stebalien changed the topic of #ipfs to: Heads Up: To talk, you need to register your nick! Announcements: go-ipfs 0.4.23 and js-ipfs 0.41 are out! Get them from dist.ipfs.io and npm respectively! | Also: #libp2p #ipfs-cluster #filecoin #ipfs-dev | IPFS, the InterPlanetary FileSystem: https://github.com/ipfs/ipfs | Logs: https://view.matrix.org/room/!yhqiEdqNjyPbxtUjzm:matrix.org/ | Forums: https://discuss.ipfs.io | Code of
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<postables[m]1>
yea
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<moinmoin>
cool
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<RubenKelevra>
<moinmoin "" I think IPFS has a way of expo"> `ipfs log level all debug`
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<swedneck>
why do i see 2 versions of the latest rc in `ipfs update versions`?
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<ZerXes>
ooh 0.5.0 RC2
<ZerXes>
hype
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<moinmoin>
Hi..so I recently learnt about the Storm malware...and I am not sure I understand how it is malicious. First for it to be downloaded on a node...it has to be requested. Therefore it is has a specific CID. So I am guessing the attacker would have to make a node request this indirectly...probably by embedding it in an html page for example...but the
<moinmoin>
next thing is, once it is on a node, how does it get "triggered" as far as.I know there is nothing in IPFS that leads to the "execution" of files
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<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
it seems to be used for C&C, not necessarily for spreading of the malware
<swedneck>
hmm, that article requires google AMP, i'm sorry but i'm not going to enable that to read the article
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<moinmoin>
swedneck sorry about that...but the malware seems to be called "Storm Malware" so I am sure if you google it you will find other refrences online
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
moinmoin: what is actually your question? :-)
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
how does it work?
<moinmoin>
if a node is infected...exactly how is it malicious to the host?
<moinmoin>
yeah basically how it works..
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
I didn't read the article about it, but basically, the host needs to be infected already and then it only reads the commands from the IPFS
<swedneck>
searching for it online only gives articles about an email virus from 2007
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
if it's just control and command, there is no difference for the malware between website and ipfs, except that ipfs is (probably) not possible to be taken down
<moinmoin>
control and command means it is used to command an attack on others?
<ZerXes>
swedneck: to slow :>
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
moinmoin: yeah, or basically any other commands for the computer
<ZerXes>
but yeah, it only uses IPFS for C2C traffic, not to infect hosts
<moinmoin>
so basically IPFS is used to deliver the payload to the host...and from the host other non IPFS victim can be attacked?
<ZerXes>
yeah. Typical botnets use IRC for C2C, the connect to a irc-server and a random channel where the auther sits and can send commands to all the bots
<ZerXes>
thats easy to find and block
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
the host to whom the payload is delivered can also basically be called "non IPFS host"
<ZerXes>
other C2C might rely on generated DNS-records
<moinmoin>
my understanding of C2C is to infect a node...and then be able to command it remotely...most often time to use it as part of a DDoS attack for instance
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
there is no relation to IPFS with regard to spread of the malware
<ZerXes>
this botnet connects over IPFS, which makes it very hard to track and block the C2C-traffic
<ZerXes>
yeah the malware infect by having the victom download a Powershell-script and execute it.
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
no, C&C is to operate already infected machine, which of course, can through some techniques infect other machines, but it's not exactly related to the actual spreading
<swedneck>
aha, i don't think it's really ipfs that's the key here
<moinmoin>
ok. to be clear with my question: my understanding of C2C is to infect a node...and then be able to command it remotely...most often time to use it as part of a DDoS attack for instance. This malware is delivered to IPFS nodes. Making it possible to use the IPNS node to launch other attack <----- Is this statement wrong? If so, where am I getting
<moinmoin>
it wrong?
<swedneck>
it seems to be libp2p
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<swedneck>
the pubsub part of libp2p in specific
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
moinmoin: yes, it's wrong, C&C is not related to infecting a node
<moinmoin>
ha. okay
<swedneck>
this seems to be just malware that happens to use libp2p to send commands to infected machines
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
swedneck: btw all your messages arrive twice
<moinmoin>
then I need to go look up the exact meaning of those terms...I thought Command and Control is basically infecting a node so as to be able to command/control it
<swedneck>
(and to update itself)
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<swedneck>
rjzxrscdjz: i know, it's some bug with the irc bridge
<ZerXes>
C2C = Command and Control. Its the 'system' the botowner uses to control all the hosts that have been infected. Its used to tell all the bots to DDoS a webpage for example
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<swedneck>
it might fix itself if i send a quit command but then i have to re-join all my freenode rooms and i just.. can't be bothered to do that..
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
swedneck: ah, ok
<moinmoin>
ZerXes ha I see...so in this case, the node would need to have been infected...by other means...just that IPFS (or libp2p as swedneck is suggesting) is now being used to co-ordinate infected nodes
<ZerXes>
yes
<moinmoin>
got it!
