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<LdBeth>
not very interesting since they don’t use CLIM as html engine
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<White_Flame>
LdBeth: it does use CLIM, but not in the way you want?
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<White_Flame>
oh, or do you mean next-browser? yeah, that's a lisp wrapper around a browser engine
<White_Flame>
which I personally don't mind. HTML/CSS/JS is a massive undertaking with lots of legacy garbage to support, font rendering with all the features is not trivial, etc
<bexx>
imagine a browser without js
<bexx>
only lisp
<bexx>
wonderful
<White_Flame>
things that could have been
<White_Flame>
of course, see how far you can get with parenscript, or build something on webasm
<bexx>
you can use a lips to webasm?
<bexx>
*lisp
<White_Flame>
I presume something like clisp would be buildable on webasm. I haven't used ECL enough to know if it would be possible
<White_Flame>
(which would include runtime C generation -> webasm compilation)
<bexx>
that seems funny
* equwal
help
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<ck_>
''so poorly written that I could not take the authors seriously''
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<ck_>
Oh well, Dijkstra was a hardliner... he probably would fit in here extremely well, enjoying many disputes on the finer points of whatever topic came up.
<shrdlu68>
Speak of the Dijkstra, I happen to be reading one of his EWDs.
<shrdlu68>
ck_: Why do you call him a hardliner?
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<ck_>
shrdlu68: maybe not the best choice of words, but what I mean is the harshness I perceive in some of his statements. "/abolish/ the go to statement from all 'higher level' languages", for example
<ck_>
an absence of compromise. I hope you get my meaning.
<shrdlu68>
I do.
<LdBeth>
Humm
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<lukego>
So who's using ql2nix? I'm looking for a nice way to automate the (re)generation of the package list.
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<xristos>
lukego: you're back to doing CL ? :]
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<luis>
http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/m_case_.htm says that CASE's clauses are "selected by matching the test-key on the basis of its identity". And the Glossary suggests that two objects are _identical_ when they're "the same under EQ". However, I see that CASE in fact expands to EQL. What's that about?
<lukego>
xristos: I'm on holiday and have a hankering to hack some lisp. not sure if it will stick yet :-)
<xristos>
\o/
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<lukego>
I'm feeling a strange urge to do some "programs that write programs" kind of meta-programming. feels like some of the code I've been writing lately in e.g. C is morally more like object code than source code and maybe I should be generating more of it. probably a bad idea but that's what brings me back to "the best way to misuse a computer" :-)
<xristos>
fun! i want to use the (not exposed) SBCL assembler to generate Forth VMs
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<xristos>
and i also want to do the same with dynasm
<xristos>
and compare the two approaches
<lukego>
Related to generating VMs, I was wondering if there would be a sexp notation for LLVM IR and pretty-printer, but the nearest that I found was one for C++ (cl-cpp-generator)
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<xristos>
i was under the impression LLVM IR (bitcode?) changes frequently
<xristos>
and i've avoided it
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<lieven>
luis: it says later that the test-key has to be the *same* as the key and the glossary for same (part 2) tells you it uses eql
<luis>
lieven: OK, thanks!
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<pjb>
lukego: start writing a quine if you never wrote one.
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<pjb>
lukego: there's even more fun: writing programs that _modify_ programs! (instead of writing new ones from scratch, which is easy).
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<ck_>
Was there ever an Obfuscated Lisp Code Contest ?:)
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<lieven>
too easy with macrology
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<LdBeth>
Let’s add CPS
<LdBeth>
DONE!
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<pjb>
and reader macros.
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<shka__>
ck_: i think that writing unreadable code is not culturally accepted in this community
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<jackdaniel>
lisp code is not readable due to parentheses, you get lost during counting ,-)
<lieven>
take a look at some of the older stuff, like maxima or series
* jackdaniel
hears angry typing in the distance
<ck_>
I wonder whether joking is culturally accepted in this community. I heard that some emoticons can indicate humor.
