#bitcoin-wizards on 2020-01-13 — irc logs at freenode.irclog.whitequark.org

2015-10-30 00:53 sipa changed the topic of #bitcoin-wizards to: This channel is for discussing theoretical ideas with regard to cryptocurrencies, not about short-term Bitcoin development | http://bitcoin.ninja/ | This channel is logged. | For logs and more information, visit http://bitcoin.ninja

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10:10 <elichai2> Does anyone knows of any writeup of the change in security model by committing to a utxo commitment in the blocks and not verifying older blocks? is it any different than SPV model?

10:11 <elichai2> is there any known way to use utxo commitments in a better security model than SPV?

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12:54 <gleb> I remember sipa's and achow's old responses on stackoverflow, but it's not really that deep. I think writing up something like this would be useful.

12:58 <gleb> Well, technically, since there are currently very few nodes serving BIP158, I would argue that this SPV security is lower than if something is committed to the block, from the network layer prospective. But that's not the security you're asking about :)

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14:46 <instagibbs> elichai2, whatever it is, it's the basic ethereum security model. Most nodes ignore "history" and validate at tip

14:47 <elichai2> instagibbs: right. and a lot of other new currencies. I'm curious if there's any writeup on what is/isn't possible and what exactly are the models here

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14:58 <instagibbs> gut feels is that it's on the "weak subjectivity" spectrum where you're forced to stay pretty current, or phone a friend to get on the proper tip

14:59 <instagibbs> the friend in this case being a miner...

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16:13 <kanzure> "Reducing the bandwidth of block propagation in bitcoin network with erasure coding" https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8922597

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16:23 <bsm1175321> kanzure: need comparison to Erlay, Falcon, FIBRE... but interesting.

16:24 * bsm1175321 puts on referee hat

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16:31 <bitcoin-wizards3> What is the theoretical propagation minimum with globally decentralised nodes? 120ms?

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16:47 <bsm1175321> bitcoin-wizards3: 2*pi*r_e/c = 133ms (speed of light -- multiply by a factor up to 3 for copper)

16:48 <bsm1175321> But your question is ill specified...are you asking how much time for a packet to reach all nodes? If the packet is transmitted in all directions simultanously the answer is half that, 67ms.

16:49 <bsm1175321> Again, speed of light -- you'd need e.g. StarLink to get close to it. In practice, more like 200-250ms.

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16:50 <bitcoin-wizards3> Agree with your calculation but isnt glass fiber only 30% slower than air?

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16:53 <bitcoin-wizards3> wintelguy com/wanlat.html

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17:56 <bsm1175321> yes

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17:57 <bsm1175321> 200-250ms is my personal experience with ping times.

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20:20 <gleb> "In particular, Bitcoin [1] and Ethereum [2] demonstrate thatthe transaction speed is not sufficient to handle large-scaletransactions."

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20:20 <gleb> Wtf i just read.

20:22 <sipa> ha

20:22 <gleb> tl;dr: "this paper does not analysis the security of the proposed method,"

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