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<ogzy>
is there any books related with technical details or background of IPFS or related technologies?
<ogzy>
and second question is, how can an object be updated when it is added via ipfs add, assume that it is a website, readding is causing another hash
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<kpcyrd_>
ogzy: /ipfs/ is immutable, you can use /ipns/ if you need a dynamic pointer to the latest hash
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<ogzy>
kpcyrd_, so it will point to my peerid, ok that my solve, at this point another question, my node should be online right for ipns?
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<kpcyrd_>
ogzy: after you go offline the value of your peer id expires after a while, but I don't know how quick that happens from the top of my head. either 1h or 24h.
<kpcyrd_>
*expires from the dht
<ogzy>
kpcyrd_, i had created a local ipfs environment by removing bootstrap nodes and superrouters, assuming that the content is accessible at each node, shıouldn't be the ipns info is also kept?
<kpcyrd>
I think the file gets cached and is available after the ipns value expired, but I think the ipns record itself gets expired regardless
<kpcyrd>
ogzy: not sure about that tho
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire created greenkeeper-karma-mocha-reporter-1.1.3 (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vBazv
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs-api/greenkeeper-karma-mocha-reporter-1.1.3 95124cf greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update karma-mocha-reporter to version 1.1.3...
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire deleted greenkeeper-karma-mocha-reporter-1.1.3 at 95124cf: http://git.io/vBagC
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<dignifiedquire>
good morning everyone :)
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<NeoTeo>
good morning :)
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<computerfreak668>
moin
<Confiks>
So I've been away from watching IPFS for a while, and now a lot of the development seems to be focussed around a Javascript implementation. Is that right?
<Confiks>
Or at least, I see a lot of the building blocks of the protocol being implemented in JS.
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<NeoTeo>
I think the development is pretty concurrent with the go design and implementation leading the way.
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<Confiks_>
Alright. I really wanted to explore using the IPFS API with Go, so that's good to hear.
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<dignifiedquire>
Confiks: pretty much everything work on js is already implemented in go, it's still the most mature implementation at this point in time
<dignifiedquire>
but we are trying to catch up with the js implementation so you can run a node in the browser
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: so I was thinking about creating a yo generator for js ipfs projects, so we don't have to do things from scratch every time and model it after what we currently have in js-ipfs-api
<dignifiedquire>
or we could just create a boilerplate repo for now
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<daviddias>
Testing 1 2
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<daviddias>
Oh, so IRCcloud is working from mobile, but not from Web ?
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: why not use a desktop client?
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<Gaboose>
so multiaddr is a self described transport+address, right? does ipfs or users of ipfs/go-libp2p use addresses of form /ipfs/peer/<peerid> when connecting to each other?
<Gaboose>
if not, does it make sense to do so at some point?
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<Gaboose>
even though under the hood it uses a swarm of /ip4/tcp/ connections
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: I think bobot.me died
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: the last message it recorded was last night
<dignifiedquire>
.tell jbenet please look into the botbot.me bot, it seems to have stopped logging
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<daviddias>
The DDoS is on freenode
<Stskeeps>
yeah, time to decentralize ipfs chat ;)
<daviddias>
I'm surprised how the mobile client can get messages passing through
<gamemanj>
so that is why I couldn't connect
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<daviddias>
dignifiedquire I like IRCcloud, it offers me ZNC without having to maintain it
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<daviddias>
And it does make me configure things a 1000x across OS
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<dignifiedquire>
.tell dignifiedquire test
<dignifiedquire>
!pin something
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: jbenet lgierth looks like all the bots died
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<dignifiedquire>
arrgh bad wifi p
<dignifiedquire>
+ irc is not a good combination
<dignifiedquire>
!pin are-you-there
<gamemanj>
no pinbot?
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<dignifiedquire>
gamemanj: no bots at all
<dignifiedquire>
even the history logging stopped working last night
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<gamemanj>
that doesn't sound good
<dignifiedquire>
gamemanj: the bots are taking thanksgiving holidays
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<gamemanj>
bots, taking holidays?
