p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | ASDF 3.3.4
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
SenasOzys has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
minerjoe has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
iissaacc has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Changing host]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xrash has joined #lisp
v88m has joined #lisp
ayuce has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
iissaacc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
PuercoPop has joined #lisp
EvW1 has joined #lisp
bottlecap has joined #lisp
<bottlecap> is there an alternative to using `trace` in ABCL?
<bottlecap> #learninglisp
<bottlecap> woops
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<bottlecap> sorry i mean't `step`
satousan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
tephra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
torbo has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
zulu-inuoe__ has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
zulu-inuoe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
paul0 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
bitmapper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
OpenZen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
CodeSpelunker has joined #lisp
reb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Fare has joined #lisp
caltelt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
ldb has joined #lisp
EvW1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<ldb> good morning everyone
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
renzhi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
CodeSpelunker has quit [Quit: CodeSpelunker]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
CodeSpelunker has joined #lisp
ldb has joined #lisp
gjnoonan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
borei has joined #lisp
gjnoonan has joined #lisp
Alfr_ has joined #lisp
Alfr has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
nullman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<Oladon> I've created an executable with SBCL's save-lisp-and-die, but am getting an "Internal error" and dropped into ldb as soon as I run it. Could someone help me debug? Error is: Internal error #11 "Object is of the wrong type." at 0x5297650a
<Oladon> SC: 0, Offset: 7 0x00000061: other immediate 0, no tls value marker: data=0
lalilulelo has joined #lisp
<ldb> Oladon: please provide platform and version, and better ask help in #sbcl
<Oladon> Fair enough. Debian buster, SBCL 2.0.0
retropikzel_ has joined #lisp
jdz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
retropikzel has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
jdz has joined #lisp
CodeSpelunker has quit [Quit: CodeSpelunker]
retropikzel_ is now known as retropikzel
satousan has joined #lisp
<beach> Good morning everyone!
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<Oladon> Morning beach!
ldb has joined #lisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
Lord_of_Life has joined #lisp
dominic34 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Lycurgus has joined #lisp
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<Oladon> In case anyone cares, looks like the issue was https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/1857920 -- upgrading to 2.0.7 fixed it
<beach> Good to know. Thanks!
satousan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
Aurora_v_kosmose has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Aurora_v_kosmose has joined #lisp
<Lycurgus> there's a note on sbcl 2.0.6 that sb-mop and sb-pcl will in future no longer export defined symbols
<Lycurgus> is that supposed to be inocuous because if you are using the defined functional protocol you don't need access to the symbols?
ldb has joined #lisp
ldb has quit [Client Quit]
<Lycurgus> nvm, assume it will be explained further if and when
Lycurgus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Bike> it says they won't be exported from sb-pcl. presumably they'll still be exported from sb-mop.
lucasb has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
narimiran has joined #lisp
mindCrime has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ajithmk has joined #lisp
mindCrime has joined #lisp
Lycurgus has joined #lisp
<Lycurgus> ah, I didn catch that it was an alternation, ty
Lycurgus has quit [Client Quit]
satousan has joined #lisp
ukari has joined #lisp
holycow has joined #lisp
PuercoPop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
satousan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
torbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
MightyJoe has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
cyraxjoe has joined #lisp
<brettgilio> Hey. I am trying to use M-x slime-load-system, and it is returning me with this issue: Error (MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR) during printing: #<SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR {1003D5DDC3}>
terpri_ has joined #lisp
mangul has joined #lisp
terpri has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
gravicappa has joined #lisp
zaquest has quit [Quit: Leaving]
terpri_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
terpri_ has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
borei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<beach> brettgilio: Is that from a fresh SBCL image?
<brettgilio> beach: SBCL 2.0.5
<beach> I mean, is this immediately after starting SBCL, or did you load some other stuff first?
<brettgilio> Its after I start slime and connect to sbcl as the inferior, then require asdf.
