<mfiano>
I've no idea why I'm getting that result, even though the result of sort is indeed returning (%A %B %C)
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<mfiano>
ignore the printv debugging calls
<mfiano>
Oh I see, sort of. That's definitely wrong
<mfiano>
The method, that is. Hmm
<Bike>
i don't see any obvious problem
<mfiano>
The problem I see is the (or ... length)
<Bike>
i thought you said compute-slots returned what you want?
<mfiano>
Hmm, that might not be a problem actually
<mfiano>
Yeah
<scymtym>
the MAPCAN may involve constant data. that could theoretically lead to problems
<mfiano>
The result of sort is (#<SB-MOP:STANDARD-EFFECTIVE-SLOT-DEFINITION %A> #<SB-MOP:STANDARD-EFFECTIVE-SLOT-DEFINITION %B> #<SB-MOP:STANDARD-EFFECTIVE-SLOT-DEFINITION %C>)
<mfiano>
Ah yes
<mfiano>
I bet I did it again (modified intenral implementation data structure by use of MAPCAN (is not the first time I did that))
<scymtym>
maybe put a PRINT around the macro body to make sure the generated code, including the locations, is fine?
<Bike>
throwing a copy-list into the mapcan lambda doesn't seem to change anything.
<phoe>
it operates on quasiquoted data which is literal
<phoe>
or just use a:mappend instead of mapcan
<phoe>
it's a drop-in replacement
<Bike>
anyway, so obviously the accessor functions here have the wrong slot numbers, right?
<phoe>
but what Bike said
<Bike>
it's supposed to be that the unordered slots come after the ordered ones?
<mfiano>
Yeah, I mean the result of SORT puts C last in the return value of COMPUTE-SLOTS, so I would expect C to be index 2
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<Bike>
ah, because "order" includes the keyword :ORDER
<Bike>
so the positions are one off
<mfiano>
Oh lemme see
<phoe>
hah
<phoe>
nice one!
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<mfiano>
Wait, where is the error exactly?
<Bike>
L46
<phoe>
(position x order)
<Bike>
you're doing (position slot-name order)
<mfiano>
Oh right
<Bike>
order is something like (:ORDER %A %B)
<phoe>
s/x/slot-name/
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<mfiano>
Ok besides that, is there UB going on with modifying literal data?
<Bike>
as long as you throw a copy-list in there i think it's ok
<mfiano>
Or was that a red herring?
<Bike>
i don't think it has anything to do with the issue
<Bike>
but UB is still good to avoid
<phoe>
what Bike said; it's likely unrelated and likely not an issue, but one should not mutate quasiquoted data
<mfiano>
I was asking if there is UB. I'm not sure if destructuring body is creating new lists or reusing literal conses
<Bike>
in the code as written there is UB, because mapcan will nconc the lists returned from the function, and those lists are quasiquoted i.e. constant data
<phoe>
L42 calls mapcan on `(...) which I'd avoid
<phoe>
in the general case `(...) should be treated same as '(...) which is literals
<phoe>
s/literals/as literals/
<phoe>
just use a:mappend instead of mapcan and you're good to go.
<mfiano>
I always forget about that function, and always forget about the destructive nature. It's not often I reach for mapcan, and when I do, too much time has passed since last time. Sigh
<mfiano>
Well, thanks for the feedback
<phoe>
I have learned that every time I try to use mapcan I want mappend instead
<fiddlerwoaroof>
interesting
<mfiano>
Especially at compile time
<fiddlerwoaroof>
I usually just make sure I have something that forces a new list
<phoe>
unless I explicitly make fresh data in the function, at which point mapcan is, surprisingly, the proper function to use
<fiddlerwoaroof>
e.g. a copy-list
<phoe>
that works too
<fiddlerwoaroof>
It's one of the more useful functions because it lets you combine a map + a remove-if-* into one callback
<phoe>
but most of the time I do things like (mapcan #'c2mop:generic-function-methods ...) which is a very good prelude for ,sril
<phoe>
and after ,sril and some quiet cursing I grab mappend and continue programming
<fiddlerwoaroof>
This is really why things like SERIES exist
<phoe>
oh wait, it's either ,ril or M-x s-r-i-l
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
They let you have the efficiency of MAPCAN with the safety of MAPPEND
<mfiano>
I must be tired. I am usually questioning myself whenever I use mapcan, because the last time I used it with c2mop, the data it was destructively modifying were SB-MOP internals
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Clojure came up with transducers for the same reason
<phoe>
mfiano: I remember that time
<phoe>
it's strange to remember such things but I remember discussing it with you then
<mfiano>
Haha, yeah and if you remember you know it was 2-3 years ago. I don't use this function often
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<fiddlerwoaroof>
That's really surprising to me, it's the >>= function from Haskell (monad bind), which is one of the most useful functions around
<phoe>
yes, but for whatever reason the CL package only includes the mutating variant, which you don't really have in haskell
<phoe>
mappend had to be reinvented in alexandria because of that
<phoe>
and in many other independent codebases
<mfiano>
Again, I usually use mappend or copy-list or copy-tree
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Well, haskell does the SERIES optimization automagically for you
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<mfiano>
I was just being forgetful in a cascade of bugs to fix
<fiddlerwoaroof>
Most of the intermediate sequences get optimized away by the type system
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<splittist>
edgar-rft: something like that (: A bit of refactoring. And a change of algorithm.
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<flip214>
and a different programming language. different OS. different architecture. and, last but not least, a different universe without Murphy's Law.
