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<Wardrop> Is anyone else getting email notifications from bugs.ruby-lang.org? I'm watching a number of issues and never receive any email notifications when other comments on them.
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<hakunin> Is there a built-in version of Array#<< or Array#push that returns added object and not the array?
<hakunin> would be nice to say record = records.find{...} || records.append(Record.new) (for one off script), but there are many other ways to write this cleanly so whatever
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<hakunin> like record = records.find {...} || Record.new.tap{|r| records << r}
<Wardrop> hakunin: you can always do something like: (my_array << obj).last
<Wardrop> or: my_array << obj && obj
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<hakunin> hm, record = records.find {...} || (records << Record.new).last # is not bad
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<hakunin> not sure that vs tap
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<hakunin> on one hand tap feels more intended for modifying the object itself, not placing it into some external collection, but is calling .last on a long array slow i wonder?
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<hakunin> looks like it's counting length to get .last
<hakunin> if that's what RARRAY_LEN() does
<Wardrop> Well, you could revert back to my_array << obj && obj
<Wardrop> Not as semantic, but it gets the job done
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<hakunin> Wardrop: in that case i slightly prefer tap cause I'm always confused with precendence
<Wardrop> #tap probably less performant than #last
<Wardrop> #tap creates a proc and all that stuff
<hakunin> althouhg (records << record) && record is ok
<hakunin> Wardrop: you're probably right
<hakunin> Wardrop: oh wait, that won't work with inline constructor (records << Record.new) && ...?
<Wardrop> hakunin: I'd use #last. Array's are indexed, so it'd be as quick as anything.
<hakunin> alright
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<RickHull> i just accepted a job offer in SF. they are asking me if i want a macbook (non-retina) or a thinkpad
<RickHull> any suggestions?
<RickHull> never owned apple, interested
<r0bglees0n> having never used a thinkpad, nope.
<RickHull> i'll probably run linux in a VM
<RickHull> i'm guessing the thinkpad comes with windows?
<lianj> RickHull: thats the question. osx or linux
<RickHull> tempted to try the apple
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<lianj> daily linux vm on osx sucks for io speed
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<r0bglees0n> hakunin: maybe not slow, but prone to race conditions yes. what if another thread adds an element to the array _before_ you call .last, you might get a different object.
<RickHull> lianj: oh, hm
<lianj> RickHull: maybe it got better but you feel its not native
<hakunin> RickHull: you're moving from nyc?
<RickHull> hakunin: ha, good memory
<RickHull> been a while :)
<hakunin> RickHull: i remember very well
<RickHull> i got knocked out already, hurricane sandy
<RickHull> i'm in atlanta at the moment
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<hakunin> RickHull: ouch had no idea
<RickHull> yeah, i had moved to long beach, long island
<hakunin> RickHull: i'm reminded every time i see you responding on HN
<RickHull> barrier island south shore, hit hard
<RickHull> hakunin: heh, nice
<r0bglees0n> hurricane sandy was NYC right?
<hakunin> RickHull: coney island was hit hard too, but we're in apt building so nothing wrong except few days without power
<RickHull> yeah NYC took some flooding
<r0bglees0n> ah yeah. not too terrible compared to others though :)
<RickHull> my apt took 4 feet of water, destroyed most of my stuff
<r0bglees0n> that sucks. :<
<RickHull> long beach lost power, madatory evac for about a month
<RickHull> my company put me in a hotel in delaware for about a month
<hakunin> r0bglees0n: it was terrible for homes near water for sure
<RickHull> living with my parents now in Atlanta :/
<r0bglees0n> damn. the people I know in NYC acted as if it wasn't a big deal.
<RickHull> it was kind of a big deal for NYC for a few weeks, lower manhattan mostly i think
<RickHull> maybe a week i guess
<RickHull> major flooding at street and below street level
<hakunin> not many tech people live in south brooklyn where i'm located, but a lot of damage here, some businesses never reopened
<RickHull> yeah that's the sad part
<RickHull> same in long beach
<RickHull> that and people living in public housing without power for weeks on end
<RickHull> in the dead of winter
<r0bglees0n> NYC seems like a city that withstands almost anything though
<RickHull> lianj: i'm thinking i'll be happy with osx desktop. i'd like to have a decent bash terminal environment, maybe just ssh into a server, or into a local linux VM
<RickHull> yeah NYC will keep on ticking
<r0bglees0n> OSX is good for that and more.
<RickHull> a fair amount of businesses took huge losses with underground storage
<r0bglees0n> you can nerd out almost as much with OSX
<RickHull> some major art galleries and also run of the mill retail
<r0bglees0n> damn yeah, losing your art in flooding would really suck.
<r0bglees0n> i thought art galleries were run like fort knox
<RickHull> the publicly accessible, sure
<RickHull> but apparently some have underground vaults
<RickHull> perhaps not unlike fort knox ;)
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<r0bglees0n> hidden treasures
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<r0bglees0n> RickHull: what editor do you use?
<r0bglees0n> I guess being new to OSX you'll want to try textmate/sublime text editor
<RickHull> my dev environment is ssh to headless linux, emacs
<r0bglees0n> i did when i first came to OSX but i eventually fell back onto vim
<RickHull> i have played with sublime text, i like it
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<r0bglees0n> yeah, emacs has a native OSX client
<r0bglees0n> i cant speak for how good/bad it is
<RickHull> i just like the command line
<r0bglees0n> cool
<RickHull> i dont like the windows version of emacws
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<RickHull> keeping the dev environment on the server, it's always available and always consistent
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<r0bglees0n> the cocoa version of vim is pretty good, and it is packaged with a console editor as well.
<RickHull> i haven't developed on my desktop in a long time
<RickHull> heh "always" available -- except on an airplane etc
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<r0bglees0n> interesting approach.
<r0bglees0n> ill stick with git :)
<RickHull> it is nice knowing that wherever you are, whatever machine, give me putty or ssh
<RickHull> and i have my comfy env
<r0bglees0n> true, but i usually have my machine.
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<r0bglees0n> it's a portable macbook air 11"
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<RickHull> i've never owned an apple product. nothign against them, just never decided to pony up. i think now might be the time
<RickHull> hakunin: how is the startup going, same effort?
<r0bglees0n> yeah macs are cool
<RickHull> i like the unibody, magsafe, attention to detail
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<RickHull> i'm a little worried about keyboard layout but just short term
<r0bglees0n> yeah its different
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<r0bglees0n> becomes second nature after a while
<eam> RickHull: there's one killer reason why I use apple laptops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe
<RickHull> noted :)
<RickHull> what about docking options?
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<eam> you know, I'm not a huge fan of the thunderbolt. I don't like changing networks when I connect a display
<eam> and I really dislike osx, not much of an apple fan. But the magsafe does it
<RickHull> i'm ok if thunderbolt "optimizes" my network if i add a connection
<RickHull> but if you add a 2nd monitor, do you drop i/o?
<eam> mostly an issue of breaking existing long-lived connections for me
<lianj> eam: … just watching out for the f'ing cable
<ggreer> eam: I'm also glad that deep fryer power plug technology has been ported to computers :)
<r0bglees0n> lol
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<eam> I would be overjoyed to be able to get magsafe on other products :)
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<r0bglees0n> apple wont license it
<ggreer> I wish other companies made hardware similar to apple. I love my 11" air, but apple creates a lot of lock-in :/
<eam> r0bglees0n: yeah, I mean re: ggreer's point about fryer safety plugs potentially being prior art
<lianj> eam: did you actually destory that many machines because they had no magsafe?
<RickHull> take 2 things that need connecting. do it with a magnet. file patent
<eam> a few yeah
<RickHull> :barf:
<eam> lianj: more often I'll pick up a laptop and just yank it really yard by accident
<lianj> eam: another option is to get a machine with decent battery life :P
<eam> lianj: loving my Air :)
<eam> (kinda...)
<r0bglees0n> write your own OS, in Ruby!
<eam> and don't tell anyone here but apple still ships 1.8.7
<r0bglees0n> that's kind of because of macruby
<r0bglees0n> it was suppose to be the 1.9 for OSX
<lianj> loving my thinkpad with slice batteries. a day without power cord. let one slice batteries charge while another is in use. cord freedom
<r0bglees0n> macruby is 1.9.1 though and really behind, so i hope they eventually put cruby 1.9.3 on there.
<ggreer> the thinkpad x220/x230 is comically thick though
<RickHull> let's say i go mac, what software would/should I be tempted to buy?
<lianj> r0bglees0n: maybe when everyone switched to 2.0
<RickHull> and how hard is it to run linux on the metal?
<jhn> darn it is it hard to find a vim theme that looks consistent across terminal and gui and doesn't make my eyes bleed :-(
<ggreer> not worth the trouble
<r0bglees0n> lianj: yeah. doesn't bother me too much when i have rbenv/ruby-build ^_^
<lianj> r0bglees0n: ack
<eam> any OS can run a browser and terminals adequately. I just wish the OSX window management was less obnoxious
<lianj> RickHull: you can get along with buying near to nothing or spending a bunch
<RickHull> i'm more of a near nothing guy
<RickHull> in terms of spending
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<ggreer> eam: divvy?
<ggreer> or better touch tool
<lianj> for some time you even had to buy a quicktime license to view fullscreen with it oO
<RickHull> i'm guessing a debian distro runs pretty well on the thinkpad
<postmodern> RickHull, netbook :P
<RickHull> postmodern: i get a macbook or a thinkpad from the new job
<r0bglees0n> divvy is awful if you compare it to what Linux has to offer in terms of window management
<postmodern> RickHull, Fedora also runs well on thinkpads, just make sure to get the Intel HD Graphics
<ggreer> r0bglees0n: there are more. I just mentioned the popular one
<RickHull> interesting, i could fox with fedora
<ggreer> my main system is a maxxed-out 11" air. it's by far my favorite system
<r0bglees0n> ggreer: and none of them come close to Linux window management.
<ggreer> some of my friends have thinkpad x220s with debian or ubuntu on them. it's amusing to see them deal with wireless drivers or sound problems
<lianj> r0bglees0n: or filesystem/driver support
<jhn> RickHull, I don't think you'll need to spend more than $30 on software (unless you want to get fancy).