<moinmoin>
thanks
<ZerXes>
the nodes only get infected when they are somehow tricked to download and execute the malicious Powershell script which downloads and install the malware to the node
<ZerXes>
it then starts IPFS to "report in" to the commander
<moinmoin>
in theory, there is nothing stopping the use of IPFS itself to spread the malware right?
<swedneck>
hmm, i didn't read anything that says it relies on an existing node, seems to me that it directly uses libp2p libraries
<swedneck>
moinmoin: well your node will only download what you instruct it to
<moinmoin>
true...and i guess it can be embedded in an innocent looking content...just as malicious contents also gets downloaded via website or emails
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
then it might be question why not embed the malware itself instead of embeding something that will download the malware from ipfs
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<moinmoin>
well if an IPFS service a user already use is compromised, then it could be used as a vector to deliver the malware. I believe there is nothing technically stopping that from happening?
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
that's true, it definitely can be used like that
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<swedneck>
i can't see how ipfs would allow for easier malware spreading
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
I don't think it's about easier malware spreading, but about if that's possible
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<moinmoin>
swedneck i am not implying though that IPFS makes it easier...just that it is possible to use IPFS to spread malware just as much as it is possible via other means
<moinmoin>
and there is nothing specific about IPFS that makes it harder
<swedneck>
actually it should be at least marginally more difficult to spread malware via ipfs, presuming people have to manually download it to be infected
<moinmoin>
well people generally don't manually download malware...they are always tricked to doing so
<swedneck>
since an ipfs address is its own checksum
<swedneck>
you're not gonna try to download Qmfoobar, but actually get Qmbarbaz
<it-xp[m]>
<swedneck "actually it should be at least m"> or it can be downloaded for example by IPFS hosted site?
<moinmoin>
but again...the same thing applies to other "traditional" ways people get tricked online.
<moinmoin>
They want google.com, but they used goolge.com
<swedneck>
it-xp: you replied to the wrong account, also not sure what you mean by "it can be downloaded by ipfs hosted site"
<moinmoin>
people don't see a button that says "Hey, here is a malware for you! The best you ever see today...click to get yours"
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
swedneck: I think you are assuming that the running malware would be trying to download the same piece of malware from ipfs without going through some kind of trampoline
<swedneck>
rjzxrscdjz: all i'm assuming is that people still have to manually download the malware
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
just like with any other way of downloading the malware
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<swedneck>
instead of it somehow exploiting the DHT to infect other nodes
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
I don't think there is any reason why it would be more difficult with ipfs than with e.g. web
<swedneck>
rjzxrscdjz: it's at least more difficult in that you can't hijack downloads like with http
<swedneck>
of course, this is also solved with https
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<it-xp[m]>
ServiceWorker cashed content, as I understand, can be synced with local IPFS gateway? so, when site loaded to browser, can it potentially contains malware files?
<swedneck>
i'm unsure
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
it-xp: everything can contain malware, either as some random executable that you need to download and manually run, or as some exploit that will exploit the application it is running in. Everything that is processing any kind of data is potential target of malware and any piece of data can be malware
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
so basically if you are asking if something can contain malware, there is very little situations when the answer can be no
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
I actually think there is no such situation
<it-xp[m]>
Yes, but typically sites run in safe maner in the sandbox, but if we are sync ServiceWorker cash with local gateway, it seems we are unsandbox files within
<it-xp[m]>
* Yes, but typically sites run in safe maner in the sandbox, but if we are sync ServiceWorker cache with local gateway, it seems we are unsandbox files within
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<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
the sandbox itself can be target of malware and there is no reason to believe that some particular malware wouldn't take some particular sandbox into account
<rjzxrscdjz[m]>
but yeah, I don't know how the ServiceWorker cache works, so I can't answer that particular question
<moinmoin>
it-xp[m] I am interested in your ServiceWorker case...you are saying ServiceWorker caches content? But where will that content come from? Won't it be from IPFS itself?
<it-xp[m]>
I'm about case, when IPFS node on the picture is local (127.0.0.1)
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<it-xp[m]>
when site with malware, loaded from outside IPFS node and stored in ServiceWorker cach, which synced with local node
<it-xp[m]>
* when site with malware, loaded from outside IPFS node and stored in ServiceWorker cache, which synced with local node
<it-xp[m]>
seems like a doorway for malware to user PC
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<it-xp[m]>
* potentially doorway
<moinmoin>
if I understand correctly. This project allows doing programmatically what happens whenever I use my local http gateway (or any other gateway). Because if I do http://localhost:8080/ipfs/hash -> this creates an HTTP response for a CID. which is basically the description of that library "Creates an HTTP response from an IPFS Hash"
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<it-xp[m]>
I mean, any actions, which initiate content loading from browser through 127.0.0.1 potentially unsecure, because its cause to hide what files appears on local node, because its loads by webpage, instead user
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<swedneck>
i know when visiting sites that want to access my node i've seen prompts asking me if i want to allow it
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<it-xp[m]>
browser request local node, which redirect request to others, founded content stored on local node and then loads to webpage, but it is not a sandboxed store
<swedneck>
this is with ipfs-companion installed
<moinmoin>
yeah. I think I mentioned something similar. Where I said it might be possible to use a web site hosted on IPFS to load malicious content. I did not know the exact mechanism but i was thinking of. javascript code that would execute and do the loading underneath.