<dignifiedquire>
there is a first time for everything
<gamemanj>
I'm pretty sure the point of a bot is to save a human time
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<gamemanj>
when a bot asks for human rights, we (and they) will eventually have to manufacture sub-bots, which aren't intelligent enough to qualify...
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<dignifiedquire>
gamemanj: let's tell that to the bots when they come back from their holidays :D
<gamemanj>
and then when we and they build sub-bots intelligent enough to qualify for human rights, then we have to build sub-sub-bots
<gamemanj>
and so on
<dignifiedquire>
sub^{infinity}-bots
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<gamemanj>
hmm, should I start a temporary pinbot to save us from this lack of pinbot, or not...
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<dignifiedquire>
seems nobody is around atm who knows where the bots are running and has acess
<gamemanj>
so, basically, network goes down due to ddos, and all the bots drop dead
<gamemanj>
but #esoteric's bot HackEgo seems fine, so at least some people's bots are fault-tolerant
<gamemanj>
and #crystal-lang's DeBot... seems pinbot's disappearance is the exception, not the rule
<gamemanj>
hmm, the way pinbot's "hosts file" seems to work indicates that somewhere out there, IPFS nodes with open API ports exist
<gamemanj>
either that or the whole solarnet runs behind a firewall
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<daviddias>
sweet! :D
<daviddias>
specs and protocols are awesome
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: do you have an ipns link for testing things for me?
<daviddias>
for testing things?
<dignifiedquire>
(or anyone else)
<dignifiedquire>
testing `ipfs resolve` to document it
<daviddias>
on 0.3.9 world or 0.4.0 world?
<dignifiedquire>
3.9
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<daviddias>
it is taking forever to publish on 0.3.9 land
<daviddias>
done
<daviddias>
» ipfs name publish QmeuehsX78RCnHnqxq9o7A1pC5ShrtAcDE3pzwyWjXzeZF
<daviddias>
Published to QmXU8Q1b1tZNMSwqPtNHtZP5ZLYfCyUqncukCaBBAe1GWX: QmeuehsX78RCnHnqxq9o7A1pC5ShrtAcDE3pzwyWjXzeZF
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<dignifiedquire>
even the resolve takes ages
<dignifiedquire>
60s for resolve
<gamemanj>
what about 0.3.10-dev world?
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<computerfreak668>
stupid question: if i add a folder, and someone pin it, does he receive content i change withing this folder? and what if we both modify the same file at the same time withing that folder?
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<amz3>
greeting ipfs people :)
<AtnNn>
computerfreak668: when you add a folder, the current contents of the folder are added to ipfs. future modifications are not
<kpcyrd>
computerfreak668: if you modify a file the hash of that file changes and that causes a change in the hash of the directory
<computerfreak668>
ok , is there no way to get a perma-hash which only points to the folder but doesn't represent the hash of all files?
<computerfreak668>
i hope u know whati want :P
<kpcyrd>
computerfreak668: are you trying to sync a folder between computers?
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<computerfreak668>
yes
<computerfreak668>
or more computers ofc
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<computerfreak668>
maybe it needs an over-layer for such thing .. maybe a block-chain-based system? :P
<amz3>
isn't it the role of the DNS system to keep track of hash updates?
<amz3>
computerfreak668: according the the faq this is a usecase of IPNS but i can be wrong
<amz3>
...
<amz3>
well, I'm looking for answers too, I wondering whether it's possible for multiple users to store files in the same directory
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<amz3>
I read IPFS can be used as database, I need to understand what is the ACL semantic of that database
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<gamemanj>
IPFS doesn't quite work that way... Accessing data is based upon hashes. Short of a hash collision, the data associated with a hash can't change.
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<gamemanj>
IPNS allows associating a public key with an IPFS hash.
<gamemanj>
But that can only be done by someone with the private key to the public key.
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<gamemanj>
So, basically, the only person who can update a database that was built using IPNS is the person with the private key for writing to the IPNS key.
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<computerfreak668>
so if we had a ''folder-user'' everyone who has the private key of that ''folder-user'' get full control? but currently u can only have 1 user per node right?
<computerfreak668>
but can anothe ruser pin my id so he starts syncing?