<eam> ggreer: I'm just cranky, and I don't really care enough to mess with it
<postmodern> ggreer, no wireless or sound issues here (x230 running Fedora 17)
<lianj> ggreer: running arch on x220 never had a driver problem
<RickHull> jhn: cool, i mean i might want to, and that's fine. but i'm trying to think of up front costs
<r0bglees0n> they can't really tile windows.
<RickHull> yeah i haven't messed with tiling wms
<RickHull> something i might look at now
<ggreer> you should basically ignore cost when buying a computer. your computer is necessary for your livelihood, and it's a small percentage of your income if you're doing development
<postmodern> im not cool enough for tiling, still running fluxbox :P
<eam> postmodern: fluxbox is my ideal =/
<jhn> ggreer: +1 to that
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<r0bglees0n> postmodern: if you use a tiled ruby WM your whole environment is scriptable pretty much.
<postmodern> ggreer, or buy a netbook and suffer the small keyboard
<ggreer> postmodern: heh. I have small hands so a netbook keyboard is perfect for me
<RickHull> for me, i can use a $10 computer to ssh into my dev environment / livelihood
<ggreer> RickHull: and if a $2000 computer made you 10% more productive, it'd totally be worth buying
<RickHull> sure
<postmodern> r0bglees0n, also your WM replaces tmux
<ggreer> since the extra value you create more than outweighs the extra $1990 you have to lay out
<r0bglees0n> postmodern: I live inside tmux almost.
<jhn> I try to buy the best for things I use all the time: computer, software, toilet, toilet paper, etc.
<r0bglees0n> apart from my browser.
<r0bglees0n> and macvim.
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<ggreer> I have xmonad on my netbook. it's nice
<ggreer> jhn: hecks yes
<ggreer> also nice: expensive nail clipper
<ggreer> something sturdy and sharp that doesn't rust
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<RickHull> ggreer: i'm still curious about the accounting. the apple keyboard is a glaring productivity issue. but it's all about assessing relative costs / curves
<ggreer> things you shouldn't spend lots of money on: car, daily habits like buying coffee
<lianj> ggreer: AND steam
<ggreer> also make sure you have a really nice bed and work chair/desk, since you use those things for about 2/3rds of your day
<ggreer> heh
<RickHull> ggreer: agree totally
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<hakunin> RickHull: startup is growing, don't remember how it was back then, but now full time on it
<ggreer> oh, and nice screen(s). you stare at those like 10 hours a day
<RickHull> i like a standup desk with a stool
<postmodern> ggreer, cars are the definition of spending money, constantly breaking down
<ggreer> yeah and cars depreciate pretty quickly
<postmodern> ggreer, buy a bike, doubles as transport and exercise
<r0bglees0n> i cant even drive :(
<ggreer> and you spend maybe 2 hours a day in them
<ggreer> assuming a ridiculous 1 hour commute each way
<r0bglees0n> id love to be able to take long distance car drives
<RickHull> i have a 30 month lease on a honda civic, moving to SF FML
<r0bglees0n> esp at 3/4AM in morning when i cant sleep
<ggreer> RickHull: heh. I have an apartment in SF with a garage parking spot. I don't own a car so I keep two motorcycles there :D
<ggreer> it's totally ridiculous
<RickHull> nice, i'm thinking about a KLR
<ggreer> ah. I went with a DRZ-400SM
<RickHull> but i can't ditch the civic
<ggreer> *DR-Z
<RickHull> without a big hit
<RickHull> $3000 pays for a lot of parking
<ggreer> the KLR is cool as hell, but pricier
<ggreer> I managed to find a salvaged DRZ for $2500
<hakunin> RickHull: i had to pay ~$7k to get rid of my accord lease
<RickHull> cool, i'd be tempted to supermoto it
<RickHull> the DRZ
<RickHull> the KLR, my dad and i want to do the continental divide
<ggreer> yeah it is a supermotard
<RickHull> canada to mexico
<RickHull> cool!
<ggreer> SM stands for supermotard
<ggreer> or something tard
<RickHull> ok right
<RickHull> i haven't ridden one, but i've ridden some dirt bikes
<ggreer> they're a lot of fun
<RickHull> when i get out there, you gotta let me try it out. you can drive the civic :)\
<ggreer> hah
<ggreer> it looks much worse now
<RickHull> hot dang
<RickHull> she looks nasty
<ggreer> since it was stolen
<RickHull> WAT
<RickHull> is that a SV 650?
<ggreer> yeah. I sold that
<ggreer> it was a fun bike but stupidly fast
<RickHull> oh darn
<ggreer> I replaced it with a used ninja 250
<RickHull> my first bike
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<RickHull> senior year of college, my roommate buys a ninja 250, learns how to ride it, goes out of town 3 months later, leaves me the keys
<ggreer> yeah. it's fun to wring the hell out of a slow bike than stroll around on a fast bike
<RickHull> totally
<ggreer> *more fun
<RickHull> scrape those pegs
<ggreer> heh
<RickHull> north georgia has some amazing roads
<RickHull> ribbons cut through the mountains, as if designed by Tony Hawk Himself
<RickHull> lots of camber
<ggreer> heh
<RickHull> really nice when they're two lanes
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<r0bglees0n> ggreer: cool blog post
<RickHull> the highway that turns into the dragon's tail in NC
<ggreer> r0bglees0n: thanks
<RickHull> has two lanes for uphill traffic going through a few passes
<RickHull> hakunin: do you mind sharing the name / website?
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<hakunin> RickHull: not at all, http://printio.ru
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<hakunin> RickHull: not US market
<hakunin> obviously
<RickHull> why not?
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<hakunin> RickHull: well, that's a long story, short version: for fun
<RickHull> you might have told me before
<RickHull> it's been a while :)
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<hakunin> RickHull: i.e. the biz guy started out here, but wanted to explore uncharted territories of Russia's startup scene, and be one of the first on it, which he succeeded at pretty hard
<RickHull> oh sure, do russia
<RickHull> but why not throw up a US version
<hakunin> definitely considering that
<ggreer> because zazzle already exists?
<hakunin> ggreer: which 1. validates the market, 2. doesn't much impact, 3. worse than us :)
<RickHull> yeah it's a question of how much cost to adapt to US market
<ggreer> cool
<hakunin> ggreer: we are the creators of http://github.com/kangax/fabric.js
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<hakunin> ok done bragging :)
<ggreer> hakunin: sorry if that came off as dismissive. I meant that you have an advantage over zazzle in russia because you know that market and can cater to it better
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<hakunin> ggreer: not at all, you're right
<ggreer> so if you're going to start a zazzle competitor, doing it in russia makes sense for you
<ggreer> curses. you have more watchers than me :)
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<ggreer> stargazers
<ggreer> whatever
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<hakunin> ggreer: front-end projects tend to generally have more watchers
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<ggreer> yeah. nobody cares about stuff written in C
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<hakunin> i'm struggling with getting more exposure myself, it's easier in front end
<hakunin> that account is my partner's
<hakunin> he's famous in front end
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<hakunin> mine is github.com/maxim
<ggreer> I meant the project, not the account
<RickHull> ggreer: jeebus the jb weld on the engine case :(
<ggreer> I don't pay attention to account followers
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<hakunin> ggreer: but it helps with project followers quite a lot
<hakunin> ggreer: if person is known, their projects get more love
<hakunin> :(
<hakunin> damn meritocracy
<ggreer> yeah. one of my friends has 150 stargazers on a repo that doesn't even have any working code
<ggreer> my ego. it has shrunk
<hakunin> hah, you got all the more significant scores
<ggreer> I have no clue how they weight them. I'm pretty sure it's not even weighting to all of them
<hakunin> who cares how many repos i publish
<ggreer> heh
<hakunin> and how many gists
<ggreer> I make my gists private by default
<hakunin> me too
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<RickHull> ggreer: brochure shot of my bike. http://www.supermagna.com/images/broch_1.jpg '87 under 6k miles. not quite as nice as the pic
<RickHull> i had another one with 30k miles ;)
<ggreer> oh yeah. one of my friends had a magna. I thought it was stupid until he started it up
<RickHull> dat V4
<ggreer> yeah
<RickHull> like a yamaha v-max
<ggreer> I assumed it was going to be an obnoxious v-twin chopper
<RickHull> or honda interceptor
<ggreer> but yeah. it was sweet
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<RickHull> that's the bike i scrape footpegs on
<ggreer> wow
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<RickHull> it's not quite the same lean angle as a sport bike, in fairness
<RickHull> i'd honestly like to get it on the track. i'm licensed for tube-frame race cars
<RickHull> not that it would ever win anything
<RickHull> but i'd be curious to see just how far off my laptimes would be, relative to say a CBR 600
<ggreer> wow
<RickHull> or ninja 250
<RickHull> probably a decent comparo there
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<RickHull> the ninja tops out at 100, so a small track
<RickHull> 110 downhill?
<ggreer> I've gotten it up to 110 on a level surface. that's redline in 6th
<ggreer> well, 110 indicated
<RickHull> wind too
<ggreer> it runs out of revs. the fuel limiter kicks in
<RickHull> ok yeah that sounds right
<RickHull> been 10 years
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<ggreer> also it helps that I'm 120lbs
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<RickHull> damn, ninja 250 all the way
<RickHull> great bike for the buck
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<RickHull> don't have to worry about it getting banged up
<RickHull> or rained on
<RickHull> i guess it's like a cbr 300 now?
<RickHull> would you consider the sv650 with dirt/intermediate tires, for continental divide?
<RickHull> probably fire roads mostly
<RickHull> we would look for singletrack or doubletrack, on KLRs
<RickHull> the pain the butt for KLRs (ha!) is getting them out there
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<RickHull> boy, talk about off topic. back in the day this would never have been tolerated, heh
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<RickHull> how much would it cost to put something like that together now?
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<RickHull> also, how is it at 70 mph on the highway?
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<yorickpeterse> Morning
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<postmodern> if your making a ruby >= 1.9.1 project, should you use 1.9 hash syntax in Rakefile or Gemfile?