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<moinmoin>
I think something like ipfs-http-response would make that easier to write
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<it-xp[m]>
I think its have a sense to add sandboxed (isolated from OS) foulder on the local gateway for untrusted content (for make browser operations through local gw more safer way)
<it-xp[m]>
* I think its have a sense to add sandboxed (isolated from OS) foulder on the local gateway for untrusted content (for make browser operations through local gw more safe way)
<it-xp[m]>
* I think its have a sense to add sandboxed (isolated from OS) folder on the local gateway for untrusted content (for make browser operations through local gw more safe way)
<it-xp[m]>
* I think its have a sense to add sandboxed (isolated from OS) folder on the local gateway for untrusted content (for make browser operations through local gw more safe)
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<TraderOne[m]>
problem with video sites using ipfs for hosting files is that most people do not bother to watch whole video, so you can watch about first 30% because rest disapeared from IPFS.
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<moinmoin>
How do you mean "disapeared from IPFS" ?
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<ZerXes>
no one downloaded the whole video so no one have the last chunks of the video avaible to others in IPFS
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<swedneck>
..why wouldn't there be some permanent seed?
<swedneck>
if you want people to view your videos, don't stop seeding them
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<moinmoin>
Seems like even with p2p network like IPFS...you can't do away with the notion of a "server"
<moinmoin>
it might be called a "permanent seed"...but from where I stand they do look similar to "servers"
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<makeworld>
I just posted this comment, I'm not sure if that was the right place for it. If it's not we can talk about it here I guess
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<swedneck>
well no, the permanent seed is just insurance
<swedneck>
you can have any amount of permanent seeds, they're just peers that don't stop seeding
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<TraderOne[m]>
It would definitively helped if gc was less brutal. For example deleting not pinned blocks randomly until low watermark is reached
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<lordcirth>
Trying to build rc2, and just like rc1, I get "build ./coverage/main: cannot find module for path ./coverage/main"
<TraderOne[m]>
It's not ideal for video site depending on viewers seeding to do such brutal cleaning
<lordcirth>
Do I need to disable building coverage?
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<nickdex[m]>
For past 2-3 days I noticed that public gateways are timing out for my ipfs and ipns addresses. Co-incidentally for this time period there was no activity (i had been working daily on data updates before).
<nickdex[m]>
Any thing I could do to check and fix this?
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<TraderOne[m]>
increase number of connections and run reprovider in shorter intervals
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<nickdex[m]>
<TraderOne[m] "increase number of connections a"> Ok, I had planned for that this weekend
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<moinmoin>
swedneck yeah...they keep on "serving" contents...and as you said, there are insurance that guarantees content is available....somewhat like a "server" does
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<swedneck>
So what would your solution be?
<swedneck>
Forcing others to store your data?
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<moinmoin>
No...no where did I mention anything about the solution. I was only observing that: "it seems like even with p2p network like IPFS...you can't do away with the notion of a "server. it might be called a "permanent seed"...but from where I stand they do look similar to "servers""
<moinmoin>
similar in the sense that: continuous availability of nodes (aka permanent seed) is required to guarantee availability of content
<moinmoin>
and these permanent seed, needs to be under your care, to be able to ensure that they are up and available 99.99% of the time...just as you do with your "servers"
<swedneck>
Well yes, but I find it disingenuous to compare the two when the circumstances are so vastly different
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<swedneck>
You can have any amount of "servers", that is a massive difference
<lordcirth>
Not needing to trust any individual server is a big improvement
<moinmoin>
The comparison arose based on what TraderOne[m] said: "problem with video sites using ipfs for hosting files is that most people do not bother to watch whole video, so you can watch about first 30% because rest disapeared from IPFS. no one downloaded the whole video so no one have the last chunks of the video avaible to others in IPFS"
<moinmoin>
keep that in mind
<moinmoin>
to prevent this "disappearing act" from happening, you need to maintain your own permanent seeds...that ensures your content will be "served" - and they need to be under your care to guarantee this insurance
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<lordcirth>
You could use a video player that preloads
<lordcirth>
This would increase the average % available on the network