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<sid05>
hey anybody out there? Trying to debug my strack trace... What does it mean if it says "block in <method_name>" e.g. /var/lib/jenkins/jobs/Rails-Develop/workspace/vendor/bundle/ruby/2.1.0/gems/sequel-4.3.0/lib/sequel/database/connecting.rb:182:in `block in each_server'
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<daves12222>
?help
<daves12222>
--command
<apeiros>
daves12222: what do you need?
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<daves12222>
trying to figure out why i'm only getting ppl entering and leaving but _NO_ talk -sigh
<apeiros>
because there was no talk?
<daves12222>
you & rippa are the only ones i've spoken to thus far
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<rippa>
probably no one knows how to help you
<rippa>
or just not much people actually online
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<apeiros>
I don't use visual ruby, so can't help with that.
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<daves12222>
rapeiros - know of anyother chat room i could go to?
<daves12222>
oppps for this help??
<apeiros>
sorry, I don't. would have mentioned otherwise.
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<daves12222>
anyone any ideas?? - tried joining gnome glade (whatever but never got a verifing email reply to activate account, so now I dead in the water
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<daves12222>
each time since i try i get nothing, even if i try to enter my email addy and click forgot password
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<rippa>
not many people do GUI in ruby
<rippa>
mainly web stuffs
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<daves12222>
chrs rippa, i'm trying to buck the trend :) - spot ya.....
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<[spoiler]>
Is anyone perhaps interested in a Ruby dev job in Hamburg, Germany? :) I am not hiring, but I was a candidate for the role, but we didn't move forward with it in the end. Here's more info about the job: http://www.epages.com/en/career/?jh=3r12t9pp853d18z17601z39yc7tzgqs
<[spoiler]>
Side note: I see they've updated the job listing and the role name. It was just "RoR developer" previously
<[spoiler]>
They also added PHP. Yikes.
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<[spoiler]>
rippa: I am a Ruby dev who does almost no web stuffs in Ruby :D
<[spoiler]>
Well, I do, actually. However, rarely
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<mib_mib>
does anyone have experience bundling ruby as a cross-platform binary ?
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<bascht>
mib_mib: Cross-Platform as in »multiple OS'es«?
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<Cork>
is there a way to do "send arguments to function if it accepts then else ignore them"?
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<Cork>
i'm generically calling a function in a class i'm passed and the class might not want to use the arguments i send so it doesn't define any parameters
<imightbestupid12>
when i don't do the to_s override it shows me the object id, but when i override to_s it shows me whatever is returned from the to_s method i defined in my class
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<imightbestupid12>
what is the magic behind that?
<apeiros>
the magic behind that is that puts calls to_s
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<fbt>
So many implicit things in ruby
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<fbt>
:D
<fbt>
It's like I'm writing shell all over again!
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<imightbestupid12>
oh and if to_s isn't defined it prints out the Player class's object id because it's the last thing that's returned?
<apeiros>
no
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<imightbestupid12>
#<Player:0x005564968f7848>
<apeiros>
because Player inherits from Object, and Object#to_s returns that
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<imightbestupid12>
oh, thank you so much!
<apeiros>
if to_s is *truly* not defined and it isn't already a String, puts will raise.
<apeiros>
>> puts BasicObject.new
<ruby[bot]>
apeiros: # => undefined method `to_s' for #<BasicObject:0x4147dc54> (NoMethodError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/653064)
<ruby[bot]>
Jakey3: Please add more context to your question, what are you doing, why are you doing it, which libraries are involved. Post some code to gist if it clarifies your question.
<Jakey3>
so they are one statement
<apeiros>
why did I even ask…
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<hanmac>
Jakey3: we want to know where the "package" method come from ... without we might not help you that much
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<atmosx>
I see rubocop enforces 10-lines per method, is that sane? I mean aren't 10 lines per method a little low? Is it a good practice to follow this policy?
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<dminuoso>
atmosx: No. Consider this to be a code smell indicator.
<dminuoso>
atmosx: It usually means you have bad code design. Splitting your methods becuase Rubycop thinks they are too long is usually a terrible idea.
<apeiros>
it is good practice to have small, focused methods. however, 10 lines is IMO not sane.
<dminuoso>
apeiros: 10 lines is far too long indeed.
<Papierkorb>
atmosx: I think I left it at 10 lines too, I think it's reasonable
<apeiros>
I prefer to work with thresholds
<Papierkorb>
But rubocop isn't perfect
<apeiros>
as in: 60% <10 LoC, 30% <30 LoC, rest <100 LoC (numbers pulled from thin air)
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<dminuoso>
atmosx: So treat it as a code smell indicator. If you see a 15 line methods that is long because you split a single method call across 5 lines for readability, then its fine. If you realize its clean and only solvable in 15 lines? Then its fine.
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<Papierkorb>
it flips its shit for some methods which really just build a big hash
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<dminuoso>
atmosx: if you have some 30 lines - rethink the design (dont just mindlessly split it into methods)
<apeiros>
method classes - something which still makes me feel uneasy
<apeiros>
(a class which is basically one method, but that method split into smaller methods to facilitate readability)
<Papierkorb>
apeiros: IMO, that's totally bonkers. I don't do OOP because I think in methods, but because I think of stuff as objects.
<dminuoso>
apeiros: Functions should not help with readability, but structure your code into components.
<atmosx>
dminuoso: yes I got it, I am scraping some data, and then looping through it multiple times to extract some other data, this could/should be done in 1-go. I need to figure out how, this was my first take which worked as expected and I didn't bother optimizing it, until now.
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<Papierkorb>
atmosx: If you have something like a loop, easiest refactor step is to move the loop body into its own method. /Most/ of the time this works out just fine.
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<nobitanobi>
hello!
<apeiros>
dminuoso: I disagree. there's a point to be made to replace `if foo && bar && baz && whatever then …` with `if user_has_change_privileges? then`
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<apeiros>
methods/functions can make it a lot easier to understand (through naming) what's going on
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<dminuoso>
apeiros: Does this serve to maintain an internal interface or facilitate reusability?
