jackdaniel changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/freenode/%23lisp> <https://irclog.whitequark.org/lisp> <http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/> | offtopic --> #lispcafe
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<fiddlerwoaroof> I think screamer-plus's github repo there might be a license violation :)
<fiddlerwoaroof> The email in the license note is for Simon White e
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<Nilby> Yes. Also the "You may not distribute the code" part.
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<beach> Good morning everyone!
<Nilby> Good morning.
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<lukego> I was a good boy and write some unit tests but I'm already deleting them all because they are not worth the effort to maintain.
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<splittist> lukego: If I'm writing to a spec, or in the last throws of writing (or, at least, working out) a spec, then I find unit(?) tests to be useful. But if I'm 'exploring the design space' (i.e. coding without knowing what I'm doing) then I do find them a boat anchor rather than a sanity check.
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<lukego> splittist: I think that in this case I wrote some really basic unit tests as scaffolding to get some low-level routines working for the first time. but now I don't need it much because I've written other code that exercises these routines pretty thoroughly and I can just run that to get test coverage.
<lukego> so it seems like my test suite will just try to exercise lots of relevant code paths and then I'll need to have enough "design by contract" style instrumentation to be able to catch and debug errors when/where they occur
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<jackdaniel> I call it bravery! ;-)
<jackdaniel> but tests are a drag (although a very useful one)
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<lukego> (my case might also be special in that these are routines for importing data in a specific file format and it only takes three and a half seconds to import all such data that actually exists... so I don't really need to be prepared for inputs that aren't included in the test suite)
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<shka_> hi all
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<attila_lendvai> is quicklisp automatically hooking into ASDF by default to download any missing systems? if not, is there a simple way to enable that?
<shka_> attila_lendvai: you are asking because a system does not load or what?
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<jmercouris> any way to a suppress "WARNING: redefining XYZ"
<jmercouris> when I know that I am explicitly wishing to redfine something?
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<Xach> attila_lendvai: it only hooks in when using quickload
<Xach> that establishes a handler for the system-not-found error
<attila_lendvai> shka_, i'm changing code (hu.dwim.asdf) and i don't want to regress it, and it's not trivial for me to test it right now.
<attila_lendvai> Xach, thank you for clarifying it! do you have any plans of adding/supporting a find system hook ala the discussion under one of the :defsystem-depends-on issue?
<Xach> No plans
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<attila_lendvai> Xach, the reson is that sometimes it's much more convenient to sideffect the image at one point, and just fire the macinery, as opposed to messing at random different places to (optionally) use quickload when available...
<phoe> jmercouris: you can try to unbind it first
<attila_lendvai> Xach, i've written several build.sh scripts now that uses ql (thanks a whole lot BTW!). some of them optionally using ql when available, otherwise relying on the user's config. some others override the user's config and do (quasi-)reproducible builds.
<Xach> Ok
<jmercouris> phoe: true
<phoe> so makunbound for symbols, fmakunbound for functions, setf find-class nil for classes, ...
<jmercouris> I was hoping for some (declare ...) magic
<jmercouris> maybe I can write a macro...
<jmercouris> how about generic functions same as fmakunbound?
<phoe> GFs are bound in the function namespace, so yes
<jmercouris> OK
<phoe> they're functions
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<jmercouris> hai
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<ldb> good evening
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<pp> hi
<pp> what is best lisp?
<Xach> pp: common
<ldb> not common
<pp> interesting...
<phoe> maybe the real best lisp is the friends we make along the way
<phoe> but, anyway!
<phoe> pp: #lisp is a Common Lisp channel, you could possibly try ##lisp for a channel for all dialects
<pp> ok!
<pp> do any of you use scrotwm?
<phoe> oh
<phoe> I think I understand now
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<ldb> well, it reminds me the joke about Coq
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<phoe> which is likely the reason they're discussing changing the name
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<ldb> is it possible to get the file list under a dir via http?
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<ldb> i'm looking for tools making a emacs elpa mirror via http.
<luis> ldb: maybe #emacs can help
<ldb> don't know what ql systems to use to write this thing in CL.
<luis> ldb: drakma, possibly
<ldb> luis: they uses an emacs lisp package, which doesn't support parallel download.
<ldb> luis: thanks
* ldb starts to learn http today
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<luis> ldb: you will learn that plain HTTP has no standard way to list a directory
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<ldb> we used to use rsync. recently for unknown reason the upstream rsync servies are down
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<flip214> phoe: why did you kick? Asking about "A minimalistic tiling Window Manager for X11." is that bad?
