jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | offtopic --> #lispcafe
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<Xach> White_Flame: it's trapped by the OS usually?
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<White_Flame> Xach: yeah, I changed the OS shortcuts to something else, wondering what most people do with that
<Xach> White_Flame: that's what i do.
<White_Flame> wrangling with a weird issue that ql:quickload works at the repl, but .asd :depends-on dependencies just have asdf scream with system unknown
<White_Flame> for online systems to download
<White_Flame> works on linux, works on x86 mac, breaks on m1 mac. But we have loader stuff before asdf that's generic and might be breaking something?
<White_Flame> erm, before the quicklisp load
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<Xach> not defsystem-depends-on?
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<White_Flame> just plain :depends-on ("trivial-garbage") or whatever happens to be the first non-locally installed system
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<Xach> weird
<White_Flame> Component "trivial-garbage" not found, required by #<SYSTEM ..my thingy..>
<White_Flame> yeah, also with sbcl m1 support being very new, that's also a niggling suspicion
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<fiddlerwoaroof> White_Flame: emacs has particular settings to control this, I think
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<fiddlerwoaroof> But, you have to disable the "switch spaces" shortcut in system preferences
<fiddlerwoaroof> Anyways, I still mostly use x86_64 sbcl via Rosetta 2
<White_Flame> right, that's what I did. remapped it to cmd-arrows
<White_Flame> oh, I thought that x64 sbcl was fairly unstable under rosetta
<fiddlerwoaroof> It works just fine for me
<fiddlerwoaroof> Ever since 11.1 or so
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<White_Flame> huh, I'll try it and see if there's a difference in this weirdness
<fiddlerwoaroof> If you don't mind using emacs 27, the "railwaycat" macport is a lot better, in a bunch of ways
<White_Flame> I mostly want this as a build box, so the emacs differences aren't that concerning to me
<fiddlerwoaroof> Ok
<fiddlerwoaroof> If any maintainers of Plexippus XPath are around, I just found a somewhat surprising bug: https://github.com/sharplispers/xpath/issues/12
<fiddlerwoaroof> I can work around it, but it took me like half an hour to figure out what's happening
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<White_Flame> fiddlerwoaroof: hmm, did you build your x86 version yourself? the sbcl download page for amd64 macos is ye olde 1.2.11, and I don't have an x86 mac available to me
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<Bike> ::notify pfdietz you have something to randomly generate lisp code for testing, right? is that available anywhere? i want to do that for cleavir
<Colleen> Bike: Got it. I'll let pfdietz know as soon as possible.
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<White_Flame> Xach: btw, the problem ended up being that we were just running from master branch, which didn't have the update from asdf->ql loading. So no ql or m1 issues, just lots of wasted time here ;)
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<Josh_2> Good morning beach
<Oladon> Morning, beach!
<fiddlerwoaroof> White_Flame: I got it from nix
<fiddlerwoaroof> But, yeah, I always build things myself
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<veera> Hello guys
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<ey[m]> how do I define char as c in
<ey[m]> (loop for c across str
<ey[m]> with char = c ....)
<ey[m]> char starts with the value nil for some reason
<beach> Try replacing WITH by FOR. WITH is executed only once at the beginning of the loop.
<ey[m]> oh ok
<ey[m]> wait, doesn't FOR make char = c in all the loops ?
<ey[m]> I just wanted char to equal c at the beginning
<ey[m]> not in every loop
<beach> Oh, so you want char to be only the first character in the string?
<ey[m]> yeah
<ey[m]> doing it with, makes c = NIL
<ey[m]> * char = NIL
<beach> Why don't you just set char to the first element of the string?
<beach> I would just do (loop with char = (char str 0) for c across str...)
<ey[m]> I did try that, but for some reason it looks like c is equal to NIL at the beginning
<beach> Yes, I am not surprised. There is probably a (let ((c nil)) ... ) in the expansion of LOOP.
<ey[m]> hmm ok
<beach> But what I suggested should work, unless the string is empty of course.
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<beach> ey[m]: So did it work/
<beach> ?
<ey[m]> yeah it did
<ey[m]> I just had to change another variable I had defined
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<aggin> in CLOS, if :initarg is specified, in which method should I define my code if I want to do something after the slot's are set to their respective initargs ?
<aggin> :after ?
<beach> Typically in an :AFTER method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE.
<aggin> when does the :around method execute?
<beach> Before any other methods, and it requires a call to CALL-NEXT-METHOD to call the others.
<aggin> oh ok
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<aggin> final question: is it possible to define 2 :after methods ?
<beach> Only if they have different specializers.
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<beach> Like if you have LISP-PROGRAMMER being a subclass of PERSON, you can have two :AFTER methods, each specializing in one of the two.
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<beach> The most specific one will then be executed last.