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<apeiros>
can happen in both, but I guess your argument is that it's superfluous internally. and IMO it can be valuable internally too.
<dminuoso>
If not, I would not extract it out for the sheer code readability. A comment will do just as nicely.
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<nobitanobi>
I have found a regex defined as: https://gist.github.com/novito/783878b28e414fcb03da7a0ecfebd0e3#file-email_regex-rb-L17 - when I do `email_regex.encoding` I get "#<Encoding:ASCII-8BIT>" - So, if I try to match UTF-8 against it, I get "Encoding::CompatibilityError: incompatible encoding regexp match (ASCII-8BIT regexp with UTF-8 string)" - is there any workaround for the regex to just return not match instead of rai
<nobitanobi>
sing an exception?
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<apeiros>
"what does this do" comments are IMO admitting defeat.
<Papierkorb>
apeiros: This one-method-one-class thing looked to me always as counter movement against the huge models often found in Rails apps. I interpret is as overreaction over poor method architecture beforehand
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<apeiros>
if I have to document *what* my code does (within code), I think again how I can write it so it becomes clear from the code itself. and the main tools are: assign intermediate results to variables (give the result a name), split out parts into smaller methods
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<apeiros>
Papierkorb: by one-method-one-class you mean one-external-method-one-class, right?
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<Papierkorb>
apeiros: yes
<apeiros>
Papierkorb: things like job queue workers are just that
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<apeiros>
the most common case for those things are "service" classes (or "workflow" or "operation" whatever you want to call them)
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<apeiros>
nobitanobi: email.b
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<Papierkorb>
apeiros: I think of those differently. I try to make a sharp distinction between workin with data (=> own class) or working directly on the data. A job takes a user and sends an email to the users email address, so it works with the data. But if the user changes their password, I'd put that #change_password method into the users model, cause now I'm working directly on the data. If that makes any sense ~
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<nobitanobi>
apeiros: thank you!
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<nobitanobi>
apeiros: I don't see the `.b` in the String docs
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<nobitanobi>
apeiros: I am wondering one thing with that approach tho. Wouldn't it cause false positives, where we get an input for utf8 and it says it's an email (because of the force encoding to ASCII-8bit), but is not/
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<apeiros>
no, you wouldn't
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<apeiros>
the older email spec is ascii only. the part in utf-8 which is ascii won't change
<apeiros>
the newer email spec only adds utf-8 beyond ascii. and if the regex is binary to test that, it won't give you a false positive either
<apeiros>
the machine itself doesn't care about the encoding btw.
<apeiros>
the encoding is for us humans
<nobitanobi>
I was wrongly assuming that if we had, for example, an email like "ç@example.com".b, it would transform it to "c@example.com"
<nobitanobi>
and then it would return true
<apeiros>
no. .b does not translate anything.
<nobitanobi>
but I just wrote a quick test to prove myself wrong
<apeiros>
.b only changes the encoding flag.
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<apeiros>
the binary data in the string remains the same.
<nobitanobi>
perfect, thanks apeiros
<Jakey3>
how do i install a specific version of ruby with rvm
<Jakey3>
?
<apeiros>
i.e. "ç".bytes == "ç".b.bytes
<apeiros>
Jakey3: `rvm help install`
<nobitanobi>
rvm install 1.9.3
<nobitanobi>
or whatever version you want @Jakey3
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<nobitanobi>
apeiros: that's interesting - thank you
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<nobitanobi>
I find encoding hard to follow sometimes
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<nobitanobi>
like, why would the regex be in ASCII-8bit if it's defined in a utf8 file?
<apeiros>
nobitanobi: if that's news to you, then I strongly recommend on spending an hour or two learning about encoding basics.
<nobitanobi>
yes, I will do that.
<apeiros>
because a utf-8 regex can't test whether the data is valid utf-8
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<apeiros>
additionally it's a lot easier to translate the email bnf into a binary regex
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<nobitanobi>
ah interesting
<nobitanobi>
so whatever you put in the regex will define its encoding
<nobitanobi>
apeiros: any readings you suggest to step up my encoding game?
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<apeiros>
no
<apeiros>
not what you put in the regex
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<apeiros>
>> /ä/n
<ruby[bot]>
apeiros: # => /tmp/execpad-69388150e175/source-69388150e175:2: regexp encoding option 'n' differs from source enco ...check link for more (https://eval.in/653145)
<nobitanobi>
I am going to try to play around on changing the regex to be utf-8 instead of forcing the string to be ascii-8bit, just for the sake of understanding how it works
<apeiros>
arbitrary binary data is not valid in a utf-8 regex
<Guest49496>
Hello, I am curious about something in Ruby, if i iterate over a hash using |key, value| and in that loop I add elements to it (new key-value) pairs, will the initial loop iterate over these new elements as well?
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<apeiros>
Guest49496: try adding a key while iterating over the hash. tell me what happens.
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<apeiros>
nobitanobi: I think there's also an article by joel(?) on software - what every programmer must know about encodings (or similar)
<nobitanobi>
oh yeah!
<nobitanobi>
I read that some time ago
<nobitanobi>
will re-read
<nobitanobi>
thanks
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<apeiros>
feedback on my article is welcome btw.
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<nobitanobi>
I will read this weekend and add comments if needed
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<Garo_>
thanks!
<Garo_>
had hard time trying to google that out
<apeiros>
oh, that's even on BasicObject
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<chris2>
Emmanuel_Chanel: i think the " around the date in SEARCH SINCE are wrong
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
ok.
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
chris2: Looks it works. And I could change the password before someone intruded.
<chris2>
:)
<chris2>
at least it was long and random ;)
<Emmanuel_Chanel>
Yeah.
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<LyndsySimon>
Is there a rails-specific IRC channel?
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<go|dfish>
LyndsySimon: #RubyOnRails
<LyndsySimon>
tyvm
<chris2>
!rails
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<chris2>
hm.
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<[k->
you should use ? instead of !
<chris2>
?rails
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<ruby[bot]>
Please join #RubyOnRails for Rails questions. You need to be identified with NickServ, see /msg NickServ HELP
<chris2>
ah yes
<chris2>
thanks
<apeiros>
factoids = ?