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<postmodern> or is there a reason to allow 1.8 syntax for project files
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<yorickpeterse> Personal preference
<yorickpeterse> I don't really see the benefit of the 1.9 syntax so I don't really use it
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<injekt> and on the other end of the spectrum, I always use the 1.9 syntax
<injekt> postmodern: if you're forcing >= 1.9 in your project, I see no point to use 1.8 specific features anywhere
<yorickpeterse> I don't like it because it only works with Symbols meaning you still end up using the old syntax for the rest
<injekt> heh yeah that is annoying
<yorickpeterse> (I'm very pedantic about keeping that stuff the same)
<injekt> I guess I only use the 1.9 hash syntax for symbols, because i feel the same
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<yorickpeterse> +1 for those Gem generators that still think rubyforge is relevant
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: lol
<judofyr> rubyforge is the shit
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<ddfreyne> What is this... "Ruby forge" thing you speak of?
<charliesome> ddfreyne: you dont wanna know
<darix> yorickpeterse: some projects even still use rubyforge
<charliesome> ruby-lang.org talks about top ruby projects on rubyforge
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<yorickpeterse> ruby-lang.org is a terrible website content wise
<yorickpeterse> heh nice, 124 private repositories on GH
<charliesome> yorickpeterse: who?
<yorickpeterse> $WORK
<charliesome> also, :: for method calls. discuss.
<yorickpeterse> that's what I think of that
<charliesome> i don't even know why its in ruby
<ubersapiens> hello
<charliesome> is it to appease c++ programmers or perl programmers
<yorickpeterse> nfi
<yorickpeterse> why does Ruby have flip flops? Why is the parser so weird?
<yorickpeterse> why is it not webscale?
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<charliesome> yorickpeterse: the answer to flip flops is obvious
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<ubersapiens> hey guys...just registered my nickname...if i want to log in on another day...how do i get on with nick/password
<ddfreyne> ubersapiens: /msg NickServ id YOURPASSWORDWHICHISSECRET
<ubersapiens> thanks ddfreyne :)
<GarethAdams> ubersapiens: you can also /msg NickServ help
<oddmunds> i saw some talk/writeup about flipflops in ruby not too long ago
<yorickpeterse> rkh did one
<yorickpeterse> about "Almost Sinatra" I believe
<oddmunds> judofyr to the rescue https://gist.github.com/judofyr/3230984
<judofyr> oddmunds: \o/
<yorickpeterse> Ah yes, judofyr, that Twitter hacker from the north
<judofyr> I like the FizzBuzzBazz
<injekt> gah flip-flop
<ubersapiens> thanks Gareth
<ubersapiens> im starting a ruby course and i usually have a couple of questions...is it cool to post them here (or is there a noob channel)
<injekt> ubersapiens: that's fine
<ubersapiens> cool :)
<yorickpeterse> ubersapiens: well, there's #php for the true noobs :>
<yorickpeterse> but questions here are more than welcome
<injekt> yeah ask your ruby questions there
<bnagy> #ruby is noobier
<ddfreyne> I thought that was rails.
<ddfreyne> #rails, rather
<ubersapiens> hahaha just ruby...no php...at least not yet
<injekt> #rubyonrails
<injekt> and they should just merge ruby and this channel already
<bnagy> yeah
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<bnagy> but you need a registered nick, here, which 'takes too long' or something
<bnagy> which makes it a lot quiter in here :/
<bnagy> *quieter
<charliesome> injekt: this channel is more pro than #ruby
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<charliesome> my theory is that trolls/time wasters etc just go to #ruby
<judofyr> charliesome: wasn't there a #ruby-pro too?
<injekt> charliesome: yeah but there's no reason it should be separated, all it does is confuse noobs. There's already #ruby-pro and others
<charliesome> oh wow #ruby-pro actually exists
<injekt> yeah
<judofyr> lol @ #ruby-pro
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<injekt> apeiros started it a while ago iirc
<charliesome> lol
<injekt> and by a while i mean years
<charliesome> i started #mri come join me in discussion about the best ruby implementation
<injekt> I only left because there was more advanced topics being discussed in here than there at the time
<judofyr> what about #ruby-core?
<injekt> lol
<yorickpeterse> #ruby-gentlemens-club
<injekt> #rubyrubyrubyruby
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<ubersapiens> does anyone know a site where they explain binary code for Read Write Execute....terminal code for file permissions
<yorickpeterse> ubersapiens: you mean the things such as 777?
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<ubersapiens> yup
<ubersapiens> well spotted yorick :) thanks
<ubersapiens> any ideas where i can read up on it? it was explained in class in the worst way possible
<charliesome> injekt: would've been amazing if it was alert(\'lol\');
<injekt> charliesome: :D
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<ubersapiens> yorick that was a perfect explanation
<ubersapiens> thank you so much!
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<GarethAdams> ubersapiens: so we've covered freenode registration and UNIX permissions - any ruby questions? ;)
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<andrewvos> GarethAdams: wat is monkey perching?
<injekt> monkey.respond_to?(:perch)
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<andrewvos> monkey.perch?
<injekt> monkey.perch!
<andrewvos> monkey.perch!(:tree)
<GarethAdams> wat
<ubersapiens> Gareth...no ruby questions yet...im in the middle of class...ill be shooting questions as soon as i get a break :)
<ubersapiens> thanks for the great support
<andrewvos> duck tapping
<efy> Tap dem ducks.
<injekt> I believe that's illegal
<andrewvos> ermahgerd derck terping
<bnagy> derk.terp {|drk| drk.querk}
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<andrewvos> Derk.new(:derk).drk!
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<ubersapiens> ruby jedi masters...usually ruby courses have bad teachers because they are either very good programmers or very good teachers...but never both
<ubersapiens> could you tell me what book i could follow?
<ubersapiens> as complete as possible...or should i follow a tutorial
<GarethAdams> ubersapiens: impossible to say without knowing your level
<GarethAdams> i.e. with other languages
<ubersapiens> Gareth i have tried learning python in the past, but whenever i reached OOP and even arrays/hashes...i would get confused with the methodology
<ubersapiens> good example...why do you need to pass arguments in methods and things like that...but now im getting the hang of it...but its still slow...and i need to compliment with a book or something of that sort
<judofyr> wasn't there a free version of Learn to Program somewhere?
<judofyr> I can't find it anymore
<injekt> yeah it was taken offline :(
<judofyr> why? :(
<injekt> usually would be here http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
<injekt> no idea
<injekt> it's where I always point newbies
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<ubersapiens> if i spoke the terminology or if know how each object type works properly i will understand the methodology and be able to read code in stack/elsewhere and then put it to practice
<ubersapiens> but i need to understand what elements are needed when defining methods, or what elements are necessary when creating objects, or when to use if/loop/while/begin
<injekt> you're over complicating things, ubersapiens
<ubersapiens> i am?
<ubersapiens> sorry injekt...
<injekt> don't apologise :) but if you don't know when to use conditional statements or loops, you shouldn't be looking into OOP
<ubersapiens> its just concepts are explained in class and then homeworks/projects blow them out of proportion (its like the teach us how to build toy cars and then for homework they make us build Ferraris)
<yorickpeterse> injekt: monkey.perch?????????
<injekt> look who roles up late to the party
<injekt> rolls, too
<ubersapiens> i do understand the conditionals and loops but when it comes time to looking at a problem i have a hard time knowing which tool to pick out of the tool chest
<ubersapiens> thats why i asked about a book that clears up my mind...lets me understand every concept PERFECTLY...in laymans terms
<ubersapiens> and maybe then i can try and pick up another book when i got those concepts nailed down in my head
<truls> if one long method is too complicated, splitting it up into smaller methods or hiding away parts of the code in classes are your tools to cleaning up
<yorickpeterse> injekt: I was having lunch
<yorickpeterse> don't be hatin'
<truls> mmmm, lunch
<injekt> ubersapiens: perhaps try codecademy, I've never used it but some people like it http://www.codecademy.com/tracks/ruby
<ubersapiens> id just like to have a clear idea of how and when to use each object type....
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<ubersapiens> ive tried codecademy...its good but in the end it takes you by the hand too much....so when you put it into practice its not the same effect
<ubersapiens> tahts why i wanted a book
<ubersapiens> something between codecademy and the ruby course
<injekt> uh
<injekt> I gave you the link to a book
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<efy> This is somewhat unrelated, but I'm curious if you've take any data structures or algorithms courses?
<efy> taken*
<yorickpeterse> ubersapiens: http://rubymonk.com/ is also a good start
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<apeiros> charliesome, judofyr, injekt: yepp, I started #ruby-pro, and it's indeed a couple of years back. Never really made it the channel I wanted it to make :-/ (once again - time is a bitch)
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<apeiros> the original reason to found it was that I got pissed by trolls and wanted a "sanctuary"
<ubersapiens> injekt i jus tmaanaged to download the book
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<yorickpeterse> apeiros: so it's basically the apeiros appreciation club?
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<apeiros> appreciation? worship!
<apeiros> it's a public channel, permanently moderated with voice being granted upon somebody vouching for you
<yorickpeterse> pffff, no democracy
<yorickpeterse> HERECY
<apeiros> that is actually a form of democracy
<yorickpeterse> ssssh
<apeiros> (people vouching for each other, that is, not heresy)
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<judofyr> apieros: I just find the whole "this is a club of smart people" a bit weird. but then, I really like explaining stuff to noobs :)
<yorickpeterse> define "smart"
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<ubersapiens> how can i message a person directly here on the main chat
<yorickpeterse> ubersapiens: /msg NICK message
<injekt> /msg <user> <message>
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<injekt> do note that if it's a ruby specific question, it's always best asked in the main chat
<apeiros> can some sh/bash wizz how to do the equivalent of `File.delete(Dir.glob('*.foo').first) if Dir.glob('*.foo').first` ?
<ubersapiens> cool
<apeiros> +tell me
<apeiros> judofyr: it's less a "club of smart people" and more a "club of non-assholes, -pricks, -help-vampires"
<apeiros> but the channel is rather inactive
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<judofyr> yeah
<truls> apeiros: you can do a "for k in *.foo; rm $k; break; done" or something
<yorickpeterse> apeiros: rm *.foo
<gnufied> lol
<truls> i assume you just want to delete the first
<apeiros> yorickpeterse: that has non-zero exit status if no .foo file exists
<yorickpeterse> hm
<judofyr> apieros: || true
<judofyr> :D
<apeiros> truls: well, I expect there to be only one, but if there are multiple, it's fine to delete all of them
<apeiros> truls: so I guess just remove the `break; `?