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<jackdaniel>
splittist: the version "before" looks super-smart! ;)
<jackdaniel>
the "after" looks like a plain code. hence: use the "before" to show off ^_^
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<splittist>
jackdaniel: noted (:
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<Josh_2>
Good afternoon everyoen
<Josh_2>
everyone :P
<beach>
Hello Josh_2.
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<Fade>
anybody here affected by the OVH catastrophe in Strasbourg?
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<mfiano>
Bike: If I want to prevent setting the ORDER of subclasses of classes using my metaclass, is it the right approach to walk the CPL and extract the order from superclasses with the same metaclass, or is there anything more convenient to help in this regard?
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<beach>
Fade: Yes, jackdaniel.
<edgar-rft>
In contrast to Paris only the data center burned down but the cathedral is still standing.
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<jackdaniel>
Fade: right, my server is down. luckily I don't host my own mail for a few months already
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<Bike>
mfiano: i thought all subclasses were defined via a macro you export?
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<mfiano>
Bike: Yes. The usage of the macro is (define-ordered-class foo (superclasses) slots (:order direct-slot-1 ... direct-slot-N)), however, if foo is a subclass of another ordered class, I want to prevent specifying an ordering of the superclass slots in exactly the same order as they appear in the superclass.
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<Bike>
why don't you just export a macro that doesn't allow setting the order
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<mfiano>
I wasn't able to work that out for the manner of use I need
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<Bike>
huh? just do (defmacro exported-definer (name superclasses slots) `(define-ordered-class ,name ,superclasses ,slots)). bam, no order specified
<mfiano>
If bar is a subclass of foo, and both are ordered-class's, yet both want to order their own direct slots without respecifying the parent ordering in the subclass, that is my problem
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<mfiano>
ie, both macros have disjoint orderings
<Bike>
are these both definitions you're doing, not the user?
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<mfiano>
no, the superclass would be mine, and the subclass would be the user. I want the user to be able to order their own slots that come after mine. But that's not to say the user might also want another level of subclasses to do similar
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<Bike>
well, i guess if you want to export that, and the user has access to your slot names, you could put a method on validate-superclass to reject if the orders are incompatible
<mfiano>
They would not have access to my slot names. The parent class would be an implementation detail
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<Bike>
in that case i suppose you need to make the slot orderings inheritable. similar to the slots themselves, each class could have a "direct" slot order that was specified for it, and then an "effective" order composed from its direct order and its superclasses' direct orders
<mfiano>
That makes sense, I'll think about that some more, thanks.
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<mfiano>
Well I got the direct-order and effective-order computed, but I'm wondering how to actually use the effective-order to generate the fast accessor functions in the expansion of the macro, since it's stored in the class that is not yet realized.
<mfiano>
Needs more thought.
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<mfiano>
Only way I know how to do it is to finalize the classes, but then I couldn't forward-reference.
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<mfiano>
Bike: Do you have any suggestions? I don't have the CPL until finalization, so I can't generate the accessors in the macro without finalization currently, which makes it a bit less usable.
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<mfiano>
Currently the effective order is computed and written to the class in compute-slots
<Bike>
i guess you need to save the order information in the environment at compile time
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<Bike>
which is doable, if exotic. maybe you should just use defstruct instead of bothering with all of this
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<mfiano>
Yeah that is a little exotic, and I am rewriting a complex system that is using defstruct
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<mfiano>
For user-exposed API defstruct won't do with a live-recompilable game engine.
<Bike>
if it's recompilable you are going to hit more problems
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<mfiano>
A friend of mine is also interested in experiemnting with s-i-a for his game engine
<Bike>
say you redefine a superclass to have more ordered slots. suddenly, all subclass accessors are using the wrong positions
<mfiano>
Well the superclass is never going to change
<Bike>
really? really really? you said users can define these ordered classes.
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<Bike>
and if the classes really will never change, why not just ues defstruct? you're already abandoning recompilation of them in particular
<mfiano>
THis is so the engine internals always has fast access to the ordered slots of the private superclass. It is the user's responsibility to consider the static nature of their own code
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<mfiano>
The engine-internal superclass of user-defined classes via a macro will not change, and the system depends on the MOP in other areas, so CLOS is needed
<Bike>
implementations with mop usually let you use it with structure classes to some extent
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<Bike>
but if you want to keep doing this, you are going to have to put information in the environment, like defstruct does
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<Bike>
you can hack it in with define-symbol-macro
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<mfiano>
You're right. For this particular macro it is fairly uncommon for users to want any inheritance apart from the implementation detail engine class. It is probably best to not expose the ability for user slot orderings.
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<Josh_2>
mfiano: are you rewriting your game engine?
<mfiano>
Haha, which one? I am thinking about a redesign, of one of them, as countless games have got shutdown due to performance after several months of development over the last few years, and I don't have enough desire to use any other language.
<Josh_2>
oh right, so what are you working on now?
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<mfiano>
The above? Just exploring some pieces to get an idea for my design document.
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<Josh_2>
Oh I see
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<Josh_2>
very cool :)
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<eschulte>
Can anyone point me to example code passing strings, ideally UTF-8, between C and ECL? I've compiled a common-lisp system to a .so w/ECL but I'm having trouble reliably using it from C.
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<eschulte>
I'd like to ask on the ecl-devel mailing list, but I'm having trouble subscribing
<phoe>
there's also #ecl that could possibly help you with both issues
<phoe>
which is strings and mailing list
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<eschulte>
ah, thanks, I should have thought of that
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