sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja
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<Jmabsd>
Anyone familiar with "Lelantus"? A privacy method
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<sarang>
Yes
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<andytoshi>
o.O phil rogaway at real world crypto is giving a talk about linear secret sharing
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<andytoshi>
where he claims that classical SS has "multiple and serious problems that limit its utility for people to use it"
<andytoshi>
curious if he spoke with anyone in this space about this. wei dai is a coauthor on the paper
<instagibbs>
... how serious?
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<andytoshi>
my expectation is that he's going to cover many of the problems that we've been complaining about in this space
<andytoshi>
though he's talking about uses that actually make sense (unlike most bitcoin applications where checkmultisig is simpler and more appropriate)
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<andytoshi>
he's talking right now about normal linear secret sharing (not verifiable secret sharing, or anything deterministic, or whatever)
<andytoshi>
about how if you change a share there is no authentication or ability to recover; talking about a dealer maintaining a secret indefinitely (at least, for as long as dealing takes which may be a long time); talking about inability to regenerate secrets without doing a full re-dealing
<andytoshi>
he points out that some robustness techniques exist for this but the academic definitions do not address corruption of more than one share
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<bsm1175321>
Also for most bitcoin usage, you're not talking about byzantine setup.
<bsm1175321>
LSS needs commitments for verifiability too, and the shares are much larger. But otherwise, I'd say they're interchangeable.
<gmaxwell>
08:57:33 < andytoshi> he points out that some robustness techniques exist for
<gmaxwell>
this but the academic definitions do not address
<gmaxwell>
corruption of more than one share
<gmaxwell>
bsm1175321: andytoshi is well aware of that, but existing scheme do not tolerate corrupted shares (or only have limited an impratical tolarance).
<gmaxwell>
So you in theory have a N of M signature and year if any 1 of your M parties emits corrupted shares you can't sign at all.
<gmaxwell>
(without doing some not-very-scalable shoot-parties-in-the-head process to find the broken one)
<sipa>
the talk was unfortunately very short
<gmaxwell>
bsm1175321: It's never quite clear exactly how much fault tolerance is needed... sometimes devices are just corrupt, it doesn't have to mean malice. ... and if you really could always trust all your signers to behave faithfully, why not just give each one a copy of an ordinary private key? :P
<gmaxwell>
bsm1175321: there are multisig schemes people propose where a misbehaving signer can steal the key.
<gmaxwell>
which sounds exactly like the thing people are trying to prevent with multisig in the first place.
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<andytoshi>
turns out we need a broadcast channel for that to be useful
<andytoshi>
curious if anybody can find any citation ever, across all the secret sharing literature, which admits this
<andytoshi>
beyond using the verb "broadcast"
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<gmaxwell>
It might be better to find another word other than broadcast. Because you actually need a guarentee that all the users see the same thing -- true broadcast, not something that is satisfied by "send the data to all peers".
<instagibbs>
The term is Reliable Broadcast Channel, no?
<instagibbs>
Reliable doing a lot of the work there
<gmaxwell>
yeah
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