flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.03.0 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<roger_> howdy - quick question anyone can tell me what is the correct syntax to format a staged string "/some/path/%s" that is loaded from a text file and I want my code to do something similar to Printf.sprintf "this string %s" "example"
<mrvn> "/some/path/%s"?
<mrvn> Loading format strings from text files can't be type checked. You have to make your own runtime type checks.
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<roger_> does the Scanf module provide that functionality?
<mrvn> magically deduce what the user supplied file will in the future contain and generate the right type for it? No.
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<M-jimt> Is there an OCaml library for interacting with RethinkDB? My Google-fu is failing me.
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<flux> probably not then, I don't think it would be hard to find :)
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<bobry> Is it possible to "inherit" object types? E.g. if I have type foo = <x: int> and then type bar = <foo; y: int>?
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<flux> no
<bobry> I see, thanks.
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<dave24> can I caml_c_thread_unregister the thread which called caml_startup ?
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<dave24> nvm, i can just not do that by checking if caml_c_thread_register returned 1. -.-
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<Algebr`> in 4.03, are exceptions able to get inlined records too
<Algebr`> oh apparently yes, compiled
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<Algebr`> for a class, is there a way to create a locally abstract type for it?
<reser> Hey, I'm new to ocaml and having some trouble. I have a function that takes two arguments x,y and returns None or Some. For each possible x there is only one possible y that returns Some (and vice versa). Now given a specific y, I want to call the function without having to guess x - is this possible?
<Algebr`> for example, say you don't want the type of an instance variable exposed in an mli
<reser> Now that i wrote it out it feels like a obvious no
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<flux> try prolog :)
<flux> algebr`, hmm, do you need to expose the variable it in the mli at all?
<Algebr`> oh great, was able to hide it since nothing else used that type at all
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<Algebr`> ended up exactly what I wanted
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<reser> Types with * in between are tuples, but if there is only a space between, what are those?
<ggole> Applied type constructors
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<reser> Ah, i get it. Thanks ggole
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<Algebr`> can opam depext handle custom ppas?
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<seangrove> What is jsnew in jsoo, and how do I reference it?
<seangrove> Or better yet, how do I new `(new Date()).getTime().toString()` in jsoo?
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<seangrove> Algebr`: Or better yet, how do I new `(new Date()).getTime().toString()` in jsoo?
<larhat> seangrove: with ppx you can do `new%js constr arg1 arg2`
<larhat> let now = new%js Js.date_now in now##toString
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<grandy____> hello, I'm fairly new to ocaml and just wanted to ask some advice -- I'd like to port some code that is currently javascript (used in a react-native IOS app) to ocaml, and use it natively on IOS and Android... it appears that there are projects that allow both of these as targets for ocaml code ... wondering if anyone has any suggestions.
<chattered> grandy____: If that can be done easily, it's awesome!
<chattered> Sadly, I only muck around on Linux.
<grandy____> chattered: rewriting the code in ocaml should be easy, not sure about accessing native APIs though, there are a few that I need to use
<grandy____> currently some code is objc and used in the js code via the react native bridge... but I'd like to just implement it directly in ocaml and use the one native API it cares about (storage) ...
<grandy____> trying to figure out the best way to do a small test / proof of concept
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<grandy____> Drup: might be, I think bucklescript is an option for using ocaml and targeting js as well, However I was thinking that ideally my ocaml code would be able to target obj, java, and js.
<adrien> I think there's also the ocaml-ios stuff to access native APIs but from my point of view, cordova is a safer bet
<Drup> I'm going to be very blunt: don't use bucklescript.
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<Drup> (I can go into details if you really want, but I shouldn't: bucklescript is not even out of alpha, js_of_ocaml has been around for more than 5 years)
<grandy____> ahh yes i'd like to hear any thoughts you have, bluntness perfectly welcome
<chattered> Drup: I messed around with ocaml_to_js a while back, and was impressed with the idea of having a single set of sources that get auto split between server side and client side, but was sceptical that I wouldn't hit edge cases where it's not as automatic as I'd liked. Is it reasonably battle tested these days?