<beach> I see. And does it happen also when you load the system from the REPL, as opposed to going through SLIME?
zaquest has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
wxie has joined #lisp
bsd4me has quit [Quit: Leaving]
wxie has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
wxie has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
wxie has joined #lisp
nullman has joined #lisp
ajithmk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
VincentVega has joined #lisp
VincentVega has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
pve has joined #lisp
VincentVega has joined #lisp
<VincentVega> Good day, all. I am having this really basic problem trying to access a struct field in a tree from the spatial-trees package. Here is a program and all the details, would be glad if someone could help: https://pastebin.com/p5QCCiWD
<beach> Apparently, you are not supposed to use LEAF-NODE-ENTRY-DATUM, since it is not external.
<beach> But if you know what you are doing and you want to use it anyway, do SPATIAL-TREES-IMPL::LEAF-NODE-ENTRY-DATUM with two colons.
<beach> Since the symbol is not exported, it may go away in future releases of the library.
orivej has joined #lisp
<beach> In fact, I am guessing, you should not use the -IMPL package at all.
<beach> Are you sure there is not the equivalent functionality in the -PROTOCOL package?
<VincentVega> beach: with two cols I get the error "The value ... is not of type SPATIAL-TREES-IMPL:LEAF-NODE-ENTRY" (strangely enough)
<beach> That's true, it isn't. I mean CHILDREN suggests a list and not an entry.
<VincentVega> beach: not sure about the protocol package
<beach> Yeah, me neither.
<VincentVega> beach: oh, yeah, the two cols work when i `first` the list
<VincentVega> thanks
<beach> Sure.
<VincentVega> beach: so, I figure, a double column is for non-exported symbols then?
<beach> "colon", yes.
<VincentVega> beach: I see, ok : )
<beach> But you are not supposed to use non-exported symbols, so I am guessing you are not using the system correctly.
<beach> But since I don't know that system, I am not sure what you should be doing instead.
<VincentVega> yeah, I think it's not the right way too, maybe I will find some other way
edgar-rft has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<phoe> good morniiiiing
<phoe> brettgilio: memory fault errors shouldn't happen; which system is it, and does it also happen in newer SBCL versions?
<beach> Hello phoe.
edgar-rft has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
SenasOzys has joined #lisp
farooqkz__ has joined #lisp
mangul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Fare has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
treflip has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
xrash has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<phoe> hey hi
orivej has joined #lisp
treflip has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
edgar-rft has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
holycow has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
rudi has joined #lisp
ggole has joined #lisp
RedMallet has joined #lisp
RedMallet is now known as treflip
treflip has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.8]
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
vaporatorius has joined #lisp
vaporatorius has quit [Changing host]
vaporatorius has joined #lisp
vaporatorius__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
VincentVega has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
seok has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rudi has quit [Quit: rudi]
farooqkz__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
shifty has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
specbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
minion has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ayuce has joined #lisp
specbot has joined #lisp
minion has joined #lisp
wuehlmaus has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
akoana has quit [Quit: leaving]
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
wxie has joined #lisp
mindCrime has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
mindCrime has joined #lisp
Inline has joined #lisp
treflip has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
orivej has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
orivej has joined #lisp
bhartrihari has left #lisp ["Disconnected: Replaced by new connection"]
bhartrihari has joined #lisp
treflip has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.8]
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Aurora_v_kosmose has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Aurora_v_kosmose has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
easye has quit [Quit: Switching to TLS?]
easye has joined #lisp
easye has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
easye has joined #lisp
<bottlecap> What's the name of the common lisp learning channel? I forgot.
<phoe> #clschool
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
wuehlmaus has left #lisp ["Aus, die Maus"]
madage has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zulu-inuoe__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
shidima has joined #lisp
shidima has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
v88m has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
madage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Changing host]
madage has joined #lisp
random-nick has joined #lisp
mindCrime has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
shidima has joined #lisp
ldb has joined #lisp
<ldb> hello phoe
beach` has joined #lisp
beach has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
toorevitimirp has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
zulu-inuoe has joined #lisp
retropikzel has quit [Quit: retropikzel]
<phoe> hey
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
beach` is now known as beach
ldb has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
Fare has joined #lisp
shangul has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
paule32 has joined #lisp
<paule32> hello
<paule32> i have a grid in grid
<paule32> the first grid is 2d array 20x20
<paule32> the second grid is at a position of grid 1
<paule32> i have in grid 1 5 grids(2) with 3x3 array
<paule32> 0 1 0
<paule32> 0 1 0
<paule32> 0 1 0
<paule32> that the 2d grid 3x3
<paule32> the 1 in it should give me a path
<paule32> on each middle node, can be docked a other 3x3 grid
<paule32> also, grid(1) pos1( x1=5, y1=5), and pos2( x2 = 5, y1=10)
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<paule32> so the uestion is, is that a correct method to get a pfad from a electronic wire 5-10
shidima has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
<paule32> ?