<apeiros>
commands = !
<apeiros>
avoids conflicts
<apeiros>
pondering a "command missing" to delegate to factoids :D
<[k->
!rails hypothetically transports you to #rubyonrails
<apeiros>
we can only do the /part for you, the /join we can't :)
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
chris2: Thanks for your help.
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<chris2>
np
<chris2>
i wish i knew less about imap :P
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<Mrgoose>
Any ideas on how i can fix this error.
<Mrgoose>
Sequel::AdapterNotFound: LoadError: libmysqlclient.so.18: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory - /home/kclark/repos/csp/aaa/vendor/ruby/2.2.0/gems/mysql2-0.4.2-x86_64-linux/lib/mysql2/mysql2.so
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<thatsnotjack>
Mrgoose: You need to either install libmysqlclient on your system, or make it visible if it's already there. Are you familiar with managing system libs?
<Mrgoose>
not really. I did install "sudo apt-get install libmysqlclient-dev libmysqld-dev
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<thatsnotjack>
Ah I'm glad you're on linux, I have no idea how to do it on OSX :) So, those are the development libraries, which contain headers for compiling against those libraries. In this case, Ruby is looking for a library that's already compiled, so the dev libs won't do us any good. Debian convention is for the regular lib to be named the same as the dev, just minus the -dev suffix, so sudo apt-get install
<thatsnotjack>
libmysqlclient should do the trick in this case
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<Mrgoose>
Still no luck there libmysqlclient isn't a package. i did apt-get install mysql-client though
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<Mrgoose>
still the same libmysqlclient.so.18 error
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<Mrgoose>
although
<thatsnotjack>
mysql-client is likely just the command line client, rather than the system lib. Sometimes system libs have version suffixes in the repos, so I'm guessing that's the case here. Try an `apt-cace search libmysql` to list libs that might match
<Mrgoose>
This command shows /sbin/ldconfig -p | grep mysql | cut -d\> -f2
<Mrgoose>
these two /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmysqlclient.so.20 and /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libmysqlclient.so
<Mrgoose>
doesn't show a .so.18
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<thatsnotjack>
That command is listing the system libs that you have, isolating any line with mysql on it, and then printing out only the file portion. Basically that's just telling you if the lib is present on your system. So now we've got a pretty good hint that it's not there :)
<thatsnotjack>
try an `apt-cache search libmysqlclient` and see if that surfaces something like `libmysqclient18`
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<Papierkorb>
apeiros: Your snippet gives true for me in a pry session
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<thatsnotjack>
apeiros: cool. Glad we found peak elegance
<thatsnotjack>
Papierkorb: Huh, which ruby version?
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<Papierkorb>
thatsnotjack: MRI 2.3.1
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<thatsnotjack>
What happens if you try `ruby -e 'puts ObjectSpace.each_object.include?(nil)'`
<Papierkorb>
already tried, it gives false
<thatsnotjack>
Woah, interesting
<Papierkorb>
and no, assigning nil to a variable before does not change that false to a true
<thatsnotjack>
My understanding is that `nil` is never instantiated, so I'm not sure how it could wind up in the ObjectSpace
<thatsnotjack>
but, pry does some truly magical things so I suppose it's not too suprising that it would alter that behavior
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<thatsnotjack>
Also I just realized my solution probably breaks on singleton objects like an int or symbol. But it's okay because elegance > correctness
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<apeiros>
it'd also break on objects which badly implement == :)
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<apeiros>
and I'm pretty sure that's what happens in pry. it has an object in ObjectSpace which claims == nil
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<Papierkorb>
What's wrong with class Object; def not_nil?; true; end; end class NilClass; def not_nil?; false; end; end ?
<apeiros>
it's simply not a fashionable implementation
<apeiros>
;-)
<Velizar>
bool = thing.method1&.method2? == false <---- RubyMine warns me about this code with "Expression can be simplified". It returns false if method2? returned true or if the expression was nil; it returns true if method2? was false. That's not possible to simplify and RubyMine is wrong - am I correct?
<dunpeal>
havenwood: I probably don't, just curious.
<apeiros>
Velizar: !expr
<Velizar>
!expr
<thatsnotjack>
`ObjectSpace.each_object.any? {|o| o.object_id == obj.object_id }` should correct that behavior
<apeiros>
though, it's not a universally correct simplification
<Velizar>
I thought that was a bot command
<apeiros>
thatsnotjack: .equal?
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<ggerman>
Hello, I'm using minitest and have problem for ser session variable
<ggerman>
for can test methods where I validate this value
<ggerman>
Some idea?
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<thatsnotjack>
Can you share the code you're working with?
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<Camusensei>
Hello guys. How can I select the first/only matching element in a list of list. I'm currently doing list=[[0,1],[4,5]]; needle=4; list.select{|k,v|k==needle}.map{|k,v|v} # returns [5]
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<apeiros>
Camusensei: find instead of select
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<Camusensei>
strange, I've got that array like list i mentionned earlier but it's now saying NoMethodError: undefined method `to_h' for #<Array:0x000000070ad730>
<thatsnotjack>
Check that issue out to see if your version of rails is affected. It looks like there's a related PR but I'm not sure what version it got shipped in
<Camusensei>
list.map{|k|k.size}.uniq reports [2] though :/
<thatsnotjack>
If your version is affected, ask your BE team to throw a `|| []` in there and be careful in the future to ensure that behavior is present on other endpoints, or to upgrade rails to a non-affected version
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<dmarr>
thatsnotjack: seems like 4.2 would be safe
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<dmarr>
that regression fix looks like it landed in 4.0.4
<dmarr>
thanks for helping out with that
<thatsnotjack>
hmm, the behavior you're experiencing still has me puzzled then, but the solution should still work
<Camusensei>
alright, to_h doesn't work because my list is of this form: [[0,""],[1,""]] :/
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<thatsnotjack>
baweaver: nah I forgot I keep putting it off since I'm not here much
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<baweaver>
Most clients will automatically do it for you
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<baweaver>
The bot won't reply to people who don't auth. Prevents some measure of abuse.
