ChanServ changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.1 announcement at http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Algebr> Is ocp-indent supposed to replace tuareg-mode or compliment it
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<Algebr> also, can opam show all the packages that are dependent on a given one? For example I want to know how many packages use cmdliner
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<struk|dtut> module Foo = struct include T include U end ... if both U and T define the same type t = ..., can I unify them to make Foo compile somehow? (I know it can be done with module types using type t := t pattern).
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<Algebr> what is the difference in lwt's foo_s vs foo_p functions?
<Algebr> and in between binds, should blocking code also be avoided? for example using print_endline instead of Lwt_io.printl
<Algebr> found the _s vs _p answer
<struktured> Algebr: I think you know answer to the 2nd
<Algebr> I found this, _p when the function returns a thread and calls are parallelised. but isn't this wording incorrect, shouldn't it say calls are concurrently.
<Algebr> struktured: I'm going to guess I need to use Lwt_io.printl still?
<struktured> Algebr: yeah.
<Algebr> Does lwt still basically use exceptions for errors?
<struktured> Algebr: I am not an expert on that but they have syntax extensions to catch them properly with the scheduler et al. factored in
<struktured> and yeah its more or less exceptions
<struktured> plus a state indicator the lwt result monad
<struktured> *on the
<struktured> where is with async its done almost exclusviely with Or_error.t
<Algebr> merp, +1 for async already...
<struktured> I don't like Or_error's dependency on sexp but conceptually it has some merits. exceptions can still bleed into async coe too, depend on what libs u use
<struktured> *coe/code
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<Algebr> Sigh...some naming is pretty bad in Unix. For example Unix.h_addr_list is actually an array.
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<Algebr> I wonder if given that the stdlib will now have a result type whether lwt will move over to a results based error model although I imagine that would be a massive refactoring
<struktured> Algebr: no, its not their fault really.
<struktured> Algebr: http://linux.die.net/man/3/gethostbyname its just the name of the array in C
<Algebr> but they exposed it in OCaml, surely the can change the name any which way they want
<struktured> Algebr: I think it's in the spirit of a binding rather than an abstraction
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<whirm> hi everyone
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<struktured> hi
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<whirm> is there anyone familiar with building a crosscompiler around? (linuc amd64 to linux arm) I've built the native runtime/compiler before as the doc says, but I'm having issues with the next stage
* Drup points adrien.
<adrien_znc> put that weapon down!
<whirm> adrien_znc: :) I had a look at the android stuff you linked me to
<whirm> but afaics it's cross compiling the runtime instead of building a cross compiler, right?
<adrien_znc> you need to cross-compile the runtime
<adrien_znc> currently it's required to have a native compiler of the same version of the cross-compiler
<adrien_znc> meaning you already have a native runtime
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<adrien_znc> and it cross-builds one then
<whirm> oh, so I need both a host native and a target native before building the cross compiler?
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<adrien_znc> no
<adrien_znc> I meant
<adrien_znc> you build on x86 and target arm
<adrien_znc> you need a regular native on x86 that outputs for x86
<whirm> that I have :)
<adrien_znc> and then you build one from x86 to arm which is at the same version of the compiler
<whirm> this is the step I'm in.
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<whirm> the recipe that builds the x86 version works fine, I tested and it compiles stuff that actually runs and it's installed and on the PATH. looking at the generated makefile for the cross compiler, it is found: /var/scratch/cubieboard/poky_data/tmp/sysroots/x86_64-linux/usr/bin/ocamlrun
<whirm> adrien_znc: this is the generated makefile for the cross compiler
<whirm> this looks a bit weird to me -> ARCMD=arm-poky-linux-gnueabi-ar
<whirm> ASM, ASPP, etc point to the x86 binaries but that one doesn't. Is that right?
