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<struktured>
oracle OCI api...not a fan....NOT a fan
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<companion_cube>
j0sh: I think Random isn't a good fit for crypto-grade randomness
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<yminsky>
Does anyone have suggestions for debugging one's js_of_ocaml code?
<yminsky>
One very simple example that came up that wasn't clear to me how to handle was a stack overflow. Figuring out which bit of OCaml code is responsible for your stack overflow isn't obvious.
<yminsky>
(since in javascript, it gets assigned to line 1)
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<yminsky>
(or rather, because the javascript generated by js_of_ocaml is all slammed on to one line.)
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<yminsky>
Hmm. I should have googled more effectively. I think the right solution is clear enough from the docs: use -noinline and -pretty. I'll give that a shot.
<reynir>
I think there's an option to output "pretty" javascript which might help a bit with the line problem
<reynir>
heh, too slow :)
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<BitPuffin|osx>
is there anything like https://github.com/andrenth/ocaml-uint but for non-unsigned integers? since I believe ocaml lacks for example int16
<cmtptr>
anti-dis-non-unsigned
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<BitPuffin|osx>
yeah I know
<BitPuffin|osx>
signed :P
<BitPuffin|osx>
I realized it after I wrote, but I didn't wanna spam the channel with corrections
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<yminsky>
Having tried out the "pretty" javascript, it's still pretty hard to decode. Anyone know if there's a way to tie it to OCaml source lines?
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<ggole>
yminsky: -sourcemap, I think
<ggole>
Probably needs some other fiddling about to work
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<Drup>
yminsky: and you can enable sourcemaps
<Drup>
(and --debug-info)
<Drup>
woops, to late
<Drup>
ggole: sourcemaps should work fine
<Drup>
yminsky: what are you fiddling with jsoo ? :]
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<tokenrove>
BitPuffin|osx: you can use ctypes to construct various sizes of signed integers, but that may not be useful to you since you have to allocate them on the heap
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<mcc>
Drup: So FYI I am going to be in Paris, um, tomorrow!
<Drup>
mcc: Oh :O
<Drup>
until when ?
<mcc>
Tuesday morning.
<mcc>
I am travelling to Nuremburg, but I am doing a layover in France.
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<Drup>
when are you doing there ? :)
<mcc>
I'm going to Nuremburg for work. I am going to France for no reaosn at all. It is almost an accident :)
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<Drup>
hum, if you want we can have a drink. companion_cube, adrien ?
<companion_cube>
tomorrow I'm at my parents' :p
<mcc>
if you would like to meet up I have no other plans!
<mcc>
i do not drink but i am happy to go hang out with people while they drink.
<Drup>
You do not drink at all ? Are you a cactus ? :D
<mcc>
i do not drink alcohol except occasional times.
<Drup>
I didn't mention a specific beverage on purpose :3
<mcc>
ok, then i'll drink ^_^
<mcc>
drup: by the way, while i have your attention. someone (you?) said that ocaml-ctypes exposes the ctypes and/or libffi FFI functions directly and you don't have to use the ocaml combinators. is that correct?
<mcc>
which module would have that stuff within ocaml-ctypes?
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<mcc>
Cool.
<mcc>
I assume the normal ctypes library documents it
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<BitPuffin|osx>
tokenrove: hmm yeah I dunno, that doesn't sound great. Though I think actually probably the uint thing does similar stuff
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<yminsky>
Drup: What are source maps, and how does one enable them?
<yminsky>
Drup: oh, and I'm playing around with jsoo for doing charting from OCaml. Javascript seems to reliably have the nicest charting libraries.
<Drup>
yminsky: "js_of_ocaml --help"
<Drup>
(it's a thing :D)
<yminsky>
Hah! It wasn't mentioned in the online jsoo docs...
<yminsky>
Hmm. I'm a complete newbie at javascript; how does one actually take advantage of the source map? It's not obvious from Chrome's javascript debugger....
<Drup>
the browser should pick up the sourcemaps and do the appropriate thing
<yminsky>
Oh, is it generating the line-number comments? Sadly, the ones I'm looking at look like this: /*<<?>>*/
<yminsky>
Drup: what's the appropriate thing? Showing the original ML source? Does the browser actually have access to that?
<Drup>
at least the locations from the ML source
<Drup>
I think there is a bug about that. I'm sorry, I don't use them quite often :/
<yminsky>
Do you use jsoo much? Or do you just never have runtime errors?
<yminsky>
(Well, rarely, I suppose?)