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<Camusensei>
thank you very much thatsnotjack, I was able to use apeiros's code to bypass the to_h feature missing in ruby 1.9 :)
<thatsnotjack>
I'm not on freenode much so I just never bothered
<thatsnotjack>
Camusensei: If you want the O(1) lookup still you can use the Hash[arr] form mentioned above, otherwise, apeiros's solution is just fine
<baweaver>
Camusensei: but seriously, upgrade if possible
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<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: Sorry hold on, I'm missing something going on here. The `|| []` I mentioned isn't actually going to help since the `.fetch` should default to a `[]`
<baweaver>
2.0.x and lower are end of life and are a security risk
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<Camusensei>
I'll push for an upgrade then
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<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: Can you verify that the exception raised by the `.map` call occurs on line #2 in `gistfile1.txt`
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<imightbestupid12>
my array is returning the number instead of the value, what can i do to insert the value to a new iarray?
<Camusensei>
I'm using Time.now in a function called hundreds of times. Is it better for me to have it as a global variable instead?
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<imightbestupid12>
last lines starting from total.times.do
<Camusensei>
thank you for those 27 lines of code, but I was asking for one example. one line...
<imightbestupid12>
i said last lines
<dmarr>
thatsnotjack: yes line 2
<imightbestupid12>
starting from total.times.do
<thatsnotjack>
Camusensei: Time.now is cheap, and assigning it to a global var might introduce a timing error since you'll be comparing things to a time further and further in the past as you loop
<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: Thanks, I'm still not sure how a nil is getting in there I'll have another look in one second
<Camusensei>
thatsnotjack: I'm not concerned about errors as I only care about days ^^ but if you tell me it's cheap then I will not introduce a global variable, thank you :)
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<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: But also you might just want to ask your BE team to fix it. If they're 500ing on bad params the fault is on their end even if you do have your params wrong somehow
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<baweaver>
Camusensei: don't use globals if you can help it.
<abernstein>
baweaver remember that ruby stuff you helped me with yesterday? can you imagine how that would have broken “import readline” in python? because that worked yesterday and now it doesnt…
<baweaver>
I'm guessing that you've borked permissions somewhere
<baweaver>
recent mac upgrade?
<thatsnotjack>
Camusensei: Do something like `require 'bechmark'; Bechmark.measure { N.times { Time.now } }` to reassure yourself that it's fast, where N is the max number of executions you expect in your loop
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<abernstein>
no, not recent
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<Camusensei>
thatsnotjack: it's funny how you forgot the n in benchmark twice :D
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<Camusensei>
in any case, thanks, it's really cheap :)
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<thatsnotjack>
That makes sense, I dislocated my right index finger yesterday and it's still on the fritz :p
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<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: I'm not sure what your problem is, which line specifically do you expect a return value different than you're getting?
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<thatsnotjack>
aberstein: What error do you get when you try to import readline?
<Camusensei>
thatsnotjack: imightbestupid12 is expecting to populate sie's array with blink, freakonomics, ... etc
<abernstein>
ImportError: dlopen(/usr/local/Cellar/python/2.7.12/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/readline.so, 2): Library not loaded: /usr/local/opt/readline/lib/libreadline.6.dylib
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<thatsnotjack>
Oh I see, on line 23 `title` being passed into your block is the current iteration number, rather than the current item
<Camusensei>
imightbestupid12: ^ that message was for you
<abernstein>
I probably installed some python stuff yesterday as well - I kinda doubt it’s related to the ruby setup I did, just trying to rule it out
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<thatsnotjack>
So use `titles.each` on line 23 and you'll be iterating the elements rather than the numbers between 0 and the length of the elements
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<thatsnotjack>
aberstein: Okay so the lib is missing from your system. Unfortunately I don't know much about OSX. I'd try using whatever package manager you have available to try to reinstall `libreadline`
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<thatsnotjack>
aberstein: Sorry, correction, missing from your system or not where python expects to find it
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<havenwood>
abernstein: Using brew?
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<abernstein>
yes, using brew
<abernstein>
I did “brew install readline”, “pip install readline”, “pip install gnureadline”, and also uninstalled and reinstalled those
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<havenwood>
abernstein: Rebuild Python so it can dynamically link against your readline 7 brew. PS: Why the #ruby channel?
<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: I had another look and I can't spot the issue still. I don't have that version of rails handy and I'm not willing to spin up a project to try to debug that code, so if you need to figure it out on your end I'd run a debugger in the action and see at what point that chain of `.fetch` calls breaks
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<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: but it sounds like you're the FE dev, this should be the BE team's problem
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<abernstein>
yea we can stop with the python stuff here. just because I don’t know what I may have changed when I installed ruby yesterday
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<havenwood>
abernstein: or rather: brew update && brew reinstall python
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<thatsnotjack>
I'm sitting in this long-ass allhands for a company I'm contracting for and the CTO keeps referring to every piece of software we use as a Gem, even things like Nix package manager
<abernstein>
havenwood: thanks, will try that later
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<dmarr>
cheers thatsnotjack
* dmarr
beers thatsnotjack a gem
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<imightbestupid12>
what is an essential ruby book after you know the basics of: numbers, strings, variables, objects, self, methods, classes, attributes, arrays, interacting with objects, using separate source files, unit testing, conditionals and test driven development, modules, blocks, symbols and structs, hashes, custom iterators, input and output, inheritance, mixins, and distribution?
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<havenwood>
imightbestupid12: The Well-Grounded Rubyist (2nd edition for modern Ruby) is one good option.
<thatsnotjack>
Practical Object Oriented Design in Ruby is a pretty solid intermediate level book on object oriented design
<imightbestupid12>
after reading that one will i be ready for thre "real stuff"
<imightbestupid12>
so in this order: the well grounded rubyist, practical object oriented design in ruby?
<imightbestupid12>
anything else after that?
