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<julianleviston>
Would it be possible to build a web app in OCaml that has the OCaml bytecode compiler in it and can read many modules of source code from a DB, and compile into either Js_of_ocaml or OCaml on the backend, then cache that compilation (in JS), and have it execute until that source code changed in the DB? Not interested in *how*, just if it’s possible to have a program have the OCaml compiler in it…
<julianleviston>
Specifically, I’m quite interested in the compiler being both on the backend (in my code) but also in the frontend (in my code)… so that I can write code in an editor that gets live-compiled into JS without touching the server if need be.. and also compiled on the backend if need be.
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<apache2>
technically, yes.
<julianleviston>
haha :) ok
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<apache2>
since you're not interested in the "how", I'm going to spare you the details of why it's hard :)
<julianleviston>
I just didn’t want to burden anyone with having to explain it to me if it wasn’t on their interest-radar :)
<julianleviston>
I haven’t used OCaml in anger on anything…
<julianleviston>
This is quite interesting to me because I’m building a system that has layers of execution (hopefully)… and some of those layers are in the frontend (in JS) and others will need to be backend (server)
<julianleviston>
… and most of the layers will need to be adjustable from the database… not the base layer, of course.
<julianleviston>
and some of them need to be shareable across both front and back.
<apache2>
on the backend you can just use the compiler
<julianleviston>
from within my code?
<apache2>
yes
<julianleviston>
I’d like (if possible) for my code to compile code from the DB, and cache bytecode for if it hasn’t changed.
<julianleviston>
and to have that code be hot-swappable.
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<apache2>
on the frontend you would have to make it work with a javascript environment, which means you need to implement all the functionality provided by an operating system (you can pick whichever you find easier and create a mock syscall interface, library loading interface, etc)
<julianleviston>
apache2: doesn’t js_of_ocaml do that?
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<apache2>
any library functions (from binary shared objects) would also have to be made available, either through something like emscripten (which compiles x86 to js), or similar
<apache2>
julianleviston: no, js_of_ocaml compiles ocaml to javascript
<julianleviston>
ew
<julianleviston>
apache2: yeah, that’s what I want to do… but from within a JS app.
<julianleviston>
(not actually JS - an Ocaml app running in the browser)
<apache2>
but it doesn't work out of the box with any library
<julianleviston>
having trouble parsing that sentence. Could you put it into the positive?
<apache2>
and I really doubt that it will compile itself to javascript
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<apache2>
julianleviston: sorry, yes: "js_of_ocaml works with some ocaml libraries, but not all."
<julianleviston>
ah much better :) thanks.
<julianleviston>
I probably don’t need all
<julianleviston>
or “I probably can get by with only some"
<apache2>
More specifically, the libraries that have a lot of callouts to C libraries may not work
<julianleviston>
most of the common things I need to do (server/client) will be simple, I think. It’s mostly so I can share types and code
<apache2>
the question is if js_of_ocaml can compile itself.
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<julianleviston>
apache2: well, I think it’d be acceptable to compile on the backend if it’s not possible to compile in the frontend.
<apache2>
I do not know, so you will have to try it, or wait for someone else's advice :)
<julianleviston>
ooh ML Modules are pretty sweet so far. :)
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<jcloud>
how can I disable warning 58 "no cmx file was found in path for module Curl, and its interface was not compiled with -opaque" in my _tags file?
<jcloud>
I tried adding true: warn(-58), but it still shows up
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<flux>
jcloud, did you try a more recent version of the package? it is an issue in the package itself.
<flux>
though it seems like a bug if the warning cannot be disabled
<jcloud>
flux: these are the curl and ocaml-scgi packages, which are both pretty old
<jcloud>
flux: should true: warn(-58) be able to disable them?
<flux>
jcloud, check if ocamlbuild actually passes the switch to the linking phase
<flux>
I'm guessing because all prior? warnings have been about compiling, not linking, it may be an ocamlbuild deficiency
<flux>
if that is the case, you are able to use myocamlbuild.ml to pass custom linking switch to make the warning go away
<flux>
though as all things related to ocamlbuild, I cannot quote a recipe off-hand how to do that.. :)
<jcloud>
flux: thanks for the pointers!