<Drup>
I rarely have runtime errors
<yminsky>
I'm surprised. I would have thought that writing wrappers to dynamically typed libraries would be pretty error prone. That gives me some hope.
<Drup>
you can handle those errors in OCaml land
<Drup>
see Js.coerce
<Drup>
but you hardly ever use that anyway
<Drup>
binding to js libraries is a job you do once, you test it, and then you isolate it somewhere and you can build stuff on top of it later
<yminsky>
Fair enough. I look forward to learning more.
<Drup>
taking advantage of hhugo's presence ? :)
<yminsky>
Hugo has been helping us get javascript set up nicely for our internal build, but this is stuff I"ve been doing on my own.
<Drup>
ok
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<Drup>
yminsky: what is it exactly, if you don't mind the curiosity ? :p
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<reynir>
I couldn't figure out how to use sourcemaps in my browser
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* MercurialAlchemi
grabs some popcorn while reading eatonphil's blog posts
<Drup>
:D
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<MercurialAlchemi>
wow, he got stabbed by a dagger of +10 common sense and +5 humility?
<MercurialAlchemi>
(this is also gets to show that people will upvote anything without looking at it, whether on github or HN)
<Drup>
yep
<Drup>
as long as it's pretty
<cmtptr>
can I upvote scarlett johansson?
<MercurialAlchemi>
Is she on github?
<cmtptr>
I don't know but I think she's pretty
* MercurialAlchemi
upvotes the blog post for good measure
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: Furl looks interesting
<MercurialAlchemi>
though the ~$ looks funny
<Drup>
yeah
<Drup>
that was the sacrifice to the value restriction
<Drup>
let (~$) f = f ()
<Drup>
I don't like it, but I can't find another way
<MercurialAlchemi>
does it handle query parameters of type list (eg, ?foo=1&foo=2 )?
<Drup>
yes, but with the form foo=1,2
<MercurialAlchemi>
?foo=1,2 then?
<Drup>
yes
<MercurialAlchemi>
ah
<Drup>
that could be fixable.
<Drup>
A bit tricky
<Drup>
but the the routing engine should change
<Drup>
the current version is a hack
<MercurialAlchemi>
it's a useful idiom from time to time
<Drup>
(the other solution is to preprocess one into the other, obviously)
<MercurialAlchemi>
I suppose that the engine matches ?foo=1&bar=2 even if the route is ?bar=2&foo=1
<Drup>
yeah
<MercurialAlchemi>
(well, the route wouldn't have values but you see what I mean)
<Drup>
that wouldn't be very useful otherwise
<MercurialAlchemi>
indeed
<MercurialAlchemi>
but I don't know how advanced it is yet
<Drup>
It's currently done by regex magic.
<MercurialAlchemi>
there is an xkcd for that
<Drup>
:D
<Drup>
well, except I use Re's combinators, so it's not a short and non-humanely-understandable syntax.
<MercurialAlchemi>
but the parameters are still split individually before being examined?
<MercurialAlchemi>
otherwise the route won't match if unknown parameters are present
<Drup>
you can have a wildcard for unknown parameters
<Drup>
so you choose if the route will match or not, when there are unknown parameters
<MercurialAlchemi>
ah, interesting
<Drup>
the goal is not really to be opinionated about how a routing endpoint should be, I don't really care how you design your endpoints :p
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, you want to allow for cache-busting "garbage" parameters
<MercurialAlchemi>
for instance, ExtJS uses cache-busting parameters per default
<Drup>
yeah, I'm not going to make that kind of choice for you
<MercurialAlchemi>
ExtJS is not a routing engine
<MercurialAlchemi>
it's a rich client JS framework
<Drup>
furl can work both ways
<Drup>
it can parse or create urls
<MercurialAlchemi>
but it's going to add these parameters when it makes AJAX calls
<MercurialAlchemi>
so if it hits a web service with Furl, per default the route will not be matched, is this correct?
<Drup>
well, there is no "default"
<Drup>
there are two "empty query" combinators
<Drup>
nil and any
<Drup>
you choose the one you want
<MercurialAlchemi>
hmm
<MercurialAlchemi>
ah, I see
<MercurialAlchemi>
you *have* to use one of them in order to have a well-formed route?
<Drup>
yes
<Drup>
this library is going to be a pain to document
<Drup>
which is probably a sign that it's a tad too complicated
<MercurialAlchemi>
that's often a problem when you want to offer nice dsls
<Drup>
well, in this case, it's more a problem of :gadts:
<Drup>
Also, I think there are modularity issues
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<MercurialAlchemi>
how so?