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: Sorry to be blunt but going by the code sample you posted you still need to spend some time practicing the basics you mentioned
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<imightbestupid12>
thatsnotjack: don't be sorry
<imightbestupid12>
thanks for letting me know
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<imightbestupid12>
i want to get better, a lot better
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<imightbestupid12>
learning this stuff is the hardest thing i've ever tried to do
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<imightbestupid12>
i'm glad there is so much support out there
<havenwood>
imightbestupid12: There are lots of books. Ruby Under a Microscope might then be interesting if you're interested.
<imightbestupid12>
i have ordered that book
<havenwood>
I guess all things are interesting if you're interested. >.>
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<thatsnotjack>
Good attitude! I suggest just practicing the basics some more with applications like you shared earlier. Once you've got things like the difference between iteration with `times` and `each` down without too much thought the intermediate level stuff will be more helpful
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<imightbestupid12>
i just want to be a great developer that is able to pick things up fast (like create new apps and learn new frameworks and languages with no difficulty) after learning basics
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<imightbestupid12>
so when should i use times vs each?
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<dmarr>
imightbestupid12: can you knock a character off your nick somehow?
<thatsnotjack>
Well, they do two very different things. The former enumerates a range of numbers, the latter enumerates the elements in a list
<dmarr>
its like one char too long for my irc client
<imightbestupid12>
lol
<dmarr>
how about maybestupid001
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<imightbestupid12>
so basically the difference between times and each is the use case where if i know the total number of iterations i use times and if i don't i use each to iterate through the whole list, or am i wrong thatsnotjack
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<thatsnotjack>
That's a pretty good way to sum it up!
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<imightbestupid12>
thatsnotjack: sorry my laptop just died =(
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: There's Integer#times and Enumerable#each, they serve vastly different use-cases. For example, a = [ 3,4,5 ] is an array whose size you know, but you'd still use .each to iterate over all elements, not a.size.times
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<imightbestupid12>
but a.size.times would work just as well right Papierkorb?
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Use times when you want to do something x-times, and what you want to do doesn't offer a each-esque method instead. So, it's more of a last-resort
<dmarr>
thatsnotjack: if i wanted to use irb and test that block of code, would i need rails or could i do it without rails?
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: No, it would not. You'd have to get the element yourself out of `a`. More work for absolutely no gain.
<imightbestupid12>
i mean the end result
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Still, no. It doesn't give you the element, it gives you the index
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<imightbestupid12>
okay, that's the problem i was having earlier
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: You're coming from a language where you'd use a for(...) loop for this, correct?
<imightbestupid12>
i read some answers from you guys and i was too tired, i fell asleep for 10 minutes and woke up and now i feel fine
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Forget about for(...) when coding in ruby :)
<imightbestupid12>
Papierkorb: how do you know i am coming from a language where you use for loops?
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<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: Because ruby tutorials usually teach using `#each` to iterate arrays, whereas folks used to `for()` loops tend to start by iterating over indices
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<tubbo>
what language doesn't have for loops?
<imightbestupid12>
ruby
<tubbo>
no, ruby has for loops...you just don't need to use them :)
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<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Using the heuristics model inside my brain to estimate the possibility of you coming from one, combined with the knowledge that many many languages have for(...) but no equivalent to #each
<thatsnotjack>
tubbo: Haskell
<imightbestupid12>
what are the languages that i need to know to become a :"well-grounded" programmer?
<tubbo>
imightbestupid12: define 'well-grounded', what do you want to do with code?
<imightbestupid12>
well they have forEach
<tubbo>
like what do you want to make?
<tubbo>
thatsnotjack: good point haha
<imightbestupid12>
i want to make anything that i can think of
<imightbestupid12>
any app and any web app
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<tubbo>
ok
<imightbestupid12>
it will look and function just as i imagined
<tubbo>
but not like...robots, or AI, or embedded devices,
<tubbo>
you want to create high-level applications
<imightbestupid12>
i would love to learn ai
<imightbestupid12>
ai is essential
<tubbo>
that's what elon musk said in that long ass video
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: Ruby will be fine for getting you some grounding, while allowing you to build practical things
<imightbestupid12>
i stopped paying attention to elon musk after i got rejected by tesla's finance program a while ago
<Mrgoose>
hehe
<imightbestupid12>
so now i am focusing on myself to be able to be approved to get a nice car for 100k
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<Mrgoose>
just get the $30k model!
<imightbestupid12>
no
<nofxx>
get the zero bike!
<imightbestupid12>
even though it will have the same crappy interior
<tubbo>
well what i mean is if you want to build applications for the web and for mobile/desktop, you probably want to start with javascript and probably swift/java
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: Python might be what you want to end up with if you're into AI, since it's got a stronger AI community that Ruby, but picking up Python will be really easy once you're proficient with Ruby
<Papierkorb>
Not to master them, mind you, but getting up to speed
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Learn coding because it's fun. Learn your tools (and Ruby may be one of them). And then learn their advantages and weaknesses. Check out some other languages if you want to, but settle for one for the start to really get to know it. Once you've done that (~ 1-2 years of really using it), you can check out another language from a different spectrum. After the second language you should be able to pick up new ones somewhat quickly.
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<tubbo>
honestly if you're ok with drinking the mac kool-aid i think swift is an excellent choice to start with programming
<imightbestupid12>
so i have been programming for nearly 3 years now, but now i am actually "learning" before things just didn't make sense and didn't click... procedural thinking was something my brain was not used to and it's now just rewiring and i want to continue
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<tubbo>
you get a nice IDE, readable documentation, elements of scripting languages while incorporating some pretty advanced concepts
<imightbestupid12>
i have a 27 inch imac in front of me
<thatsnotjack>
dmarr: Sorry, forgot about you for a second. yeah, you need access to the running app so you either need it running locally or need access to a dev server where a debugger can be run
<tubbo>
there's also no bullshit about "which framework/style/convention/library should i use for <x>" it's all just right there in the SDK. there's one way to do things.
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: For now, come up with a project you want to do. Not too small, not insanely large (So, no MMORPG please :P). And then get hands-on experience building the application you want
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<imightbestupid12>
what is a good project that is easy to do and easy to sell?