<jcloud>
I updated my local copy of one of them to install .cmxs now so one less warning. will look at using myocamlbuild
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<tacticalgoat>
Can someone tell me why ocaml over haskell?
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<malc_`>
tacticalgoat: lower barrier of entry
<tacticalgoat>
how so?
<flux>
tacticalgoat, some things are simpler to deal with (ie. side effects without monadifying everything upto the side effect), proper module system, nice object system if you're so inclined, super-fast compiling times, complete top-level (ie. you can paste a source file to the ocaml shell and it works), nice integration with emacs/vi with type query functionality (imo essential), a lot of research and "actual" projects based on ocaml targetting ocaml from ...
<flux>
... micro controllers to bare virtual machines and javascript, some nice syntactical features such as optional and named arguments, .. many reasons ;)
<malc_`>
flux: ghc's emacs integration is very good too (at least is seemed so to me)
<flux>
malc_`, well, might be, but can it nowadays find the type of expressions or sub-expressions?
<mrvn>
flux: microcontroler with ocaml? I'm missing 16bit support for that.
<flux>
mrvn, ocapic targets pic24 MCUs
<flux>
I think it's something like ocamlrun, though, not compiled
<flux>
probably more space-effective anyway
<flux>
s/effective/efficient/
<malc_`>
flux: can't say (never needed it)
<mrvn>
ocaml code can be quite compact
<flux>
at least with ocaml the ability to find types of sub-expressions is a tool I rely on. it's easy to rely on tools you have vs relying on tools you don't have ;-)
<tacticalgoat>
thanks!
<tacticalgoat>
thanks!
<tacticalgoat>
also is real world ocaml a good source to learn? other sources also appreciated
<mrvn>
90% of my work time I fix runtime (type) errors in python code. I so miss ocaml at work.
<flux>
tacticalgoat, yes, but sadly it was published exactly when ocaml was shifting from one preprocessor to another (a form of metaprogramming), so I'm not sure if things work as-is out-of-the-box with the most recent tools.
<flux>
tacticalgoat, I'm sure this channel will be helpful as always, thoguh ;-)
<tacticalgoat>
are there any updated sources?
<flux>
I think the authors are writing some revisions for the new PPX-based stuff but I don't know abot its schedules
<tacticalgoat>
I just got done setting stuff up with opam and installed core everything seems fine for now.
<tacticalgoat>
thank you
<flux>
good luck!
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<mrvn>
tacticalgoat: you don't need the preprocessor to learn ocaml. Just ignore anything which mentions ocamlp4 for now.
<mrvn>
I doubt it's used at all at the start.
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<tacticalgoat>
Ok. Thanks!
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<octachron>
mrvn, unfortunately RWO is quite carefree with its use of syntax extensions: syntax extensions are used as soon as chapter I.5 ( i.e. the record chapter )
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<SomeDamnBody>
would the function in the right half of the tuple return zero if a vertex was not member of a cycle?
<SomeDamnBody>
Or else, if not, what would it return?
<Kakadu>
it returns integer index, it is not related to any specific properties of the component (size, number of cycles, number of vertexes in it, etyc)
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<loocash>
Hi guys! I tried to implement binary search tree in ocaml and it does not compile. Compiler says that implementation does not match the interface what is very strange to me because those types should be equal. It seems I don't understand how ocaml works. Could you tell me what is wrong with that? http://pastebin.com/08LqUsUHhttp://pastebin.com/Q3FikvnBhttp://pastebin.com/Td9u1sMH
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<loocash>
Compiler says: Values do not match: val iter : 'a node option ref -> ('a -> unit) -> unit is not included in val iter : 'a t -> f:('a -> unit) -> unit
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<loocash>
and I have defined type 'a t as 'a node option ref in bst.ml
<justin_smith>
years ago I had a project working with lablgtk and lablgnomecanvas. I'm trying to make it work with opam, and I have the lablgtk and conf-gnomecanvas packages installed. When I run "ocamlfind ocamlc ..." to build the app it's finding the gtk stuff but not the gnome-canvas stuff, is there a specific issue I should look out for here?