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<gamemanj>
computerfreak668: They can pin the latest version with: ipfs pin add /ipns/QmNXgsGqjeHbwZpCEq7nQX2kgn56UpvsBspw2vdHsfLYqQ
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<gamemanj>
However, AFAIK it won't automatically update what they've pinned.
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: we really need to get rid of this chunked json..
<gamemanj>
Using the gateway to get /ipns/QmNXgsGqjeHbwZpCEq7nQX2kgn56UpvsBspw2vdHsfLYqQ will always resolve to whatever was published last (unless those records have expired).
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<gamemanj>
But pinning pins the version at the time that it was pinned. I'm pretty sure pinning is just a way to keep things in the cache, though, so it doesn't matter much.
<computerfreak668>
damn
<computerfreak668>
so no way for a sync folder right now
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<gamemanj>
Well, actually...
<gamemanj>
Are you on a platform that supports ipfs mount?
<computerfreak668>
i think so
<computerfreak668>
its ubuntu
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<gamemanj>
So, that's a "yes" then :)
<computerfreak668>
didnt knew there are other platforms supported too :P
<gamemanj>
IDK either
<gamemanj>
I'm just using broad wording.
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<gamemanj>
ipfs mount allows for a sort-of virtual filesystem. But you can't write to it...
<amz3>
thx gamemanj
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<computerfreak668>
well one more question: can someone use my ip if i give him my private key?
<computerfreak668>
and can we both going online at the same time with the same key?
<computerfreak668>
that would be the beginning for sync folder for now ..
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<gamemanj>
Well, if you give someone the PeerID/PrivKey pair in the "Identity" section in your config, then they can post to your IPNS key. I'm not quite sure what would happen if two nodes went online with the same key... I'm going to try it and see what happens!
<gamemanj>
Apparently I can't run two daemons on the same machine...
<computerfreak668>
damn
<computerfreak668>
run a vm
<computerfreak668>
or docky
<gamemanj>
I have another idea... *sshs into a computer far, far away...*
<gamemanj>
What could possibly go wrong?
<gamemanj>
Well, there are now two peers with the same ID on the network.
<gamemanj>
...Wait, a sec... I closed one of the terminals.
<computerfreak668>
ok that works
<gamemanj>
Oh, nevermind, it is running? Isn't it? I have no idea.
<gamemanj>
Oh, good, yep. Two daemons running with the same peer ID.
<computerfreak668>
haha
<gamemanj>
I fear what would happen if they ever had to communicate.
<gamemanj>
Anyway, now to have them communicate.
<computerfreak668>
try to publish folder
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<gamemanj>
Well, it published...
<gamemanj>
now to wait for the receiving end.
<lgierth>
jbenet: got the secio/conn thing to work by casting host.Network() to a swarm.Network and exposing swarm.dialer there
<lgierth>
\o/
<gamemanj>
Oh, pinbot's back!
<lgierth>
yeah i gave it a kick
<lgierth>
it's not that good at recovering from anything at the moment
<gamemanj>
I hope the network does not ever experience a mild case of the common cold.
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<lgierth>
:)
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<gamemanj>
Well, it's been about a minute and a half,
<gamemanj>
so presumably my attempts at a paradox have successfully caused confusion.
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<gamemanj>
It might have worked if there weren't two daemons...
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<gamemanj>
both of which have the same Peer ID...
<gamemanj>
and if I wasn't trying to get one to get data from the other...
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<computerfreak668>
haha
<computerfreak668>
damn
<computerfreak668>
we need a workaround for this
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<computerfreak668>
something like bittorrent-sync would be nice, there is nothing like this open-source yet
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<pjz>
I should really finish my commercial pinning service
<lgierth>
computerfreak668: you can pin whatever you feel like on your own node though :)
<computerfreak668>
well thats called adding :P
<gamemanj>
commercial pinning service...?
<computerfreak668>
better find a way to sync a folder ;)
<gamemanj>
pjz: A commercial pinning service? What's the point? A single user could probably run the IPFS node software on a Raspberry Pi, and a company could just regulate everyone to run IPFS on their workstations. :)
<pjz>
gamemanj: because your node has to be able to 1) have space and 2) be available 24x7
<pjz>
gamemanj: consider backup via ipfs add, then service-pin the root
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<gamemanj>
pjz: I'm pretty sure that twenty-five pounds, a basic internet connection (static IP not needed), and a few watts of power at all times are available to most entities that would have any reason to use such a service..