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<imightbestupid12>
i want to start becoming a "professional" hehe :)
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: Don't be looking to profit yet. You'll make money a lot quicker by focusing on getting proficient first, then looking to profit once you've got skills
<thatsnotjack>
Or, skip coding and just get yourself a nice sales job. Sales is way less effort for way more money if you don't mind kissing a little ass
<imightbestupid12>
what is the most efficient way to learn things?
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<imightbestupid12>
thatsnotjack: i do real estate and i never kiss ass... i guess it's the wrong sales job
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<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: Learning to code is best done by writing code. You're spending your time on IRC asking open ended questions of non-experts instead of practicing right now!
<imightbestupid12>
i mean i would like to sell things by having ads on them and not by having people pay out of pocket for
<imightbestupid12>
okay you're right thatsnotjack... my fault for assuming everyone here is an expert
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<thatsnotjack>
IRC is a great learning resource for short, directed questions that are easy for those with a little more experience than you to answer. But Vague discussion here about which tools to learn won't get you anywhere fast, better just to focus on writing the code :)
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: There's this mantra that coding is like a license to print money. It's not. It's fricking hard work. Annoying customers who don't know what they want. Huge time investments to keep up with the insanely fast moving world. Even for simple things you need a huge knowledge base if you want to get them "right", which you want to when selling things. The programming communities has so many ideas and so many voices that you can easily
<Papierkorb>
feel overwhelmed, as each is yelling how doing X for Y is the only valid solution in existence. But you know what? Programming is fun. Really a lot. And if you have awesome coworkers in a decent company, you can have tons of fun while getting a nice paycheque for doing what you love anyway. And, solving real issues that real people have is damn satisfying.
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<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: So, as you're not there yet. But that's fine, "Welcome to Programming" I guess; Start by solving an issue that always annoyed you, or by building something you always wondered how it works. Can be anything, really, almost anything nowadays is well documented and available online free of charge
<imightbestupid12>
Papierkorb: i'm not learning coding to make easy money, i'm learning it because i want to apply the concepts to make other things easier for me... like creating my own real estate website instead of hiring people to do it for me and creating things that help people if they don't exist yet... i want to take initiative and make cool things for people and work with other people who are interested in my projects to join me and ex
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<tubbo>
it's certainly not "easy" money :P
<imightbestupid12>
programming is the hardest thing i've ever done and my brain isn't very good at procedural thinking, but it's getting better... a few years ago procedural thinking was inexistent
<imightbestupid12>
if it was easy everyone would be doing it and it would probably be illegal
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Excellent, "my own real estate website". There you have your first project! Ruby is a solid choice for web development IMO, the most popular Ruby based framework for this is "Ruby on Rails"
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<AltLock>
I totally agree with thatsnotjack and Papierkorb. You need to learn programming because you like programming, or you need to have an unbelievably stubborn goal in your head (not necessarily a bad thing)
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<ytti>
+1 for imightbestupid12
<ytti>
some many of those craigslists guys who have great ideas and will pay 100bucks for dude to code it for them
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<ytti>
coding especially at POC and low scale level is within everyone's reach
<ytti>
it's not hard
<ytti>
and it's inherently rewarding to humans
<imightbestupid12>
poc level is hard for me
<imightbestupid12>
after nearly 3 years i still suck
<ytti>
sometimes problem may be too large focus on the end result
<imightbestupid12>
granted i never paid attention in school nor got into the habit of studying
<ytti>
i started with perl, and never learned to write perl
<ytti>
as it was just tool for me to help my other work
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<ytti>
when i started with ruby, i took some time to actually learn ruby as the sole purpose of using time
<imightbestupid12>
i would love to know some workflow "hacks"
<ytti>
and i felt after 2 months, my ruby was superior than my perl, which i had written over decade
<imightbestupid12>
some tips and tricks that will help me optimize my time learning new things
<ytti>
i don't think there are shortcuts, i think experimentation is key
<ytti>
and when ever you run into things 'well i don't think i get how this works'
<ytti>
make it smaller, more contained problem
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<ytti>
and find out
<ytti>
those will pay dividents
<ytti>
and indeed real-estate page is very very good starter project
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: Then your approach in that time was just not the right one. But I want to encourage you to learn from those failures and look past it. If nothing, you must have quite some dedication to still push after these 3yrs. So, this moment right now is the best one to get started working on your real estate webpage!
<ytti>
there are very many rails for beginner projects only choose one, or couple
<mikecmpbll>
i reckon if people spent the time they spend trying to figure out how to learn best, actually learning, they'd probably be where they want to be.
<ytti>
mikecmpbll, which is where goal orientation hurts
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<AltLock>
I don't know.. For real estate you need databases, good security, knowledge, motivation etc. Go ahead, but I'm not sure you'll make it
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<ytti>
mikecmpbll, becuase you sweep the problem away, and just make it work, almost randomly
<mikecmpbll>
learning is so uncomplicated, you just research how to do stuff, comprehend it, and repeat it until you're better at it.
<ytti>
without really understanding why it works or how
<ytti>
you will save time that time
<mikecmpbll>
what?
<mikecmpbll>
no.
<ytti>
but there are no dividents
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<imightbestupid12>
is going to app academy a good investment?
<mikecmpbll>
no.
<ytti>
i would jsut start building the site from zero
<ytti>
and understand how things work
<ytti>
(granted rails isn't best to start with, if you want to understand it fully, rails is largely not meant to be understood in-depth, it's very meta)
<Papierkorb>
AltLock: I learned C mainly by writing a OS kernel, cause I wondered how they work and I heard C is capable of writing kernels in ;) I still hate the floppy drive, such an awful interface! If you really want to get somewhere, you will.
<imightbestupid12>
what's the best to start off with?
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<ytti>
you could literally write real-estate page without any non-standard libraries
<ytti>
it wouldn't be the smarest for end-result point of view
<ytti>
but it would teach you most
<imightbestupid12>
what do you mean by that?
<ytti>
then you could redo it in rails or sinatra or such
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<mikecmpbll>
imightbestupid12: what do you want to learn how to do?