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<Bike> cos it looks like "scrotum"
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<phoe> a person nicknamed peepee asking about a scrotum tripped my personal troll filter
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<flip214> hmmm, I didn't have that sensitivity level
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<phoe> maybe you're right though, I've had my own sensitivity levels put to some tests as of late
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<Bike> oh, in fact they renamed it to spectrwm
<Bike> in 2012.
<phoe> good move
<Bike> also it's written in C. weird. i guess pp could have been serious but talking about something weird.
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<flip214> ah, stumpwm is the CL one
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<Josh_2> Hey all
<Josh_2> Is there a native lisp library I can use to resize images?
<Josh_2> If not I will just call out to ffmpeg
<tychoish> Hi Josh2
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<beach> Maybe "opticl"?
<tychoish> https://github.com/CodyReichert/awesome-cl#graphics I always just check lists like this
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<Josh_2> I imagine I could do it with opticl
<Josh_2> I can do it with opticl there is an example where they resize an image :)
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<Josh_2> I doubt it can resize gifs though
<Josh_2> ahh thats a bummer
<Xach> Josh_2: when i was resizing a lot of images, i used run-program and imagemagick.
<Xach> it worked fine for my scale.
<Josh_2> Does imagemagick work with gifs?
<Xach> Josh_2: yes
<phoe> t
<Josh_2> Did you use cl-magick?
<Josh_2> or cl-imagemagick
<Xach> No. I used run-program.
<Josh_2> right you literally just wrote that xD
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<Shinmera> There's also https://shinmera.github.io/trivial-thumbnail/ which uses im underneath
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<contrapunctus> Would a native Lisp library for encoding/decoding media formats (e.g. FLAC, PNG, WebM) be of any help to the community? Or is preferable to wrap C libraries?
<Xach> contrapunctus: opticl does a lot of that.
<Xach> contrapunctus: i don't know how much is in pure lisp. pure lisp code for everything would be nice.
<aeth> contrapunctus: it makes it easier to package programs
<aeth> (when you don't use a C library, I mean)
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<Shinmera> contrapunctus: FLAC and PNG already have native ones. WebM or any video format? Good fuckin' luck.
<Shinmera> contrapunctus: I'd like a native decoder for OGG audio, (preferably decoding to UB8 arrays)
<shka_> video formats are rather complex beasts
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<shka_> and also have strict performance requirements which does not make life easier
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<contrapunctus> Xach: I see. opticl doesn't seem to use any foreign libraries.
<contrapunctus> aeth: I see.
<contrapunctus> Shinmera: hm...I guess I could try that.
<Shinmera> But yeah, ultimately the hard part isn't necessarily even the decoding, though that often is hard enough, it's also that theres' very strict performance requirements to be able to decode and play back in real time. Especially audio has very low latency periods.
<shka_> contrapunctus: maybe something simpler?
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<jackdaniel> contrapunctus: draft a lispy protocol for video formats in cl and start with a ffi wrapper; then you may take a jab at implementing the same protocol natively
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<Josh_2> How do I create a directory in CL?
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<Josh_2> I am trying to create a directory in /tmp/
<phoe> Josh_2: (ensure-directories-exist #p"/tmp/foo/bar/")
<Josh_2> Thanks
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<didi> Xach: Idea: (ql:help) could list a small summary, in addition to the <https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/> pointer.
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<daphnis> what's the normal thing to do when one needs multiple but not all values from a function? i get these style warings about unused variables
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<phoe> daphnis: only bind what you need
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<Xach> declare ignore the rest
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<phoe> (m-v-b (x y z) (values 1 2 3 4 5 6) (frob x y z))
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<jackdaniel> (m-v-b (a b c) (foo) (declare (ignore b)) (cons a c)
<phoe> or what jackdaniel said if these values are not in the tail position
<daphnis> thanks
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<didi> Ah, nice use of a restart in lparallel: "you didn't started workers, but don't sweat, tell me how many you want and I'll be on my way"
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<shka_> didi: this is better handled by docstrings
<attila_lendvai> i can only see two reasons for a native CL code to decode complex media formats: 1) geek value for someone learning the tech, and 2) implementing the algo in a higher level language as a serious attempt to optimize it, or demonstrate a better implementation technique. for anything else? i'd just wrap the reference implementation.
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<shka_> you can give docstring for the whole package
<didi> shka_: What?
