lexi-lambda changed the topic of #racket to: Racket v7.1 has been released: http://blog.racket-lang.org/2018/10/racket-v7-1.html -- Racket -- https://racket-lang.org -- https://pkgs.racket-lang.org -- Paste at http://pasterack.org
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<selimcan> Is racket the ultimate language? :)
<aeth> What are you looking for in a language? Different languages are used for different things. I wouldn't want to handle text in C or write a game engine in Ruby.
<aeth> A Lisp, especially something Racket with its "#lang" feature, is a language for writing languages. So in that sense, Racket is exactly the opposite of an ultimate language.
<aeth> s/something Racket/something like Racket/
<selimcan> With #lang feature, it looks like that it can do anything, be anythin
<nisstyre> selimcan: yes, someone even implemented Perl with Racket
<aeth> selimcan: Any Turing complete language can do "anything", the question is if it does it well imo.
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<NeoHamled> selimcan: in my very limited experience it would seem the #lang feature is similar to other languages' macro systems (understandably) but that it has been evolved with the intention of creating languages with a complete range of syntax possibilities, which most Lisp-family macros aren't designed for, and which C pre-processor supports but very poorly
<NeoHamled> and so perhaps Racket is less the ultimate language, than the languag-oriented perspective is a very powerful way to view the practice of development
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<johnjay> i always wondered why lambda was the ultimate
<johnjay> maybe that's why!
<jcowan> Scheme is many ultimates, but one of the things it is the ultimate compilaton target.
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<selimcan> Am I right thinking that Racket functions don't support docstrings? Which can be then looked up with something like (doc foo) or (help foo)?
<selimcan> Pardon me for a newbie question
<soegaard> selimcan: Yes - but you can use raco docs foo to lookup foo.
<soegaard> rudybot: doc append
<rudybot> soegaard: your sandbox is ready
<rudybot> soegaard: http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/pairs.html#(def._((quote._~23~25kernel)._append))
<bremner> there is ,doc in xrepl
<bremner> also ,describe and ,apropos
<p4bl0> I may be wrong but I don't think selimcan wanted to lookup the documentation but rather to document their own functions
<p4bl0> like with Python's docstrings
<soegaard> Yes, Racket don't support that.
<p4bl0> it shouldn't be to complicated to implement it with a macro (which could either discard the first expression of the body of a define if it is a string and not the only expression in the body, or could add it to a hashtables with the name of the function as key, for example)
<bremner> sure, but given the standard lib doesn't work this way...
<p4bl0> right
<rain1> a good trick i heard to implement this is using a hashtable keyed by syntax objects of the function name
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<selimcan> <p4bl0> I may be wrong but I don't think selimcan wanted to lookup the documentation but rather to document their own functions
<selimcan> yes, the latter
<selimcan> thanks for the tips
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<selimcan> btw was that a deliberate choice to strictly separate documentation from code or just for historical reasons
<selimcan> ?
<bremner> I'd guess deliberate, but that's purely a guess.
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<ATuin> hi
<lexi-lambda> selimcan: there’s scribble/srcdoc if you want to mix them https://docs.racket-lang.org/scribble/srcdoc.html#%28mod-path._scribble%2Fsrcdoc%29
<lexi-lambda> but IME that is very rarely used
<ATuin> I'm trying to embed some racket code into a small c program but when linking i get lots of unidefined "rktio_*", any idea what could be?
<ATuin> *undefined
<selimcan> lexi-lambda, I see
<selimcan> thanks
<lexi-lambda> ATuin: you probably need to link against the rktio library, which is part of Racket (it provides a cross-platform I/O interface)
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<ATuin> mmm i don't find it in my system
<lexi-lambda> I don’t know enough about embedding Racket to provide concrete advice, but asking the mailing list would give you better help
<ATuin> i got the sources now, seems that rktio is in another directory :)
<ATuin> so maybe i just need to compile it
<ATuin> i will try otherwise i will post the question in the mailing list
<ATuin> thanks
<lexi-lambda> I’m not sure how librktio is normally linked into Racket
<ATuin> i got the official racket from the web and seems not to be there, so maybe it's an external "project"
<lexi-lambda> I think it is statically linked
<lexi-lambda> but then I don’t know why you would be getting undefined symbols
<ATuin> "cc -o embed embed_3m.o -lracket3m -lm -ldl librktio.a -lpthread -lffi"
<ATuin> this worked
<ATuin> after compiling the librktio from the source
<ATuin> it's in another directory
<ATuin> and i forgot to look for it there, so stupid of me :D
<selimcan> :)
<lexi-lambda> ATuin: are you using `raco ctool`?
<ATuin> yes, well i'm learning it
<ATuin> but still dont understand really well the flags :)
<ATuin> seems that first i create with raco a c file with racket/base encoded in it
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<lexi-lambda> ATuin: FWIW, on my machine (macOS) when I link against Racket.framework, I don’t seem to need to link librktio separately
<ATuin> mmm strange
<ATuin> https://racket-lang.org/download/ <- i got it from here and i can reproduce the problem
<lexi-lambda> what OS are you on?
<ATuin> linux, slackware
<ATuin> "On Mac OS, dynamic libraries are provided by the "Racket" framework, which is typically installed in "lib" sub-directory of the installation."
<ATuin> do you have it there?
<lexi-lambda> I do, yes
<ATuin> ok, on linux is not there
<lexi-lambda> well, I would not expect Racket.framework to exist on linux, since frameworks are a macOS thing
<lexi-lambda> but I would expect libracket3m.so to have the same contents as Racket.framework
<ATuin> hehe i know :)
<ATuin> I meant that in linux only libracket3m.a is provided
<ATuin> seems that by default only 3m static library is created / installed
<lexi-lambda> ah, interesting. I don’t have a linux machine handy to play with things, so I probably can’t help you any further.
<ATuin> and the librktio seems to be another project, so i guess it needs to be installed aprt
<ATuin> *aprt
<ATuin> ahh *apart
<ATuin> anyway the mystery is solved, so you guys already helped me :D
<lexi-lambda> I would still expect librktio.a to be linked into librkt3m.a, but that is a mystery I cannot investigate right now :)
<ATuin> yep, that's kind of weird and something i would like to investigate as well since seems that in the standard racket distribution for linux the symbols are undefined also
<ATuin> anyway i have stuff to play and learn, thanks
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