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<jcowan>
Removing checks in production has been compared to wearing a lifejacket during drills and then discarding it before you go to sea.
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<aeth>
On pg's claims... I actually do think a Lisp is faster to develop in, if you're starting from scratch. There are two issues: (1) it's probably at least 3x faster to develop in than C/C++ but probably less compared to something like Python so the advantage is less pronounced these days
<aeth>
and (2) notice how I said "starting from scratch". most code relies on libraries/frameworks/engines and isn't from scratch
<aeth>
If Racket is objectively 1.385x faster to develop in than Python (to completely make up a number), but Python has the library and Racket doesn't, you're looking at a net loss in time, so don't use a Lisp just to save time.
<aeth>
And, finally, static typing will make you take longer to develop, but you get more guarantees. Typed Racket will be slower to write than vanilla Racket. Does that make Typed Racket worthless?
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<FreeFull>
"Longer to develop" depends on how much time you spend afterwards trying to debug your dynamically typed code, compared to the statically typed code
<FreeFull>
If the statically typed language leads you to sufficiently fewer bugs/better design, then it balances out
<aeth>
Yes.
<aeth>
Of course, static types won't guarantee that, either.
<aeth>
I will say that my personal ime of "3x longer" for C/C++ is all of those extra bugs you only get in a language as low level as C/C++.
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<s455wang>
lexi-lambda: thanks for the Bipolar Lisp Programmer article btw, it expresses really well what I've thought for a long time
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<lexi-lambda>
s455wang: Racket is doomed and we’re all going to hell. :)
<aeth>
oh wow the original link to the bipolar lisp programmer I had in my bookmarks is now dead
<aeth>
I'd like to propose a simpler reason why Lisp libraries (almost) never get finished. The libraries that do get "finished" (at least with good documentation and polish) are used commercially, these days usually as FOSS infrastructure behind some server-based tech business.
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<colelyman>
I'm hoping to use Racket to write a GUI. I need to be able to package up the GUI as a standalone executable. Does anyone know the approximate size of a GUI package like this?
<colelyman>
I understand that it depends on the size of the code base, but any general comments would be helpful
<colelyman>
If I remember correctly, the Racket download is about 500 MB, but I assume that standalone executables only package up the necessary libraries
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<clacke>
androclus, lexi-lambda: Re: GNU, Guile, Racket and NIH, Guile is 2 years older than PLT Scheme
<clacke>
At the time of the "Tcl War", PLT Scheme did not yet exist.
<clacke>
Also Guile has embedded use as part of the requirement spec and Racket doesn't.
<clacke>
Racket does more than Guile now, 25 years later, because it has had more developer hours.
<clacke>
I would be delighted to see Chez, Guile and Gambit as interchangeable Racket backends. :-)
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<phoenixdarkdirk>
Hi there, I have a simple question regarding txexpr output. My code and problem description are at http://pasterack.org/pastes/97336 -> the essential problem is that "&tbody;" and "&tr;" are being rendered as plain text, rather than as DOM elements, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. Thanks in advance!
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<zenspider>
phoenixdarkdirk: I suggest you file a bug on pollen rather than asking here
<phoenixdarkdirk>
Thanks @zenspider
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<zenspider>
n/p
<zenspider>
is there a "cheaty" way of reaching into a module and grabbing something that isn't normally provided? (such that I can mutate it)