<paule32> at the moment grid(1) is initzialisted with 0 . also 20x20 defaut 0 items
<ldb> soorry, cannot parse
<paule32> shall i draw a picture?
<ldb> can you provide some images
<paule32> ok, moment please
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
<ldb> also can you explain what pos1 pos2 means?
wxie has joined #lisp
madage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
madage has joined #lisp
bottlecap has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jeosol has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shidima has joined #lisp
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
bottlecap has joined #lisp
ldb has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
retropikzel has joined #lisp
retropikzel has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
awth13 has joined #lisp
awth13 has quit [Quit: leaving]
_jrjsmrtn has joined #lisp
__jrjsmrtn__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
v0|d has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
cpt_nemo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Oladon has joined #lisp
cpt_nemo has joined #lisp
mangul has joined #lisp
narimiran has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Changing host]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
shangul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
enrio has joined #lisp
enrio has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
liberliver has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<paule32> lbl ?
jeosol has joined #lisp
<paule32> hello
<paule32> i have a question about electronix box
<paule32> 1x grid: 20x20
<paule32> each point can have 3x3 array
<phoe> what is a pfad?
<paule32> is this a good start, to handle electronic board
<phoe> what is grid(1), what is pos1/pos2, what are electronic wires 5-10
<paule32> woops pfad is the german word for path
<paule32> sorry
<paule32> pos1 is x1, y1 of grid point 1, pos2 is x2,y1 of grid point 2
<paule32> sorry, pos2 x2,y2
<paule32> little typo
EvW has joined #lisp
<phoe> what is electronic wire 5-10
isBEKaml has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
<paule32> point x1 = 5 y1 = 5, x2 = 5, y2 = 10, filled with 3x3 array
<paule32> to traverse the path of a wire or other components
<phoe> okay, so I understand so far that all the places in the 20x20 array have 0 if they don't have any wire there
<phoe> and they have an additional 3x3 array if they *have* some sort of wire there
<phoe> is this correct understanding?
<paule32> so, with the 3x3 array, i can supply all sides - up/down left/right...
enrio has joined #lisp
wxie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
<phoe> yes
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
EvW has joined #lisp
renzhi has joined #lisp
EvW has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
EvW1 has joined #lisp
edgar-rft has joined #lisp
ukari has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ukari has joined #lisp
bitmapper has joined #lisp
EvW1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ldb has joined #lisp
<ldb> sorry, just hang out for a while
<paule32> no problem, all fine
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
Inline has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
lalilulelo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ldb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
lalilulelo has joined #lisp
stepnem has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
ldb has joined #lisp
Josh_2 has joined #lisp
<ldb> paule32: I understand your description now
<Josh_2> Hi
<ldb> do you want an algorithom to construct a path by giving two end points?
<ldb> Josh_2: hey
madage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<Josh_2> anyone know if there is a library for the double ratchet algorithm described here https://signal.org/docs/specifications/doubleratchet/ ?