<gamemanj>
(Not counting the price of the SD card for storage, but still. It's not that much.)
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<gamemanj>
pjz: The real question is if your commercial pinning service would also be a gateway for the pinned items.
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<gamemanj>
Because if someone has a reason to want a commercial pinning service, they probably have people who aren't them who need to access the data.
<computerfreak668>
if it has a namespace for me, im interested :)
<pjz>
yeah, no, that's a different service upcoming on the list :)
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<gamemanj>
Well, what reason would someone have to use a pinning service over pinning it themselves with commodity equipment.
<pjz>
gamemanj: space?
<gamemanj>
What kind of data are we talking about, full-on databases???
<pjz>
gamemanj: I could rip all my DVDs one at a time, and pin them
<gamemanj>
Because you generally don't put databases onto a channel where data is freely shared.
<gamemanj>
Same goes with DVDs!
<pjz>
gamemanj: also, nothing stops encryption
<gamemanj>
Ok, fair enough. So you're basically hosting a storage service.
<pjz>
right
<gamemanj>
Which IPFS just happens to be the medium of, really.
<pjz>
sure
<gamemanj>
What stops me from adding something, then going to some random gateway and downloading it every so often to hold it in cache?
<gamemanj>
Doesn't have to be the gateway's cache, either - the intermediate nodes might cache it too, right?
<gamemanj>
And then you use swarm mapping, and connect to specific peers, then request stuff from them, spreading it in the direction across the graph you want it to go...
<pjz>
gamemanj: ...nothing? you're relying on the gateway's cache behavior which isn't under your control, though.
<gamemanj>
Yeah, true. But did you notice how other nodes can be influenced if you have your own node on the network, which you control the connections of?
<pjz>
gamemanj: though generally peers only cache what they themselves request (unless it's a gateway, of course)
<gamemanj>
hmm, a shame
<gamemanj>
So only gateways cache other people's stuff...
<pjz>
well, or other nodes that accessed it
<pjz>
I don't know if there are protocol changes planned to change that behavior, but there might be
<gamemanj>
Still, at least that stops someone turning the network itself into a giant storage device
<pjz>
right
<pjz>
though you can do that with other protocols
<pjz>
email, for instance
<gamemanj>
There's something else that could be done, though.
<pjz>
?
<gamemanj>
Simple. You said that if a node requests something, then they'll cache it.
<gamemanj>
So, have a public-facing site that is sort-of-popular,
<gamemanj>
and have it happen to request stuff from the local IPFS gateway in the background.
<gamemanj>
Ofc this public-facing site would have to be on IPFS because of origin policies.
<gamemanj>
Ofc, at this rate it gets impractical.
<pjz>
sure
<gamemanj>
But what, seriously, stops someone from sticking their data on a commodity device, maybe giving it one of those portable chargers as a pseudo-UPS, and running "ipfs daemon" on startup?
<gamemanj>
Yes, they would need the storage for the data. But if they have the data in the first place, that means they already have the storage for it.
<gamemanj>
They just need storage for the pinned copy.
<gamemanj>
If they're handling big data, then chances are they have enough resources to store that data where they need to.
<pjz>
sure, could be. And space is cheap and getting cheaper. Bandwidth maybe?
<pjz>
128GB SD cards are almost cheap
<gamemanj>
Bandwidth is probably the only limiting factor here.
<gamemanj>
I suppose it depends on the use case.
<pjz>
256GB SD card < $100
<pjz>
so that'd be one way to use a RasPi :)
<pjz>
512GB are still 4x that $$ tho
<gamemanj>
Well, even if 512GB is some large amount of money, they're relying on the fact that most people don't know logical volume management.
<gamemanj>
How much is 4 128GB MicroSDs?
<gamemanj>
Or 8 64GBs?
<gamemanj>
Or normal SD cards, failing that?