<truls> yep
<truls> well
<truls> just do rm *.foo -f
<apeiros> nice
<truls> -f to avoid error if there are none
<apeiros> d'oh
<apeiros> even nicer then :D
<apeiros> thanks @ truls & yorickpeterse
<ubersapiens> INJEKT were you able to see those messages?
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<gnufied> find . -name "*.foo"|xargs rm
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<gnufied> but truls is beating me to it
<apeiros> `rm -f *.gem && gem build *.gemspec && gem install *.gem` :D
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<yorickpeterse> pff
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<mbj> whitequark: Good additions!
<bnagy> apeiros: hey on this fancy channel I just heard about, the link to instructions to get voice seems broken
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: hmmm
<yorickpeterse> Regarding constant paths, I do this:
<whitequark> mbj: yorickpeterse: btw I decided to collect complete information about the source, including e.g. literal begin/ends
<whitequark> the rationale is as follows:
<yorickpeterse> s(:constant_path, s(:constant, 'A'), s(:constant, 'B'))
<apeiros> bnagy: gah
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<yorickpeterse> which would translate to A::B
<apeiros> bnagy: ew, odd? I should still own ruby-pro.org, wtf?
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: I know Ripper is not the best, but you can take a look at the parser of ruby-lint
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<yorickpeterse> I'd say the AST for class/module/sclass blocks is quite ok
<whitequark> generally, Ruby parsers work either in "lint-mode" or "execution-mode", the former collecting as much info as possible, and the latter only collecting line numbers for backtraces
<apeiros> hrm, got to investigate that when I'm back home
<yorickpeterse> give me a sec and I'll pastie an example
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: a second
<whitequark> (lint/execute mode) this is also demonstrated by JRuby, which has two parsers.
<whitequark> I imagine that in a runtime, one could optimize for the common case and first parse the file while collecting just the line numbers, which should be somewhat faster and eat way less RAM
<whitequark> if, however, a syntax error happens (a rare event), it's OK to reparse it in the lint mode.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: two thoughts.
<yorickpeterse> same goes with begin/ends and what not. I actually went through quite a bit of trouble to get the order and everything right
<yorickpeterse> (Ripper does it backwards from what I remember)
<whitequark> first, the colon2 consists of the "base module" and "constant name". the former may be any value (a::B); the latter is always a bareword
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: I don't maky any assumption that paths always consist out of constants
<yorickpeterse> at least it shouldn't, let me verify
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: sure, but why does your example s(:constant_path, s(:constant, 'A'), s(:constant, 'B')) have a s(:constant) as the second part?
<whitequark> or was it A::B::C ?
<yorickpeterse> To keep things consistent
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<yorickpeterse> it makes iteration super easy
<yorickpeterse> Because I can always assume that it is at least a Node and not some primitive type
<whitequark> it doesn't, and I say that as an implementor :)
<yorickpeterse> Let me get an example of begin/rescue/end (a fun one)
<whitequark> there are generally three patterns of constant access I know of
<whitequark> 1) reading constants 2) declaring constants 3) declaring classes/modules
* yorickpeterse hopes that's readable
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: RP decomposes it into several parts. it's (ensure (rescue (begin ... code ...) (resbody ...) (resbody ...) (begin ... else code ...)) (begin ... ensure code ...))
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<whitequark> this actually makes somewhat more sense, because that's how a naïve interpreter would walk the tree, and how one would generate the bytecode, etc. it follows the control flow.
<yorickpeterse> I thought about that as well and I suppose it does make more sense
<yorickpeterse> I just never could be bothered changing it knowing I'll ditch my parser anyway
<whitequark> sure
<mbj> whitequark: Im busy today, I can hack on parser in the evening
<whitequark> mbj: sure. I think I'll finish the spec
<mbj> whitequark: So far I like the spec
<whitequark> mbj: very well!
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: my thoughts about constants.
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<whitequark> I want the declaration structure to follow access structure. Currently, this stands for lvars, ivars, etc: I can turn a (lvar :a) to assignment by (lvar :a).updated(:lvasgn) << (int 1)
<whitequark> so for a hypothetical (const) node, I want it to work in a similar way. (const ...).updated(:cdecl) << (int 1)
<judofyr> some for constpath?
<judofyr> same*
<whitequark> judofyr: yep
<whitequark> I want to reify the lhs of tCOLON3 (::A)
<whitequark> so that for ::A you would have: (const (cbase) :A)
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<whitequark> for just A it would be (const nil :A)
<whitequark> and for B::A it'd be (const (const nil :B) :A)
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<judofyr> hm
<whitequark> you can turn each into a declaration by changing `const to `cdecl` and appending a value
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: hmm
<yorickpeterse> heh, I just ignore the :: now
<yorickpeterse> tssk tssk, not very nice (as in, ::A)
<whitequark> also I think that class definition could well be (class (const nil :A) nil ... body)
<whitequark> it is then easy to unpack the (const) to the base and the constant name to be declared
<mbj> whitequark: I have to close this channel, to interesting and runins my ability to do my work ;)
<yorickpeterse> classes/modules aren't that hard
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: RP has them very inconsistent.
<yorickpeterse> I'm not surprised
<whitequark> well, RP's output = PT's output = MRI's parse tree so...
<whitequark> still annoying.
<yorickpeterse> hm, I wonder...
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => (http://eval.in/14558)
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<yorickpeterse> bah!
<judofyr> read?
<tbuehlmann> I'm trying to send a file over an TCP socket without loading the whole file in memory. this seems to work: https://gist.github.com/tbuehlmann/5300731 - is this reliable?
<judofyr> oh
<eval-in> whitequark => (http://eval.in/14559)
<whitequark> tbuehlmann: I believe so
<tbuehlmann> great, thanks
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: "Forbidden syscall socketcall"
<whitequark> yep
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: you should write your own bot that just pastes the file into eval.in
<whitequark> charliesome runs a ptrace sandbox
<yorickpeterse> hmpf
<charliesome> owned
<judofyr> charliesome runs a pretty tight ship
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<charliesome> well hey i don't want to open my RCE site up to RCE
<judofyr> I always cringe a bit when I realize that I can't run code without incrementing the ID. I feel like I'm wasting pastes :(
<whitequark> RCE site lol
<yorickpeterse> RCE?
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<whitequark> remote code execution
<whitequark> a class of vulnerabilities
<whitequark> s,one of these i's,,
<yorickpeterse> oh right
<yorickpeterse> I never heard of that acronym
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: it's a Rails feature
<injekt> :D
<yorickpeterse> You mean YAML?
<yorickpeterse> You Are Making Lulz
<yorickpeterse> I'll show myself out
<charliesome> judofyr: rails 3.2.11 should've been 4.0.0
<charliesome> semver and everything, right
<judofyr> charliesome: heh
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<judofyr> charliesome: I should finish my framework…
<charliesome> judofyr: do it
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<judofyr> charliesome: I can make a ping-pong app in it
<yorickpeterse> Can it execute YAML inside XML inside JSON?
<yorickpeterse> But wait!
<charliesome> there's more!
<yorickpeterse> Embedded in a swf file that's loaded using ajax
<yorickpeterse> every 5 seconds
<whitequark> judofyr: hmmm?
<whitequark> what's that
<charliesome> with an activex control
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<whitequark> this is a REALLY lame joke already.
<charliesome> whitequark: rubyists just wanna have fun
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<whitequark> you have a strange definition of `fun'.
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: I'm not into sadism
<charliesome> that's all we really want
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: btw, how do you handle op-assignments?
<yorickpeterse> In the AST?
<whitequark> yea
<yorickpeterse> sec
<whitequark> it's a PITA
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<yorickpeterse> also I accidently a word in that spec
<GarethAdams> a pain in the AST
<yorickpeterse> trivia: my parser resolves multiple variable assignments
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: lol, your masgn is completely broken
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: what you're seeing there is the resolved AST, not the raw one
<yorickpeterse> as in
<yorickpeterse> a, b = 10 basically gets turned into (a = 10), (b = nil) if that makes sense
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: a, b = *c
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: btw, how do you handle this op-assignment: a.b.c ||= d, and this: a[10, 20] ||= d
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<yorickpeterse> Hm, it appears it doesn't test a, b = *c
<yorickpeterse> Though I do recall writing tests for it at some point in time
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<yorickpeterse> not that I can handle that on parser level anyway
<whitequark> well you shouldn't be handling that on parser level anyway
<yorickpeterse> Not in an ideal world
<whitequark> that's not what the parser is supposed to do
<yorickpeterse> but in world of "God I fucking hate Ripper but it's the easiest to do it here" that was a good idea
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<whitequark> heh ok
<yorickpeterse> I should probably put a big sticker "This was a good idea some time ago" on parts of the parser
<whitequark> bitrot
<yorickpeterse> well no, it's still being used and so far does its job
<yorickpeterse> it's just not the most elegant way to solve the problem
<whitequark> has anyone here ever used `retry`? `redo`? `next` with an argument?
<whitequark> why the fuck next even accepts an argument?!
<whitequark> what would it do
<charliesome> whitequark: returns a value from yield
<whitequark> charliesome: isn't that `break`
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<charliesome> whitequark: no, break jumps to after the block
<yorickpeterse> I think I almost used `retry` once
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* charliesome is guilty of abusing all the keywords
<charliesome> whitequark: i'll demonstrate 4 u
<truls> is arguments for next to name which block to continue?
<whitequark> >> def a; p yield; p "exit"; end; a { next 1 }
<eval-in> whitequark => 1 ... (http://eval.in/14562)
<yorickpeterse> charliesome: keyword connoisseur
<whitequark> >> def a; p yield; p "exit"; end; a { break 1 }
<eval-in> whitequark => 1 (http://eval.in/14563)
<charliesome> whitequark: http://eval.in/14564
<whitequark> charliesome: does break exit the function calling the yield instead?
<whitequark> oh.
<whitequark> OH.
