flux changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml MOOC http://1149.fr/ocaml-mooc | OCaml 4.03.0 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.03.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Denommus> guys
<Denommus> how is your .merlin file for eliom-distillery projects?
<Denommus> (using ppx)
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<SomeDamnBody> Denommus: ?
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<Denommus> SomeDamnBody: well, an eliom-distillery project might use ppx or camlp4
<Denommus> SomeDamnBody: I want to know how to configure merlin for such a project using ppx
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<SomeDamnBody> eliom distillery?
<SomeDamnBody> have heard fo either
<SomeDamnBody> of*
<Denommus> SomeDamnBody: do you know about eliom?
<SomeDamnBody> yeah I'm pretty sure that it's a web framework in ocaml
<Denommus> SomeDamnBody: eliom-distillery is just a project "creator". It has some templates for common eliom projects and creates the directory structure for them
<Denommus> SomeDamnBody: something like JavaScript's yeoman, though with a lot less templates
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<Algebr`> how do I do multiple explicit polymorphic type annotations
<Algebr`> ie the type parameters in : method foo : 'a. string -> 'a
<Algebr`> I want like: method foo : 'a. 'b. string -> ('a -> 'b) -> unit
<flux> 'a 'b. string -> ('a -> 'b) -> unit
<Algebr`> ahhh
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<sspi> is it possible to split a token into multiple tokens in the lexer? (I want to split >< into > and <)
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<lyxia> don't parse >< as a token then?
<companion_cube> if it's in OCaml lexer, no chance
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<flux> hmm, "If several regular expressions match a prefix of the input, the “longest match” rule applies: the regular expression that matches the longest prefix of the input is selected. In case of tie, the regular expression that occurs earlier in the rule is selected."
<flux> oh, never mind, I reread the question
<flux> and now I don't understand it :)
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<hannes> is there a workaround to make ocaml-4.02 and 4.01 (and 4.03) happy in myocamlbuild? I get "Error: Unbound value mark_tag_used" from 4.01, it looks like it used to be in Ocamlbuild_pack.Flags.mark_tag_used (now Ocamlbuild_plugin.mark_tag_used)..
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<mrvn> Do we want a gateway between IRC and Matrix?
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<Leonidas> mrvn: there is a matrix channel on ocaml?
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<Algebr`> hmm, why doesn't method! work with inherited class types
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<infinity0> oh man they changed the way you add sexplib.syntax to oasis :(
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<infinity0> does anyone know what i should update it to
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<Algebr``> is it sexplib.ppx now?
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<infinity0> oh ok, you add ppx_sexp_conv to BuildDepends: then use "[@@deriving sexp]" instead of "with sexp"
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<Algebr``> merlin has been becomeing more buggy lately
<Algebr``> the type inference for js_of_ocaml's ppx is crappy out often and class inference isn't that's great anymore.
<Algebr``> need to find verifiable test case
<infinity0> so what i said doesn't work, this compiles without error and seems to be a no-op:
<infinity0> exception Found_cycle of v list [@@deriving sexplolwtfbbq]
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<Algebr``> I would have thought it would be something just BuildDepends: sexplib.ppx
<infinity0> that doesn't seem to exist as an ocamlfind library
<infinity0> do you know which opam package that's in
<Algebr``> no, unfortunately I've never used the sexp stuff
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<infinity0> hmm, seems like what i did was actually fine, if i do it for ordinary types (and "deriving omgwtf" does give an error)
<infinity0> but doing it for exceptions, doesn't work for some reason
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<Algebr``> I don't understand issues related to this error: The universal variable 'a would escape its scope
<Algebr``> How do you get around this
<ggole> Get rid of the variable in some way, often by 'hiding' it in an existential
<Algebr``> what does existential in this context mean concertely
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<Algebr``> and apparently methods are able to get around this somehow?
<ggole> Methods (and record fields) can be annotated to be polymorphic
<ggole> That can help in some circumstances
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<ggole> As for existentials, GADTs let you express them
<ggole> eg, the 'a in type t = Foo : 'a t * 'a -> t is an existential
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<Algebr``> Drup: feature request for ocp-browser
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<Drup> Algebr``: with great pleasure, please post on the bug tracker :3
<Algebr``> Okay wow! never saw this error before: This simple coercion was not fully general. Consider using a double coercion.
<Algebr``> Drup: thanks, post on ocp-index right
<Drup> (note that neither me nor altgr work actively on ocp-index/browser, but I will happily help/review submited patches)
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<Denommus> Algebr``: Drup: what is the difference between merlin and ocp-index?
<Algebr``> I only use ocp-browser out of it
<companion_cube> like most people, I'd say
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<Denommus> ocp-browser introduces jump-to-definition and jump-to-declaration?
<companion_cube> merlin has jump to definition, that is for sure
<Denommus> oh
<Denommus> it's just for the command-line tool, then?
<companion_cube> I don't know
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<hongbo> how does ppx_deriving.show handle cyclic value?
<flux> hongbo, wouldn't recursion just work(tm)?
<flux> of course, not if the value is infinite
<hongbo> something like this `let rec xs = 1 :: xs`
<flux> in that case I'm certain it will fail
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<flux> in particular as 1::xs itself is a hackish extension of no real use..