<grandy____> not using ocaml for the whole app, but i am thinking it might make sense to write the most accuracy-critical code in it, since it's far more elegant than the same thing written in js with static type checking and Immutable.js
<Drup> grandy____: I don't know much about having code that would work natively on the various plateforms. I heard the cordova stuff works quite well. Algebr` might be able to tell you things about iOS specially
<Drup> chattered: do you mean ocamljs or js_of_ocaml ?
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<chattered> js_of_ocaml
<Drup> (afaik, none of them do code spliting though, that's eliom)
<chattered> I didn't realise there were two now!
<chattered> Ah, yes, eliom.
<Drup> there isn't, ocamljs died quite some time ago
<chattered> I thought js_of_ocaml was just a subproject within the latter.
<chattered> Within ocsigen.
<Drup> yeah
<grandy____> Drup: Integrating with native libraries is not all that important, and react-native is fantastic in many ways, but at some point my data storage stuff needs to be faster and should be written for the native platform ... hence thinking about a language that can target c/objc and java ...
<Drup> js_of_ocaml is very reliable, a lot of people use it
<chattered> Drup: And ocsigen?
<Algebr`> what ios stuff
<Drup> Your fear about automatic code spliting seems a bit weird, since it's completely user directed with annotations :)
<Algebr`> seangrove: oh its in the example, basic
<Algebr`> there's gettime used
<chattered> Well the automatic part I was thinking of was the server-client communication via JSON.
<Drup> grandy____: I know ocaml can compiles to IOS and Android (you don't need to compile to c/objc or java to do that ...). I don't know more
<Algebr`> grandy____: not sure what the question was?
<grandy____> Drup: ahh ok
<Algebr`> yes you can write logic in OCaml and then expose it to the objc side
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<Drup> chattered: Yeah, I don't know how long ago you tried. There are no problems with that
<grandy____> Algebr`: yeah sorry I was vague, I guess looking more closely the mobile platform opam ports appear to be the best approach for integrating with native code on either one .
<Algebr`> Drup: a little bit harsh on BS, its certainly moving a lot faster than jsoo
<grandy____> Algebr`: cool, I also want to interact with a few of the objc libraries from within ocaml, not sure if that is possible, but I imagine it may be
<Drup> (As I said, all of it is user directed with annotations, it's difficult to imagine a situation where the compiler would get confused :p
<Algebr`> grandy____: yes possible and done
<Drup> Algebr`: frankly, no.
<grandy____> Algebr`: ahh excellent
<Algebr`> Drup: momentum is clearly on BS side.
<Drup> hype is, and he's quite better at marketing
<chattered> Drup: Cool. I was trying it out back in 2012, and it looked pretty awesome.
<Algebr`> one man is better at marketing than an entire project that has been alive for at least 5 years?
<Algebr`> I will say at least one thing, it seems to me that its easier to get BS to accept desires from actual users than jsoo
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<grandy____> I'm excited to be considering this, as I've wanted a chance to use ocaml for something for a while, and this may be an elegant and minimal (at first) way to do it for work :)
<Algebr`> grandy____: you should be! its very possible
<Drup> Algebr`: I really don't want to enter a sparing contest with you. If you think there is now momentum for jsoo, look at the changelog for the last release.
<grandy____> Algebr`: excellent, as I get started porting some of the code, do you recommend any sort of unit testing approach ...