<gamemanj>
Hmm, there's a lot of no-name "128GB" memory cards. I'm guessing they're not real - even the packaging on the pictures just says "Memory Card" and a bit of generic nonsense
<gamemanj>
Hmm, if 512GB are 4x the price of 256GB, then no matter what prices you're looking at, two 256GBs would give you 512GB at half the cost. Add LVM...
<gamemanj>
and then you get something that may as well a 512GB disk for management purposes.
<gamemanj>
Anyway, bandwidth is where my plan to not-use-commercial pinning services falls apart.
<gamemanj>
So, pjz's service is useful after all, to reduce bandwidth usage.
<gamemanj>
(on the part of the person who wants their stuff pinned, anyway.)
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<pjz>
aanyway, the idea is to be low-friction. I'm not even going to require account creation. You pay via coinbase ($$ or BTC) and supply the hash(es) you want pinned. I take that amount (in $$$), turn it into Terabyte-hours, then divide by the size of what you want pinned to figure out how long to pin it for.
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<gamemanj>
Terabyte-hours? That sounds like pretty high-density storage. Are you aiming for business users?
<pjz>
... no; time and space are interchangable - 1TBH = 1000GBH
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<gamemanj>
And presumably a TBH is 60 TBMs. What happens when the date changes on the servers?
<pjz>
hunh?
<pjz>
what do you mean 'when the date changes' ?
<gamemanj>
Like, what happens when a server's date has to be corrected?
<gamemanj>
Clocks drift, did you know?
<gamemanj>
Just by a little, but when you do the time update, you end up with a few situations:
<pjz>
sure, and I should figure out what resolution I'm actually going to pin to; I suspect something like 5-minute or 15 minute resolution
<pjz>
because drift is usually measured in seconds per year
<gamemanj>
Hmm, that should work.
<pjz>
basically, it's how much I don't mind erring in the customer's favor
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<gamemanj>
Fair enough. How would you keep competitive with, say, (assuming it ever comes out) Filecoin, though?
<gamemanj>
If exchanges exist that are able to exchange BTC for filecoin, you'd basically have to be at a lower price than Filecoin's exchange rate... which would lower Filecoin's exchange rate...
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<pjz>
sure; I wouldn't compete, or rather, I'd just add a filecoin offering
<pjz>
it's not meant to be a forever business :)
<pjz>
maybe I'd turn it into some kind of filecoin gateway: one-stop-pay-for-space thing. If that's not economical, then maybe I turn the outstanding balances into filecoin and prepay for pinning all the existing customer data and then shut down.
<pjz>
Burn that bridge when we come to it
<gamemanj>
huh, just looked at the date on the Filecoin paper: July 15, 2014
<gamemanj>
Who sees an impending birthday to that paper and thinks "doesn't seem to be getting off the ground anytime soon"...
<gamemanj>
I suppose "impending" is still quite a while off,
<pjz>
well, but IPFS is a pre-req to filecoin
<gamemanj>
ah
<pjz>
so... it's progressing
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<pjz>
anywya, gotta run; good talking to you... ttyl
<gamemanj>
bye then :)
<pjz>
oh, hunh, got a 30min reprieve
<pjz>
well, 15. anyway.
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<gamemanj>
hmm... the Filecoin paper still includes a proof-of-work. The problem is with that, someone will get Filecoin based on how much CPU/GPU they're burning as opposed to how much data they're storing for the network.
<daviddias>
whyrusleeping: around?
<pjz>
gamemanj: I think that's in there to prevent spamming
<gamemanj>
"spamming"?
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<_fil_>
I used ipfs to cp a 3Gb file between two machines
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: did you see my answer?
<_fil_>
about 100Mb went through… then it stopped for 10 hrs
<_fil_>
no idea what happens in that case
<daviddias>
aaah
<daviddias>
if I click on the name of the thing on apiary
<daviddias>
it shows the http route stuff
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: yes
<dignifiedquire>
:D
<daviddias>
I thought that the description was the documentation so far xD
<dignifiedquire>
and you can even test the request right there
<daviddias>
my bad, sorry
<dignifiedquire>
loooool
<dignifiedquire>
no worries, but yeah that would have not been very impressive
<dignifiedquire>
there you can get a quick overview what is already done
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<daviddias>
got it! thank you
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<daviddias>
so, definitely, following on the same thread of previous conversations, spec will make it way more easier to have https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs/pull/35 out
<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs] diasdavid pushed 1 new commit to jsipfs: http://git.io/vBK3N
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs/jsipfs da015c8 David Dias: remove current tests to start again
<dignifiedquire>
yep for sure
<dignifiedquire>
did you see my message earlier about a generator/boiler plate project?