<Papierkorb>
ytti: I think Rails is a good choice. In this stage, the most important thing is NOT understanding everything, but to get results on the screen as motivation. Then, you dig deeper
<imightbestupid12>
ai, make games, make apps, make web apps and the like
<mikecmpbll>
cool, pick one learn it
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<mikecmpbll>
then pick the next one, and learn that
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* mikecmpbll
sighs
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<ytti>
(holy shit most real estate pages are crap, looking for a new house/apartment right now)
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<imightbestupid12>
ytti: what do you think of this site? miami-best-condo.com
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<imightbestupid12>
it's a friend's site... i just want honest feedback =)
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<AltLock>
Papierkorb: Yeah, I prefer doing it that way as well, going all in, but it's different to me when there are a lot of considerations to make about security, when there are a lot of things you need to understand before you get any progress, etc.
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<imightbestupid12>
how much would you charge for a site like that?
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<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: The pages design isn't really modern anymore. not digging much deeper though.
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<imightbestupid12>
she paid $199 for the site + $99 a year hosting
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<Papierkorb>
AltLock: Absolutely, but you have to start somewhere. I'm happy that I began coding with locally running things, but then I think the world has moved onwards. At least, with Rails, there are battle-tested, stable gems to get around the most stupid mistakes.
<apeiros>
35s to load 40MB…
* apeiros
is fascinated
* apeiros
remembers the time when 400KB on the front page was considered too much
<Papierkorb>
That thing is this large? Wow
<thatsnotjack>
There's a SQLi hole on the front page search inputs too :D
<AltLock>
Papierkorb: Hmm... maybe you're right.
<apeiros>
but I'd say 200$ is a good price for that
<thatsnotjack>
yeah $200 is dirt cheap
<thatsnotjack>
But uh if that site's hooked up to anything important maybe have a security person go over it
<imightbestupid12>
how do you know there is a hole in the front page?
<Papierkorb>
apeiros: Those *were* better times. I hate how every webpage has become a full blown application of sorts, loading megabytes of just javascript to not be used in 99,9% of the cases.
<apeiros>
but honestly, selling properties in the region of $500k to $2000k it's a rather cheap site
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<nofxx>
hm... is thre some way to have a method that isn't inherited by children in the father class?
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<AltLock>
Papierkorb: +1
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<imightbestupid12>
apeiros: how do you think people get rich? they don't spend money lol
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: sqlmap
<nofxx>
Papierkorb, there were worst times too... FLASH anyone?
<apeiros>
Papierkorb: I have no issue with websites being full blown apps. but even that can be done in <500KB
<Papierkorb>
apeiros: If I'd be interested in buying houses in that price range, I'd Ctrl-W before the page finishes to load assuming that it doesn't work at all
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<apeiros>
Papierkorb: yupp, same. and I wouldn't trust it.
<Papierkorb>
nofxx: ActionScript3 is nice, I liked it. Flash is terrible though.
<nofxx>
or... FLEX... flex is the ultimate app solution...
<Papierkorb>
Or Adobe AIR
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<nofxx>
in 2001... hehu yeah, flex became air? no?
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: $200 is absurdely little to spend on something that a decent chunk of sales are going to come through. Looking at this from a margin stanpoint and the likely loss of business resulting from a poor site, this is probably underinvestment
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<Papierkorb>
No idea when AIR was published, but I think I used it once (as an user) and hated it.
<imightbestupid12>
well she hired a bunch of russians to do the site and everything is cheap in russia
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<AltLock>
lol
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: "You Get What You Pay For"
<apeiros>
the point is - it is cheap. not inexpensive.
<Papierkorb>
If you pay shit, you get shit
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<imightbestupid12>
well i hear wordpress sites like that cost $1k in the us
<thatsnotjack>
And don't take 40s to load
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<AltLock>
WordPress? For non-blog sites? Why is it even a thing...
<Papierkorb>
AltLock: It is D:
<thatsnotjack>
When all you've got is a hammer...
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<AltLock>
thatsnotjack: ..., you better smash the heads of people who use WordPress for non-blog purposes in.
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<AltLock>
Woops, that went off-topic quick..
<thatsnotjack>
Maxwell's silver hammer by the Beatles is actually a Ballad about Jr. web devs using Wordpress when they shouldn't
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<AltLock>
Taking a listen to it now, I'm probably a lot younger than you :P
<thatsnotjack>
Nah, the Beatles are timeless
<AltLock>
In that case it's not really my thing
<thatsnotjack>
Maybe Skrillex will drop a remix soon
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<AltLock>
Not my taste either. Give my The Beatles in that case for sure
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<imightbestupid12>
where do you see 40 seconds?
<imightbestupid12>
i see 9.3 seconds as loading time
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<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: on my clock
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: That's ultra slow
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<imightbestupid12>
i looked at chrome dev tools
<imightbestupid12>
load: 9.13s
<AltLock>
imightbestupid12 because you are closer to the server, maybe? ;)
<apeiros>
that's still like 90x too slow :)
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<imightbestupid12>
vs google.com 1.4s and reddit.com 1.67s
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: That site uses lots of heavy assets which your browser likely has cached by now
<imightbestupid12>
vs zillow.com 1.41s
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<Johne>
test = Array.new(3)
<imightbestupid12>
thatsnotjack: would opening a private window fix that problem?
<Papierkorb>
imightbestupid12: One major difference is that while those times are not that bad for me, those pages show content almost right away. that real estate thing there is sipping tea or something, but it's not displaying anything for ages
<Papierkorb>
Johne: [ nil, nil, nil ]
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<Johne>
how do i do that with the bot?
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<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: yeah, we're way off topic though probably best to take your questions to a general webdev channel
<imightbestupid12>
how hard of a project would it be to make a recipe app?
<imightbestupid12>
sorry i didn't mean to get off topic
<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: That's a good starter project. Just start basic with a command line interface
<Papierkorb>
^
<imightbestupid12>
you guys were telling me about lots of rails starter projects... where can i find those?
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<thatsnotjack>
imightbestupid12: I suggest you learn ruby before rails
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<Johne>
>> test.join(", ")
<imightbestupid12>
is there something similar for ruby?
