2015-10-30 00:53
sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development |
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<
maaku >
I nominate Bob.
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<
murch >
kanzure: Yes? :)
15:29
<
sipa >
murch: kanzure is just quoting a link :)
15:29
<
kanzure >
don't mind me.
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<
murch >
Oh, you also use this channel for archival of research?
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<
sipa >
and spreading of knowledge
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<
waxwing >
that's pretty interesting, thanks kanzure murch
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<
xinxi >
instagibbs: here we are.
17:17
<
bsm117532 >
I'm confused by your question...why use a quantum-resistant key exchange algorithm to exchange keys for an algorithm that is itself not quantum resistant (e.g. relies on security of ECDLP)?
17:17
<
instagibbs >
xinxi: CT is also broken under quantum attack
17:17
<
instagibbs >
so, it's not really an added plus, even if we ignore "it's not in libsecp" :P
17:18
<
xinxi >
Is it? commitment = xG + aH is not broken though.
17:18
<
sipa >
xinxi: privacy-wise, no
17:18
<
sipa >
but security wise it certainly is
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<
xinxi >
If the privacy is kept, isn't it enough?
17:19
<
bsm117532 >
it relies on the elliptic curve discrete logarithm being hard though.
17:19
<
sipa >
no, you can arbitrarily print money
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<
sipa >
for a given commitment C you can't find the original amount and blinding factor
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<
sipa >
but you easily find another amount and blinding favtor with the same commitment
17:20
<
instagibbs >
information theoretically private, but not secure in the inflation sense
17:20
<
instagibbs >
right?
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<
sipa >
yup CT is information theoretically private, but only computationally secure
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<
xinxi >
Why not use a quantum resistant homomorphic method?
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<
sipa >
CT is already painfully large as it is.
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<
sipa >
quantum reistant methods usually have huge keys and signatures
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<
xinxi >
OK. Did you check CCT?
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<
xinxi >
That's much smaller than CT.
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<
instagibbs >
"Unfortunately, Andrew Poelstra was able to break the cryptosystem for this scheme's range-proofs." from Feb 2nd this year
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<
xinxi >
Aha, missed that.
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<
xinxi >
What're the ECDH public/private key sizes now used by Elements?
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<
sipa >
secp256k1 all the way
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<
xinxi >
Thanks. That's indeed much smaller than post-quantum algorithms' keys.
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<
sipa >
CT range proofs are already 2.5 kB
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<
sipa >
we have an optimization to reduce it to around 1.8
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<
xinxi >
Yeah, that's pretty big. Research on the range proof is quite active though. Efficient Protocols for Set Membership and Range Proofs got 152 citations.
17:42
<
xinxi >
There is still no break through?
17:42
<
waxwing >
sipa: has anyone given much thought to smaller ranges? 32 bit amount range is quite huge. (if i remembered that right)
17:44
<
sipa >
waxwing: well, logarithmic gain :)
17:44
<
sipa >
one problem is that there is a propagation of informationn
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<
waxwing >
yes, well. point(s) taken.
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<
sipa >
if all inputs that indirectly consistitute an output ever used a small range, you know a lot
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<
waxwing >
i think the log scaling is the important point there, the other point is valid but you can argue both sides of it (some privacy is better than none).
17:52
<
yoleaux >
bsm117532: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page.
17:52
<
bsm117532 >
Efficient Protocols for Set Membership and Range Proofs
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<
bsm117532 >
uses Boneh's signatures...
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<
sipa >
bsm117532: afaik, those are not more compact than CT
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<
sipa >
the range proof used in CT would be around 15000 bits for that range they demonstrate
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<
bsm117532 >
I see, you're already using the Borromean ring signatures...
18:09
<
sipa >
bsm117532: yes, borromean ring signature were invented for CT
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