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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] jbenet pushed 2 new commits to dev0.4.0: http://git.io/vBRYn
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/dev0.4.0 c419049 Jeromy: ipfs files ls without -l is faster...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/dev0.4.0 e04a31d Juan Benet: Merge pull request #2007 from ipfs/feat/fast-files-ls...
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<roguism>
What does diasdavid go by here on IRC?
<jbenet>
__mek__ want to do some research on todos with me? i propose we try out an asana todo list to manage stuff. the new asana is way better than the old one, and would provide really good inspiration for an open-source focused one.
<jbenet>
roguism daviddias
<jbenet>
roguism he's usually daviddias everywhere, but github.com/daviddias beat him to github.com
<roguism>
oh, okay. I was just gonna poke him about some js-ipfs stuff
<__mek__>
jbenet: wfm, I also want to talk to dustin at some point, since I hear he shares the belief of interoperable todo
<__mek__>
We likely both have a handful of friends who can connect us.
<jbenet>
__mek__ indeed-- will ask for intros tonight.
<__mek__>
I'll be out of state until sunday, I'll get setup w/ asana and play around
<jbenet>
sgtm
<__mek__>
You too! & co.
<__mek__>
On the plane I'll come up with notes and foward them along.
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] lgierth force-pushed version-commit from 6b96594 to 9d0c3f5: http://git.io/vBR8s
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/version-commit 8ab0ddf Lars Gierth: gateway: add tests for /version...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/version-commit 3e03ae8 Lars Gierth: gateway: add CurrentCommit to /version...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/version-commit 9beebc9 Lars Gierth: commands: enable version for API...
<jbenet>
pokeball99 yes, DAG is Directed Acyclic Graph-- if this doesn't immediately fill your mind with understanding about implications re the data in IPFS, i strongly recommend spending a few hours learning a bit of graph theory, algorithms, and specifically, merkle trees and authenticated datastructures
<jbenet>
pokeball99 (dont know your background, if not used to papers, really don't be intimated, it's all relatively basic stuff, there's just a lot of it to grok)
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<jbenet>
grahamperrin: im not sure-- from first reading, I think it is VERY logical-- they should be separate. one is for adding support (like, adding it as a package to download?) the other is using it to distribute binaries.
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<pokeball99>
Haha, i actually do know a bit of all of that except for the merkle trees
<pokeball99>
Also this guy is trying to implement ipfs into his project,he hasnt really gotten around to work on it,but im wondering if doing that in his project would be not hair pulling due to the fact that its a new system that he would have to put into and it would be easier to just make a new project or scrape it all together,or if it wouldnt cause a real problem
<jbenet>
pokeball99 we think it's very easy to work with ipfs. some rough edges but very smooth overall
<jbenet>
it does the basic stuff so well you wont notice it
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<__mek__>
jbenet: Here's an interesting idea. Let's say one wanted to subscribe to a todo item. Then the todo item is edited. We'd always want subscriptions (i.e. pubsub) to a todo item to be on the original, item, right?
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<__mek__>
For instance, we create a todo item T. It is issued a universally unique id (hash) and associated with it are hypothetical properties, e.g. "subscribers"
<__mek__>
Never mind, the obvious counter example is one wanting to change their subscription status. Disregard.
<__mek__>
jbenet: The reasoning was, it would be cool if any core ipld object or its derivative could be followed/subscribed. Perhaps by assigning an object (and all its future derivatives/re-publications) a same uuid which is not their hash.
<jbenet>
__mek__ i'd probably tie this to names and republishing on a name, sort of like a feed.
<__mek__>
Makes sense.
<__mek__>
It would be neat if every single possible object could be followed.
<jbenet>
__mek__ have the name point to a "Notifier" object that points to (a) the target object getting updated, (b) the new feed's root.
<jbenet>
__mek__ yeah. possible that like with versioning, would likely end up with different ways to do it (eg commits vs CRDTs)
<__mek__>
Alternatively, I was imagining every ipld object (even a Post) points to an object which has a unique hash, but that a given object can be republished (yet retain some id which is unique to that object -- a universal object id)
<__mek__>
So, you'd just have to look at the latest publish of an object to see what is subscribed.
<__mek__>
And republishing would/could change the access control.