<charliesome> whitequark: break jumps to after the }
<charliesome> next jumps to before the }
<judofyr> next is awesome
<charliesome> redo jumps to after the {
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<charliesome> judofyr: everything about the ruby is awesome
<whitequark> charliesome: flip-flops *badumtss*
<charliesome> whitequark: they can be awesome
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<charliesome> whitequark: cat /var/log/kernel.log | ruby -ne 'puts $_ if /Feb 19/../Feb 25/'
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<whitequark> about the ruby command, maybe
<judofyr> >> module Enumerable;def first_true; each { |o| return o || next }; nil end; end; [nil, false, 0, 1].first_true
<eval-in> judofyr => 0 (http://eval.in/14566)
<whitequark> in the ruby language this is shitty
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<chendo> charliesome, wat
<judofyr> I like the `return foo || next` pattern
<charliesome> chendo: yo
<charliesome> judofyr: even though 'or' is probably more correct there
<chendo> how does /Feb 19/../Feb 25/ work?!
<charliesome> wait no
<charliesome> derp
<charliesome> chendo: flip flops
<chendo> you've told me this before i think
<whitequark> chendo: they introduce a hidden local variable
<chendo> i wear them on my feet
<whitequark> er, global
<whitequark> actually I dunno
<whitequark> a variable :)
<charliesome> chendo: they're false until the left hand side is true, then they're true until the right hand side is true, then they're false
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<charliesome> whitequark: it's a dvar in recent rubies i think
<charliesome> whitequark: in 1.0 they were global
<chendo> so
<chendo> how does it differentiate between a flip flop and a range?
<chendo> like what happens in a range
<charliesome> chendo: a range is a flip flop when it's in a conditional
<yorickpeterse> real programmers walk around on socks/bare foot
<chendo> oooooooorly
<whitequark> chendo: a flip-flop is a range which syntactically happens to be a condition of an `if`
<whitequark> or
* yorickpeterse is apparently the only "real" programmer here in the office
<whitequark> a part of a logical expression iirc
<charliesome> whitequark: nobody knows lol
<chendo> charliesome walks around in bare feet around the office
<whitequark> charliesome: nono, that wasn't an "either or"
<chendo> booked indoor skydiving for tomorrow
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<chendo> awwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah
<chendo> also charliesome
<charliesome> chendo: nice
<chendo> you should build a reactive framework for ruby
<chendo> tyia
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<charliesome> chendo: too many things to do, not enough time
<chendo> call it better-rx
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<chendo> lol
<yorickpeterse> reactorly
<chendo> don't we all
<chendo> rrrrrrreactor
<chendo> fukushima
<charliesome> reactorlyifyr
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<charliesome> LOL
<chendo> lol
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<chendo> now i feel
<chendo> bad*
<yorickpeterse> Reaktor, including a German accent
<charliesome> holy shit it's been 2 whole years since fukushima
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<chendo> yeah
<chendo> apparently there was a 6.0 earthquake like 300km off japan like half an hour after we took off
<yorickpeterse> quakes happen quite often in that area
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<chendo> yeah
<charliesome> next time someone accuses parts of mri of being pretty shaky, you know why
<whitequark> hehehe
<chendo> hahaha
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<judofyr> charliesome: did you ever implement the per-class method cache?
<charliesome> judofyr: i have it half implemented in a local branch
<charliesome> it's pretty unstable though
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: what about binary/indexing/logical operator-assignments?
<yorickpeterse> eh, you mean `foo[1] = 10`?
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<yorickpeterse> charliesome: yuk yuk yuk
<whitequark> foo[1] ||= 10
<whitequark> or foo[1,2] ||= 10
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<yorickpeterse> oh, same story but basically the left hand node is a array reference node
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<yorickpeterse> note: I kinda goof'd arefs
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* yorickpeterse longs for the day he can ditch RubyLint::Parser
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: hopefully soon.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: also you know what I've planned? conservative source rewriting
<yorickpeterse> well, implementing it in ruby-lint is going to take at least a month or so
<yorickpeterse> oh?
<judofyr> whitequark: source rewriting?
<whitequark> see, you cannot reproduce the code as-is from the AST. it's really freaking hard and you still won't get all the stuff correctly
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<judofyr> ah, right, but you store SourceRanges everywhere
<whitequark> judofyr: still not enough
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: but you sometimes don't need to change *all* the code. you wanna add a parentheses here or there, or rename a constant
<whitequark> so you can tell the, um, SourceManagerDispatcherFactory^W: pls take this SourceRange and substitute the content for something else, kthx
<yorickpeterse> hmmm
<whitequark> and it'll change just that, without screwing up everything else in your code
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<whitequark> basically, automated refactoring support.
<yorickpeterse> I can see this being quite useful for converting Ruby to X
<whitequark> meh no
<yorickpeterse> Or the other way around
<whitequark> for converting ruby to x you get the AST and pretty-print X.
<whitequark> also can do with `parser` but it's less exciting.
<whitequark> ... I'm not sure if source rewriting is useful to anyone.
<judofyr> it sounds cool
<whitequark> if I'd ever want to excise some syntax from Foundry I'll make an automated converter with it
<judofyr> we could finally add parentheses in seattle.rb's code
<whitequark> judofyr: LOL yes
<judofyr> but yeah, something like gofix is probably a good ideas
<judofyr> idea*
<yorickpeterse> and get rid of the `if foo then`
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<charliesome> get rid of single quotes
<whitequark> get rid of double quotes in strings without interpolation
<charliesome> noo
<charliesome> also get rid of :: for method calls
* whitequark slaps charliesome around a bit with a large trout
<whitequark> charliesome: YES
<judofyr> charliesome: YAH
<judofyr> I'm so inconsistent in my use of single/double quotes
<charliesome> judofyr: i just use double all the time
<whitequark> also I need to add location info for :: on method calls probably
<charliesome> i dunno what it is about the CGI module, but for some reason everyone feels the need to use :: when calling methods on it
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<judofyr> heh
<judofyr> copy-paste
<yorickpeterse> copy-pasta
<yorickpeterse> judofyr: get rid right damn it
<charliesome> it's so pervasive though
<charliesome> it's incredible
<yorickpeterse> * it
<yorickpeterse> damn lag
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<charliesome> i swear CGI::escapeHTML is more common than CGI.escapeHTML
<judofyr> camelcase FTW
<yorickpeterse> ugh, the CGI module
<charliesome> it's not even useful for writing cgi apps
<yorickpeterse> >> require 'uri'; URI.regexp
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => / ... (http://eval.in/14567)
<yorickpeterse> dat regex
<charliesome> fuck
<whitequark> kewl, go's parser is also called parser: http://golang.org/pkg/go/parser/
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<charliesome> one of the nice things about go is that it treats the language itself as a first class citizen, not as an afterthought
<whitequark> charliesome: that applies to everything designed after '95 onwards
<whitequark> also Lisp
<yorickpeterse> (lisp)
<charliesome> )))))
<whitequark> (I wonder if there is something to what "alsp Lisp" does NOT apply)
<whitequark> *also
<judofyr> I think Go's stdlib is generally quite nice
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<charliesome> you can't say anything about any language feature without someone going "LISP DID IT"
<whitequark> I think it was around '95 when computers commonly became powerful enough to handle sane data structures in compilers?
<charliesome> also "JAVA DID IT ....heres our bytecode hackery"
<whitequark> also the advent of SSA/CPS and generally nicer compilation techniques
<whitequark> before that, it all was about "let's write a kilobyte of perl there and save four bytes per identifier"
<whitequark> "perl" not as in "Perl language" but as "unreadable shit" of course
<charliesome> whitequark: have you seen lua's source
<judofyr> I should continue working on Uno
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<whitequark> charliesome: a long time ago
<whitequark> also I said "designed"
<whitequark> eg ruby was not designed, by any measure
<charliesome> there's an element of design in ruby
<charliesome> in fact i think ruby was designed quite well, compared to all the other crap languages out there
<yorickpeterse> Ruby well designed? *cough* parse.y
<whitequark> charliesome: I attribute it to the fact that very clever people did work on Ruby, the language.
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<whitequark> but there was clearly not enough organization to call it a "design process".
<whitequark> so it's kinda nice, most of the time, but no, not "designed".
<charliesome> fair enough
<charliesome> anyway, night
<whitequark> it's night already in australia?!
<[1]Apollo> beginner question, I'm read text from a file in to a string and I want to find all instances of a phrase using regex. However, using slice only finds the first instance, what's the best way to get every instance?
<[1]Apollo> reading*
<whitequark> huh. right. seven hours between us
<whitequark> [1]Apollo: #scan
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<[1]Apollo> Thanking you.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: btw, what about the (hash (pair) (pair) (kwsplat) (pair) (pair)) ?
<whitequark> I think that the (hash (int 1) (int 2) (int 3) (int 4)) as {1=>2,3=>4} has reached the end of its useful life
<whitequark> due to kwsplat
<whitequark> also I do not envy zenspider, for he will experience a great pain trying to implement that in RP
<whitequark> >> { 1=>2, **{ 3=>4, 5=>6 }, 7=>8}
<eval-in> whitequark => /tmp/execpad-f42b2f394832/source-f42b2f394832:2:in `core#hash_merge_kwd': wrong argument type Fixnum (expected Symbol) (TypeError) ... (http://eval.in/14568)
<whitequark> what
<whitequark> oh so it can only merge symbolic hashes. perfect
<whitequark> >> { a: 1, **{ c: 2, :d => 3 }, :e => 6 }
<eval-in> whitequark => {:a=>1, :c=>2, :d=>3, :e=>6} (http://eval.in/14569)
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: wat
<yorickpeterse> also, that's Ruby 2.0 only right?
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: yes
<whitequark> what wat?
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<GarethAdams> in the but
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<whitequark> >> a = 1; BEGIN { a = 2 }; a
<eval-in> whitequark => /tmp/execpad-74bf867dc082/source-74bf867dc082:2: BEGIN is permitted only at toplevel ... (http://eval.in/14571)
<whitequark> 19>> a = 1; BEGIN { a = 2 }; a
<eval-in> whitequark => /tmp/execpad-42734e5e88cb/source-42734e5e88cb:2: syntax error, unexpected keyword_BEGIN, expecting keyword_end ... (http://eval.in/14572)
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<whitequark> http://eval.in/14574 !
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<ubersapiens> hey jedi masters
<ubersapiens> do you guys do Behavior Driven Development with your code (RSpec?)?
<ubersapiens> and if you do, is it useful?
<whitequark> BDD as in, Cucumber?
<whitequark> waste of time IMO.
<ubersapiens> doesnt it save a bunch of time as per debugging...even if it consumes a bit more time?