<ldb> paule32: assuming you want the algorithom in CL since you're asking question in #lisp
madage has joined #lisp
stepnem has joined #lisp
<ldb> Josh_2: I suppose ironclad has it
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Changing host]
<Josh_2> nah, think I have to write bindings myself
ldb has quit [Quit: nearly midnight, ldb goes to bed]
isBEKaml has quit [Quit: leaving]
<Josh_2> bit of a pita that synapse (Matrix) have used some obscure encryption scheme
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
satousan has joined #lisp
<eta> Josh_2: oh dear, what are you using matrix for
<Josh_2> Well I was writing a bot
<eta> also the signal protocol isn't obscure; it's almost the standard for encrypted chat apps nowadays
<eta> oh right
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
<eta> I'm guessing this is because you need to do e2e
<Josh_2> but now with no implementation of olm around I'm a bit stumped as I can't decrypt messages
<Josh_2> yeh
<eta> Josh_2: use pantalaimon
<eta> or whatever their transparent proxy is called
<eta> it does the e2e for you
lucasb has joined #lisp
<Josh_2> apparently olm is supposed to be easy to bind
orivej has joined #lisp
enrioog has joined #lisp
borei has joined #lisp
shifty has joined #lisp
liberliver has joined #lisp
enrio has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
lalilulelo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lalilulelo has joined #lisp
parsifal has joined #lisp
parsifal has quit [Client Quit]
<Josh_2> If I wanted to bind olm I just create bindings for these functions? https://gitlab.matrix.org/matrix-org/olm/-/blob/master/src/olm.cpp
treflip has joined #lisp
borei has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
liberliver has quit [Quit: liberliver]
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
gko_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
lalilulelo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lalilulelo has joined #lisp
borei has joined #lisp
vaporatorius__ has joined #lisp
vaporatorius has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
ajithmk_ has joined #lisp
nirved has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
v88m has joined #lisp
mangul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
nirved has joined #lisp
shidima has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
treflip has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.6]
shangul has joined #lisp
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gaqwas has quit [Changing host]
gaqwas has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
CodeSpelunker has joined #lisp
terpri__ has joined #lisp
terpri_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Bike has joined #lisp
enrioog has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
jealousmonk has joined #lisp
abhixec has joined #lisp
renzhi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
rippa has joined #lisp
dddddd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
dddddd has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
z3t0 has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.5 - https://znc.in]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
z3t0 has joined #lisp
caltelt has joined #lisp
cosimone has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
enrio has joined #lisp
<phoe> it's a .cpp file
<phoe> it doesn't smell good
dominic34 has joined #lisp
tomaw has quit [Ping timeout: 606 seconds]
tomaw has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dominic34 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
akoana has joined #lisp
CodeSpelunker has quit [Quit: CodeSpelunker]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
karlosz has joined #lisp
jealousmonk has quit [Quit: Leaving]
shangul has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
enrio has quit [Quit: Leaving]
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
satousan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.3]
FreeBirdLjj has joined #lisp
FreeBirdLjj has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jw4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Oladon has joined #lisp
jw4 has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
toorevitimirp has joined #lisp
OpenZen has joined #lisp
jgodbout has joined #lisp
mindCrime has joined #lisp
v88m has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ajithmk_ has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
hhdave has joined #lisp
hhdave has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
gaqwas has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hhdave has joined #lisp
Bourne has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Necktwi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
mindCrime has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
grumble has quit [Quit: Just put a quit message down and we'll change it later. Seriously Kevin, just goddamn put something. No, not what I just said. A quit message ffs]
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
mindCrime has joined #lisp
grumble has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
karlosz has joined #lisp
Necktwi has joined #lisp
<Josh_2> I'm starting to get real tired of ningle, just seems so clunky to do anything with the middleware
<mfiano> u
<mfiano> oops, sorry
easye has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<phoe> u2
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
Lycurgus has joined #lisp
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
ggole has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Lycurgus has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
xrash has joined #lisp
v88m has joined #lisp
alandipert4 has joined #lisp
alandipert has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
<drmeister> Hey folks - I dunno how many of you do low level debugging with gdb or lldb.
<drmeister> But if you do - you should check out the "Undo" time traveling debugger.
<drmeister> I've been using an evaluation copy for the last couple of days and it is amazing.
<drmeister> It records the state of every instruction from when you connect to the process to a break-point. Then you can backup and examine registers.
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<drmeister> Here I'm using it to debug a tricky problem in clasp's Common Lisp compiler.
<drmeister> I believe that our type inference is getting confused by some unused lexical variable bindings.
<drmeister> So I move forward through a LET* into a the bottom bindings that are inlined.
<drmeister> The inlining also doesn't generate good DWARF metadata - so we lose source info.
<drmeister> It signals an error and then I reverse back into the top of the LET*
<p_l> drmeister: I wonder how much of my friend's code is involved in the work you used there :) though AFAIK GDB also has time travel support
terpri_ has joined #lisp
<drmeister> Does your friend work at Undo? Undo is built on top of gdb. But I dunno about time travel support in stock gdb.
<Fare> rr gives you time travel support.
