unimog has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
unimog has joined #lisp
epony has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
hendursa1 has quit [Quit: hendursa1]
hendursaga has joined #lisp
hiroaki has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
luckless has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
Kundry_W_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
kevingal has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hiroaki has joined #lisp
orivej has joined #lisp
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
hiroaki has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Mezzie has joined #lisp
Mezzie has quit [Client Quit]
luckless has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
luckless has joined #lisp
rumbler31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
curtosis has joined #lisp
semz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
epony has joined #lisp
Achylles has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
curtosis has quit [Quit: My Mac Mini has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Guest11347 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
bmansurov has joined #lisp
Sheilong has quit []
semz has joined #lisp
semz has quit [Changing host]
semz has joined #lisp
skapata has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frost-lab has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
contrapunctus has left #lisp ["Disconnected: closed"]
contrapunctus has joined #lisp
ebrasca has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ikrabbe|2 has joined #lisp
akela has joined #lisp
nullman has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ikrabbe has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
nullman has joined #lisp
prxq_ has joined #lisp
waleee-cl has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
prxq has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Achylles has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Achylles has joined #lisp
notzmv has joined #lisp
long4mud has joined #lisp
gitgood has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
hineios8 has joined #lisp
hineios has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
hineios8 is now known as hineios
Oladon has joined #lisp
Alfr is now known as Guest90764
Alfr has joined #lisp
Guest90764 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Bike has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
<beach>
Good morning everyone!
seok has joined #lisp
notzmv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sp41 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
akela has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<jasom>
mfiano: it's not the number of lines of code, it's how long it takes to write the lines of code. I've written something similar before and I had some subtle bugs with my first implementation.
gaqwas has joined #lisp
gzj has joined #lisp
bitmapper has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
elusive has joined #lisp
johnjay has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
Achylles has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
aartaka has joined #lisp
mindCrime_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Oladon has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
notzmv has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
torbo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
toma63 has joined #lisp
toma63 has quit [Client Quit]
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aeth has joined #lisp
aartaka_d has joined #lisp
aartaka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
aartaka_d has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
aartaka has joined #lisp
skapata has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
matryoshka has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
narimiran has joined #lisp
aartaka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
aartaka has joined #lisp
elusive has quit [Quit: Leaving]
tempest_nox has joined #lisp
johnjay has joined #lisp
Kundry_Wag has joined #lisp
orivej has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Kundry_Wag has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
tempest_nox has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Sauvin has joined #lisp
judson_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
bjorkint0sh has joined #lisp
bjorkintosh has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
shka_ has joined #lisp
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
pve has joined #lisp
gzj has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
indathrone has quit [Quit: Leaving]
phantomics_ has joined #lisp
phantomics has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Lord_of_Life has joined #lisp
Lycurgus has joined #lisp
skapata has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
lottaquestions has joined #lisp
lottaquestions_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
surabax has joined #lisp
midre has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
rjcks has joined #lisp
midre has joined #lisp
midre has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
midre has joined #lisp
aartaka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<seok>
adding #P"/home/user/" doesn't seem to help
<seok>
It was working fine before, but it stopped working for unknown reason
<seok>
the link is dead by the way, I'll search it up
<phoe>
the link works for me
<seok>
nope not for me
galex-713 has joined #lisp
vegansbane6963 has joined #lisp
<seok>
i moved my project to ~/.quicklisp/local-projects/ and it works
specbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
minion has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aartaka_d has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
frgo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
frgo has joined #lisp
aartaka has joined #lisp
aeth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
aeth has joined #lisp
<MetaYan>
phoe: seok: common-lisp.net is unreachable for me as well.
phantomics_ has joined #lisp
OlCe has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
phantomics has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
amb007 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
amb007 has joined #lisp
Feldman has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
hendursa1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
hendursa1 has joined #lisp
<pjb>
moon-child: rplaca is a function; (setf car) is a function too. (let ((cs (list (cons nil nil) (cons nil nil)))) (values (mapc #'rplaca cs '(1 2)) (mapc #'(setf cdr) '(44 55) cs))) #| --> ((1 . 44) (2 . 55)) ; (44 55) |# your choice.
<no-defun-allowed>
Nope, Clozure does not implement (setf cdr) as a function, and that is allowed somewhere in the standard.