<Algebr`> Drup: that's exactly the kind of off putting attitude that will doom jsoo
<Algebr`> grandy____: unit testing UI is kind of hard in any way right
<Drup> Algebr`: No, that's just the fact that you don't want to argue with you specifically :]
<Algebr`> I'm not arguing, I'm reevaluating whether its worth it to keep putting energy into a project that doesn't take nicely to end users desires
<grandy____> Algebr`: in this case just porting data storage stuff so no need to worry about ui
<Algebr`> grandy____: yea, then plan alcotests I guess
<grandy____> ahh ok
<Algebr`> What should I do about this: I want to release an opam package that wants a PPA
<Algebr`> but avsm said that opam depext doesn't know about ppa
<Algebr`> so release anyway and it fails on each build for PR
<Drup> Algebr`: that's *your* experience. In the meantime, there is a long list of feature wishes from the Coq people that were integrated into jsoo and now a allows coq to run in a browser. Various things from lexify have been fixed or integrated. jsoo now supports stuff for janestreet's libraries, etc
<Algebr`> or could opam take a dockerfile?
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<Algebr`> I think that if anyone is having a bad experience with a project then project maintainers should try to help out rather than say oh well, that's their problem
<Algebr`> perhaps that has become controversial somehow
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<Algebr`> I'll drop the issue
<Drup> chattered: 2012 was a long time ago, it got a lot of new stuff since then :p
<Algebr`> has anything docker related become integrated in opam??
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<SpiceGuid> Anyone knows who has invented the modified preorder tree traversal :?
<SpiceGuid> I can't find a reference :(
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<SpiceGuid> modified preorder tree traversal is often abbreviated as MPTT
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<SpiceGuid> alas, MPPT also means Maximum Power Point Tracking
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<engil> I do like how BS is very hype but yet everybody still use the good ol' jsoo
<engil> momentum is useless if it doesn't pull people in
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<ollehar> what tag number would I give to a block which is a reference variable?
<mrvn> same as a not reference I think
<mrvn> # type 'a ref = { mutable contents: 'a };;
<ollehar> ah, wait, I had a bug, started counting from 1 like some kind of n00b.
<ollehar> thanks mrvn
<mrvn> does let x = ref 1.0 use Double_tag?
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<ollehar> not clear from the manual
<ollehar> but
<ollehar> 1.0 is double tagged
<ollehar> so ref 1.0, block pointing to Double_tag block?
<mrvn> try it.
<ollehar> yes, just have to do
<ollehar> a := 10
<ollehar> first
<ollehar> a := 5
<ollehar> (in malfunction syntax)
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<mrvn> type 'a r = { x : 'a; } let make x = { x } let t = make 1.0. What is t then? Tag 0 or Double_tag? Potentially both depending wether 'a is known at that point? Does every code accessing a double check the gat to see if it was Double_taged?
<ollehar> and if it's an int it's not tagged?
<mrvn> it's a record. It's always tagged
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<ollehar> uh, is Double_tag subject for change? not sure I can access that constant via malfunction.
<mrvn> ollehar: who cares? Use the definition from the header file. If it changes your code gets the changed value.
<ollehar> which header file? I'm coding in ocaml.
<ollehar> unless it's a constant in ocaml, too.
<mrvn> not some C stub?
<ollehar> me?
<ollehar> no
<ollehar> it's a constant in Obj module
<mrvn> val double_tag : int
<ollehar> (module
<ollehar> (_
<ollehar> (let ($a (block (tag 0) (block (tag 0) "1.0")))
<ollehar> (apply (global $Pervasives $print_float) (field 0 $a))))
<ollehar> (export))
<mrvn> huh?
<mrvn> why 2 blocks?
<mrvn> thinking about it a (block (tag 0) "1.0") will segfault. doubles MUST be double_tag or double_array_tag.
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<ollehar> mrvn: one block for the ref ;)
<ollehar> this is for my php compiler, so everything will be refs.
<mrvn> The question is wether a ref 1.0 is a block with double_tag and 1.0 or a block with tag zero and pointer to a block with double_tag.
<mrvn> (in ocaml)
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<ollehar> ping drup?