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<jackdaniel>
all emoticons represent salty smiles
<ck_>
Impossible! Even Sideways Latin-only single-line art and portraits?
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<LdBeth>
(￣(工)￣) you can have Unicode
<edgar-rft>
Let's favour angry typing over dynamic typing.
<ck_>
not on this terminal I can't :| been putting off configuring that for years
<didi>
How do I declare the function's type value within the function definition? Say I have (defun f (x) (1+ x)) and I want to declare that the types of X and (f x) are fixnum. I know I can say (defun f (x) (declare (type fixnum x)) (the fixnum (1+ x))), but can I do it with only one declaration, without (the ...)?
<jackdaniel>
you'll need to write a macro which puts ftype declaration before function is defined
<dlowe>
or you just put the ftype declaration before the function definition
<jackdaniel>
i.e (defun* (f fixnum) ((a fixnum) (b fixnum)) (+ a b)) ; -> (progn (declaim (ftype (function (fixnum fixnum) fixnum) f))) (defun f (a b) (+ a b)))
<jackdaniel>
+/- I might have misused declaim, I'm often mistaking it with proclaim
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<shka__>
dlowe: not really, but you can declaim ftype outside of the function
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<shka__>
sorry
<shka__>
dlowe: typo
<shka__>
didi: ^^
<jackdaniel>
I knew I did mistake them! :) use proclaim in eval-when
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<dlowe>
I think declaim works here better so you don't need the eval-when
<jackdaniel>
declaim is only guaranteed to persist for the time of compilation of the file, so if you use this function outside you step into undefined behavior territory
<jackdaniel>
proclaim adds declaration to the global environment
<jackdaniel>
(some implementations treat both the same though +/- toplevelness of declaim)
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<jackdaniel>
of course said implementations behavior is conforming, relying on this behavior in common lisp code not so much (unless you target a certain compiler)
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<dlowe>
global declaration n. a form that makes certain kinds of information about code globally available; that is, a proclaim form or a declaim form.
<dlowe>
oh, it says that right in the declaim entry
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<didi>
Thank you, all.
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<pfdietz>
declaim's compile time effects are only guaranteed to exist during the compilation of that file, but the form is evaluated again when the compiled file is loaded. So, the typical compile-and-load cycle will make the declaim generally available.
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<sjl>
I want to not handle the condiditions if debug is true, so I can be dropped into a debugger at the right stack frame. But if I'm not in debug mode, I want to handle the conditions in various ways.
<sjl>
(ignore the print hi)
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<dlowe>
yes, but it makes your macro a little more complicated
<dlowe>
You can use handler-bind with a clause that handles T at the top. If *debug* is T, that handler will decline, and the next matching handler will be called
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<dlowe>
wait, other way around. if *debug* is NIL, the handler should decline
<dlowe>
if *debug* is T, the handler should call (invoke-debugger <condition>)
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<sjl>
Hmm, but handler-bind to T would invoke the debugger for ALL conditions, right? not just errors?
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<dlowe>
you don't *have* to type T
<sjl>
sure... let me try to sketch it out I guess
<pfdietz>
You do not want to replicate expression, That way lies exponential code explosion.
<pfdietz>
Oops, wroing channel
<dlowe>
pfdietz: timely though
<pfdietz>
No, wait, right channe;l
<sjl>
... are you sure? It's applicable to the macro
<sjl>
And yeah, replicating the expression is what I'm hoping to avoid
<pfdietz>
The standard trick there is to wrap it in a flet function and call that twice.
<dlowe>
otherwise I would just not use the macro and have (if *prod* (run) (handler-case (run) ...))
<dlowe>
or you could do that
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<sjl>
sure, that could work
<sjl>
fletting a thunk
<Xach>
i'm fletting a thunk where the rain gets in.
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<pfdietz>
Another idiom you see are functions that wrap thunks, making another thunk that executes the first thunk in some dynamic environment.