phoe changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <http://cliki.net/> <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | SBCL 1.4.16, CMUCL 21b, ECL 16.1.3, CCL 1.11.5, ABCL 1.5.0
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<LdBeth> Good morning
<Josh_2> Mornin
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<libertyprime> hey guys. could someone please write a macro for me pretty please. I just want something that's analogous to this emacs lisp. http://ix.io/1LhA ie.e it should run some code but first pass the code through another function
<Bike> what are "run" and "try"
<libertyprime> run is pretty much apply
<libertyprime> try is an emacs builtin which runs the code but doesnt throw an exception
<libertyprime> if it fails
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<libertyprime> essentially i just need something which i can wrap around some syntax form and run a side effect using the raw code, then pass the raw code through transparently
<Bike> i mean, i don't really get this, if run is apply then the func is actually called at macroexpansion time, and not at r untime
<oni-on-ion> webpage ain't loading
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<oni-on-ion> also, may be better to ask in #emacs libertyprime
* oni-on-ion can't load the url
<libertyprime> oni-on-ion: http://pasterack.org/pastes/20681
<libertyprime> im curious how to write this in common lisp, also racket :P
<Bike> can you help me understand the macroexpansion/runtime thing here
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<oni-on-ion> 'run' has no meaning in emacs lisp stdlib
<libertyprime> sorry, run is here: http://pasterack.org/pastes/55941
<Bike> also, identity apparently only takes one argument.
<oni-on-ion> i think it does not matter what the meaning is. why are there two? it would work the same in common lisp as emacs lisp.
<Bike> okay, so your macro applys func at macroexpansion time. is it supposed to? that seems like a very strange thing to do
<libertyprime> i think im not good enough at emacs lisp to optimise it. all i know is it does the job for me. id just like to know how to achieve what i want, properly, in common lisp
<Bike> But I don't understand hwat job it is.
<Bike> Do you actually want it to call this function at macroexpansion time or no?
<Bike> I'm not asking about optimization, I'm asking what it is supposed to do.
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<oni-on-ion> nah, he clearly doesnt
<oni-on-ion> i dont think a macro is needed at all
<oni-on-ion> so if func is not supplied, it becomes identity
<oni-on-ion> run just wraps apply...
<oni-on-ion> what i do not get is why there are two references to identity
<Bike> yeah that really doesn't make sense. IDENTITY only takes one argument but it'll get a whole bunch of them here.
<libertyprime> identity is used in 2 different ways here. when i macro expand the sideeffect function, i could expand it into a (progn) or an (identity), identity is able to handle the case where the body expands into a literal string, say
<oni-on-ion> oh! i think it should be `(try (run func ,@body) nil) ...
<oni-on-ion> what is 'try' catching otherwise ?
<Bike> i just tried it in my emacs: (identity 4 5) is an error.
<Bike> so if you ww
<libertyprime> try caches the case where an identifier is provided but it hasnt been defined
<Bike> Sorry. So if you wrote (sideeffect anything 4 5) it would be an error.
<libertyprime> bike: that's alright. i havent found a way yet to handle multiple things. currently, it only handles a single argument, sexp or literal
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<Bike> Then why did you write &rest?
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<libertyprime> i initially tried to handle multiple arguments
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<Bike> It's not alright. In order to translate this for you we need to understand what it does, but what it does is incoherent.
<libertyprime> thats ok. i dont need your help bike
<libertyprime> if you cant handle a bit of incoherent code then you shouldnt be *helping* newer prammers
<Bike> That's why I'm asking you what it does, but you haven't answered my macroexpansion question. Do you understand the question?
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<libertyprime> sorry, id like it to happen at macro expansion time because if i were to say make a trace function, i want to see the expression before its evaluated
<libertyprime> sorry i lost my temper
<Bike> So what you want is a macro that takes an operator and a body. At macroexpansion time it applies the operator to the unevaluated body. The macroexpansion then runs the body while suppressing errors. Is that right?
<libertyprime> yup exactly
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<libertyprime> sigh sorry im sitting next to this girl i asked out -- demonstrating for computer science school
<libertyprime> and she has a boyfriend so im pretty on edge, trying to find a distraction
<pjb> (defmacro m (operator &body body) (apply operator body) `(ignore-errors (progn ,@body)))
<oni-on-ion> quick, cat pics! memes!
<Bike> (defmacro sideffect (operator &rest body) (when operator (apply operator body)) `(ignore-errors ,@body)) (sideeffect print (error "hey")) => prints (error "hey") at macroexpansion time, then returns NIL, #<SIMPLE-ERROR>
<Bike> in general you should avoid side effects at macro expansion time, though, since the implementation can macroexpand things as many times as it feels like
<pjb> Bike: you didn't say an operator or nil.
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<libertyprime> sitting next to tihs girl is pretty much a sideeffect
<libertyprime> thanks for help
<Josh_2> oof
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<abarbosa> lol
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
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<oni-on-ion> gm!
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<abarbosa> gn
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<beach> Sometimes the Common Lisp HyperSpec is not very precise.
<beach> clhs get-setf-expansion
<beach> Take that one for instance.
<beach> Look at the Notes.
<beach> Does that mean that get-setf-expansion always returns something useful?
<beach> Or does it mean that if get-setf-expansion does not return anything useful, then the SETF macro itself returns (SETF F)?
