<multivac>
[WIKIPEDIA] Distributed hash table#Examples | "A distributed hash table (DHT) is a class of a decentralized distributed system that provides a lookup service similar to a hash table: (key, value) pairs are stored in a DHT, and any participating node can efficiently retrieve the value associated with a given key. Responsibility for maintaining the..."
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<r0kk3rz>
dignifiedquire: `i think the IPFS wikipedia page could do with a bit more love too
<dignifiedquire>
r0kk3rz: yes
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<Kubuxu>
daviddias: all logos are the same over there, it is just division for rasters and vector (where rasters are mostly generated from the vector).
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<Kubuxu>
lgierth: what if the gateway was to be extracted out of ipfs same way fuse is planned to. With Unix socket API it wouldn't really be that much slower. (also either I have a bit of a problem understanding gateway code or it is a bit of a mess).
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu closed pull request #2737: Move backoff to gx from Godeps (master...feature/backoff-to-gx) https://git.io/vrBmD
<JJJollyjim>
I'm struggling to understand: what protocol does 4001 speak?
<cehteh>
btw how does ipfs address missing/lost blocks? not at all yet?
<Kubuxu>
what do you mean lost?
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu pushed 2 new commits to feature/hamming-to-gx: https://git.io/vrR4j
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/hamming-to-gx c5e361a Jakub Sztandera: Remove goautogen from Godeps.json...
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/hamming-to-gx f96bf86 Jakub Sztandera: Move proquint from Godeps to gx...
<Kubuxu>
The block is addressed by its hash, if you loose the hash you will have hard time retrieving the block but you can hash given block to find out its hash.
<cehteh>
as long the block is available somewhere
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<cehteh>
nodes may go offline or disappear permanently, disks go out for lunch etc
<Kubuxu>
Then you can't resolve given block, default timeout for resolution is long but you can set it manually.
<cehteh>
ok
<cehteh>
me thinks about freenet, which does it a bit on the bloating side
<cehteh>
but its also somewhat different on what goals ipfs has in mind
<cehteh>
also offs had some nice idea, xoring blocks, there to do some doubtful legalese loophole, but such may also be used to keep more blocks alive
<cehteh>
http://offsystem.sourceforge.net/ fyi .. iirc the project is dead meanwhile, but the idea adds some redundancy which might be benefitful for ipfs as well
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu pushed 1 new commit to feature/hamming-to-gx: https://git.io/vrRRm
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/hamming-to-gx e1b6e3d Jakub Sztandera: Remove blowfish from Godeps.json...
<Kubuxu>
cehteh: ipfs already does block reusing and deduplication
<Kubuxu>
A gig of zeros added to ipfs is few MB long.
<Kubuxu>
KB
<cehteh>
i know
<Kubuxu>
Or even less.
<Kubuxu>
And I don't see how the OFF schema can save space.
<cehteh>
merkle dags are not yet recursive? one merkle dag addressing another for its content? :D
<cehteh>
not saving space, adding redundancy/recoverablility
<Kubuxu>
They can address others, they can't address their parents.
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<cehteh>
space isnt all... it would be nice if even less popular files can be retrieved easier, from what it feels now, thats not the case yet, if no one pinned it (or it got offline) then less popular files/blocks will be swept away pretty soonish
<cehteh>
and considering the file is lost when even a single block cant be retrieved thats a bit unfortunate
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<keks>
i think it's difficult to store data for other people without making yourself subject to spamming
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<keks>
but I guess that problem is addressed by filecoin
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<cehteh>
depends .. the problem is not the 'storing' but when other people can push something
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<cehteh>
imo thats a problem in tahoe, one can pretty easily spam it, push comelete hidden roots to everyone else
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<cehteh>
pushing some short lived announcements would be nice, and then let everyone decide by himself if he wants to pull/cache things
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<keks>
how should a computer decide whether or not the data should be kept?
<keks>
as in pulled/cached
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<cehteh>
net of trust?
<cehteh>
for example .. also other rules
<cehteh>
as long its not arbitary its ok
<keks>
web of trust is great, but afaik IPFS does not have such a thing. you could write software atop of scuttlebot though, that waits for requests to cache
<cehteh>
case here is i would like ipfs as filesystem on all computers and if someone edits something it should be distributed, at least to my own servers
<cehteh>
preferably automatically
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<cehteh>
i know ipfs lacks that currently
<cehteh>
but i hope eventually such things get fleshed out
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<keks>
personally, I like the idea of ipfs doing what it's good at and let other tools care about the web of trust, and then let everything cooperate to create something awesome
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<cehteh>
yes, these things should be on top of a basic ipfs layer
<keks>
and when it comes to web of trust, I like the approach of scuttlebot (https://scuttlebot.io/)
<cehteh>
but i think some push notification may become necessary onthe ipfs layer, i am not much into it yet, but i guess the p2p network already has such facilities (how are peers announced, discovered?)