<dignifiedquire>
by the way, can I convince you to use expect (chai) instead of assert by any chance ;)
<dignifiedquire>
I feel it just is much more readable `expect(value).to.be.equal(‘hello’)` than `assert.equal(value, ‘hello’)`
<daviddias>
sure
<daviddias>
when I use Lab
<daviddias>
I always use BDD
<daviddias>
with Code
<daviddias>
when I use tape, I go with assertions
<dignifiedquire>
and if you use mocha you do a mixture ;)
<daviddias>
one thing I never got about mocha
<dignifiedquire>
by the way, is there any real difference between Code and chai?
<dignifiedquire>
I never understood the reason for Code existing in the first place
<daviddias>
is why everyone is confortable with those "throw err"
<dignifiedquire>
I’m not
<dignifiedquire>
or hmm
<dignifiedquire>
not sure about it rather
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: I dunno, I used the whole pack, then Code was broke into its own module
<dignifiedquire>
I always thought best practice was to call `done(err)`
<daviddias>
interesting
<daviddias>
never seen that one with mocha
<daviddias>
(or maybe I missed it)
<daviddias>
I like tape assetions
<daviddias>
t.err(err)
<daviddias>
so simple and clean
<daviddias>
nothing is "thrown" :P
<daviddias>
but yeah, feel free to PR things to chai
<dignifiedquire>
well with chai I mostly do `expect(err).to.not.exist` or `expect(err).to.be.an.error(‘You failed’)` which is why I very rarely use `done(err)` and never used `throw err`
<dignifiedquire>
it’s like tape, clean assertions an no random throwing of things
<daviddias>
or start writing with chai form now on and we will move it gradually
<dignifiedquire>
I’ll make a pr for it when I get some time on js-ipfs-api as it’s our prodigy child :D
<daviddias>
about yeoman and project scafolding, I had written here an answer, but freenode failed me it seems :)
<dignifiedquire>
and you can try it out on js-ipfs (I just thougt about this stuff, seeing your commit “delete tests to start fresh” :D )
<dignifiedquire>
yeah freenode wasn’t the best today
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: so what was your answer? :D
<daviddias>
my thoughts are that yeoman and project scafolding tools are in general, a dream that never becomes a reality. It would be awesome to have a huge boost when starting a project, after all, we keep repeating things, but what I've seen and experienced in the past was that maintaining the boilerplate/generator consumes a huge amount of our cognitive resources
<daviddias>
(and typically generates a lot of bikeshedding discussions)
<daviddias>
plus, everyone likes to tinker and try new things
<dignifiedquire>
true
<daviddias>
I'm using inspiration from other projects all the time
<daviddias>
even c&p package.json completely with npm scripts and pre-commit hooks that I always use
<dignifiedquire>
I guess the best thing to do is then extracting the important gulp tasks out of js-ipfs-api I think, cause they are very reusable in a lot of the projects and see the rest where it goes
<daviddias>
true
<daviddias>
for all the other modules that specially have to be run in the browser
<dignifiedquire>
e.g the release stuff and the daemon starting and simple mocha + karma test setup
<dignifiedquire>
and the webpack build stuff
<daviddias>
we can create an issue with the list of modules that have to be "migrated"
<dignifiedquire>
they all can be their own npm gulp task package that you can use where needed, that way we can easily update them over a lot of packages
<daviddias>
and invite everyone to be part of that task force
<dignifiedquire>
sounds good
<dignifiedquire>
have a nice todo list, and everyone can chime in
<daviddias>
it would be a set of perfect "help wanted" "good first contribution" tasks
<dignifiedquire>
yep
<dignifiedquire>
also we should accumulate a list of all js-ipfs related github repos, as they are scattered over the ipfs, your and jbenets account atm
<dignifiedquire>
which is kinda tricky if you are trying to find sth
<kyledrake>
daviddias I've been thinking about trying a re-design of the IPFS site, and libp2p-website might be a good staging area to try something and see if it can work for both. Would you like me to try to design something?