<Kakadu>
Yeah, but compiler looks at the mli file
<Kakadu>
loocash: and not into .ml file
<Kakadu>
In the mli file 'a t and 'a node and absolutely different types
<Kakadu>
justin_smith: conf-gnomecanvas check system dependencies for OCaml bindings to libgnomecanvas. It doesn't compile lablgnomecanvas
<justin_smith>
kakadu: yes, but it does make lablgtk recompile
<Kakadu>
So you have not installed enough libraries
<loocash>
kakadu, So my question is why ocaml sees it as 'a node option ref and not as 'a t?
<justin_smith>
kakadu: according to aptitude libgnomecanvas2-dev is installed
<justin_smith>
kakadu: is there a way to get opam to be verbose about whether that binding actually got compiled? also, I see ml, mli, cmi, and cmx files for gnomeCanvas in ~/.opam/<current-system-version>/lib/lablgtk2
<justin_smith>
and a lablgnomecanvas.cmxa and lablgnomecanvas.cmxs
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<Kakadu>
AH
<Kakadu>
gnomecanvas is a part of lablgtk
<Kakadu>
how do you compile it?
<justin_smith>
kakadu: most recently "opam reinstall conf-gnomecanvas", which make lablgtk2 recompile
<justin_smith>
and I verified those artifacts are there - but during linking ocamlfind isn't finding the canvas stuff...
<Kakadu>
loocash: your code compiles for me
<justin_smith>
or is not providing it to ocamlopt or however you want to put that
<Kakadu>
maybe after some changes we lost backward compatibility and your source need some additional command line switch
<justin_smith>
I'm using ocamlfind ocamlopt -linkpkg -package lablgtk2,unix,str ...
<justin_smith>
kakadu: it could be - I'm using a totally different distro and everything now
<Kakadu>
can you add -package lablgtk2.gnomecanvas ?
<justin_smith>
I'll try that, thanks
<loocash>
kakadu, So how do you compile it? I just run $ corebuild ./test.byte all files are in the same directory
<justin_smith>
kakadu: ocamlfind: Package `lablgtk.gnomecanvas' not found
<justin_smith>
kakadu: thanks! making that lablgtk.gnomecanvas2 worked
<justin_smith>
I didn't know about using a . syntax in modules - I had tried gnomecanvas and gnomecanvas2 on their own to no avail
<Kakadu>
some lablgtk2/3 collision?
<justin_smith>
kakadu: nah, I just didn't know about the foo.bar for nested libs
<Kakadu>
okay
<justin_smith>
or whatever that means - maybe I'm overthingking it
<justin_smith>
is it a nested package syntax, or a naming convention, or?
<Kakadu>
subpackages
<justin_smith>
cool, I was not aware those existed
<Kakadu>
loocash: I use starightforward ocamlc
<justin_smith>
kakadu: looks like my code is invalid for newer gtk versions, but it builds so now it's just a question of reading the docs and tracking down the errors on startup, thanks again for the assistance
<octachron>
loocash, the compiler is complaining about the missing label "f" in iter
<octachron>
i.e., you should have "let iter t ~f=..."
<loocash>
octachron, Ok, now it works. Thanks.
<loocash>
octachron, How did you compile it? Before fix corebuild said nothing about label
<octachron>
I just looked at your error message
<octachron>
Values do not match: val iter : 'a node option ref -> ('a -> unit) -> unit is not included in val iter : 'a t -> f:('a -> unit) -> unit
<loocash>
ah, there is missing f: right
<loocash>
Thanks
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<Algebr`>
hmm, lablgtk seg faults on all the examples
<justin_smith>
Algebr`: good to know it's not just me!