<ollehar> or Drup
<ollehar> using Obj.double_tag I get
<ollehar> Fatal error: exception Malfunction_sexp.SyntaxError(_, "tag 253 out of range [0,199]")
<ollehar> from malfunction
<ollehar> :/
<mrvn> can you create a 1.0 and then print the tag?
<ollehar> with Obj?
<ollehar> true
<ollehar> one sec
<mrvn> with malfunction
<mrvn> instead of trying to construct one manually first deconstruct one the compiler creates.
<ollehar> I don't know how to create 1.0
<ollehar> he only added Int, not Double
<ollehar> it might be lacking, looking at the source. there's a module for IntArith, but not a corresponding module for float arith.
<ollehar> will write an issue and ask.
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<ollehar> let a = 1.0 in
<ollehar> let a_ = Obj.repr a in
<ollehar> let tag = Obj.tag a_ <---- 253
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<Drup> ollehar: hum ?
<Drup> (please just ask the question directly :p)
<ollehar> Drup: Sorry, think we solved it. Need feedback from malfunction guy.
<mrvn> drup: The question is wether a ref 1.0 is a block with double_tag and 1.0 or a block with tag zero and pointer to a block with double_tag.
<ollehar> actually, ref 1.0 has tag 0
<ollehar> (tested with Obj)
<ollehar> and !(ref 1.0) tag 253 (double_tag)
<Drup> so, for this kind of question, the answer is almost always "Use inspect"
<mrvn> so not optimized.
<Drup> # Inspect.Sexpr.dump @@ ref 1.0 ;;
<Drup> (DUMP (BLK/0 :TAG 0 :VALUES 1.000000))
<mrvn> Drup: that makes it look like a single block with a double. Not like 2 blocks that it actually is.
<Drup> float values are always boxed
<mrvn> Drup: how about [| 1.0 |]?
<Drup> # Inspect.Sexpr.dump @@ [| 1.0 |] ;;
<Drup> (DUMP (DBLA/0 1))
<mrvn> Drup: how about [| 1.2345 |]?
<Drup> mrvn: I'm not called utop :D
<ollehar> we need utop bot
<mrvn> just want to see if it forgot to print the "1" above as "1.00000"
<Drup> # Inspect.Sexpr.dump @@ [| 1.2 |] ;;
<Drup> (DUMP (DBLA/0 1.2))
<Drup> DBLA is a "double array"
<ollehar> so VALUES is an implicit block?
<Drup> ollehar: only float values, apparently
<Drup> the output could probably be improved
<mrvn> +1
<Drup> I would suggest a bug report :3
<mrvn> ollehar: VALUES sounds like the contents of the block
<mrvn> and (BLK/0 :TAG double <bits for a float>) is printed as simple 1.0
<ollehar> will write a bug
<Drup> inspect is a cool library, of which I pretty much use only 1 function. It does a lot of other nice things, it would make a great companion for any malfunction hacking
<ollehar> yeah
<ollehar> thanks for the tip!
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<ollehar> but seriously, why not have a utop bot?
<ollehar> with beer, and hookers...!
<ollehar> in fact, screw the bot
<Drup> (the truth is that I find everything that uses graphviz cool because :pretty dot: )
<Drup> (the dot output from inspect is particularly marvelous)
<ollehar> dot?
<Drup> graphviz
<ollehar> ok
<Drup> that's: Sequence.of_list [1, "a" ; 2, "c" ; 3,"aze" ]
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<ollehar> nice
<ollehar> strings are blocks, though :P
<ollehar> maybe should be called StringBlock?
<nicoo> ollehar: I used to run an instance of xavierbot, but the code was vile and it was a nightmare to secure
<nicoo> Making a sane(r) version with utop-like features would be nice, though
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<Bluddy[m]> very cool
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<ollehar> nicoo: ok
<ollehar> hm
<ollehar> going to bed, thanks for all help! bye!
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<Bluddy[m]> Does OASIS assume that your executable path can only be in one place? What if I have an executable that uses multiple sub-paths?
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