<drmeister> rr?
terpri__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<p_l> drmeister: yeah, though now I checked mostly in "professional services", so I guess custom patches for clients ;)
<p_l> nice integration with source listing you have, never seen it work with other debuggers when it comes to lisp
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<drmeister> Yeah - we've been adding DWARF generation to clasp. We have a bit more work to do with inlined code. We have the inlinedAt chain - but we aren't generating the appropriate DWARF with it yet.
<drmeister> udb makes it easier to figure out where the holes in the DWARF coverage are.
stepnem has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
stepnem has joined #lisp
<drmeister> I also wrote a python extension that works with gdb and lldb and lets you examine lisp objects from the outside using the gdb/lldb debugger.
<Fare> drmeister, using Python is its own punishment.
<Fare> Why didn't you do it in Lisp?
<drmeister> Don't I know it.
<Fare> You don't know Lisp?
<drmeister> Is there a Common Lisp extension capability for lldb and gdb?
<drmeister> Anyway - I'm a practical polyglot.
<Fare> Might be more fun, less time, and less soul-sucking to write one than to use Python.
asarch has joined #lisp
<drmeister> gdb has guile - but that's not Common Lispy enough for me - it would probably damage my programming ability.
<Fare> I don't think I can ever again use Python in my life.
<Fare> Guile is acceptable.
<Fare> Why damage?
<Fare> Scheme is quite similar to CL.
<Fare> Though yes, there are enough differences
<drmeister> Too similar.
<p_l> drmeister: too many false friends?
<Fare> You could use it with one of those MEXP syntaxes.
<Fare> so it would look more different
<drmeister> Anyway - I have bigger fish to fry. I knocked the Python extension out in a couple of days and made it portable so that it works from lldb and gdb.
Jesin has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<drmeister> Aaand with gdb I made it work with Python 3.7 and Python 2.7 (udb uses gdb8 and for some reason they use Python 2.7). Hi ho.
Jesin has joined #lisp
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
orivej has joined #lisp
shifty has joined #lisp
notzmv has joined #lisp
<akoana> Fare: may I ask, what are the (main) things you consider soul-sucking in python (just curious, if you like to share)?
<Fare> oh my
<Fare> Are you familiar with the concept of "attractive nuisance"?
<Fare> something that looks nice, but when you try to use it, you can suffer severe harm.
<Fare> people who deploy them in the wild are civilly liable for e.g. kids who jump in a empty swimming pool not protected by a fence.
<Fare> People who publish python should be bankrupted and/or sent to jail. That includes Google developers and management who have promoted it.
<Fare> The entire idea of "there are libraries for everything", but the actual quality of those libraries is appalling, and a maintenance disaster, and security liability.
<Fare> even the standard library... full of horrors such as `l = [1,2]; m = l ; m += [3]` side-effecting the original
<p_l> akoana: semantically important token in the form of 4 spaces. tantalizing you with "REPL" yet actually zero support for interactive programming, to the point that C is equally interactive. The libraries can be WTF, especially when you need to deal with deep exception chains, where sometimes your recovery attempts fail because somehow the library deleted the object and thus causing a totally different error....
<stylewarning> the best thing about python is its dead simple, fun, and easy way of distributing your application to others
<Fare> Happily, x = 2; y = x ; x +=1 doesn't side-effect all occurrences of the integer constant 2.
<Fare> it LOOKS dead simple, but its semantics is actually quite horrible. Scoping rules? Oh my.
<Josh_2> Ima screenshot this and send to my python buddies
<p_l> stylewarning: I honestly wanted to whack you with a shovel for a moment there, got PTSD from that line
<bitmapper> stylewarning: solution: use clpython
<Fare> basically, the syntax looks nice, but everything else is actually good... until it's actually terrible.
<stylewarning> Fare: what is so difficult about getting a virtualenv and venv and downloading conda 4.6 and getting that to interact with your system pip (which you might as well override with conda's pip (but not the python.org pip)) and point things to the right python interpreter on a per project basis i really don't understand how you could be so confused
<Fare> The idiot who designed Python had severe Dunning-Kruger and refused to delegate aspects of his languages to people who knew better, even when they were actually trying to help him.