<no-defun-allowed>
(setf getf) would most likely not be a function, for example, as it might push a new property into the place without modifying list structure.
Feldman has joined #lisp
<pjb>
moon-child: however, it looks like (function (setf car)) is not conforming: implementations could have no such function, and just hack setf, like for defstruct accessors.
<Bike>
print-backtrace prints to *debug-io* whereas that format will print to *standard-output*. maybe the log is only getting the standard output.
<Bike>
i guess you could try replacing the print-backtrace call with (let ((*debug-io* (make-two-way-stream *standard-input* *standard-output*))) (trivial-backtrace:print-backtrace e)), and then it will print the backtrace to standard output as well.
<Bike>
oh, or more simply (trivial-backtrace:print-backtrace e :output *standard-output*)
<Bike>
probably pass :verbose t as well
specbot has joined #lisp
minion has joined #lisp
<thomasb06>
ah, let me have a look. (it doesn't show but I'm on a sugar crash... had a huge patisserie few hours ago and obviously it was more sugary that what I'm used too)
vaporatorius has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
cantstanya has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<thomasb06>
so I've put `(trivial-backtrace:print-backtrace e :output *standard-output* :verbose t)` and now I recompile
<fiddlerwoaroof>
luis: one thing that would be really useful on macOS is support for the @executable_path, @loader_path and @rpath variables, although I think this would also need implementation-level changes
specbot has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
minion has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #lisp
specbot has joined #lisp
minion has joined #lisp
judson_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
judson_ has joined #lisp
<thomasb06>
Bike does the new backtrace ring a bell?
Feldman has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<Bike>
i have very little idea about graphics programming, let alone ulubis, so that's as far as i go
<jcowan>
I see I have been massively misinterpreted by several different people, and I hate that (Geek Answer Syndrome)
<phoe>
luis: congrats
<Bike>
you should report this logging bug along with your actual problem, btw
<jcowan>
So: I'm not annoyed with the Lisp community and never have been. What is more, someone else applied the phrase "idiotic mysticism" to Zen, not to Lisp, and I denied that Zen was in any way mystical. What I did do was compare certain Lispers (unnamed) to irascible Zen masters: they know a lot, but they have no patience with those who don't.
<mason>
jcowan: That was a random comment the other day. How is that still in anyone's mind?
<jcowan>
It only now came to my attention. "Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never."
<mason>
kk
<mfiano>
I have been trying to decide if I should be offended by "some very useful help tends to be available only from rather grumpy people"
<jcowan>
"An insult is like a drink: it affects one only if it is accepted." If you don't think you meet that description, then I see no reason to be offended. I certainly did not have you in mind.
<mfiano>
I was thinking all the Lispers that I respect, moreso than myself.
fox_ has joined #lisp
silasfox has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
Thunderbi is now known as nckx
<thomasb06>
Bike cheers
wsinatra has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<thomasb06>
Bike on the Gitter channel, I posted both backtraces, maybe I'll get a few hint
<thomasb06>
as I don't know any of Lisp, I won't go that far at all... Thank you for your help
<thomasb06>
My graphics card is an Nvidia so maybe it's related
shka_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
Feldman has joined #lisp
unimog has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
narimiran has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
cosimone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cosimone has joined #lisp
wsinatra has joined #lisp
ebrasca has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sjl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<Josh_2>
Xach: I have a lot of overlapping circles and I was hoping that when two overlap I could do a composite colour
karlosz has quit [Quit: karlosz]
ebrasca has joined #lisp
fox_ is now known as silasfox
Feldman has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
contrapunctus has joined #lisp
ebrasca has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
ebrasca has joined #lisp
Feldman has joined #lisp
<Feldman>
I was wondering, does anyone know *why* CL-CONT is so slow, on the technical level?
Lycurgus has quit [Quit: Exeunt]
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<_death>
I guess because it uses funcallable-instances, though I've not checked
<Feldman>
What exactly is a "funcallable instance", a bunch of lambda functions?