<aggin> oh, so both execute
<beach> All applicable :AFTER methods execute, yes.
<aggin> I thought the :after method of the subclass overrides the superclass's
<aggin> what if I wanted to do something that is the same in both methods that runs after the :after methods ?
<beach> clhs 7.6.6.2
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<beach> You mean in :AFTER method A: (progn (do-stuff-a) (do-common-stuff)) and in B: (progn (do-stuff-b) (do-common-stuff))?
<aggin> yeah
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<beach> Call a function called DO-COMMON-STUFF from both methods.
<aggin> ok :)
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<ldb> good afternoon
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<beach> Hello ldb.
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<jmercouris> hello everyone :-)
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<phoe> hey
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<beach> Hello jmercouris. Hello phoe.
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<world> hello!
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<edgar-rft> hello world!
<beach> Very funny!
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<edgar-rft> Yes, I'm still laughing.
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<Josh_2> Good afternoon
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<Josh_2> Does anyone have much experience with jonathan the JSON parser/generator?
<Gnuxie[m]> What's the problem?
<Josh_2> I'm trying to generate JSON that looks like "device_keys": {"@alice:example.com": []}
<Josh_2> where I can have many @alice.. etc but I keep trying and jojo keeps outputting like "{"device_keys":"[{\"@timestealer:scyldings.com\":[]} .. adding the []
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<Gnuxie[m]> Ok, there's some dynamic variables for cobtrolling nil if that's the problem trying to get []
<Josh_2> Nah I want the [] after the ids, but I don't want all of the ids wrapped in the []
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<Gnuxie[m]> You are creating keys dynamically?
<Gnuxie[m]> There's with-json-object anf associated macrolets foe that
<Gnuxie[m]> Iirc
<Josh_2> I already have the list of keys
<Josh_2> It's annoying because the format required is like each key is a slot in a class...
<Gnuxie[m]> Not sure what you mean
<Gnuxie[m]> Are you mapping this format to CLOS?
<Josh_2> yes, but in order to have an object like {name: {o1}, {o2}, {o3}} which is basically the format I need, jojo expects each of o1 o2 to be a slot in a class, but I have a list of them instead, this is why they keep ending up like {name: [{o1},{02}.. ]} etc
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<Gnuxie[m]> I would just keep the keys in a list/table in a slot and encapsulate access to them, then account for tjat with your to-json method
<Josh_2> well I've done the first part, and I'm trying the second, hence the question
<Gnuxie[m]> Ok, I mean, i'm on a phone rn and no computer but I donmt see anything that woukd stop you doing this
<Gnuxie[m]> Loop over each entry and do json-key + json-value
<Josh_2> ah
<Josh_2> okay
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<Josh_2> Okay I figured it out, thanks for the help Gnuxie[m]
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<Gnuxie[m]> np, good luck :)
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<fiddlerwoaroof> Josh_2: I gave up on Jonathan, for some reason: I mostly use Yason these days
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<fiddlerwoaroof> If I have a loop like (loop for line = (get-line s) while (peek-char nil s) collect line), is there a good way to get the last line?
<fiddlerwoaroof> e.g. on a single-line input, you'll just get nil, because WHILE triggers before the collect
<fiddlerwoaroof> clhs loop
<fiddlerwoaroof> hmm, maybe I can put the termination test after the collect? I'm never quite sure whether that's conforming
<White_Flame> why not while line?
<White_Flame> or does get-line crash with eof?
<fiddlerwoaroof> In the real code, there's an equality test onthe next char
<White_Flame> but yeah, you can basically order these things any way you want
<fiddlerwoaroof> Yeah, I guess the only rule is the variable initializations can't be mixed with accumulation or termination tests
<White_Flame> I think WITH clauses get hoisted to the top
<White_Flame> (loop for x from 1 to 10 collect (list x y) with y=3) does work
<_death> White_Flame: nope.. as #lisp helped me find out a while ago, you can't put WHILE before FOR, for example
<White_Flame> (whether that's standard or not, who knows ;) )
<fiddlerwoaroof> Yeah, that's what I mean
<fiddlerwoaroof> the grammar in the spec specifies `loop [name-clause] {variable-clause}* {main-clause}* `
<White_Flame> _death: right, hence the "basically"
<fiddlerwoaroof> but with while clause is a main-clause
<White_Flame> but collect vs termination vs DOs etc are fine
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<CL-ASHOK> my favourite read on LOOP (I love LOOP..COLLECT!)
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<Nilby> Great exmaples from the great quux, but maybe the Fermat's last theorm part could use an update.
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<rpg> Anyone have a recommendation or warning for UUID library?
<CL-ASHOK> what's quux?
<Nilby> Guy L Steele
<Nilby> author of cltl2
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<rpg> Both unicly and uuid seem to be pretty ancient.