<__mek__>
e.g. A `Task` (which has an object id) might reference an IPFS ipld `Post` (which has an object id `o`). Anyone subscribed to the latest revision of `o` would get a notification if there's a change to the Task or Post.
<__mek__>
Another interesting quality is things which are not people/parties (i.e. services, arbitrary metadata) can subscribe to objects and then conceivably perform tasks
<jbenet>
i think it would be good to model all these options with visual diagrams of the resulting graphs
<__mek__>
Sounds fun. The implementation is important, though in this case I was attempting to illustrate a high level notion -- did it make any sense whatsoever?
<jbenet>
yeah it did. basically assigning tokens/ids that group different revisions of objects, and then being able to get notifs on any.
<__mek__>
Yup
<__mek__>
The high level use case being, Foo Corp wants to see if Bar Corp has added any data to their REST API. Instead of polling, they can be notified by subscribing to Bar Corp's service (which is an object)
<jbenet>
idk, since i want to implement notifications as objects themselves, it gets tricky to reason about "things happening for every object" that themselves generate objects
<__mek__>
At an implementation level, that's a fair point.
<jbenet>
well that use case can be done by just implementing feeds with ipns
<__mek__>
Yup, in this case (and maybe in most cases)
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<__mek__>
It would be cool for subscription / pubsub of objects to be a 1st order property, like versioning, rather than an opt-in thing
<__mek__>
Otherwise adoption is limited to the service or object
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<__mek__>
Rather than to the user or agent who wants to subscribe to it
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<jbenet>
well versioning is opt-in too, because it is objects again, and there are many ways of doing it
<jbenet>
i don't hope to come up with "the one versioning to rule them all" -- in that commits make a lot of sense for some things, but not for others. same with CRDTs
<jbenet>
so far i've been thinking through it like interfaces, a "versioning system" or "version history" would have certain properties and satisfy some requirements/methods
<jbenet>
but the implementations can vary across use cases.
<jbenet>
that frees us to implement the 1 or 2 most common ones without shooting future people in the foot
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<__mek__>
I suppose the most important thing is having a living protocol.
<jbenet>
(i.e. can implement Commits the git way knowing they're "wrong" from a "commutable patch theory" perspective, without dooming the system to this version of the world)
<__mek__>
Yeah.
<jbenet>
in any case-- feel free to document your thoughts on notifications in an ipfs/notes note
<jbenet>
good to track all this stuff as we make it-- others will always randomly show up and contribute more ideas
<__mek__>
pokeball99: I do see that, in the xspf's
<__mek__>
pokeball99: Who's to say he didn't purchase those tracks legally, question is if he is distributing them.
<pokeball99>
Yea
<__mek__>
I'm not qualified to speak to any of those subtleties, it's a good point.
<pokeball99>
Well,anyone can grab them from his repo
<pokeball99>
So technically he is
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<__mek__>
pokeball99: The "silk road" paradigm is a challenge with any new distributed piece of technology which enables potentially mischievious behaviour with little friction.
<__mek__>
(not a direct analogy, but the general idea is a hard one to keep in balance/check)
<pokeball99>
Can you repeat that in english?
<__mek__>
lol
<__mek__>
It's hard to enforce user behavior when there's a system which easily allows bad behavior
<pokeball99>
Ah
<__mek__>
And the question of how much intervention there should be is a hard question
<pokeball99>
Gotcha just wasnt sure
<__mek__>
With no intervention, there could be heavy misuse. Too much intervention could stiffle creativity and adoption.
<__mek__>
pokeball99: I think I type things before they even make sense to me. I'll try to think more.
<__mek__>
My brain suffers from the "silk road" paradigm :)
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] AtnNn opened pull request #2008: use ServeContent for index.html (master...index_content_type) http://git.io/vBRME
<pokeball99>
2008 sucked
<pokeball99>
We got obamacare because of that year
<ansuz>
canada already had obamacare
<ansuz>
but we didn't call it that
<__mek__>
carenada
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<jbenet>
pokeball99: i request you leave political trolling outside of this room
<pokeball99>
Hehe
<pokeball99>
Im 15,so i dont even gaf about politics,plus its all fucking drama,that and the news media
<jbenet>
zignig: well! lots happening :) -- sorry would chat more but am about to go adk
<jbenet>
afk*
<zignig>
no worries , as long as you are still enjoying it !