<phoe>
nope
<phoe>
it's a MOP term
<phoe>
it's a standard object that is funcallable
<_death>
Feldman: check make-funcallable in the source
rumbler31 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<Shinmera>
even without that you basically need to wrap a ton of stuff in lambdas and thus create a lot of indirection and allocation that is otherwise not necessary. Without direct implementation support you can't do much better.
srandon111 has quit [Quit: leaving]
<_death>
Feldman: not only that, it calls f/cc-function (a generic function) each time as well.. no dynamic-extent declaration for the &rest arg though maybe it's inferred
<Feldman>
_death: Not quite sure how dispatch is done for funcallable instances, but would implementing Robert Strandh's fast dispatch solve or help that?
rumbler31 has joined #lisp
<phoe>
it isn't
<Bike>
they don't dispatch, do they?
<phoe>
funcallable instances don't have dispatch by default
<phoe>
dispatching is a GF thing.
asarch has joined #lisp
<Bike>
a funcallable instance is just a function with some other slots attach. it doesn't do any kind of dispatch unless you define it to do so.
<phoe>
by default, calling a funcallable instance just calls a standard lisp function
<Bike>
attached.
<phoe>
but what that function does, that's up to the programmer
<Feldman>
Oh right, why are they so slow then? lack of implementation optimisation?
<phoe>
are they slow?
<Bike>
well, death suggested they are
sjl has joined #lisp
<Bike>
i'm not sure they are, though. depends on what cl-cont is doing.
rumbler31 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<Bike>
i don't actually understand why a continuations system would involve them
<Bike>
values represents the final continuation i suppose
<phoe>
but given the sheer number of repetitions I seriously don't think that fin overhead is what makes things slow
<Bike>
phoe: huh, that's way worse than i'd expect... oh, well, actually sbcl is almost certainly going to inline your second lambda there
<_death>
before I also used arnesi continuations, which I don't think do that kind of thing
<phoe>
oh
<phoe>
I don't know how to tell it not to inline
<_death>
oh, looks like they use funcallable instances as well
<Bike>
defining them both as global functions declaimed notinline is one way, but ofc then you get a little bit of overhead from looking up the global
<Bike>
but it's the same for both so it's ok
<phoe>
oh right, that function call isn't inlined
<phoe>
it's optimized away altogether
<Bike>
tomato, tomato
<Bike>
i did not think that through.
<phoe>
okay, I have no idea how to benchmark that
<phoe>
too late for me to think properly
sjl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
<Bike>
anyway, it looks like this other stuff cl-cont is doing is going to be slow regardless of how instances work.
anticrisis has joined #lisp
<Feldman>
I'm asking because I was thinking about a tagbody (and possibly symbol-macro) based approach that would avoid wrapping stuff in lambda (they would be wrapped in tagbodies instead, which I assume are lighter)
<Bike>
worth a shot. probably hard to do it correctly in general, tho.
<luis>
fiddlerwoaroof: maybe my next computer will be a mac again, but right now I don't have any macs (not sure if the powerbook still boots :D). Last one got stolen a few years back.
<_death>
Feldman: just removing that f/cc-function call would likely make it much faster (funcallable-standard-instance-access?)
<pjb>
My next computer was a NeXT Computer :-)
<Feldman>
_death: yeah I saw that and was like ??, I suppose FGF would actually help there!, still I wonder why the overhead is 10× for funcallable instances on SBCL in general...
<_death>
Feldman: I'm guessing for the funcallable-instance-function simply having (apply function #'values args) will do.. if the function slot does not change
<Bike>
it's not. phoe's benchmark does not account for an optimization.
varjag has quit [Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 28.0.50)]
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
<_death>
Feldman: in short, it's slow because no one worked on making it faster ;)
<Bike>
i tried making them global and the funcallable instance is called pretty much exactly as quickly as a regular function.
<Bike>
ten million calls in 36 ms. it's fine.
<_death>
Bike: that's good to hear
<Feldman>
That's more reassuring
<Bike>
luckily, death has identified several other horrible efficiency issues to gasp in distress at
<Bike>
seems like some other stuff will get screwed up too, here. if every lambda expression is made into one of these funcallable things, that's going to inhibit a lot of normal compiler optimizations
<Bike>
i don't see anything that sets the f/cc-function, at least?
judson_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
<_death>
Bike: me neither.. there's use of the reader, and that can turn into f-i-s-a or something..
<Bike>
or just have the instance function close over it
<_death>
Bike: yeah, I mean in fdesignator-to-function/cc
<Bike>
oh i see
<asarch>
This is a meme about how hard a programming language could be. What is "The Lambda Tessaract"? Is it related to Common Lisp? https://pasteboard.co/JVwyaeU.jpg