<whitequark> ubersapiens: let me be more specific. Describing your behavior in a "business-friendly DSL", how they call it (http://cukes.info/ etc) is a waste of time. TDD itself is a valid metodhology.
<ubersapiens> is TDD the same or the basis of BDD
<whitequark> the basis
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<injekt> whitequark: I think he's talking about rspec, not cukes
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<yorickpeterse> ugh, Rails tests are slow
<yorickpeterse> Given We Use Database Cleaner
<yorickpeterse> Shit Is Going To Be Slow
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<injekt> my rails tests are pretty fast
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<injekt> herp to the derp
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<GarethAdams> *Then Shit Is Going To Be Slow
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<yorickpeterse> Not sure what's worse, me making the joke or you correcting me
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<ubersapiens_> lkasdf
<ubersapiens_> do i always need to pass arguments inside functions?
<ubersapiens_> for example function () <-- what goes in here
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<GarethAdams> ubersapiens_: they're called methods in ruby, not functions
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<GarethAdams> ubersapiens_: and it totally depends on the method. No, now all methods have arguments
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<judofyr> ubersapiens_: and that's a *method call*. when you say "inside function" it often means inside the method/function definition
<GarethAdams> s/now/not/
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<GarethAdams> >> "ubersapiens".reverse
<eval-in> GarethAdams => "sneipasrebu" (http://eval.in/14589)
<GarethAdams> >> "ubersapiens".reverse()
<eval-in> GarethAdams => "sneipasrebu" (http://eval.in/14590)
<judofyr> >> "ubersapiens".replace("u", "a")
<eval-in> judofyr => /tmp/execpad-b9f5b2bda2e5/source-b9f5b2bda2e5:2:in `replace': wrong number of arguments (2 for 1) (ArgumentError) ... (http://eval.in/14591)
<toranaga111___> sdfsdffsd
<judofyr> err
<judofyr> durr
<judofyr> >> "ubersapiens".gsub("u", "a")
<eval-in> judofyr => "abersapiens" (http://eval.in/14593)
<yorickpeterse> >> 1 << 2 | 3 + 5 * 3
<judofyr> ubersapiens_: all of our examples above are method calls
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => 22 (http://eval.in/14594)
<yorickpeterse> ha
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<yorickpeterse> hm, I wonder...
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<yorickpeterse> >> "☃"
<eval-in> yorickpeterse => "☃" (http://eval.in/14595)
<yorickpeterse> yay
<judofyr> >> end; "don't print me"; begin
<eval-in> judofyr => nil (http://eval.in/14596)
<toranaga111___> hello people
<judofyr> hey toranaga111___
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<toranaga111___> hello again
<judofyr> toranaga111___: hello. how's it going?
<toranaga111___> trying to figure out how this works
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<judofyr> toranaga111___: IRC? or Ruby?
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<ubersapiens_> ive been looking for method calls on the net but i get too much material
<ubersapiens_> anywhere you guys know where its well explained
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<GarethAdams> ubersapiens_: um, well you just call a method and the code gets run. What more do you need?
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<ubersapiens_> thanks guys
<ubersapiens_> the examples were extremely useful
<ubersapiens_> by the way can i change my nickname so it doesnt have the underscore at the end?
<breakingthings> /nick ubersapiens
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<ubersapiens> thanks :)
<judofyr> \o/
* breakingthings fixes things
<whitequark> breakingthings: oxymoron
<ubersapiens> test
<breakingthings> whitequark: what did you just call me?!
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<judofyr> oxyidiot
<injekt> god damn ssl
<injekt> SSLOL
<whitequark> injekt: try more swearing
<injekt> does `ri YAML` look like this for anyone else? http://cl.ly/image/1P1I2L0S1r2q
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<yorickpeterse> Secure Suckass Layer
<yorickpeterse> see what I did there?
<injekt> secure stfu layer
<yorickpeterse> injekt: http://showterm.io/59b5e99ebffe41ac702d5 come at me bro
<injekt> hey bro
<injekt> getting all fancy with your showterm
<injekt> yorickpeterse: what ruby version?
<yorickpeterse> 1.9.3
<yorickpeterse> ruby 1.9.3p385 (2013-02-06 revision 39114) [x86_64-linux]
<whitequark> withruyb? bechosen?
<injekt> yeah works on 1.9.3 too for me
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: wat
<injekt> zzak: ping
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<zzak> pong
<injekt> zzak: you seeing my above screen shot on 2.0.0?
<zzak> yeah
<zzak> try ri Psych
<injekt> yeah
<injekt> I know that works
<zzak> i tried trunk
<injekt> but ri YAML should at least display what it did on 1.9.3 or something better than.. nothing right?
<mistym> What's the best way to slice a string into an array of strings of a given size?
<zzak> well
<injekt> mistym: side of each string or size of array?
<whitequark> mistym: string.scan(/.{20}/)
<injekt> zzak: yeah I figured, should there be something there, though?
<mistym> injekt: Size of each string. E.g. "foobar".imaginary_slice(2) #=> ['fo','ob','ar']
<injekt> mistym: ah, what whitequark wrote, then
<zzak> injekt: theres a few yaml extensions in stdlib
<whitequark> >> "foobarbazbarbra".scan(/.{1,3}/)
<eval-in> whitequark => ["foo", "bar", "baz", "bar", "bra"] (http://eval.in/14617)
<mistym> Thanks!
<whitequark> >> "foobarbazbarbra".scan(/.{1,2}/)
<eval-in> whitequark => ["fo", "ob", "ar", "ba", "zb", "ar", "br", "a"] (http://eval.in/14618)
<mistym> I missed the eval bot appearing.
<mistym> >> `uname -a`
<eval-in> mistym => (http://eval.in/14619)
<zzak> injekt: for sure, it shouldnt be empty :)
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<dougsko> anyone ever use the classifier gem? i can't seem to get the Classifier::LSI.remove_items to actually remove anything...
<wmoxam> where can I find a list of the ENV variables that can be used to tune Ruby 2.0 GC?
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<zzak> injekt: i thought i documented ::yamler again
<zzak> but maybe im going crazy
<injekt> zzak: you did
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<zzak> its apart of psych now
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<injekt> zzak: drbrain wrote that YAML doc but aaron removed it for 43360
<injekt> zzak: will documenting above the YAML const fix ri?
<zzak> confusing that Psych::EngineManager is under YAML on stdlib
<zzak> and nowhere to be found under Psych
<zzak> yeah
<zzak> lib/yaml.rb
<injekt> yeah
<zzak> YAML = Psych
<injekt> if I drop the old docs back in above, is that enough?
<zzak> probably not
<zzak> because trunk doesnt ship with syck
<injekt> eh sure with updates to psych
<injekt> in fact
<injekt> it really just needs to say use ri Psych instead
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<zzak> psych is an implementation detail
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<zzak> i think people looking for YAML just want to know how to use yaml with ruby
<injekt> heh yeah
<zzak> sending them off to the parser is going to make things more confusing
<zzak> it really deserves an introductory overview, and then explain how psych is involved and where to learn more specific details
<injekt> alright, I can open a ticket for discussion and work on that
<zzak> injekt: thanks!
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: I see you tweeted my quote
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: yea
<mistym> String#[] is weird in 1.8.2.
<injekt> mistym: lol, this whole process is going to be so painful
<mistym> injekt: That's not related to the string splitting at least :D I'm using modern Ruby for that
<mistym> But yeah, "foobar"[0] #=> 102
<injekt> oh that's not weird
<mistym> It is compared to modern Ruby, anyway.
<injekt> it changed in 1.9.2
<injekt> you'll want to use "foobar"[0, 1]
<mistym> Huh. Why, so it did. I actually thought 1.8.7 had the 1.9ish behaviour.
<injekt> it'll work for both modern and 1.8.2
<injekt> nope
<manveru> basically "a"[0] == ?a across versions
<injekt> ^
<injekt> you could use .chr too, but I think [0, 1] is nicer
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<mistym> Yeah, I agree.
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<injekt> mistym: how does it feel being punished by apples inability to update old stuff?
<mistym> injekt: :(
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<mistym> I definitely wish I could use modern Ruby hashes, etc.
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<mistym> 1.8.7 on Mtn Lion is bad enough, but going back to 1.8.2 for Tiger is another thing altogether
<whitequark> 1.8.2, what
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<injekt> mistym: yeah
<mistym> ...though I'm pleasantly surprised that it's not *that* different, major bugs in Pathname notwithstanding
<injekt> whitequark: default installed ruby on osx tiger
<GarethAdams> it blew my mind when I accidentally mixed old and new style hash syntax *in the same Hash literal* and it just worked
<injekt> GarethAdams: yeah my co-worker did it accidentally and I called him out on it.. I was wrong :/
<mistym> GarethAdams: Huh, I didn't know that either
<mistym> Pathname's handling of symlinks to directories is hilariously bad in 1.8.2
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<GarethAdams> >> { hey: "what's", :going => "on" }[:going]
<eval-in> GarethAdams => "on" (http://eval.in/14621)
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<whitequark> meh
<whitequark> these days I TDD, or at least aim for 100% test coverage for all of my projects... except rails ones
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<whitequark> it's just such an incredible pain in the ass that I'd rather spend time fixing bugs and testing the code manually
<whitequark> (tssss don't tell my boss)
* lianj hates slow capybara rails suites
* injekt hates capybara rails suites
* whitequark hates slow rails suites, i.e. all rails suites.
<injekt> my rails test suite isnt slow
<whitequark> injekt: minitest and no fucked up AR integration tests?
<injekt> whitequark: yup :D
<whitequark> please come and do my work, I'll pay you
<whitequark> *come here
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<injekt> heh
<whitequark> or rather convince someone to pay you, doesnt matter
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<injekt> :D
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<whitequark> the end result is the same :D
<whitequark> also you'll have to refactor 10KLOC of rspec integration tests
<whitequark> or maybe 20KLOC
<injekt> people hit the db too much in their tests (ie when they dont need to), it's a result of stuff like factories and how they're taught
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<whitequark> which run for around 10 minutes
<injekt> heh
<whitequark> around 500 tests I think
<whitequark> it was 700 but I refactored them
<whitequark> i.e. deleted tests which didn't do anything useful AT ALL
* whitequark cries
<injekt> yeah mine sits around 400 right now
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<whitequark> also I seriously want OMeta to be integrated in some industry-standard language
<whitequark> and when I say integrated I mean *integrated*, not kinda-bolted-on
<whitequark> but I'm probably asking for too much.