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<Drup>
well, there are two parts. 1) defining some stuffs with atoms only can be annoying and the more I go, the less I'm convinced about the atom/converter separation 2) "if parameter foo = "bla" then you must add parameter bar" is not nicely handled
<MercurialAlchemi>
an atom being a url fragment, eg /atom/?
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: or a query fragment
<Drup>
(well, a query fragment is an atom plus a name)
<MercurialAlchemi>
I see
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<MercurialAlchemi>
but anyway, it looks pretty good, I'd say
<MercurialAlchemi>
a nice routing system is important
<Drup>
that's why I'm trying to get it right :p
<MercurialAlchemi>
(though I still want resource traversal too :) )
<Drup>
ressource traversal ?
<MercurialAlchemi>
imagine that you have companies and employees
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<MercurialAlchemi>
you want to expose urls like /companies/$comp_id/employees/$emp_id
<Drup>
yeah, and ?
<MercurialAlchemi>
in this context, you have two resources, companies and employees
<Drup>
what is the issue exactly ?
<Drup>
that's ... really trivial
<MercurialAlchemi>
something like Jersey (Java REST framework) lets you create a CompanyResource with a matcher for /companies/$comp_id
<Drup>
oh, you want to be able to have the permutation too ?
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, I want it to be a tree
<MercurialAlchemi>
eg, if you can't get the company from the database, no need to bother with the rest
<Drup>
rel/"companies"/%Int/"employees"/%Int
<Drup>
(in furl)
<Drup>
you get two ints, you query whatever database you have
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<MercurialAlchemi>
in Jersey, you'd have actually four classes, CompaniesResource (can match /companies to return a list of companies, and /companies/$comp_id which returns a CompanyResource), a CompanyResource (can match GET to return a company, can match /employees to return an EmployeesResource), an EmployeesResource (can match GET to return all employees, can match $comp_id to return an EmployeeResource), and Emp
<MercurialAlchemi>
loyeeResource (can match GET to return an employee)
<Drup>
that would be four routes in furl
<Drup>
you don't have to bother "tree-ifying" it, the routing engine would do that for you
<MercurialAlchemi>
but tree-fying is great
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<Drup>
why ? the routing engine will do it better than you
<MercurialAlchemi>
because it's not only about routing
<Drup>
yes it is, the four functions have pretty much nothing in common except semantics
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<Drup>
you could lay them out nicely in your code if you want, but there is no reason to explicitly share subpaths
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<MercurialAlchemi>
when CompaniesResource matches /companies/$comp_id, it's going to find a company with the ID in the DB, and either 404 or create a new CompanyResource with a company field
<MercurialAlchemi>
but the point is that CompanyResource does not need to know anything about what's up the hierarchy
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<Drup>
neither does the function triggered on the /"companies" route in furl
<MercurialAlchemi>
you want to expose individual companies with five different parent resources? just have methods returning CompanyResource with the right matcher in five locations, the tree below is taken care of
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I guess you could do that in Furl manually too, but having an entire system base around that is really powerful
<Drup>
what ? No
<MercurialAlchemi>
no to what?
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<Algebr>
I'm having a strange situation with oUnit2. I have ctypes based code that works correctly on its own but when using it with ounit2 its failing in the c linked code. I don't even know how to go about debugging this.
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<Druup>
MercurialAlchemi: I got disconnected:
<Druup>
I don't understand :|
<Druup>
if you have other more complicated examples in mind, tell me, because I don't understand the issue
<Druup>
the example you gave is easy to do with a similar or lower complexity of what you described (mostly functional instead of OO, but that's all)
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<Algebr>
So I guess I will skip oUnit for now..
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Druup: well, obviously that's a trivial example, but as the depth of the tree increases, having this kind of system becomes more interesting
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<Druup>
MercurialAlchemi: the thing is, I still don't understand what's the specificy of the system except "one class by endpoint"
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<MercurialAlchemi>
it makes the tree nature explicit, and it ties your data to your endpoint handler
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<MercurialAlchemi>
and a resource may not even be an endpoint handler, actually
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<Druup>
I'll just show you how it would be with furl and you will tell me how it's not the same thing
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<MercurialAlchemi>
eg, CompaniesResource may not match an entire URL, but just create a CompanyResource when matching /companies/$comp_id
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<Druup>
that would be harder to do, right
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<Algebr`>
Got disconnected. I'm really surprised the unix module doesn't even have a function to delete a non empty directory
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<MercurialAlchemi>
er, well
<MercurialAlchemi>
the stdlib's file manipulation functions are a farce
<Druup>
(that's not exactly correct, you would need a function to transform the return stuff in whatever return type you want, but good enough here)
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<Algebr`>
(anyone have suggestions on the oUnit problem I have....I really wanted to use oUnit)
<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: right
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<MercurialAlchemi>
but that's not quite that, one of the things that makes the resource traversal idea powerful is that you can plug your endpoints anywhere
<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: I could technically add a tree api on top of that, but really it's just sugar
<MercurialAlchemi>
because each resource only matches a part of the URL
<Drup>
or, so that's not what you said at the beginning.
