sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
fkhan has quit [Quit: fkhan]
zzyzx has joined #bitcoin-wizards
zzyzx is now known as Guest74864
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
roidster has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Guest74864 is now known as roidster
roidster is now known as Guest42465
Guyver2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
sausage_factory has joined #bitcoin-wizards
blackwraith has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
laurentmt1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
[d__d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Eliel_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
laurentmt1 is now known as laurentmt
Eliel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
xeon-enouf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Crowley4k has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[d__d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards
xeon-enouf has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guest42465 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
Crowley4k has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
GAit has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Quanttek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
laurentmt has quit [Quit: laurentmt]
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<bsm1175321>
bramc: that it is. Did you see my comments above?
<bramc>
bsm1175321: Did not read closely
<bsm1175321>
bramc: Given the Merkle Set as you've implemented it,let's assume I want to add or remove a UTXO from the set commitment. What is the minimal amount of info that has to be transmitted to allow a third party to compute the new root without the removed (with the added) element? (I'm concerned that tree rebalancing might require more than a log(n) Merkle path)
<bramc>
bsm1175321: It's log(n)
Guest34917 is now known as maaku
<bsm1175321>
So tree rebalancing isn't going to require me to know more than that?
<maaku>
bsm1175321: you don't need to rebalance a trie
jarret has joined #bitcoin-wizards
<bsm1175321>
Hmmmm...oh yeah you're using a Patricia Trie, no? then how is the root hash computed?
<maaku>
;later tell zooko our p2p layer has a bunch of different buckets for categorizing peers, and tries to connect to at least one from each category. one category could be "provided high PoW"
<bramc>
maaku: There should be several reserved for each category
<maaku>
i think i got that syntax wrong anyway
<bramc>
Really it should be several different measures of goodness, and the top N from each category should be let in for sure
<bramc>
of each measure I mean
<maaku>
bramc: that's what it is
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
roidster has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Alopex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Alopex has joined #bitcoin-wizards
NewLiberty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
NewLiberty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
nuke1989 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Tasoshi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Tasoshi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
rusty has joined #bitcoin-wizards
voxelot has joined #bitcoin-wizards
GAit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<Eliel_>
ah, right, that's got the advantage of not being order dependant while the exact red black tree structure would depend on the insertion/deletion order.
Giszmo has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Crowley4k has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<maaku>
you can unbalance a patricia trie, but it involves successively harder proof of work...
<Eliel_>
well, it'd take quite some processing power to actually unbalance it enough to make much of a difference.
GAit has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<Eliel_>
Plus, wallets could be programmed to help it closer to balance again and that would take much less processing power.
phiche1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
voxelot has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phiche has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Ylbam has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<bramc>
I'm doing a few extra tricks to make it so that the tree has to be really really unbalanced for it to be a problem
jl2012 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<bramc>
Implementation tricks, not format tricks. Well there is one format trick: I'm making it so that whenever there are only two things under the current position they both bubble up to the immediate position
jl2012 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sausage_factory has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Giszmo has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
metric has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
metric has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
maaku has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
voxelot has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
NewLiberty_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
NewLiberty has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
TheSeven has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
TheSeven has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rusty has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
tromp_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
zooko has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bramc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
belcher has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Peter00 has quit [Quit: Peter00]
<bsm1175321>
bramc: what I'm missing is a quantitative measure of "unbalancedness".
<bsm1175321>
And given a badly unbalanced tree, how much communication beyond the Merkle path at log(n) is required for an observer to independently compute the new Merkle root, including rebalancing, where the observer does NOT have the entire tree.
sparetire has quit [Quit: sparetire]
zooko has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
go1111111 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
davec has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
davec has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
go1111111 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Alopex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ThomasV has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Alopex has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
adlai has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
adlai has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
ThomasV has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
roidster has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
priidu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
rustyn has quit [Read error: No route to host]
rustyn has joined #bitcoin-wizards
grubles has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Peter00 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Starduster_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Starduster has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
o3u has joined #bitcoin-wizards
o3u has joined #bitcoin-wizards
o3u is now known as FistfulOfCoin
arubi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
voxelot has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Ylbam has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jcluck has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Crowley4k has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phiche1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
cluckj has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
cluckj has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phiche has joined #bitcoin-wizards
jcluck has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guest72371 has quit [Changing host]
Guest72371 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Guest72371 is now known as s1w
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
maaku has joined #bitcoin-wizards
maaku is now known as Guest86973
Guest86973 is now known as maaku
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
rustyn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
andy-logbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
andy-logbot has joined #bitcoin-wizards
* andy-logbot
is logging
rustyn has joined #bitcoin-wizards
adlie has quit [Quit: Not all who wonder for lust]
liead has joined #bitcoin-wizards
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
AaronvanW has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Guyver2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Quanttek has joined #bitcoin-wizards
melvster has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
dEBRUYNE has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
melvster has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phiche1 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phiche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
CubicEarth has quit []
adam3us has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
adam3us has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
adam3us has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Guyver2 has quit [Quit: :)]
voxelot has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kackbratze has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kackbratze has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
LeMiner has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
LeMiner2 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
phiche has joined #bitcoin-wizards
phiche1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gribble has quit [Disconnected by services]
gribble has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has joined #bitcoin-wizards
laurentmt has quit [Client Quit]
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
HostFat has joined #bitcoin-wizards
priidu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
melvster has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
melvster has joined #bitcoin-wizards
roidster has joined #bitcoin-wizards
roidster is now known as Guest38492
Guest38492 is now known as roidster
HostFat_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
tromp_ has quit []
tromp_ has joined #bitcoin-wizards
HostFat has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
LeMiner2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Jeremy_Rand_2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
LeMiner has joined #bitcoin-wizards
sparetire has joined #bitcoin-wizards
belcher has joined #bitcoin-wizards
GAit has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
CubicEarth has joined #bitcoin-wizards
HostFat_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hdbuck has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
roconnor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
zooko has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE has joined #bitcoin-wizards
hdbuck has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
hdbuck has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE has quit [Quit: Leaving]
hdbuck has quit [Quit: hdbuck]
GAit has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Crowley4k has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
phiche has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
murch has joined #bitcoin-wizards
GAit has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
Peter00 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has quit [Client Quit]
dnaleor has joined #bitcoin-wizards
frankenmint has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Peter00 has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dnaleor has quit [Quit: Leaving]
priidu has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE has joined #bitcoin-wizards
dEBRUYNE has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
liead has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
oneeman has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
GAit has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
GAit has joined #bitcoin-wizards
arubi has joined #bitcoin-wizards
kisspunch has joined #bitcoin-wizards
CubicEarth has quit [Remote host closed the connection]