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<lianj> injekt: some people hit capybara too much in their test (ie when they dont need to)
<injekt> lianj: some people hit capybara in their test (when they dont need to)
<injekt> :D
<injekt> I hate, and will never use capybara
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<whitequark> damn zoophiles
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<lianj> some month ago i started to think, huh i should have a smoke when starting the suite because it took so long. already then i knew testing for this project just died
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<lianj> i also freak out when foo.nil? or foo.present? is all over the place
<whitequark> lianj: that makes sense when being applied to user input
<whitequark> but nowhere else
<whitequark> or do you mean "foo.nil? or foo.present?" :D
<whitequark> also everyone who uses "or" and "and" in their code must be shot.
<lianj> hah no
<injekt> whitequark: no wae!
<injekt> I <3 'or' and 'and'
* whitequark gives inkjet foo or bar and baz
<injekt> :D
<whitequark> please proceed to shoot yourself.
<whitequark> in the foot, I guess
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<zzak> you could never read rdoc source then
<zzak> or anything by drbrain for that matter
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<whitequark> zzak: I can confirm that
<whitequark> also, seattlerb :/
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<yorickpeterse> all aboard the seattlerb hate train!
<yorickpeterse> CHOO CHOO
<yorickpeterse> also fuck yeah, holidays
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<injekt> how I'll write all my prints now: :puts.to_proc.call(Kernel, "helloo")
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: not sure if I agree on (self)
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<yorickpeterse> since it's a keyword
<yorickpeterse> hm, then again it seems the rest follows that as wlel
<yorickpeterse> * well
<yorickpeterse> (cvdecl) eww
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<whitequark> yorickpeterse: it's consistent. (ivasgn) (cvasgn) (cdecl) -> (cvdecl)
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<yorickpeterse> it's also an ugly name
<yorickpeterse> I'm not a huge fan of abbrevations in this case
<whitequark> I'm opposed to unnecessarily wordly ASTs
<whitequark> it
<whitequark> *it makes them hard to read
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<whitequark> remember that you can always just take the Builders::Sexp and reimplement it in your parser to get any AST you want without speed penalty.
<yorickpeterse> hmm
<whitequark> extensivity, bitch
<Rhy0lite> I incorrectly opened a new issue against Backport93 instead of ruby-trunk. Can someone change it or will it eventually be found?
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<zzak> nothing but love here
<zzak> Rhy0lite: link?
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<zzak> i can move it
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<Rhy0lite> It eventually will be moved back to Backport93
<Rhy0lite> But I missed the request that issues should start on ruby-trunk
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<Rhy0lite> I just don't want to conform to the community's process
<Rhy0lite> Sorry
<zzak> huh
<Rhy0lite> I was writing it two ways
<Rhy0lite> I mean I want to conform to the community's process
<whitequark> AIX?
<Rhy0lite> yes
<whitequark> someone still uses that?
<Rhy0lite> yes
<zzak> Rhy0lite: so you want this on trunk?
<zzak> i havent read the entire discussion
<Rhy0lite> zzak: It started as Issue 8170
<Rhy0lite> one changeset was backported
<Rhy0lite> and then closed
<Rhy0lite> but that was not sufficient
<Rhy0lite> So I wanted to open another issue for the other revision that needs to be backported
<Rhy0lite> but I was in Backport93 project when I selected New Issue
<zzak> backported to 93?
<Rhy0lite> yes, backported to 93
<zzak> then you did the right thing
<Rhy0lite> Okay
<zzak> trunk is for issues that exist in trunk, and feature requests
<Rhy0lite> on the front page it says: "Don't report issues here. Report it to tuby-trunk."
<zzak> backport93 and backport20 is for backporting bug fixes to the respective branches
<zzak> yeah
<zzak> new issues
<Rhy0lite> okay
<zzak> but you're discussing an existing issue
<Rhy0lite> I just wanted to make sure that it was reported in the correct place
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<zzak> yup
<zzak> you're good, i think
<Rhy0lite> if someone else should move it to the Backport93 project instead of my selecting that project myself
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<Rhy0lite> okay, thanks
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: what's the motivation for different token names for cvars/ivars based on scope?
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<yorickpeterse> * the scope
<zzak> unfortunately this process is sort of confusing
<zzak> but BackportX is where you submit a request to merge a newer revision where branch is X
<zzak> and eventually a patch level release will include the revision
<Rhy0lite> Okay
<Rhy0lite> I mentioned the issue in the original 8170 bug, but I'm not certain it will be noticed after closed
<Rhy0lite> so I chose to open a new issue for the other changeset
<zzak> yeah
<Rhy0lite> I assume that usa eventually will see it
<Rhy0lite> zzak: actually, the other thing is
<zzak> i can reopen 8170
<zzak> and assign it to usa
<zzak> then mark 8212 as duplicate
<Rhy0lite> well, I already opened 8212
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<Rhy0lite> okay
<Rhy0lite> either way
<zzak> yeah
<zzak> thats probably the way to go
<Rhy0lite> I'll defer to you about whichever is best
<zzak> sometimes closed tickets are ignored (mostly)
<Rhy0lite> right
<zzak> but if its reopened
<Rhy0lite> that's what I assumed
<Rhy0lite> when there was no response
<zzak> yeah
<Rhy0lite> and I cannot reopen it
<Rhy0lite> and that is why I chose to open a new ticket
<Rhy0lite> but now that I have your attention :-)
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<Rhy0lite> I actually want to add some buildbots for MRI
<Rhy0lite> for PowerLinux and Power AIX
<Rhy0lite> how do I contact someone associated with rubyci.org?
<Rhy0lite> or wherever such buildbots should be attached?
<zzak> Rhy0lite: you're edelsohn?
<Rhy0lite> yes
<zzak> ok i've reopened 8170
<zzak> thanks for the report
<Rhy0lite> okay, thanks
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: other than that the AST looks fairly sane, though the if statement syntax looks confusing
<Rhy0lite> zzak: any suggestions about rubyci?
<Rhy0lite> whitequark: I am helping IBM place an open access POWER AIX system for use by Open Source projects
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<zzak> Rhy0lite: kanemoto is aix platform maintainer
<Rhy0lite> zzak: yes, I emailed him a week ago, but did not receive a response
<zzak> then you can try to email ruby-core ML? or open a ticket on ruby-trunk
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<Rhy0lite> okay, I may have been told the wrong email address
<Rhy0lite> I will try again
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<whitequark> hmm, my parser testsuite includes a little language and a parser for it
<whitequark> which has its own testsuite
<whitequark> yo dawg
<whitequark> also this is how I test: https://github.com/whitequark/parser/blob/master/test/test_parser.rb#L31 /cc yorickpeterse
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<whitequark> I think this is as close to Knuth's literate programming as it makes sense to be
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<Rhy0lite> whitequark: why are you surprised about AIX?
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<zzak> because hes russian
<zzak> they are surprised by everything
<whitequark> Rhy0lite: dunno, it just seems really ancient and obscure to me
<whitequark> in the same ballpark as XENIX
<zzak> whitequark: more ancient and obscure then yacc?
<whitequark> zzak: tools live forever, distributions need support
<Rhy0lite> whitequark: I'm trying to help make it less obscure
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<Rhy0lite> because it is widely used in many large companies
<Rhy0lite> but has not done well with maintaining its ecosystem
<whitequark> Rhy0lite: I see
<zzak> whitequark: <3
<Rhy0lite> and general accessibility
<Rhy0lite> for developers
<zzak> Rhy0lite: its a noble cause
<whitequark> zzak: huh?
<Rhy0lite> zzak: thanks
<Rhy0lite> any suggestions are appreciated
<zzak> whitequark: your quotey
<whitequark> what's with the sudden hearting? :D
<Rhy0lite> mine or IBM's?
* whitequark blushes
<zzak> and my tasteless expression about russians earlier
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<Rhy0lite> I created and maintain the PowerPC port of GCC, including AIX
<Rhy0lite> and I'm a member of the GCC SC
<Rhy0lite> I've been advocating this for 20 years :-)
<Rhy0lite> IBM is starting to realize that whitequark's opinion of AIX, shared by many other members of the next generation of developers, is a problem ;-)
<whitequark> hehe
<zzak> just needs a rebranding and hip new marketing scheme
<Rhy0lite> yeah, that'll do the trick
<Rhy0lite> Raspberry AIX
<whitequark> blargh
<whitequark> god please no
<zzak> comes with free case of pbr
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<Rhy0lite> "I'm a Mac! I'm a PC! I'm Linux" ... "I'm AIX"
<whitequark> (though I guess that *will* do the trick)
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<whitequark> "WHO'S THERE?!"
<Rhy0lite> AIX.
<Rhy0lite> AIX who?
<zzak> acronyms are so 1990's
<drbrain> I think Ruby on AIX is slightly more popular than Ruby on HP-UX
<drbrain> I think the order is linux, windows, BSD, AIX, HP-UX
<Rhy0lite> I know! We just need to add cool colored cases!
<drbrain> I think I've seen an S/390 bug report too, but I can't recall
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<zzak> ive seen quite a few AIX bugs reported
<zzak> dont forget solaris either
<Rhy0lite> zzak: :-/
<whitequark> "slightly more popular than on HP-UX" is an excellent way to insult software
<drbrain> oh yeah, they're around BSD land
<Rhy0lite> AIX is POSIX-compliant, but in slightly quirky ways
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<whitequark> are there non-quirky POSIX implementations around?..
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<drbrain> ↑ :D
<Rhy0lite> drbrain: Linux runs on POWER and S/390
<Rhy0lite> so it could be zLinux
<Rhy0lite> or it could be Ruby on zOS
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<whitequark> also S/390 has funky memory ordering iirc so it could be just the hardware
<Rhy0lite> yes
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* whitequark <3 S/390
<Rhy0lite> CPython has problems on zOS because of EBCDIC
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<whitequark> (the architecture. not sure I'll ever get around the hardware in my life)
<Rhy0lite> well, there actually are systems for developer access
<drbrain> yeah, looks like linux on S/390
<Rhy0lite> The hardware is cool
<Rhy0lite> but it's not the 1960's mad scientist lab from movies any more
<Rhy0lite> no spinning tape drives
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<Rhy0lite> but I would, at least, like to get buildbots
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<Rhy0lite> both for the visibility
<Rhy0lite> and to ensure that MRI releases continue to work correctly on PowerLinux and AIX
<whitequark> this http://www.realworldtech.com/z196-mainframe/ is plain awesome.