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<adrien_znc> don't remember well now =/
<whirm> heh :)
<adrien_znc> whirm: would need to see configure logs
<whirm> configure script: http://paste.debian.net/252037/
<whirm> config log
<whirm> build script: http://paste.debian.net/252039/
<whirm> adrien_znc: also, I'm patching the makefile template like so: http://paste.debian.net/252041/
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<adrien_znc> the last two patch hunks look fine
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<adrien_znc> call to ranlib, don't know
<adrien_znc> "ar rcs" is probably better than ar + ranlib
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<whirm> ok, I'm not familiar with that so I just did what the error message told me to :D
<whirm> will try ar rcs
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<adrien_znc> can you run configure with "sh -x" ?
<adrien_znc> chances are the .o has been done with the cross-compiler
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<whirm> oh man, I got blacklisted from paste.debian.net due to the configure log contents :(
<flux> :)
<flux> do you know what was the key?
<adrien_znc> whirm: pastebin.notk.org
<whirm> adrien_znc: it doesn't say
<whirm> sucks to have to paste manually, let's see if I can configure pastebinit to use something else
<adrien_znc> pastebin.notk.org :)
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<whirm> adrien_znc: I already pasted the log ^ :)
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<bernardo1pc> [WARNING] libexec is an unknown field in ~//.opam/4.02.1/build/ppx_deriving.2.1/ppx_deriving.install.
<bernardo1pc> have I done something wrong to my opam ?
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<bernardo1pc> (this causes ppx_deriving plugins not to be loaded in utop, for example)
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<whirm> adrien_znc: are you still here? :)
<companion_cube> which version of opam, bernardo1pc?
<bernardo1pc> 1.2.0
<bernardo1pc> (*buntu)
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<companion_cube> hmmm
<companion_cube> I have 1.2.2, I don't think it changes the format
<bernardofpc> (the warning was produced during compilation of ppx_deriving)
<bernardofpc> *during INSTALL
<companion_cube> I don't even know what libexec is
<companion_cube> gaaaah
<companion_cube> why did whitequark use topkg -_-
<companion_cube> https://opam.ocaml.org/blog/opam-1-2-1-release/ ok, it's experimental -_-
<companion_cube> meh
<bernardofpc> but that explains why 1.2.0 does not work
<companion_cube> yes
<bernardofpc> how can I install newer opam in *buntu ?
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<companion_cube> I have no idea
<bernardofpc> :/
<companion_cube> all this shit comes from 4.02.2 breaking retrocompat in a very annoying way
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<bernardofpc> ocaml breaks retrocompat ?
<bernardofpc> strange, though... this happened also in 4.02.1 (I tested both switches before complaining here....?
<companion_cube> I mean, ppx_deriving-2.1
<companion_cube> because 4.02.2 breaks some syntax for attributes
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<adrien_znc> whirm: unfortunately I don't remember what should look like what so I'd need to test myself and I can't do it for now
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<whirm> adrien_znc: ok, thanks anyway. Should I remind you some other day?
<adrien_znc> I most probably won't have time any soon: best is to open a bug report on the caml tracker
<whirm> adrien_znc: ok I will, thx!
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<companion_cube> I wonder whether I should open a bug regarding the ppx breakage of 4.02.2 :p
<adrien_znc> yes
<adrien_znc> did you know that you get half a pint of beer for each bug opened and a pint for each you solve?
<adrien_znc> well, sorry, the beer isn't for you then
<companion_cube> I still deserve a few beers :p
<adrien_znc> if you fix it
<companion_cube> I reported and fix a problem in Buffer, remember :p
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<rgrinberg> Drup: would it be possible to port ocamlscript to use ppx rather than its custom extension?
<Drup> I don't know, I don't know ocamlscript
<rgrinberg> Drup: an example of the extension is present here http://mjambon.com/ocamlscript.html
<rgrinberg> in case you aren't familiar
<rgrinberg> Yeah i'm trying to see if this is possible but I'm kind of unsure as to what the ppx node would be attached to
<rgrinberg> the `Ocaml.packs :=` in ocamlscript is juts free floating
<rks`> I think you can
<rks`> just use floating attributes
<Drup> [%%% ... ]
<Drup> (yay)
<rks`> (you don't need an extension node, you're not generating code)
<Drup> ah no, that's [@@@ ... ]
<rks`> (you just want an attribute)
<rgrinberg> rks`: yep ^_^
<Drup> (still yay for triple arobase)
<rgrinberg> thanks
<rks`> (yeah)
<rgrinberg> ok so it's possible in theory
<rks`> yes
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<flux> good evening!
