sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<Itsfibonacci>
As a result of your moderator community being exceptionally ignorant and the developers exceptionally greedy I have decided to pull Fibonacci support levels from btc. I will no longer support bitcoin core on any level. Enjoy. Cash Coin is the future anyway.
<Emcy_>
glhf
<Itsfibonacci>
Bitcoin/cash is gonna wreck a lot of you power and money hungry fools.
<Itsfibonacci>
bye
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<nsh>
(still off-topic)
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<musalbas>
#bitcoin-wizards-offtopic?
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<kanzure>
it's a sidechain.
<musalbas>
:-)
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<Taek>
When it comes to using cryptocurrency for legitimate business purposes, speculators and whales are an externality.
<Taek>
This is more visible in the altcoin world, where the dev teams will commonly withhold 20% or even 96% of the coins
<Taek>
They hold that much with the intent of selling over time, extracting value for themselves at an unpredictable and uncontrolled rate, and unquestionably pulling value out of the network
<Taek>
The same is true for every whale and speculator in Bitcoin, if you are holding Bitcoin because you intend to sell it at a higher price, you are externality for people who hold Bitcoin for its utility
<Taek>
I think you can combat this by making the inflation rate of the coin equivalent to the fifth root of the difficulty
<Taek>
err, the block reward equivalent to the fifth root of the difficulty
<Taek>
If the currency goes from 5,000 people using it to 5,000,000,000 people using it, the inflation rate jumps by 16x
<Taek>
This limits the ability of one person to be a whale in the ecosystem - you have to buy in over time to maintain the same ownership as the network grows
<Taek>
At the same time, the inflation will only increase if the actual usage of the coin goes up, and the inflation will decrease if the usage of the coin drops
<Taek>
so people who are holding it for utility don't actually see any penalty from this scheme - the inflation rate only increases if their asset value is also increasing
<Taek>
Honestly, I would like to see it be the square root instead of the fifth root, but Moore's law made that less ideal. If we assume computational power doubles every 18 months, an inflation rate that is the square of the difficulty means the block reward doubles every 36 months
<Taek>
And that just seems like too much natural inflation
<smk>
wrong venue friend
<Taek>
> This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies
<Taek>
Given that I don't know of any project with this type of inflation schedule, I'd say we are comfortably in theoretical territory
<andytoshi>
smk: generally block parameters are -wizards territory (if there is some reasoning behind them and they haven't been beaten to death already, neither of which seem to be the case here)
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<Eliel>
Taek: it's an intriguing idea, but I wonder about the premise itself. Would the use value alone be enough to create the critical mass needed for the system to really take off?
<Taek>
Potentially not, cryptocurrency definitely wouldn't be in the spotlight right now on utility alone. It's popular because people are making hundreds of millions
<Taek>
I realized another issue: this scheme, even without moore's law and without growth, means your inflation rate would be 10% at the 10 year mark
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<Taek>
which is already huge. So I'm thinking it should be thought through some more, with consideration of the total difficulty or something
<Taek>
Really you only want to be spending a few % per year on PoW I think
<Taek>
maybe 2-4%
<Eliel>
Also, there was some coin that made a lot of noise years back that actually did something similar in tying the block reward to difficulty. Although I forget the actual function.
<Eliel>
I can't recall the name though.
<Eliel>
Ah, solidcoin it was
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<bsm117532>
If block reward is proportional to difficulty, it makes "merging" of alternate histories easier (given some merging conflict resolution rule) because you don't have to re-jigger block rewards in the merge.
<Eliel>
Might it actually create an incentive to recreate the history just for the blockrewards since you can now make the blocks with bigger rewards than before?
<bsm117532>
Yes, but maybe it doesn't really matter. You could apply the same hashpower to win the same coins in a new block instead. The only reason to screw with old blocks if is you can game the merging algorithm.
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<Guest86699>
good grief
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<kanzure>
ignotus: would some kind of canonicalization/normalization prevent the output malleability that you're speaking about? or would it not be possible to set a rule about how to detect whether a mutant was the one committed to?
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<theflow->
hi can we talk about dynamic block sizes in here since this isnt #bitcoin
<theflow->
This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies
<theflow->
right in the topic!
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<cluelessperson>
ban theflow-, he's jumping between channels to spam.
<theflow->
how is it off topic
<theflow->
please lets have a rational convo about
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<cluelessperson>
theflow-: it's only a matter of time until I find your real identity. The more you rejoin, the more I learn about you.
<theflow->
i dont care if you do, what are you going to do, sue me?
<theflow->
the only reason i dont use my real identity-which i did -- is because you banned me
<cluelessperson>
theflow-: You might want to make sure you have a lawyer ready.
<theflow->
i used my real one, i have nothing to hide
<theflow->
ok im scared
<theflow->
again either do something or shutup but your threats have 0 effect except to escalate.
<cluelessperson>
theflow-: >30 recorded and provable interstate felonies, with irrefutable evidence.
<theflow->
OK
<theflow->
send in the feds
<cluelessperson>
theflow-: You think I'm joking, but some of the people you've spammed have been on military networks. They don't play with that shit.
<theflow->
send in the feds
<theflow->
im obviously very scared.
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