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<copy`> Well, it could detect circular values, or is that not possible in OCaml?
<companion_cube> this is hard to do efficiently
<mrvn> that would require keeping a set of all values and physical equality
<companion_cube> ^
<hongbo> how does toplevel do this?
<mrvn> it just stops after a while
<mrvn> try the above `let rec xs = 1 :: xs`
<hongbo> # let rec x = 1 :: x;;
<hongbo> val x : int list = [1; <cycle>]
<hongbo> # x;;
<hongbo> - : int list = [1; <cycle>]
<hongbo> # 1::x;;
<hongbo> - : int list = [1; 1; <cycle>]
<mrvn> hmm, that is new.
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<mrvn> utop?
<companion_cube> the toplevel can do some specific magic, I guess
<hongbo> no, vanilla ocaml
<mrvn> The marshaling module always had cycle detection
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<companion_cube> e.g. if you don't allocate, you can hash pointers to make the set of traversed values efficient
<companion_cube> (if you allocate it doesn't work becaues values can be moved by the GC)
<mrvn> still O(n log n)
<mrvn> I don't see hashed pointers as being faster than just pointers
<hongbo> cycle detection is quite useful, I don't think toplevel printer is relevant to marshalling
<companion_cube> mrvn: well to check for cycles you can check in a hashtable
<companion_cube> instead of checking in a list
<mrvn> wait, you have to resort the set after every GC run
<companion_cube> and you only do it when traversing for printing
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<companion_cube> (although I wonder, to print you might call user-defined printers that allocate)
<mrvn> companion_cube: needs to be functional so you extend and reduce it in the recursion
<companion_cube> no, you can backtrack it
<hongbo> another question: I saw so many ppxes floating around, does any one try to do something like this: generate some runtime representation once for all, then write generics on top of it
<companion_cube> (same as the standard Hashtbl, btw, which is designed for backtracking)
<mrvn> simplest would be just keeping a list of values and searching that. recursion isn't usualy so deep that amlist becomes too long.
<companion_cube> (it explains the weird `add` behavior)
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<mrvn> Is there something like Gc.finalize that gets called every time a value gets moved?
<ggole> There are ways to do hash tables that work with relocating pointers
<ggole> Lisp implementations sometimes use them
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<flux> I wonder if there could be efficiency concerns implementing that
<hongbo> flux: for most ppxes, I don't care about performance
<hongbo> I am scared that currently most libraries depend on too many ppx, and it is versioned by the compiler
<flux> but it could be useful for avoiding registering gc roots.. though you still need to have some bookkeeping to make use of sch a callback
<flux> hongbo, I was talking about the Gc stuff :)
<ggole> I believe you pay a cost for the table entries, but not for regular values
<hongbo> haha
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<companion_cube> hongbo: I think it would already be better if there was an alternative, simpler AST for ppxes
<companion_cube> something that could remain much more stable, and designed so that ppxes would be easy to write
<hongbo> yea, I hate too many ppxes
<hongbo> a simple stable ast as api makes sense
<Leonidas> companion_cube: Isnt that basically what some library offers?
<Leonidas> ppx_tools or so?
<Leonidas> one could argue that ppx_deriving provides a limited subset of that
<mrvn> objects in ppx are horrible
<Leonidas> so just the lib has to be updated and the dependants automatically work on newer ocamlen
<companion_cube> Leonidas: no they don't, although they provide convenience functions and some metaquot stuff
<companion_cube> you still work on the compiler's AST
<hongbo> too good to be true
<Leonidas> what does Jane Street use? Don't they have aome metaframework for ppx rewriters?
<companion_cube> they have lots of ppxes, and their stuff seems to break sometimes :p
<Leonidas> i remember some post on composing multiple ppx rewriters
<companion_cube> also, they don't seem to care about long-term maintenance (just follow with the latest version of compiler/libs)
<Leonidas> yes, even forward compat is tricky on new ocaml releases
<companion_cube> yes
<Leonidas> because one of the 35 packages is not compatible and they all depend on specific versions
<companion_cube> right now I have a program that doesn't compile on 4.03 because of ppx_deriving_yojson :(
<Leonidas> ppx_deriving_yojson works for me on 4.03 afaik
<companion_cube> not with the most recent ppx_deriving, which is required by core_kernel, iirc
<hongbo> I think when we release libraries to opam, we should check in generated code instead
<hongbo> otherwise your lib will quickly get outdated
<companion_cube> right now people don't care about dependencies, apparently
<Leonidas> yeah, that one opam does not install b/c of some conflicta
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<Algebr``> Is there definitive list of Lwt modules that do work with jsoo and don't
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<octachron> Algebr, f you have more specific example for this error: "I don't understand issues related to this error: The universal variable 'a would escape its scope", please don't hesitate to send them my way (on https://github.com/ocaml/ocaml/pull/594).
<octachron> it really helps to have concrete example where documentation should be improved
<Algebr``> Oh nice!
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<Drup> Algebr``: everything inside the ocamlfind package "lwt" (and not the subpackages)
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<smondet> Algebr``: on top of what Drup said, there is `Lwt_js` in the jsoo stdlib
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<Algebr``> yea know about that
<Algebr``> thanks
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