<flux> anything cool new stuff in the ocaml front to offer a distraction?-)
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<Algebr> opam.ocaml is down for others too, right?
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<flux> opam.ocaml.. ?
<Algebr> opam.ocaml.org. try doing opam update
<nullcat> yeah
<nullcat> down
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<yuri`> hi
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<yuri`> opam.ocaml.org is down, is there any other repository I can use on its downtime?
<yuri`> I really need to install ocp-indent and merlin again
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<nullcat> checkout a copy on github and ``cd merlin && opam pin add merlin .``
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<Denommus> nullcat: well, I'll have to do that for every dependency, too, right?
<Algebr> are the powers that be aware of the opam issue
<flux> soo, is there an example Eliom code that uses 'the full stack', ie. persistent server-side process, javascript interface interacting with it, built with ocamlbuild?
<flux> I would love to get something working tonight 8-) with my Eliom experience from a few years abck..
<flux> hmm, this seems promising: https://ocsigen.org/tuto/manual/application
<flux> it is a bit sad that one wants to use code generators to get started with it :/
<nullcat> yeah i see... you should
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<Drup> flux: you'll explain me how you do what eliom is doing without the syntax extension when you are familiar with them :D
<Drup> (and yes, that's what you were looking for)
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<SGrondin> Anyone else unable to reach opam.ocaml.org?
<SGrondin> opam update is failing, and https://opam.ocaml.org/ seems down
<flux> drup, how's ppx and eliom coming up?-)
<Denommus> SGrondin: it is down
<nullcat> yeah it's down
<SGrondin> what a day, both npm and opam are having issues and between those 2 I'm stuck unable to do much at work right now
<flux> there's a way to mirror opam.. but I suppose it won't work without opam.ocaml.org/
<nullcat> flux: brilliant
<Algebr> this is painful.
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<flux> \o/ I just today installed eliom! <- precognition
<nullcat> ......
<nullcat> lol
<Drup> flux: eh, no time :(
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<Denommus> SGrondin: what a day! What a lovely day!
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<SGrondin> It's back but not loading. Time for the lunch break, I guess.
<Denommus> SGrondin: it's not back :P
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<adrien> hey, I need to get 5 reputation points on stackoverflow in order to be able to answer on meta
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<adrien> any tip?
<adrien> and, yes
<adrien> I _need_ it
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<Drup> random correct answer on a mainstream language question
<adrien> I'll need to get them accepted, right?
<Drup> no, being upvoted works
<adrien> ok, thanks
<Drup> I think
<adrien> well, let's see
<Algebr> Is there a way to avoid having to do opam init.
<Drup> No.
<avsm> apologies, the OPAM downtime is my fault. The restoration is in progress right now...
<avsm> You can opam init git://github.com/ocaml/opam-repository as a workaround for now
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<Algebr> avsm: thank you
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<flux> drup, soo, if you don't mind nudging me to the right direction: I have a JSON URI (of a service), I would like to retrieve it in JavaScript (and then use Deriving_Json etc to convert it back to what it originally was), any pointers?
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<flux> I guess it's better to use Eliom_registration.Ocaml instead here, though I'm not sure if it actually yet solves the issue :)
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<flux> also, I now have: {unit Lwt.t{ init_client () }} in the main service. how do I ensure that ever gets evaluated?-o
<adrien> I hate to have to ask but stackoverflow politics are horrible
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<flux> ah, Lwt_async of course..
<flux> s/_/./
<adrien> thanks all :)
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<Drup> flux: I didn't understood the first question
<flux> drup, simple terms: how do I move ocaml data from the server to the javascript client?-)
<flux> like the graffiti uses img ~src:(make_uri) .. to make an image appear
<flux> I need to use an array of data generate a dom object for me
<Drup> yes, Eliom_registration.OCaml
<Drup> or rpc
<adrien> ergh and now I can see that it's not 5 reputation points on stackoverflow that I need but really on meta.stackoverflow
<adrien> so instead of being able to answer important questions in time I have to play
<flux> hmm, that rpc approach seems simpler for me
<flux> but what I was actually missing was the Eliom_client.call_caml_service. thanks!
