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<darkdrgn2k[m]>
so how does ipfs work? It reachest out to some boot strapped servers
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
and it creates the swarms from there?
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<Icefoz>
darkdrgn2k[m]: Yeah basically.
<JCaesar>
That's not "how ipfs works", but it is how the swarm is initialized, yes.
<Icefoz>
^
<JCaesar>
You can create a private swarm if you want to, though.
<Icefoz>
"how it works" is much like a more flexible BitTorrent.
<engdesart>
darkdrgn2k[m]: IIRC, the swarm reaches out to the nodes in the bootstrap list, and from there can discover other nodes connected to it and connect to them. It can also discover and connect to nodes on the local network too.
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<darkdrgn2k[m]>
so by adding a node that exists on two differnt networks will that bridge it?
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
ie cjdns
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<darkdrgn2k[m]>
ipfs swarm peers is showing a bunch of nodes now all on cjdns
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<darkdrgn2k[m]>
so do ipfs swarms bridge across the two differt networks?
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
ie
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
node1 ------ node2 ------ node 3
<darkdrgn2k[m]>
will node 3 get content from node 1 via node 2
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<engdesart>
darkdrgn2k[m]: They can pull content across them, so if node1 requests a hash and is connected to other nodes like node 2, and if node2 doesn't have it, node2 will reach out to other nodes like node3. If node3 has it, then it will be passed across node2 to node1. If node3 doesn't have it, then they will have to resolve that somehow, probably after a certain number of hops just echoing back up the chain that nothing was found.
<engdesart>
Also, there's something going on with nodes announcing hashes (and blocks) as they're "uploaded". The nodes any given node is connected to remembers that "node x says it has this hash" until it's cleared by garbage collection.
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<opal>
what do you guys think about bittorrent with protocol extensions? is there anything in ipfs that BT cannot feasibly do?
<opal>
i'm asking because BT has the benefit of being a mature protocol with many programs written around it
<opal>
programs in different languages, in fact
<opal>
ipfs so far has the reference golang implementation and a node impl
<opal>
both which arent very performant as it stands
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<opal>
and i'm also asking because it seems like the wheel wouldnt need to be reinvented if BT has a good enough time dealing with any issues ipfs attempts to address
<opal>
well, i shouldnt comment about ipfs' js performance because i havent tried that version
<opal>
but i imagine it would be lagging a bit behind the reference impl at least
<r0kk3rz>
i imagine you could feasably take most of the ideas from IPFS and implement them in bittorrent
<opal>
i think what i should be asking is this: why go out and develop ipfs when BT can be extended?
<opal>
i dont think ive seen an explanation about this
<opal>
most people talk about ipfs as its own entity without considering whether it should have been implemented as BT extensions
<r0kk3rz>
such is the way of the open source world :)
<opal>
lol
<opal>
i realise ipfs is supposed to allow for a "permanent web" and better integration into the filesys/web browser, but those are just UX features and could be implemented with a custom client that speaks BT instead of IPFS
<r0kk3rz>
if you want to build such a thing go ahead
<opal>
no i know, but i was just asking if anyone had more insight than me on the issue
<r0kk3rz>
i remember seeing some other such things mostly based upon bittorrent i think
<lgierth>
2 big things that BT can't do is linking seamlessly between torrents
<opal>
like if ipfs addressed real issues BT had
<r0kk3rz>
ipfs is by no means the only project in this space
<lgierth>
and with IPLD, we can even link across different types of data structures
<lgierth>
e.g. link from an IPFS thing to an ethereum transaction, which links to a git commit
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<lgierth>
which links to a torrent file
<lgierth>
etc.
<opal>
hm
<opal>
reading ipld.io right now
<lgierth>
IPLD lets us address and move objects from virtually all content-addressed systems out there
<r0kk3rz>
to me, in many ways ipfs is a research project, it might not end up being the thing everyone uses
<r0kk3rz>
but theres a lot of good ideas here
<opal>
that's a fair way to put it
<lgierth>
ipfs is the project that puts the most work into interopability ;)
<opal>
looking at the git example now: $ git clone ipld::2347e110c29742a1783134ef45f5bff58b29e40e
<opal>
i'm guessing the git repo would exist on ipfs?
<opal>
and as for blockchains with bitcoin/eth, would the entire blockchain exist on ipfs ready to be addressed in this fashion, or what?