<keks>
sure, you can send messages between peers. I am not into the protocol details of ipfs yet, but I am not sure it's wise to shove too much functionality in there.
<cehteh>
i agree .. the absolute minimum would be the best
<cehteh>
but some functionality may require pushing at least some announcements around, of course not long lived block data, that always needs to be pulled
<ansuz>
afaik the diff between scuttlebot and ipfs is scuttlebot has an auth layer
<ansuz>
you need to generate an 'invite'
<ansuz>
which is both a barrier to entry and a control factor, if you're interested in that kind of thing
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<Kubuxu>
cehteh: there is pubsub model and my friend is working an direct communication using IPFS corenet.
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: yeah the gateway can be extracted -- and it *is* messy
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<Kubuxu>
Restful API would also be nice... Problem is every thing is a lot of work.
<lgierth>
the api is rpc so that it mirrors the cli as closely as possible
<lgierth>
the gateway will be beautifully restful though
<Kubuxu>
There is nothing that prevents making a bit limited but restful layer on top of it.
<Kubuxu>
As I am planning to write the Unix sockets API, I am thinking what to do with windoes, named pipe?
<Kubuxu>
But where to store it
<Kubuxu>
?
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<Kubuxu>
Also Unix socket location for user wide API.
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<lgierth>
daviddias: whyrusleeping: so if the /ws bootstrappers aren't gonna be go-ipfs, i assume they're gonna be js-ipfs?
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<lgierth>
Kubuxu: sure! but then do we want to maintain two versions of the same api?
<Kubuxu>
It isn't the same API, one would slowly become RPC API (not CLI API) and would be lower lever, and HTTP would have its RESTful API for ease of website dev. From another side we have js-ipfs-api ..
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<lgierth>
oh yeah i didn't mean the socket api
<lgierth>
i meant rpc api vs. restful api
<lgierth>
or i figure the cli would use the socket api too?
<Kubuxu>
Yeah, probably.
<Kubuxu>
The cli enforcing API design is a bit problematic I would say.
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<dignifiedquire>
daviddias: are you around?
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<Magik6k>
Kubuxu, windows has separate weird hidden filesystem for named pipes
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] RichardLitt created feature/readme-language-touch-up (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vrRhU
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/readme-language-touch-up 2511d8e Richard Littauer: Touch up language a bit...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] RichardLitt opened pull request #2741: Touch up language a bit (master...feature/readme-language-touch-up) https://git.io/vrRhk
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<dignifiedquire>
voxelot: can you ping me when you are awake and alive :)
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<baccenfutter>
jbenet: recap... you suggested to pull deps directory from IPFS. we are currently thinking through this approach and a question came up. when you add deps to IPFS, do you change them at all or do you take them directlry from upstream, and basically just pin it to a revision?
<Kubuxu>
baccenfutter: we just basically pin them, we are using our own package manager, gx
<Kubuxu>
which does most of the heavy lifting
<baccenfutter>
gx is awesome! we've already been through this. we do not want to use gx. we want to manager deps ourselves. jbenet stated that this should be generally no problem, as long as we pull our deps directly from IPFS to ensure to have identical versions in the dep-tree.
<lgierth>
yep that sounds about right
<voxelot>
dignifiedquire: sup, just getting caught up with all the comments/emails over night
<voxelot>
busy day today wooo
<dignifiedquire>
voxelot: :)
<dignifiedquire>
voxelot: we need to ship the files stuff, and I'm your dedicated handler to make it happen :)
<noffle>
morning!
<voxelot>
no problem! had a lot of errand to do yesterday but today is all files
<voxelot>
morning noffle!
<lgierth>
o/
<Kubuxu>
Also I got a fix for gx project not being got get'able - every one has to run ipfs on FUSE and do `ls -s /ipfs $GOPATH/gx/ipfs`
<noffle>
Kubuxu: ha, cool hack
<Kubuxu>
It isn't a hack, it is the most legit soltuion.