<MercurialAlchemi>
I never claimed to explain things very well :)
<Drup>
yeah
<MercurialAlchemi>
(and it has other benefits, but the idea that the handler is isolated from whatever is upper in the hierarchy is one of them)
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<Drup>
well, it's not isolated, it needs to know the previous informations in the url to do it's job
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<Drup>
you need to know the company to query the employee
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<Drup>
you still need to bring everyone back together at some point to define the exact routing layout anyway
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, that's the job of whatever is up the chain to inject it when creating CompanyResource
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<MercurialAlchemi>
CompanyResource itself doesn't care
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<Drup>
that really sounds like spagetti to me, you are defining your endpoints in various places and the dependencies are not easily readable in the code in one central place
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<MercurialAlchemi>
well, yeah, your routes are defined in small fragments
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<Drup>
I see the use case you are trying to simplify
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<Drup>
but I really don't like this solution
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<MercurialAlchemi>
but even without going full resource traversal, something like Django's modular applications really work
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<Drup>
[reference to documentation needed]
<Drup>
:D
<MercurialAlchemi>
eg, your site has a routing file, which you can use to plug sub-sites which have their own routing file
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<Drup>
ah, yes
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<Drup>
I can do that.
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<MercurialAlchemi>
it's pretty good, because (with luck) you can have "plugins" for boilerplate
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<MercurialAlchemi>
also, it encourages good practices
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<Drup>
you have two way of doing it
<Drup>
either the sub-site exposes an handler and the main website call it
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<Drup>
(when nothing matches)
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<Drup>
or the sub-site exposes the list of route and you basically put all the routes together
<Drup>
(the second is probably much better)
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<MercurialAlchemi>
well, I guess as long as you can compose two routes to get a third route, you're good
<Drup>
depends which way you want to compose
<Drup>
alternative, yes, always
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<Drup>
concatenation is trickier when you have routes as types as furl's
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<MercurialAlchemi>
you'd need concatenation
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<Drup>
I have concatenation over path or over queries
<Drup>
but not over full routes composed of a path and a query
<Drup>
because that's pretty much untypable
<Drup>
The only way that would be typeable is if I didn't ordered query and path parts in the "holes" of the route
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<Drup>
and I'm not sure how I feel about that
<Drup>
(It's definitely possible)
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<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: could you try to open bug reports for idioms you would like to see supported (in one way or another) ?
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<vbmithr>
j0sh_: ok
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<vbmithr>
j0sh_: I really thought the RNG was reseeding itself
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<Algebr`>
Where is the plain string type defined in the Stdlib? I thought it was in Pervasises but its not and String.t is just an alias for string
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<vbmithr>
Algebr`: not sure it is defined anywhere, it's builtin
<Algebr`>
right but surely there should be like an external ...
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: sorry, was away momentarily
<Drup>
programming with so many gadts is a bit weird, the types are doing all the work for you, but if you don't rub them the right way, you can go to hell
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<MercurialAlchemi>
Drup: nice
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<MercurialAlchemi>
one thing I have also found useful is to be able to get a list of all routes
<MercurialAlchemi>
eg, for a sitemap
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<Drup>
ah yes, I plan to be able to derive a documentation from a list of routes
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<MercurialAlchemi>
another useful-but-tricky thing would be, given a route and named parameters, to be able to generate an URL
<MercurialAlchemi>
you want that to put all your companies in the sitemap :0
<MercurialAlchemi>
:)
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<Drup>
MercurialAlchemi: that's not tricky, that's the base concept of furl
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<MercurialAlchemi>
hm, right, you said it worked both ways
<Drup>
you can both parse and evaluate a route, so it can do both server and client with the same definition
<MercurialAlchemi>
well, in this case it would be useful to the server, but yeah
<Drup>
I should put it in the Readme.me
<Drup>
"like thirteen, furl work both ways"
<MercurialAlchemi>
it is in the readme
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<MercurialAlchemi>
I'm just hadooping at the same time, and unfortunately my brain doesn't parallelize that well
<Drup>
No, I meant the precise citation :D
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<MercurialAlchemi>
:)
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