<opal>
still slightly struggling to understand the benefit to this, sorry
<lgierth>
opal: yeah it fetches the git repo right out of ipfs -- and the git objects exist in ipfs with their original hashes
<opal>
ok
<lgierth>
ipfs would be what stores and moves data for the systems on top
<lgierth>
you can embed ipfs into your application, or speak to an ipfs node's api, or speak just to the api at ipfs.io
<lgierth>
or you can use just the networking stack (libp2p)
<lgierth>
for example a lot of ethereum projects (and ethereum itself) are working on using libp2p for their networking needs, and apart from the utility they get from that itself, they also hook into the same big network of all the applications out there that use libp2p (which is not just ipfs)
<opal>
"git objects exist in ipfs with their original hashes" meaning each commit is /ipfs/{hash}, correct? IPLD allows someone to get an index of all these hashes that relate to a specific repo? how does this compare to IPNS doing the same thing?
<opal>
if this technology all works well with all the issues addressed, im totally for it lol
<opal>
just a bit of a struggle wrapping my head around it and i feel like others feel the same way
<lgierth>
IPLD is "just" a way of addressing the objects (and resolving links between them) from all kinds of content-addressed systems in a generalized way
<lgierth>
IPFS stores and moves data that adheres to IPLD
<r0kk3rz>
opal: fwiw you could also ask the dat guys why they didnt base themselves off bittorrent either :)
<opal>
dat?
<lgierth>
datproject.org
<opal>
oh i remember this, doesnt stick out as much in my head though
<lgierth>
in fact dat's data structures could be moved and stored with IPFS as well, keeping the original hashes/addresses, thanks to ild
<lgierth>
*ipld
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<lgierth>
about the git/ipnd question -- the only thing you need to clone a repo is its top-level hash. you could "hide" that hash behind IPNS to get a stable name, yes - not strictly neccessary though
<lgierth>
without the IPNS bit, the repo's top-level hash changes anytime a commit is added
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<opal>
yeah thats what i thought
<lgierth>
(and the old top-level hash keeps pointing to the older snapshot)
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<opal>
and the toplevel hash only needs to refer to the other files, not duplicate all of them, right?
<opal>
so only new commits/objects (and the index itself) is added to the network
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<lgierth>
yeah
<lgierth>
and it doesn't directly refer to files
<lgierth>
it refers to the original git data structures as they're stored in .git/
<opal>
yeah i'm aware
<opal>
bare git repo
<lgierth>
yeah :)
<opal>
that much i know lmao
<lgierth>
it still blows my mind sometimes -- but it needs so much more polish
<opal>
i love git, i almost love bitcoin (aside from the future scalability of it, and the constant investment influence)
<opal>
i know about and/or use i2p, tor, freenet, so it's always good to figure out what's the best step moving forward
<lgierth>
i read somewhere recently that bitcoin has had 5 nines of uptime since its start
<opal>
see which technologies i should focus more time into advocating
<lgierth>
which is really pretty incredible
<opal>
yeah i use bitcoin myself to pay for my servers and domains lol
<opal>
it's like online cash for me
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<opal>
i enjoy paying with cash in real life, and i like that there's now an option to do it online
<lol-md5>
if only the consensus didn't ultimately cost so much electricity
<opal>
haha
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<r0kk3rz>
id like to see how that 5 nines was calculated
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<ToxicFrog>
Also, five nines "uptime" doesn't do much good if it can only handle single-digit QPS globally
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<Icefoz>
Uptime is a somewhat nebulous concept in distributed systems.
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<lgierth>
ToxicFrog: hehe yeah agreed
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<obo89>
So i have a question about how ipfs works at a core level. So i know IPFS splits data up into objects that are less than 256kb a piece. So could two completely different IPFS objects theoretically share the same 256kb object ?
<obo89>
I think that's how it works based on my understanding, but I'm going to be going over IPFS in a talk, and want to make sure I have my facts straight
<voker57>
obo89: no, any IPFS object is identified by hash of its chunk
<obo89>
sorry, let me clarify
<obo89>
could two head hashes, theorhetically have the same sub-object?
<obo89>
like say if two projects have the same npm library they install
<obo89>
and both projects are hosted by the same ipfs node
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<JCaesar>
whether its the same node doesnt play a role.
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<obo89>
so
<obo89>
if I have two projects that have the same child components
<obo89>
the child objects don't share the same hash?
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