<noffle>
(assuming s/ls/ln)
<Kubuxu>
ahh
<Kubuxu>
shh :p
<noffle>
oh I mean hack in the positive sense :)
<noffle>
it's a clever solution
<lgierth>
falls apart if there's no ipfs node with fuse support ;)
<noffle>
yeah. Fuse is also spotty on osx I hear
<dignifiedquire>
voxelot: great, let me know if you need help, review or anything else
<Kubuxu>
It is spotty on Linux too :p At least ipfs FUSE
<voxelot>
woo!, my own personal dignifiedquire today :D
<dignifiedquire>
:D
<daviddias>
morning voxelot @ :)
<daviddias>
s/@/!
<daviddias>
morning noffle ! :)
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<noffle>
daviddias: heya!
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<daviddias>
whyrusleeping: awake yet?
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<lgierth>
daviddias: hey -- are we still gonna run /ws bootstrappers? i suppose we will?
<daviddias>
I hope so, some nodes with ws and secio disabled
<daviddias>
under ws.i.ipfs.io
<daviddias>
and that don't connect to the rest of the network
<lgierth>
no i.
<lgierth>
daviddias: ok but i figure that'll be js-ipfs nodes?
<lgierth>
the go-ipfs blockers look more hefty than it sounded on monday
<lgierth>
ah slack
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<richardlitt>
chriscool: Hey! Can you help with some sharness testing?
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu created feature/Options-Default-2702 (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vr0ES
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/Options-Default-2702 7034231 Jakub Sztandera: Allow to specify where to put default options in option desciption...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu opened pull request #2744: Allow to specify where to put default options in option desciption (master...feature/Options-Default-2702) https://git.io/vr0Ed
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<ipfsbot>
[js-ipfs] diasdavid created greenkeeper-readable-stream-2.1.4 (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vr0rj
<ipfsbot>
js-ipfs/greenkeeper-readable-stream-2.1.4 9c9dd66 greenkeeperio-bot: chore(package): update readable-stream to version 2.1.4...
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<vijayee>
will ipfs be presenting at the Decentralized Web Summit?
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<A124>
Centralized web is bull. 80% of my non-life problems are data. So I hope so xD
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<vijayee>
I like the way you phrased that A124. I detect some feelings
<A124>
Well, a car can hit you still, but yeah. Featured neocities website.
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<A124>
Doing something today is hard, it's all about money and competition and such. Lucky Vint had none at that tme pretty much. I still think about adoption psychology of stuff.
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<vijayee>
thanks whyursleeping, I think I may be in attendance
<A124>
Except developers and people in the tech the world and especially IT is less organized that it was back in days.
<A124>
whyrusleeping Any info if there will be stream/recording?
<A124>
... you know, for us Europeans.
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<whyrusleeping>
A124: i have no idea. it probably willl be
<vijayee>
I wonder if they'll let me speak
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<Kubuxu>
please do, I have to do something instead of learning to exams
<vijayee>
I'd like to talk about what I been mad sciencin'
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<A124>
Want to hear Vint on the topic.
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<vijayee>
Whoa, Vint Cerf looks a lot like Ben Bernanke
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<dignifiedquire>
whyrusleeping: can you do me a favor?
<whyrusleeping>
maybe
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<dignifiedquire>
I need from go-libp2p-crypto some keys in proto format and a stretched key to test compat with js
<dignifiedquire>
if you could generate those for me that'd be awesome
<Kubuxu>
ooOo, teamcity failed as the only one
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu force-pushed feature/add-default-to-files from 20492c6 to b9fdd89: https://git.io/vrsss
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/add-default-to-files b9fdd89 Richard Littauer: Added Default logic to `files` cmd...
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu force-pushed feature/add-default-to-files from b9fdd89 to 791b2cc: https://git.io/vrsss
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/add-default-to-files 791b2cc Jakub Sztandera: Added Default logic to `files` cmd...
<Kubuxu>
richardlitt: I took over your PR, I hope you don't mind.
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/add-defaults-to-add 45836c4 Stephen Whitmore: marks dht query as known breakage for now...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu force-pushed feature/add-defaults-to-add from 44fa353 to 3d6ead0: https://git.io/vrTl9
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/add-defaults-to-add 3d6ead0 Richard Littauer: Add Defaults to `ipfs add`...
<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu force-pushed feature/add-defaults-to-add from 3d6ead0 to 9183b5e: https://git.io/vrTl9
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/feature/add-defaults-to-add 9183b5e Richard Littauer: Add Defaults to `ipfs add`...
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<ipfsbot>
[go-ipfs] Kubuxu force-pushed w/fix/logwriter-stall from ef348f2 to d9ac4a4: https://git.io/vwsB9
<ipfsbot>
go-ipfs/w/fix/logwriter-stall d9ac4a4 rht: Close errnotifier chan on err...
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