<Papierkorb>
^²
<ruby[bot]>
Johne: # => wrong number of arguments (given 0, expected 2..3) (ArgumentError) ...check link for more (https://eval.in/653364)
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<imightbestupid12>
or should i just do all the exercism exercises?
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<Johne>
>> test = [1 2 3 4]
<ruby[bot]>
Johne: # => /tmp/execpad-4dbe65bb8f32/source-4dbe65bb8f32:2: syntax error, unexpected tINTEGER, expecting ']' ...check link for more (https://eval.in/653365)
<thatsnotjack>
I suggest you just build a command line recipe application. I feel that you're at the stage in learning where building a working program is probably the most useful thing for you, but that's just my humble opinion
<imightbestupid12>
you're right
<thatsnotjack>
Johne: irb is a great tool for avoiding spamming IRC channels :)
<Papierkorb>
Johne: Could you use your local irb or pry?
<apeiros>
?experiment Johne
<ruby[bot]>
Johne: Please use your local irb or pry (see ?pry) to experiment, ruby[bot]'s eval functionality is for demonstration purposes only.
<Johne>
lol yes i was trying to show an example but I'm failing
<thatsnotjack>
try it in irb first, then paste
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<Johne>
so i created an array, then joined it into a string, now i'm just trying to puts it, but i dont know how to reference the var
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<AltLock>
?pry
<ruby[bot]>
Pry, the better IRB, provides easy object inspection `ls`, `history`, viewing docs `?`, viewing source `$`, syntax highlighting and other features (see `help` for more). Put `binding.pry` in your source code for easy debugging. Install Pry (https://pryrepl.org/): gem install pry pry-doc
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<apeiros>
Johne: you use the name of the var. like always with variables.
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<thatsnotjack>
Johne: This code is hard to read. Before getting help with longer snippets maybe try to normalize your indentation, and use longer, more descriptive variable names so that those without prior context can quickly understand what's happening
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<thatsnotjack>
Johne: What behavior are you expecting that you are not seeing?
<Johne>
so tvs is a normal array, i just joined them into tv
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<Johne>
i feel like an idiot because its all there except for calling the variable
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<thatsnotjack>
Johne: Line 15 is broken, you're comparing a boolean to a string
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<thatsnotjack>
.nil? returns true/false, and you're comparing it to "false" so that brench is never being entered
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<thatsnotjack>
A good first step in debugging this would have been to put a `puts` statement on line 16 to ensure the branch is being entered, or even better, enter a debugger there if you're familiar with them
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<thatsnotjack>
Basically, any time something that's in a conditional isn't happening, start debugging by ensureing that the conditional branch is being entered
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<Johne>
ok
<Johne>
ill start there ty
<thatsnotjack>
No problem. Your code seems to work after that issue is fixed though, nice work on the rest of it!
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<Johne>
trying to leave the eggdrop world and leave my tcl life behind me
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<thatsnotjack>
That's what's throwing you off then, in tcl everything can be compared with strings if I remember correctly. In ruby, you need to compare things like true/false with values of the proper type
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<thatsnotjack>
Well, I should have said everything is a string, not can be compared with strings
<Johne>
yeah, but this is opening so many more doors
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<thatsnotjack>
Do you understand the difference between strings booleans and numbers in ruby yet?
<Johne>
yup
<Johne>
true = true, not true = 1
<thatsnotjack>
right, and more importantly in this case `true != "true"`
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<ModusPwnens>
If you are in name space Foo::Bar, how do you include a module that is in namespace Foo? I keep getting undefined method errors.
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<Emmanuel_Chanel>
chris2: I forgot to change my password for my local mail server then. So I wasted 6 hours or so by missing it. Looks nobody had intruded, though.
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<Jakey3>
easy way to uninstal rvm?
<havenwood>
Jakey3: rvm implode
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<Jakey3>
thanks
<Jakey3>
guess that was joke
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<Jakey3>
havenwood, that worked thanks
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<Jakey3>
if i want to install ruby with a specific version 2.3
<Jakey3>
how do it do it
<Jakey3>
with rvm
<havenwood>
Jakey3: rvm install 2.3.1
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<Jakey3>
thanks
<havenwood>
Jakey3: before installing update RVM: rvm get head
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<Jakey3>
is that an update
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<Jakey3>
or a ****job
<havenwood>
Jakey3: yup, updates RVM to latest
<Jakey3>
thanks
<mikecmpbll>
:D
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<SeepingN>
best joke evar
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<Jakey3>
lol
<SeepingN>
to push changes it should be "give head"
<Jakey3>
lol
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<Jakey3>
how do i un-install rvm wipe Kleenex
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<Jakey3>
on a serious note how do i un-install ruby with rvm
<apeiros>
seriously?
<Jakey3>
?
<Jakey3>
ye
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<Jakey3>
i mean a specific version
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<apeiros>
on the danger of repeating myself: seriously?
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<Jakey3>
ye no worries i look at the manual
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<apeiros>
you mean after 3 times of needing help on installing a specific version of ruby, you can manage that?
<Alayde>
this may be a dumb, basic/beginner question but: is there like a set of guidelines for when to use class methods over instance methods, or vice versa?
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<Jakey3>
apeiros, well i got an iq over 10
<Jakey3>
so i give it go
<apeiros>
Alayde: when you need to access data of the instance, you'll want instance methods
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<apeiros>
class methods are rather rare. common case for class methods is for alternative constructors. e.g. Date.civil(y,m,d), Date.commercial(y,week,weekday), Date.ordinal(year, dayofyear)
<Jakey3>
rvm uninstall 2.3.0 ?
<Jakey3>
here goes nothing
<apeiros>
maybe you don't have 2.3.0?
<Jakey3>
rvm uninstall 2.3.1 ?
<Jakey3>
worked
<Jakey3>
all good thanks
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<apeiros>
congratulations
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<Alayde>
apeiros: awesome, thanks
<apeiros>
yw
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<imightbestupid12>
that code that you saw is me going through an online tutorial from the pragmatic compnay