<zignig>
gather steam to take over the multiverse !
<zignig>
:)
<jbenet>
absolutely! :) -- the best part is seeing people super excited about it and building things
<zignig>
it is , pub/sub and keyrings.....
<zignig>
cambrian application explosion.
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<jbenet>
yeah
<zignig>
BOOM!
<zignig>
have fun on your mission.
<pokeball99>
Haha like how you bought the domain of misspelling the site: ifps.io
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* zignig
types ifps all the time
<zignig>
I have a bash alias to ipfs
<tjhowse_>
Hey all. I'm reading up on IPFS now. Seems cool. I have a question about how snapshots work. At a glance it seems to imply that IPFS builds layered deltas on all data. This is the only way I imagine snapshots working as described. Have I missed something?
<locusf>
is there any progress wrt git remote over ipns?
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<rht___>
lgierth: I'm here for live debug for gc if this can make things faster
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<rht___>
(looks like lgierth is not around, back to async, nipping out)
<pokeball99>
trying to mirror glop.me and the command they have ( ipfs name resolve QmbqE6UfCJaXST3i65zbr649s8cJCUoP9m3UFUrXcNgeDn | ipfs pin add -r ) doesn't work,what will work?
<AtnNn>
pokeball99: which part doesn't work?
<pokeball99>
the latter part
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<Qwertie>
How do you update go-ipfs?
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<M-davidar>
ping mek
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<Xena>
lol
<Xena>
netsplit
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<davidar_>
yup
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<Xena>
i see lots of circles
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<computerfreak668>
is there any attemp to combine this protocoll with a blockchain?
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<dignifiedquire_>
ion: why? ?Error is Error or void
<ion>
dignifiedquire: “< 3” ≠ “not (> 3)”
<dignifiedquire>
ion: ah right, didn’t touch that yet
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<dignifiedquire>
ion: re redundant, I’m afraid no because if this is used from outside people could put any stupid stuff into that function (flowtype does not add runtime checks)
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<dignifiedquire>
ion: but those checks could be made nicer, more like assertType(arg1, Buffer)
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<ion>
Ah. That’s sad (having to accomodate invokers from the untyped world).
<ion>
m
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: yes because we are passing number | string
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: though that code could use some improvements probably to get rid of that
<daviddias>
so, I need to do my homework
<daviddias>
but does flow has a way to export the js code in a way that it adds those kinds of checks?
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: flow itself only does static checking
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: it has no runtime overhead, as everything gets stripped before execution
<daviddias>
but who strips it?
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: babel
<daviddias>
babel does everything
<dignifiedquire>
they had their own tool once, but now babel does it, and it does it better xD
<daviddias>
ahah :D
<dignifiedquire>
and facebook hired the guy from babel to work on babel
<dignifiedquire>
:D
<dignifiedquire>
gonna setup the build process and tests next
<dignifiedquire>
but it feels pretty sweet in terms of error catching and cleaner code
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<daviddias>
what if someone that doesn't use babel requires that code
<daviddias>
?
<dignifiedquire>
it throws
<dignifiedquire>
we need to provide a built version on npm
<dignifiedquire>
and add instructions for building to the readme
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: it’s like all type safe languages, you get a compile step that does type checking
<daviddias>
so it would be like using typescript, right?
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<dignifiedquire_>
daviddias: similar to typescript, but much more relaxed as you do not have to provide interfaces definitions for all libraries you are using, as flow can be used to only run on parts of the code
<daviddias>
got it, main difference then
<daviddias>
sounds good :)
<daviddias>
oh right, it is thanksgiving in the US! That hangout might have to wait till next week
<dignifiedquire_>
ah right
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<dignifiedquire_>
I’ll find something to do in the meantime ;) l
<daviddias>
review and make registry-mirror even more awesome? :D
<dignifiedquire_>
lol
<dignifiedquire_>
I could add types to it :P
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<dignifiedquire_>
also there is the rest of the http api :'(
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<daviddias>
:)
<dignifiedquire_>
daviddias: how is the cloning coming along?
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<daviddias>
whyrusleeping: made things faster in go-ipfs
<daviddias>
and lgierth made it faster at the OS level