to test the scheme for http/https. DNS lookup sadly is a bit expensive. you could test whether it's a domain with at least 2 levels.
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<nonnatus>
I am making sure the scheme is correct. I guess then the only other thing to do is check that uri.hostname has at least one dot.
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<nonnatus>
Just feels kludgy.
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<apeiros>
not necessarily a problem, just remember that ip addresses also include dots
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<apeiros>
spletnit
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<nonnatus>
apeiros: Thanks
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<apeiros>
nonnatus: you're welcome
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<apeiros>
is the split over? did we drown?
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<nonnatus>
Not done yet.
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<dminuoso>
a..b #=> ArgumentError: bad value for range
<dminuoso>
Ruby diagnostics at its best.
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<eam>
seems like a good message to me?
<dminuoso>
eam: Sure. Now let me tell you the cause.
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<dminuoso>
eam: my succ method was throwing an exception, which Range has silently caught, providing me with this internal error message with no stack trace.
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<dminuoso>
Still think it's a good message?
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<havenwood>
dminuoso: you think it succs?
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<eam>
hahaha
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<dminuoso>
It seems like it actually just catches NoMethodError, assuming it must mean there is no succ/<=>
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<dminuoso>
If you throw another exception, the range can get constructed, but it just does not work.
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<eam>
you'd think it'd use respond_to?
<dminuoso>
Without throwing errors. Wow.
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<apeiros>
ah yeah, origin of exception is an issue for reraising. had that too.
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<apeiros>
I mean in my own code, were I reraised an exception and got burned because while it was the same exception class, it wasn't from the immediate method, but something deeper nested.
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<dminuoso>
apeiros: If at the very least Ruby told me what kind of problem it had (i.e. "hey your succ succs")
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<apeiros>
sure, sure. I fully concur that that's a rather weak message :)
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<strongcode>
I am creating a web app (s1) and will need to store username/password credentials for an external service (s2). s1 will log in on my users behalf to s2 using the credentials they supply me with. What is the safest way to store their credentials? I was thinking of using envelope encryption with regularly rotated master keys from Amazons AWS, then storing the encrypted data key and user/pass pairs in my db instance. Can anyone think of a safer way? And no,
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<elomatreb>
strongcode: You got cut off there I think
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<baweaver>
What's S2?
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<baweaver>
because most (sane) sites have an authentication mechanism that makes this a non-issue
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<baweaver>
(ex: Sign in with %w(facebook github twitter google))
<dminuoso>
strongcode: The solution is called OAuth2.
<dminuoso>
All the big boys have it.
<baweaver>
also no sane person should ever input their password to your site
<strongcode>
dminuoso please read the last line
<baweaver>
it got cut off
<dminuoso>
strongcode: your last line ended with "And no,"
<baweaver>
you might want to read it.
<strongcode>
oh
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<strongcode>
shows on my client, weird
<strongcode>
last line: And no, oauth is not offered for s2, nor any token based login
<baweaver>
Do you control S2?
<dminuoso>
strongcode: Tell them to hire developers for more than $30,000 a year then.
<strongcode>
no
<baweaver>
Why do you need to auth against S2?
<strongcode>
to use the service on my customer's behalf - a la mint.com or similar
<strongcode>
i will provide an automation service
<strongcode>
my customers find immense value in this automation
<elomatreb>
Storing user credentials like that is incredibly dangerous
<dminuoso>
And no worries in you storing their credentials?
<baweaver>
....this sounds like it's a horrible idea
<dminuoso>
^--
<strongcode>
I appreciate the concern but would like to consider ways to approach the problem
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<strongcode>
or rather, for you to poke holes in my proposed solution
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<elomatreb>
baweaver: You'd be surprised. Here in Germany, we have a fairly popular service called "Sofortüberweisung", where you basically enter your onlinebanking credentials to let them pay for you
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<dminuoso>
elomatreb: Popularity does not make it any saner.
<elomatreb>
Of course not, but users don't care if the service is "valuable" enough
<dminuoso>
elomatreb: But hey, if you do not care that you give full access to your monetary assets, your financial history, payment history, liquidity, savings and what not to a third party...
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<dminuoso>
If some of us Germans would bother to think even a second about the implications, they would tell them to FO.
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<dminuoso>
strongcode: There cannot come any good in supporting what anyone here would consider a really terrible idea.
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<elomatreb>
strongcode: Having said how bad the idea is, maybe you could take a look at the regulations for storing credit card data
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<dminuoso>
strongcode: You shouldn't remember, that no matter how "serious the encryption" - your webserver needs access to those data. To the webserver the data are unecrypted, thus they are effectively in plain text.