<beach> Note to self: Improve the specification of GET-SETF-EXPANSION in WSCL.
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<Bike> i don't think any implementations don't have the default be returned by get-setf-expansion, at least.
<beach> I am willing to believe that.
<Bike> i mean, if you're worried about that in addition to the imprecision
<beach> I am not worried about it.
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<oni-on-ion> beach, i think that is exactly what it means
<beach> oni-on-ion: Thanks a lot... since I gave two different interpretations.
<oni-on-ion> okay, i think they are the same thing
<beach> They are not.
<oni-on-ion> i suppose that depends what you mean by 'useful
<Bike> in the other case, get-setf-expansion would signal an error or return gibberish or something if the operator did not have a defined expansion.
<beach> Yes.
<Bike> a specially defined expansion*
<oni-on-ion> the default is (setf f) , is that an error ?
<beach> oni-on-ion: The default EXPANSION is that.
<beach> But it says nothing about what get-setf-expansion does if there is no expander.
<beach> oni-on-ion: GET-SETF-EXPANSION does not return (SETF F).
<beach> oni-on-ion: So the question is what GET-SETF-EXPANSION returns for the place (F ...).
<beach> But it doesn't matter.
<oni-on-ion> but that is what it says: ' Any compound form is a valid place, since any compound form whose operator f has no setf expander are expanded into a call to (setf f). ' --- if no expander.. ?
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<beach> oni-on-ion: Suppose you are implementing the specification. What do you return from GET-SETF-EXPANSION, if it is given a place (F ...) that does not have an expander associated with it?
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<oni-on-ion> (setq 'f #:NEW1)
<beach> That looks like a single value, rather than the 5 values you are supposed to return.
<beach> And it looks wrong too.
<oni-on-ion> NIL NIL (#:NEW1) (SETQ F #:NEW1) F
<beach> oni-on-ion: An where in the Common Lisp HyperSpec did you find this?
<beach> oni-on-ion: Don't tell me you just tried it out in one implementation.
<oni-on-ion> im experimenting in sbcl about it
<oni-on-ion> =(
<beach> That's not how specifications work.
<mfiano> oni-on-ion: It's a recurring problem that you reply nonsense and disrupt otherwise constructive conversations. please just stop.
<oni-on-ion> but.. defaulting to setq seems to make sense
<beach> mfiano: I see. I should be quiet then.
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<oni-on-ion> whoa.. and i am actually trying to learn this stuff. way to shame someone publically ! now what do i do? never talk? or think that everything i say is disruptive and destructive? i will understand if my words disturb you but it is not fair to myself or others to make something personal like this. why have you not told me earlier something like this??
<oni-on-ion> does everyone really think i am always a fool, and nonsense ? i am not sure what i am supposed to do or think here.
<oni-on-ion> mfiano, in the meantime i will take this lightly and assume this is some carry-over from #lispgames and possibly a kind of personal issue with me you have not discussed or mentioned or hinted at. i would appreciate if you would discuss your problems with me, with just me personally. i will carry on as i was otherwise.
<oni-on-ion> i can't imagine this feels good for either of us right now, whatever it is. i can learn to talk smarter at least, i will tr.
<oni-on-ion> try*
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<mfiano> This has nothing to do with #lispgames, and more to do with all the complaints from multiple channels I've heard about you recently, but this is not the forum for that discussion, so that's all I have to say.
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<libertyprime> oni-on-ion is super helpful in all the cool chat rooms #haskell #lisp #emacs. oni-on-ion we love you. haters will hate
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<libertyprime> as a side note, my phone is locked in lost property, my car key is snapped like the shards of narsil. i didnt get the job, i didnt get the girl, she has a boyfriend. im a little on edge!
<libertyprime> we're all on edge. and irc is our happy place. dont forget that!
<no-defun-allowed> libertyprime: prolly should pick a different girl then
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<libertyprime> i talked to her. +5 . also, lasagne discovered in the oven. +1
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<no-defun-allowed> you still would have to be better than her bf. +most-negative-fixnum, and this isn't really a place for talking about relationships so i should shut up. +#c(0 #.most-positive-fixnum)
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<makomo> morning
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<moldybits> libertyprime: why do you want to print the expression at macroexpansion time, though? why not just have it print the expression right before it is evaluated? (progn (print 'expr) expr)
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<shka_> hello everyone
<shka_> is there a way to document slots in the structure?
<shka_> using docstrings, that is
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<beach> It doesn't look like it. But why would you want to do that? Slots are implementation details, so the documentation would be in comments, since it would be meant for the same person as the one reading the code.
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<libertyprime> moldybits: thanks, yeah that's probably what i was really after. cheers
<moldybits> and you can have a macro write that for you, of course.
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<shka_> beach: ok, so comments
<rjvehn> minion: registration, please?
<minion> The URL https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/users/sign_in?secret=5ec62421 will be valid until 13:30 UTC.
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<puchacz> hi, can Parenscript generate Javascript with async/await?
<puchacz> or modules?
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<jmercouris> does anyone have source code for this: https://common-lisp.net/project/closure/ ?
<jmercouris> I can't seem to check it out
<jmercouris> anyone know where I can get it?
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<jmercouris> oni-on-ion: thanks
<Bike> slots have a documentation option, but the reader doesn't seem to be in mop. hm
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