apeiros_ changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p0: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p392) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<andrewvos> The 90s called they want "kewl" back
<andrewvos> I find text based harder. Dealing with shit in a game loop is just natural.
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<TheNotary> well the 90s can't have it!
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<charliesome> whitequark: is loading misaligned data undefined?
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<whitequark> charliesome: yep
<whitequark> and it will explode on most non-x86 archs
<charliesome> huh til
<whitequark> floating point division by zero also undefined...
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<workmad3> whitequark: where isn't it defined?
<whitequark> workmad3: in the C standard
<dbussink> charliesome: i had it fail hard on an arm architecture in the past
<dbussink> charliesome: misaligned data load that is
<dbussink> but it's different on different arm archs whether it fails or not
<charliesome> intereseting
<charliesome> so does ruby die on ARM? /cc whitequark
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<dbussink> charliesome: also depends on how the misaligned read happens
<dbussink> charliesome: if it's accidentally correct, it will probably work
<dbussink> the behavior is undefined, so anything can happen :)
<whitequark> charliesome: it depends (c)
<whitequark> dbussink: um, there is no thing as "accidentally correct"
<whitequark> for misaligned access that is
<dbussink> whitequark: accidentally works, which people will see as "correct"
<whitequark> either your platform corrects it or not
<dbussink> or basically, ruby working
<whitequark> dbussink: yeah. for other cases, such as lshft by sizeof(int), that would be the case
<charliesome> whitequark: i'm guessing the arm chips in ios devices correct it because i can run ruby on them
<whitequark> charliesome: the arm chip, the OS, or ruby is conditionally compiled to not exhibit this behavior on ARM.
<whitequark> if it's the OS they would be 3 or more orders of magnitude slower, akin to page faults
<whitequark> if it's the chip then they would be two times or so slower
<charliesome> interesting
<whitequark> mmm what's the ARM revision in ios devices?
<whitequark> armv7 I guess
<whitequark> right. The data alignment behavior supported by the ARM architecture has changed significantly between ARMv4 and ARMv7. An ARMv7 implementation must support unaligned data accesses. You can control the alignment requirements of load and store instructions by using the A bit in the CP15 register c1.
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<whitequark> so hw handling of misaligned accesses can be enabled by the bootloader/OS
<whitequark> http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dui0491c/CIHCGCFD.html
<charliesome> right
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<whitequark> v6M and pre-v6 cannot do that, v6-notM and v7 can.
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<postmodern> suggestions on a gem name
<postmodern> kramdown-roff, kramdown-manpage, kramdown-man ?
<charliesome> postmodern: kmandown
<postmodern> charliesome, unfortunately that's already taken ;)
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<charliesome> jesus christ
<charliesome> >> def nil.lambda; end; method(:puts).to_proc
<eval-in> charliesome => /tmp/execpad-9508a130c695/source-9508a130c695:2: [BUG] Segmentation fault ... (http://eval.in/17813)
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<postmodern> charliesome, lol nice
<postmodern> charliesome, someone should make a ruby lang fuzzer
<charliesome> postmodern: did you see my class renamer?
<postmodern> charliesome, no?
<charliesome> postmodern: http://eval.in/17719
<postmodern> charliesome, clever
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<charliesome> Method#to_proc's implementation is quite interesting
<spike|spiegel> why on earth
<spike|spiegel> return rb_funcall(Qnil, rb_intern("lambda"), 0); what?
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<charliesome> spike|spiegel: it basically passes the method to lambda as a block with rb_iterate
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<charliesome> then it gets a pointer to the rb_proc_t and writes an int to it
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<postmodern> charliesome, would that be exploitable?
<charliesome> postmodern: you can write 0x00000001 to the 60th byte of any object's data pointer
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<zachlatta> I keep getting https://gist.github.com/anonymous/6d297175917a6ca17140 whenever I try to install any gem. Any ideas?
<zachlatta> nevermind
<zachlatta> got it working
<spike|spiegel> charliesome: not any object right? only RData type?
<spike|spiegel> well o
<charliesome> yeah looks like it
<charliesome> well
<charliesome> it does something along the lines of
<spike|spiegel> unless we can get an object to look like data
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<charliesome> ((int*)RDATA(object_you_control)->data)[15] = 1
<charliesome> i wonder how big an RVALUE is
<charliesome> RDATA(object_you_control)->data is the same as RHASH(object_you_control)->ifnone
<charliesome> and you can control the ifnone value of a hash
<charliesome> hm i think i know how to write anywhere in memory with thids
<charliesome> if you set ifnone to a fixnum, you can basically control where the 1 is written
<charliesome> *(int*)(fix.object_id + 60) = 1
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<judofyr> charliesome: nice
<judofyr> >> def nil.lambda; proc { throw :nope }; end; method(:puts).to_proc.call
<eval-in> judofyr => /tmp/execpad-46e97903f4a1/source-46e97903f4a1:2:in `throw': uncaught throw :nope (ArgumentError) ... (http://eval.in/17815)
<charliesome> hehe
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<zachlatta> How can I submit a form using ruby that uses GET?
<spike|spiegel> zachlatta: try #rubyonrails?