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<CL-ASHOK> Thanks Nilby
<_death> CL-ASHOK: one of the examples has the exact issue I mentioned.. it makes a lot of sense to allow it, but unfortunately it's not the case
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<CL-ASHOK> I'm trying to get my head around it, still a very confusing topic
<_death> clhs 26.7
<specbot> Couldn't find anything for 26.7.
<_death> heh, not sure why I expected clhs to have that same section
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<_death> clhs 6.1.4.3
<specbot> Examples of WHILE and UNTIL clauses: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_adc.htm
<_death> here the example is changed.. which is strange, because it indicates that they were aware of the limitation and chose to preserve it
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<_death> I guess it makes more sense in this particular example.. since the cltl2 version would get () for the empty stack, rather than (0)
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<_death> also, 6.1.4 keeps this sentence: "Termination-test control constructs can be used anywhere within the loop body."
<rpg> ... and unicly won't compile -- breaks into internal SBCL packages.
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<CL-ASHOK> how would I declare a variable and then modify it as I see fit within a LOOP?
<CL-ASHOK> the collect / append / etc. doesn't seem to be flexible enough for my needs
<mfiano> rpg: Which variant?
<_death> (loop with foo do (setf foo (random 2)))
<rpg> mfiano: I believe v5. But I'm not sure -- I just have a JSON schema that says "uuid" -- not that helpful!
<mfiano> rpg: One of your co-workers and I wrote random-uuid, which handles v4 efficiently
<CL-ASHOK> Thanks _death
<rpg> mfiano: Ah -- I didn't even know that.
<rpg> mfiano: Pete K?
<mfiano> Yes
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<mfiano> We wrote it for our game engine, but was recently ripped out into a separate library for the most recent QL dist. Though, not sure how useful strictly v4 may be to you. Hopefully you don't need the MAC-based variant, as that can't really be done with pure CL, and the other libraries use CFFI or OS specifics wrongly here (failed on all of my machines)
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<rpg> mfiano: The UURL given in Quicklisp doesn't seem to correspond to an extant repo on github....
<mfiano> Maybe Xach used the wrong URL...I'm not on GitHub
<mfiano> It's super simple...not much to it
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<rpg> mfiano: Thanks -- it's nice to have that README.md. Seems like Quickdocs is dead.
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<rpg> mfiano: I put a notice in the Quicklisp mailing list.
<rpg> (about the URL).
<mfiano> It was my fault
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<mfiano> The :homepage was extracted from the ASD rather than the :source-control line.
<mfiano> My coleslaw script failed some months ago and I haven't repaired my homepage yet
<mfiano> In any case, the git URL in the asd which I gave you is where the code lives anyway
<mfiano> Xach: is homepage required, and does your script fall back to :source-control if not present?
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<fiddlerwoaroof> but _death see 6.1.1.4
<fiddlerwoaroof> clhs 6.1.1.4
<fiddlerwoaroof> hmm, maybe that doesn't help: I misread the definition of "loop body" there
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<Xach> mfiano: it is not required, and no
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<_death> fiddlerwoaroof: it does help, somewhat.. if termination-test can only contribute to the loop body (as defined there), and for-as-clause contributes to both the loop prologue and the loop body..
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<mfiano> Alright fixed homepage fragment in all my asd's. Maybe I won't get a fifth complaint this month :)
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<Xach> mfiano: thanks
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<fiddlerwoaroof> I've found a couple macros sort of interesting:
<fiddlerwoaroof> MAY takes (may (string-upcase string)) and turns it into (when string (string-upcase string)) [obviously, without the double-eval of "string"]
<fiddlerwoaroof> I don't have a good name for the other one, but it converts the first arg into a stream using WITH-INPUT-FROM-STRING
<fiddlerwoaroof> That one's newer, but the MAY macro reads a lot nicer and reduces boilerplate in a way I find pleasant
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<moon-child> fiddlerwoaroof: I think it had been better as (may string #'string-upcase). Else it may not be clear which object is potentially-nil. (Think (may (+ x 5)).)
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<moon-child> and that lets you express something like (may #L(+ _ y) x)
<fiddlerwoaroof> It's always the first argument
<fiddlerwoaroof> I like that the wrapped form still reads correctly
<fiddlerwoaroof> But, I can see the advantages of the other way: I think I first invented it when I was getting annoyed by nil checks :)
<fiddlerwoaroof> e.g. if my code is already (string-upcase string), it's really easy to fix it by just doing (may (string-upcase string))
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<aeth> fiddlerwoaroof: it should be may1 may2 and mayn, like progn
<fiddlerwoaroof> hmm, maybe
<White_Flame> fiddlerwoaroof: I could see this as somewhat related to alexandria:when-let*
<White_Flame> sort of a nested version of that