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<strongcode>
yes elomatreb that is why I initially looked at Amazon KMS as a solution - they are PCI DSS compliant
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<dminuoso>
strongcode: Is your webserver PCI DSS compliant?
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<strongcode>
no
<dminuoso>
strongcode: Then you're back at square one.
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<strongcode>
surely there must be a safe way to go about this?
<dminuoso>
strongcode: The safe way is to not have the data in the first place. And the solution is called delegated authorization.
<dminuoso>
OAuth and OAuth2 tackle this.
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<strongcode>
I understand that dminuoso but that is not an option with this service
<strongcode>
trust me I would love to defer to oauth
<elomatreb>
... then there is no safe option
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<dminuoso>
strongcode: The reason OAuth/2 exist is because without delegated authorization, it is inherently unsafe.
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<strongcode>
sorry, large lag spike there. Assume someone goes forward with this implementation. What can that person do to reduce risk as much as possible?
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<dminuoso>
strongcode: Fire you.
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<strongcode>
shouldn't have expected much more from Freenode I guess
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<dminuoso>
strongcode: Go post it on stackoverflow. Be sure to give me a link - I need some entertainment tonight.
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<miqlas-H>
Hi Guys!
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<miqlas-H>
I try to build ruby in chroot, but in the middle of the compiling it complains about the miniruby.so is missing, or something like it. Sorry i don't remember correctly, but i'll provide later te correct error message, but i'm compiling a big thing right now, so it isn1t a great idea to start a new compiling now.
<miqlas-H>
Any idea, what am i doing wrong? It compiles fine outside of chroot.
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<miqlas-H>
it have all the deps in chroot, ofc.
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<dminuoso>
miqlas-H: need a proper error log.
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<dminuoso>
miqlas-H: An error description "or something like it" sucks a lot.
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<miqlas-H>
I know, let me this compiling finish somehow.
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<xentity1x>
Whats' the purpose of general delimited strings?
<havenwood>
zerowaitstate: Alternatively, ruby-install works well with Debian/Ubuntu, etc, if you want to install system-wide in /usr/local/ with the latest version like: sudo ruby-install --latest --system ruby
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<rose_>
How do I get all links inside a div whit Mechanize?
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<rose_>
I know that page.links give me an list of all links in the page, but how can I get only links from some DIV?
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<havenwood>
rose_: You could use a CSS selector to limit to the part of the page you want to look, then search for <a> tags, for example: ruby -rmechanize -e "puts Mechanize.new.get('http://example.com').css('body > div').css('a')"
<havenwood>
rose_: i'm not sure about a more elegant way or what links that might miss
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<baweaver>
Might want to include href in there
<baweaver>
otherwise you could pick up on name tags
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<rose_>
havenwood, and how can I do the same knowing the class of the div?
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<havenwood>
rose_: are you familiar with XPath or CSS selectors?
<mg^>
I mean, you could stare at a wall of terminal text, but why?
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<toni>
Alright..lol thanks...
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<havenwood>
toni: There's `ri` that you can use from the terminal directly or `help` in irb or `ri` and `show-doc` in pry.
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<mg^>
toni: on that note, consider installing pry if you haven't already. It's a step beyond IRB in utility.
<havenwood>
?pry toni
<ruby[bot]>
toni: Pry, the better IRB, provides easy object inspection `ls`, `history`, viewing docs `?`, viewing source `$`, syntax highlighting and other features (see `help` for more). Put `binding.pry` in your source code for easy debugging. Install Pry (https://pryrepl.org/): gem install pry pry-doc
<toni>
okay @mg^ Im gonna try installing pry asap.
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<_sfiguser>
hello guys.. can somebody suggest a good widget toolkit to make GUI apps in ruby ?
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<graft>
hey all, just started playing around with Rack, and it seems pretty straightforward
<graft>
one thing i am confused about is the call() chain and the Rack::Request object
<graft>
so call(env) receives an env hash, which you can wrap in a request = Rack::Request.new(env)
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<graft>
but if my call method goes on to call another piece of Rack middleware, i'm supposed to pass in env, not request
<graft>
so does every piece of Rack middleware create its own Rack::Request to wrap env?
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<transhuman>
hi ruby is totally foreign to me trying to get youtube-multiple-dl to work its giving me the following error http://paste.debian.net/842859/ (not I have tried gemrat delayed_job_active_record
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<havenwood>
transhuman: what's "gemrat"? What are you running to get this error? show your code?