<stylewarning> Fare: you can make that Super Simple by putting all of that in a 7 GB docker image which you can give to me by making a totally free DockerHub account
<Fare> venv is horrible
<Fare> give me ASDF any day in comparison; and I don't love ASDF *that* much in this respect.
<akoana> Fare: (and all who responded) thank you. I understand, got similar feelings with python after trying to do some serious work with it. Confirming I'm not alone with my thoughts about it:)
<p_l> Fare: I remember people laying into Ruby for Bundler. Except Python distribution tools make Ruby look like polished gem (pun intended)
easye has joined #lisp
<Fare> also—the object system is a toy, that was blessed into production
<p_l> ohhh, the OOP
<Fare> but what do you expect in a language that doesn't have macros so you could write your own OOP
<Fare> they *have* to bless a toy, no other option
<p_l> I honestly had an issue recently trying to figure how to call superclass' __init__
<p_l> cause I haven't really worked in Python with classes since around beta releases of Py3k
<stylewarning> i remember trying to write a function to tee a stream in python, like I wanted to do something like s = tee(stdout, logger) and write to s; it turns out you have to go copy paste some random stream class on stack overflow (lol duck typing) hoping it has the needed methods, because they're not clearly documented anywhere
gravicappa has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<stylewarning> then the final advice i got was "just simply don't tee streams"
<stylewarning> and i was enlightened
<Fare> and then the incompetent decisions made while it was a toy are baked into all production software.
<Fare> right now I'm using my own object system in Gerbil, instead of Gerbil's builtin object system. No problem, thanks to macros.
<paule32> hello
<Josh_2> hi paule32
<Fare> And while it *is* a (nice) toy, there is no pretense and no need to cast it in stone as everyone's only allowed object system for decades to come when using the language.
<paule32> what is wrong here https://dpaste.com/FPAG4MZA6
<paule32> at defun
<Josh_2> The formatting
<Josh_2> thats what is wrong xD
<Fare> paule32: what's wrong is you failed to describe your expectations and how the discrepancy between expectations and reality
<paule32> Josh_2: yes, but nearly on
taof has joined #lisp
<paule32> ; caught ERROR:
<paule32> ; Variable name is not a symbol: (AREF *GRID* X1 YA).
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
<drmeister> Anywho - I get a pass on using Python to write a gdb/lldb extension because I'm developing a Common Lisp implementation to avoid using Python in the rest of my life.
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
<p_l> drmeister: you have my honest condolences that you had to deal with it, and well wishes for your work :)
<Josh_2> drmeister: that sounds very cool
<drmeister> I wish I could convince my colleagues though. They think the height of scientific software development is to develop a Python bindings for Fortan code.
<paule32> Josh_2: ?
<paule32> can you help
karlosz has joined #lisp
<drmeister> paule32: Your code runs fine in clasp (a Common Lisp implementation)
Bourne has joined #lisp
<Josh_2> It's very very questionable code however
<drmeister> paule32: How are you evaluating that code?
<paule32> sbcl
<paule32> drmeister: first, i create 2d array 20x20
<paule32> second, i add a 3x3 array to a point of first grid
<paule32> that makes me possible to add components for each gap at first grid
<paule32> now, i would add a wire component
<mfiano> Too many things wrong with that coding style to want to look into it.
<paule32> at position x1 := 5, y1 = 5 as start/src , and x2 := 5, y2 = 10
<paule32> as dst
<Josh_2> mfiano++
<paule32> here a image to see the work at code: https://imgur.com/a/8wr584P
easye has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
orivej_ has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
paule32 has quit [Quit: paule32]
shifty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
shifty has joined #lisp
easye has joined #lisp
pve has quit [Quit: leaving]
torbo has joined #lisp
orivej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
asarch has quit [Quit: Leaving]
easye has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
jprajzne has quit [Quit: jprajzne]
jprajzne has joined #lisp
jprajzne has quit [Client Quit]
jprajzne has joined #lisp
ayuce has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
EvW has joined #lisp
MichaelRaskin has quit [Quit: MichaelRaskin]
wooden has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
_whitelogger has joined #lisp
toorevitimirp has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
karlosz has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Client Quit]
stepnem has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
stepnem has joined #lisp
red-dot has joined #lisp