<dignifiedquire>
kyledrake: uhh :) I like the word redesign
<daviddias>
kyledrake: that sounds good! Did you get my note on the libp2p-website repo about how http://leveldb.org/ looks so good? :)
<kyledrake>
Yeah I was just looking at that
<daviddias>
lol for libp2p-website, I would call it "design", because I really didn't design anything there xD
<kyledrake>
I just wanted to make sure you weren't married to owning that design work before I gave it a shot
<kyledrake>
;)
<kyledrake>
It looks fine though
<daviddias>
feel free to change it :D
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<kyledrake>
daviddias to your knowledge is there anyone doing an IPFS redesign right now? Just checking to make sure
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<daviddias>
on the https://github.com/ipfs/website, we really want/need for it to be updated too, doesn't have to be drastically, but adding more clear information, links to resources, talks, links to articles in other webpages
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<daviddias>
kyledrake: dignifiedquire handles the design of Station, the electron app and Webui, the dashboard, but no one is handling ipfs/website not libp2p-website
<kyledrake>
cool, thanks. I'll play around with it and see what happens.
<dignifiedquire>
yes I’m thinking of some stuff, and I had some ideas about the website, but too many things happening to get them all done atm
<dignifiedquire>
I’m happy to bounce ideas around though if you want at any time kyledrake
<daviddias>
making https://ipfs.io/ more resourceful and useful would be more of a priority than libp2p
<daviddias>
is there also a way to have our tests without having global variables?
<dignifiedquire>
sure you can write const expect = require(‘chai’).expect at the top of each file
<dignifiedquire>
but I’m lazy ;)
<daviddias>
like, would it be too obnoxious to require the modules?
<daviddias>
ahaha
<dignifiedquire>
but there is a more sound reason why I put things like expect into globals in tests
<daviddias>
I'm just not a big fan of 'magic things that exist on the global namespace'
<daviddias>
which is?
<dignifiedquire>
I just feel it makes the tests more expressive, especially in more complex suites where you have quite a lot of dependencies, and if I have to add then things “unreleated” to the test as well it makes it much harder to digest
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<daviddias>
makes tests more expressive having global vars?
<dignifiedquire>
yes
<daviddias>
I would think of it the other way around
<dignifiedquire>
because expect being a function instead of a keyword of the language is just a technical detail/boilerplate
<computerfreak668>
short question, if u mind:
<computerfreak668>
if i ipfs add a file with one id, it gets <this-hash>
<dignifiedquire>
but I don’t feel that strong about it, I have some project where I write require(‘chai’) in every file and it hasn’t killed me yet ;)
<dignifiedquire>
*projects
<computerfreak668>
but if another person do the same with a different id, is it also <this-hash> ?
<dignifiedquire>
computerfreak668: as far as I understand if the files are identical, the hash should be identical
<dignifiedquire>
but that means every bit of the file needs to be identical
<computerfreak668>
also metadata like time modified?
<dignifiedquire>
computerfreak668: no, just the content, as the metadata is not added to ipfs as far as I know
<computerfreak668>
ok nice
<dignifiedquire>
but daviddias can probably give you a more sound answer
<daviddias>
dignifiedquire: give you the right answer
<dignifiedquire>
:)
<daviddias>
there is the MerkleDAG node which contains the data
<daviddias>
(or a link to several shards of that file if the file is big)
<daviddias>
there is a MerkleDAG node if that points to the MerkleDAG node of the file which contains the data, if the file is added inside a folder (and therefore, keeping its name)
<daviddias>
but then, there is unixfs, which gives you the ability to mount a unix filesystem in the MerkleDAG and on that one, you can add all the properties a file would have in a unix filesytem
<daviddias>
but to get free dedup
<daviddias>
you can always have a Metadata MerkleDAG node that points to the Data MerkleDAG node
<daviddias>
so if two persons added the same file in different machines, to a unix fs mounted on IPFS
<daviddias>
then the only different thing would be the metadata MerkleDAG node
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping created feat/provide-many (+1 new commit): http://git.io/vBK4D
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feat/provide-many 71ab52e Jeromy: first pass at provide many mechanism...