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<Drup> flux: rpc is basically a wrapping around OCaml services that hide all the annoying stuff
<flux> drup, I don't mind having _some_ explicitness in the client/server separation :)
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<Drup> well, it's explicit
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<sinelaw> how are mutable fields represented in ocamls type system internal abstract representation?
<sinelaw> e.g. is the mutability tagged on the field name in the record type, or is it part of the field's type?
<sinelaw> seems like the former
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<Dynasty> I'm trying to use ocamlbuild to get me started with the language. One of the things that I want to use is sexplib, however, when I try to run "ocamlbuild hello.native" it results in the error "Unbound module Sexplib", even though it's listed when I run ocamlfind. The code is here: http://pastebin.com/XB9e0ycK
<Dynasty> also I'm confused about the build tools in general
<Dynasty> there seems to be so many of them
<SGrondin> The build tools are by far the worst part of the ecosystem
<flux> drup, success! I never dreamt of actually achieving it in one evening, a very simple irc-web-gateway ;-)
<Dynasty> it might be an issue with my ocaml installation (?). Unfortunately the packages in the Ubuntu repositories are almost always out of date... for OCaml and Haskell. It's so annoying
<Dynasty> Erlang too
<flux> dynasty, debian packages are alright, but I think most everyone is using opam
<flux> opam gives the latest compilers and latest packages and a system to deal with them
<flux> no sudoing either
<flux> ..except for dependency system libraries
<flux> dynasty, what does your _tags look like, do you have one?
<Dynasty> I'm not sure what that means
<flux> dynasty, you should have file _tags in the same directory
<flux> its contents: *: package(sexplib)
<Dynasty> same directory as my module?
<flux> your invocation: ocamlbuild -use-ocamlfind hello.native
<Drup> flux: well done
<Dynasty> ah okay I didn't try the -use-ocamlfind
<flux> dynasty, you should have _tags in your current working directory, same as the source
<Dynasty> Same error when I tried -use-ocamlfind
<Dynasty> and there is no _tags file or directory
<flux> hence, you should make it :)
<Dynasty> still got an error http://pastebin.com/AjvuBWsW
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<Dynasty> no idea what to do
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<flux> dynasty, so your _tags now says *: package(sexplib) ?
<flux> actually not *: but <*>:
<Dynasty> aha it compiles now
<Dynasty> does _tags just give dependency information?
<flux> yes, it tells what flags to use for compiling and linking. in this case, it tells that to compile and link this you need to use the flags to include that package.
<flux> packages contain modules; sometimes packages and modules have the similar names
<Dynasty> is ocamlbuild the tool that I should be using?
<Dynasty> or is there a better build tool
<flux> ocamlbuild is fine I think, others may disagree :)
<Dynasty> what other options are there?
<flux> well, plain gnu-make, then there's omake
<flux> ocp-build, but that's for much heavier applications
<flux> with gnu-make you can use OCamlMakefile
<flux> which takes off a lot of the pain
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<Dynasty> flux is <*> the same as true?
<Dynasty> in the tags file
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<ollehar1> can I make ocamlbuild dump what commands it run?
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<companion_cube> look at _build/_log or something
<ollehar1> thanks
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<ollehar1> ok, can I make menhir dump what commands it run?
<ollehar1> wait, -v switch...
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<companion_cube> -menhir 'menhir --dump --explain' too
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<ollehar1> ok
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<Kakadu> Where can I find the docs about plus-syntax like `ocamlc -I +camlp5`? man ocamlc seems not to mention this...
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<Kakadu> Oh, me idiot. thanks
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<Denommus> in sedlex, how to match ANY character, except the '"' character?
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<Drup> Denommus: you have the complement operator
<Denommus> Drup: thanks, that's perfect
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