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<whitequark> it's probably the only architecture which makes *anything* intel does look small in comparison
<Rhy0lite> z and POWER have a lot in common at the circuit and system level
<whitequark> not even talking about the cores and ECC'd everything... 192MB 24-way associative L4 cache.
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<whitequark> (though almost 200 in-flight uops on sandy bridge is pretty interesting too.)
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<Rhy0lite> more modern processors are similar
<whitequark> yeah; I guess the main difference is that Intel has to focus on power consumption and cost whereas IBM much less so
<whitequark> thus 5.2G fcore and enormous caches
<Rhy0lite> POWER has a different focus and niche
<Rhy0lite> and no one can match it for transaction processing
<ddfreyne> ↑ Ruby 2.0 object profiling with DTrace
<ddfreyne> This is really awesome :D
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<banisterfiend> ddfreyne: i saw in the logs u were pinging me a few weeks ago, what was that about ?:)
<whitequark> unrelated: grr, rubinius doesn't handle if /(?<foo>)/ =~ bar
<ddfreyne> banisterfiend: Yeah I don’t quite remember what I wanted to say
<ddfreyne> :D
<whitequark> ddfreyne: that is very cool
<whitequark> does dtrace run on linux?
<ddfreyne> whitequark: no :(
<whitequark> crap
<ddfreyne> Mac OS X and *BSD and Solaris
<Rhy0lite> solaris?
<dbussink> ddfreyne: reminds me i should add object allocation as a dtrace probe to rubinius as well
<Rhy0lite> whitequark: there are a number of 64 "processor" PowerLinux systems available for Open Source projects
<ddfreyne> whitequark: Oh, there is Linux dtrace upport
<ddfreyne> dbussink: Yes! Do it!
<dbussink> whitequark: yeah, that needs to be added
<Rhy0lite> and IBM is adding a 64 "processor" AIX system
<dbussink> ddfreyne: shouldn't be terribly hard to do i think ;)
<whitequark> dbussink: I'm not sure if that feature is really good (Readability!) or really bad (wtf regexp introspection)
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<dbussink> whitequark: yeah, it's a bit weird
<whitequark> dbussink: btw, mbj has talked about writing an rbx bytecode emitter for `parser`
<whitequark> maybe you have a chance for using a pure-ruby ruby parser in rbx :D
<dbussink> ah ok, would be interesting to see how far it can go
<dbussink> ruby_parser was tried in the past, but it didn't cut it
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<whitequark> I know... for now it does seem that I indeed can parse all valid Ruby and emit precise location info for that
<whitequark> but there's still quite a bit of work left, unit tests mainly.
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<whitequark> dbussink: btw, what were your specific problems with RP?
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<dbussink> whitequark: i think it was just so much for all the edge cases, but wasn't that active back then
<dbussink> just sucked up a lot of time that was better spent in other places
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<zzak> dbussink: got a minute to take a look at this? https://github.com/sinatra/sinatra/pull/695
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<dbussink> zzak: could you open an issue in the rbx tracker?
<dbussink> so we don't forget / don't keep of track of it?
<dbussink> zzak: and could you include the repro steps as well there?
<ddfreyne> I’d love to trace object lifetime with dtrace as well…
<ddfreyne> But there’s only object-creation, not object-destruction (there are some GC hooks though)
<dbussink> ddfreyne: how would you imagine that to work?
<dbussink> well, object destruction doesn't exist as such
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<ddfreyne> dbussink: Hmmm… for each object, record the timestamp on which it was created, and on destruction (finalization, really) record another timestamp. That way, you could e.g. show average lifetime per class
<whitequark> I imagine you could hook into the parts of GC which manage free lists and iterate the objects there
<ddfreyne> average lifetime * number of allocations, maybe
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<dbussink> that only works if the gc implementation has free lists
<zzak> dbussink: is it ok if repro includes sinatra?
<whitequark> dbussink: how can a GC function without them? or a similar way to mark free memory.
<whitequark> I mean it can be hard, but there's always a way to fetch that info...
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<dbussink> whitequark: there are algorithms i think where it's basically impossible
<dbussink> zzak: yeah, although if you're able to do it without sinatra that would be even better :)
<dbussink> usually the simpler the repro, the easier / faster to fix it
<dbussink> whitequark: without free lists? well, for example a semi space collector doesn't have free list
<dbussink> it copies over objects while scanning / marking
<dbussink> and the old space will be reused / objects will be copied over it
<dbussink> so the only way there would be to do additional work during gc, where after the gc phase you walk over the old space, check which objects aren't forwarded and see those as "dead"
<whitequark> dbussink: yeah exactly what I was suggesting
<whitequark> that would slow it down quite a bit but hey, tracing
<dbussink> right, but for example the azul gc does a system which uses read barriers
<zzak> dbussink: for sure, ill see what i can do
<dbussink> so if an object is forwarded, it's only patched up when a pointer is encountered
<dbussink> so there are ways i think to perhaps do it there to, but it adds a lot of machinery
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<whitequark> dbussink: true that.
<whitequark> plus the lifetime collected this way would be quite imprecise
<dbussink> that also yeah
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<dbussink> zzak: if you can't easily, including sinatra is fine as well
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<ddfreyne> Hmmm… writing a good allocations script for DTrace is not that simple
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<ddfreyne> Better version of my DTrace allocations thingy:
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: eh, how's that supposed to work
<yorickpeterse> as in, what does it do
<ddfreyne> magnets, man. magnets.
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: tests for location info
<yorickpeterse> right
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: so, um, what's the question?..
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<whitequark> "~~ name" tests that parsed_ast.loc.name.{begin,end} == {0,1}
<whitequark> (and a couple more validity tests)
<yorickpeterse> I was just curious what it was doing
<whitequark> " ^~ expression (int)" the same, but it first searches for first child of type `int`
<whitequark> you can actually write paths like array/1.dstr/2 there (first `array`, second `dstr` inside)
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<yfeldblum> is there a command for listing the versions of a gem installed locally, in a machine-readable way? or is parsing `gem list #{name}` supposed to be machine-readable?
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<drbrain> yfeldblum: no, the `gem` commands are largely intended for human consumption
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<injekt> couldn't you enumerate Gem::Specification.each ?
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<drbrain> ruby -e 'puts Gem::Specification.map { |s| s.full_name }'
<injekt> heh yeah, I had: Gem::Specification.select { |s| s.name == 'rails' }.map { |s| s.version.to_s }
<injekt> => ["4.0.0.beta1", "3.2.13", "3.2.13.rc2", "3.2.13.rc1", "3.2.12", "3.2.11"]
<injekt> heh
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<yfeldblum> injekt, say it's a ruby program in one ruby (e.g. in the system ruby) trying to list the gem version of a gem installed in another ruby (e.g. in a ruby installed with rvm)
<injekt> :|
<drbrain> yfeldblum: use `gem env path` then set up the local ruby to examine the foreign ruby's gems
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<cored> hello
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<cored> I create some methods for String for convinience inside a module
<cored> I was thinking that I could do something like class String; extend MyExtensions; end
<cored> and it will work for any instance of String, but the method is not appearing on some of the Strings
<cored> I added that to the file that includes all the others
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<cored> that's the code where I'm extending String to do that
<whitequark> include TM::StringExtensions
<whitequark> at line 8, the `self` is the String class itself. by `extend`ing it, you have added the instance methods of TM::StringExtensions as class methods of String
<cored> doesn't include add class methods instead of instance methods?
<whitequark> you got it the other way :)
<cored> whitequark: hm, checking
<cored> whitequark: that's kinda confusing the thing that you said before
<whitequark> huh?
<cored> the part at line 8,
<cored> oh ok
<cored> I got it now
<cored> extends adds the instance methods on TM::StringExtensions as class methods ok
<cored> same thing with include
<cored> undefined method to_hash on Strings
<whitequark> no, include adds instance methods of TM::StringExtensions as instance methods of String
<cored> I'm using like this wait https://gist.github.com/cored/5305454
<whitequark> >> module StringExtn; def foo; 1; end; end; String.send :include, StringExtn; "".foo
<eval-in> whitequark => 1 (http://eval.in/14659)
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<cored> in this case I don't know why is not working, then
<whitequark> show me the TM::StringExtensions module
<cored> ok
<whitequark> very strange
<whitequark> check that attributes.is_a?(String) and String.ancestors.include?(TM::StringExtensions)
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<whitequark> the latter verifies that you've included the module
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<cored> ok
<yfeldblum> is there a bundler command to compile a Gemfile.lock from a Gemfile, but *without* actually fetching or installing the gems?
<cored> whitequark: very weird, is_a?(String) returns false
<cored> whitequark: but .class returns String
<yfeldblum> i.e. i have a Gemfile; i need a Gemfile.lock; i don't need the gems to be installed or even fetched at all; possible?
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<whitequark> cored: is that from Rails?
<whitequark> yfeldblum: no, because the process of composing Gemfile.lock involves resolving dependencies
<whitequark> and currently you cannot do that without hitting rubygems.org API, AFAIK.
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<whitequark> ooh, nevermind, I think I got it
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<cored> whitequark: nop, an app that I'm developing, not related to Rails in any way
<ddfreyne> whitequark: can I PM you about your irc logger?
<whitequark> cored: no idea
<whitequark> ddfreyne: yep
<cored> whitequark: I added the method by hand inside the definition of String, same thing happend
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<mbj> whitequark: Sorry, no contrib this evening for my side. Got to help an old customer with db corruption :(
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<Denommus> is there a way of passing a method to another, without resorting to lambdas, procs or blocks?
<ben> by name, as a symbol
<kith> through inheritance?
<whitequark> Denommus: method(:foo)
<whitequark> it's not a lambda, proc or block, technically
<whitequark> but a Method instance is almost exactly the same as a Proc.
<Denommus> whitequark: that's basically what I'm looking for, thanks
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