<computerfreak668>
ok, thanks for the details ;)
<Confiks>
daviddias, dignifiedquire: About resourcefulness of ipfs.org; when I look at the examples now, there isn't really a canonical way to boot a go-ipfs node and create objects.
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping opened pull request #2011: first pass at provide many mechanism (dev0.4.0...feat/provide-many) http://git.io/vBKBk
<computerfreak668>
we had a paradoxon today: my attempt was to find a way to sync a folder between two or more. So first ipfs name publish it (with the id) , than transfer private-key to another os and run daemon with the same id :D
<Confiks>
Would you know other examples which spawn a go-ipfs node via the API and create DAG objects? (ipfs object put)
<daviddias>
Confiks: I'll defer that question to whyrusleeping as he will know what are the plans, now that we have https://github.com/whyrusleeping/gx
<Confiks>
It shows you how to directly communicate with other peers. It would follow quite logically that when you use the API to directly communicate with a peer, you would also want to insert objects using the same API.
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<whyrusleeping>
Confiks: yeah, we don't have many examples of that yet
<whyrusleeping>
we should, but I havent gotten the time to sit down and write some
<Confiks>
I could make an example, but I don't see any applications using it yet too. Do you know of any?
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: I found a bug while doing the conversion
<ion>
whyrusleeping: Thoughts about bitswap: BitTorrent clients generally ask a single peer for a given block at a time. Perhaps go-ipfs could start by telling only one of the providers about wanting any given object in the wantlist and only begin to ask others for the same object when it seems like the providers so far aren’t managing to send anything at a reasonable rate.
<ion>
Providers for the chunks of the same file would end up getting kind of sharded views of the actual wantlist in the beginning.
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs-api] Dignifiedquire pushed 1 new commit to chai: http://git.io/vBKuP
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: done the conversion but tests fail, cause I found a bug
<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: if you know how, please take a look if you can fix quickly, going to bed now
<daviddias>
I'll take a look at tomorrow morning :)
<daviddias>
Have a good one!
<dignifiedquire>
thanks you too
<dignifiedquire>
and if it makes you happy, go add those requires :P
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<Confiks>
whyrusleeping: I'm reading gx/gxutil/pm.go, and I see that you are using fallback-ipfs shell (named as pm.shell) to communicate with a ipfs daemon.
<Confiks>
Is that a recommended way to build applications on top of ipfs?
<Confiks>
Maybe "applications" is a bit to broad. Instead: small cli applications written in go.
<whyrusleeping>
Confiks: everything in gx is rather experimental right now, i dont know if i would recommend it as a shining example of 'the right way' to do things
<whyrusleeping>
but the fallback shell, or the 'go-ipfs-api' is the right way to do it i think
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<Confiks>
Alright, thanks. So that would be a call to call to NewObject and Patch.
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] whyrusleeping pushed 1 new commit to feat/provide-many: http://git.io/vBK2D
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feat/provide-many 6c42ba3 Jeromy: make the rest of the code work with provideMany...
<whyrusleeping>
Confiks: yeap!
<whyrusleeping>
the 'fallback shell' is going to be renamed, and moved elsewhere
<whyrusleeping>
but thats going to be the interface we push for people to use
<Confiks>
But I realize that using this API you can't directly communicate with another peer.
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<whyrusleeping>
nope, not in the same way as that service example
<whyrusleeping>
if you let me know what you'd like to see, i can whip up a quick example
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<Confiks>
When building a protocol on top of IPFS, you can create blocks all you want. But you need some way in which to communicate the existence and identity of blocks. (unless you use IPNS, but that's too hairy for me right now)
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<Confiks>
If the 'Roll your own ipfs' example continued, inserted an object, would send the hash of that object to the other peer via /app/whyareusleeping, and the peer would get the object.
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