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<shka_> didi: it is lisp, if you can define it, you can attach docstring to it
<Shinmera> attila_lendvai: shipping of C libraries on Linux is a gigantic pain in the ass. debugging problems with them as well.
<shka_> and yes, this includes defpackage
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<didi> shka_: Sorry, I unsure what you're talking about.
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<didi> s/I/I'm
<shka_> about the (ql:help) proposal
<didi> oic
<didi> Well, my instinct was running (ql:help).
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<vydd> has anyone revived quickdocs?
<attila_lendvai> Shinmera, hence my use of of the word *complex*. for simple stuff, it can overall splify life, but for anything non-trivial there's no way to keep a CL implementation anywhere near the reference one in quality
<shka_> attila_lendvai: oh, there is a way, but there is no resources
<attila_lendvai> shka_, you must be young... :) it's all about resources.
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<shka_> young? thank you i guess
<shka_> anyway, yes it is technically possible, but so time and work consuming that in practice it is just impossible
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<jackdaniel> why can't we start wav file in the background and flip bmp files every 1/30s?
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<shka_> heh
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<didi> How do I keep a computation running after I disconnect from a swank server? I can reconnect to it (because of :dont-close t), but my long running computation is stopped after I disconnect.
<aeth> threads?
<didi> aeth: Good idea.
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<didi> Great. And there she goes. Thank you, aeth.
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<Josh_2> How do I stop Parenscript from adding a number to the end of some variable names?
<Josh_2> https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/2390#2390 this is my PS code, PS keeps adding a number to var 'stib-container' making it something like stibContainer12
<Josh_2> meaning the next variable which references stib-container doesn't work
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<phoe> let*?
<phoe> cl:let won't allow you to access previously bound variables, unlike cl:let*
<phoe> so I expect parenscript's versions to do the same thing
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<kagevf> Josh_2: I was able to get rid of the number if I removed the extra parentheses you had around the value being assigned to stibContainer .... like this:
<kagevf> Josh_2: (let ((stib-container (@ document get-element-by-id) (ps:lisp "123")))
<kagevf> (stibs (ps:@ stib-container children)) (search-bar ((ps:@ document get-element-by-id) (ps:lisp "abc"))) (search-bar-val ((ps:@ search-bar-id value))))
<kagevf> so where you had this: (let ((stib-container (@ document get-element-by-id) (ps:lisp "123")))
<kagevf> ((ps:@ document get-element-by-id) (ps:lisp sticker-container-id)))
<kagevf> try removing the surrounding parentheses
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<pp2> I got kicked earlier and i don't know why. I said scrotwm but i meant to ask about stumpwm. I am confused about what happened and sorry if i offended people
<pp2> stumpwm is a wm for x that uses cl
<phoe> pp2: woop, sorry about that
<phoe> let me unban...
<phoe> OK, should be good now; sorry about that, my fingers are too trigger happy at times
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<phoe> there is a dedicated #stumpwm that you might want to join
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<nij> Why instead of create-server on the fly, kitnil chose to embed that in a thread? Is there an obvious advantage? https://github.com/kitnil/dotfiles/blob/master/dot_stumpwm.d/swank.lisp
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<Bike> if you have a nil communication style create-server will just loop forever
<Bike> so you could avoid that with a thread, but you could also just change the communication style so that swank handles it for you
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<nij> when using the thread method, it's equivalent to using a ___(?) communication style?
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<nij> I've been reading yeah. But the thread method is a work around. I wonder what that equates to.
<Bike> :spawn
<Bike> roughly
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<nij> I tried.. but am still confused.
<nij> AFAIK, (make-thread fun1) will create a thread that runs fun1.
<nij> Upon fun1 returns, the thread ends.
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<nij> So if nothing special happen (make-thread fun1) is almost like (fun1)
<nij> Then there's really not a difference between
<nij> and
<nij> (funcall (lambda () (swank:create-server :port (parse-integer port) :dont-close t)))
<nij> (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (swank:create-server :port (parse-integer port) :dont-close t))
<nij> and
<nij> (swank:create-server :port (parse-integer port)).. no?
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<nij>
<Bike> consider the difference between (loop) and (make-thread (lambda () (loop)))
<nij>
<nij> yeah the only difference seems that it can run parallelly
<Bike> meaning the make-thread version will not hang, yes.
<nij> oh! it could be more robust indeed
<nij> even if it hangs, it hangs in itself
<nij> thanks :)
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