<Algebr`>
lazy to do bug report
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<adrien>
first time with lablgtk?
<adrien>
is gtk itself initialized?
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<SpiceGuid>
No lablgtk segfault here (ocaml 4.03, lablgtk 2.18.4, intel 32bits).
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<justin_smith>
adrien: yeah, the error my legacy code gets, "g_signal_connect_data: assertion 'G_TYPE_CHECK_INSTANCE (instance)' failed" makes me think there's something uninitialized
<adrien>
check the lablgtk doc on how to do it
<justin_smith>
adrien: cool, the readme mentions lablgtk2.auto-init as a package, and that fixes it
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<SomeDamnBody>
Kakadu2[m]: Still there?
<SomeDamnBody>
Can anybody tell me, if there is a way to use ocamlgraph to iterate along the vertices between node to another?
<justin_smith>
or do you want every possible path, or?
<SomeDamnBody>
justin_smith: well let me explain the reason why I'm doing what I am
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<SomeDamnBody>
Basically, I have conflicting nodes that must be distinguished. These nodes are within nearby proximality, as in, I can calculate those that conflict by executing over all vertices and exploring the data that a vertice contains. The graph I have is from entry to body, and if the body of one vertice contains a value that maps to another vertice then they conflict
<SomeDamnBody>
It can be said, however, that for any vertice that is contained within a strongly connected component, that it is the one we want to keep. So, the others within the body of the one that is in the strongly connected component conflicting with it can be removed
<SomeDamnBody>
because for any given set of conflicts, we have that only one can be within the strongly connected component.
<SomeDamnBody>
So, what I concluded, was I would use the Components module to calculate exactly that
<justin_smith>
SomeDamnBody: I might be misunderstanding, but could this be done as a contraction?
<SomeDamnBody>
no
<SomeDamnBody>
Well, not that I know of
<SomeDamnBody>
And then explore from nodes that are the edge points of the scc
<justin_smith>
SomeDamnBody: my thought was that with components (that give you info about what is strongly connected) you could then do a contraction based on a predicate that knows about those components... maybe
<SomeDamnBody>
justin_smith: I think you have it in reverse
<justin_smith>
OK
<SomeDamnBody>
I want to keep all elements within the strongly connected components
<SomeDamnBody>
So, I start out with a set of data. Not all of it is valid
<SomeDamnBody>
One way to distinguish what is absolutely valid is to identify nodes that are members of strongly connected components
<SomeDamnBody>
So, I've been thinking up different ways to address this, and I think that what I have so far is not the best way to do it
<SomeDamnBody>
But I think I should be using the scc_list
<SomeDamnBody>
So, then iterate over all the elements in the scc_list and look at their bodies to remove invalid components...
<SomeDamnBody>
I think I just talked myself out of my own question lol
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<justin_smith>
well, glad my own misunderstanding helped you understand, at least
<SomeDamnBody>
Well, I was starting out with an approach that was flawed
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<SomeDamnBody>
So, basically, I originally used the scc method to build a function that would tell me if a vertex as scc member or not
<SomeDamnBody>
And then use that to look at all nodes that had two egress edges
<SomeDamnBody>
So, then keeping each node and it's egress node, look at if the node and it's egress point are in the same scc
<SomeDamnBody>
But that's not strictly the correct way to do it, because then I have to traverse from one edge to the other, and that's flawed, since I may strike some noise along the way
<justin_smith>
as an aside, I continue to be amazed by how general graphs are - in my domain a node with only two outgoing edges is almost always noise
<SomeDamnBody>
justin_smith: ?
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<SomeDamnBody>
Oh lol, well, in my scenario, two is the maximum number of edges that any node can have
<justin_smith>
right, which is why I'm mentioning how general graphs are, we can do very different things with them
<SomeDamnBody>
yeah
<SomeDamnBody>
At first, I was lost. I was like, why does he think my two edge vertices are garbage
<SomeDamnBody>
crap, I thought that the graph stored vertices as key value pairs
<SomeDamnBody>
man where did I get that
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