<zachlatta> spike|spiegel: I'm trying to actually submit a form using ruby. I need to brute force the password on this https://picoctf.com/problems/php1/
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<judofyr> charliesome: http://eval.in/17816
<charliesome> judofyr: haha nice
<judofyr> charliesome: I actually wanted a segfault, but for some reason the defined method keeps the proc's self
<charliesome> oh interesting
<charliesome> judofyr: i'm trying to figure out how to write into another objet
<spike|spiegel> charliesome: you can write into any return value from nil.lambda
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<charliesome> spike|spiegel: you have to arrange the objects just so
<spike|spiegel> but that's only limited to first 4/8 bytes of RBasic
<charliesome> so pointers are in the right places
<spike|spiegel> one can technically fake some flags / klass of the object .. but that'd just go unnoticed / crash later
<judofyr> charliesome: there: http://eval.in/17817
<charliesome> judofyr: so what exactly is that doing?
<judofyr> no
<judofyr> I forgot the to_proc
<judofyr> dammit
<judofyr> charliesome: I was trying to transplant a method
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<charliesome> judofyr: you can transplant ruby methods
<spike|spiegel> naw, you molest $plus in there
<charliesome> by scanning the object space for the frozen core
<judofyr> charliesome: I know. just wanted to see if it possible this way too :)
<charliesome> hehe
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<judofyr> but it seems like the proc keeps its self
<charliesome> ooooh
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<charliesome> hmm
<judofyr> even through define_method
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<charliesome> ruby behaves a lot differently inside gdb :\
<judofyr> charliesome: what does is_from_method actually do?
<charliesome> no idea
<charliesome> oh shit, i got it writing into another object
<charliesome> it segfaults on inspect though
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<charliesome> judofyr http://eval.in/17819
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<spike|spiegel> charliesome: like I said.. you get to touch first 4 or 8 bytes of any object.. thats all
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<charliesome> spike|spiegel: by my maths you get to touch 4 bytes from the 20th byte of an object
<spike|spiegel> charliesome: yeah most of the time.. that's a VALUE :) which points to another object
<spike|spiegel> Array might be interesting
<charliesome> yeah
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<judofyr> charliesome: http://eval.in/17820
<judofyr> I'm getting 2147483656 here in 1.9.3
<charliesome> judofyr: niiice
<spike|spiegel> yeah Array all the way :)
<charliesome> hang on
<charliesome> trying to figure out how that works
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<charliesome> judofyr: oh yeah keep in mind execpad is 32 bit
<charliesome> so our maths is off
<charliesome> d'oh
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<judofyr> charliesome: odd. this segfaults on my machine: http://eval.in/17821
<charliesome> yeah it would
<charliesome> since execpad is 32 bit, it can write that int anywhere and it'll come out to a 0 value
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<charliesome> but on a 64 bit machine, if it writes to the high 32 bits of a pointer, that pointer becomes invalid
<judofyr> shouldn't it be a 1?
<judofyr> these pointers make me dizzy
<charliesome> nah
<charliesome> >> 0.object_id
<eval-in> charliesome => 1 (http://eval.in/17823)
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<judofyr> ah, right
<spike|spiegel> same fail whale in nil.proc too :)
<spike|spiegel> judofyr: charliesome: http://eval.in/17824 :)
<charliesome> spike|spiegel: ah you wrote an actual 0 somewhere?
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<spike|spiegel> curry is far more interseting in that aspect ;)
<charliesome> hm
<spike|spiegel> now I'm fairly satisfied that this can us somewhere... but need to go get some urgent done.. play on
<charliesome> i have a poker that will write a 1 to any odd memory address i want
<charliesome> and then a 0 to the three bytes after
<charliesome> but its behaving weirdly
<spike|spiegel> file a bug for starters I guess :)
<spike|spiegel> later
<charliesome> poke(1) #=> Reason: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at address: 0x0000000000000001
<charliesome> cool :D
<judofyr> charliesome: code?
<charliesome> judofyr http://eval.in/17826
<judofyr> charliesome: not bad
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<charliesome> judofyr: interestingly, this runs without error: http://eval.in/17829
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<charliesome> hang on my 64 bit detection is wrong
<charliesome> humm weird, looks like ruby on a 32 bit machine will align objects to a 2 byte boundary
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<judofyr> charliesome: I'm getting Reason: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at address: 0x00000000deadbf0b
<charliesome> judofyr: oh really?
<charliesome> wait yeah
<charliesome> try changing the '% 8' to a '% 4'
<judofyr> charliesome: better
<judofyr> charliesome: this works too: http://eval.in/17834
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<charliesome> interesting
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<judofyr> charliesome: I only get segfaults when writing to that pointer
<charliesome> weird
<charliesome> so i'm working on fixing it
<charliesome> and learning a lot about how ruby blocks work
<charliesome> shit's wird
<charliesome> weird
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<mrwibbles> I need some software i can conduct online ruby tests with
<mrwibbles> anyone know of any?
<charliesome> mrwibbles: how do you mean
<mrwibbles> oh sorry, online ruby examiniations
<mrwibbles> is a better word
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<mrwibbles> here's a problem, solve it.. click on next
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<mrwibbles> executes without leaving tons of security holes etc
<tsion> mrwibbles: sounds like http://www.rubeque.com/
<mrwibbles> yeah.. really i just want the platform to be able to let them run the code
<tsion> rubeque is MIT licensed and on github: https://github.com/SciMed/rubeque
<mrwibbles> yeah that's awesome!
<mrwibbles> love the interface
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<charliesome> mrwibbles: on eval.in, i use a ptrace sandbox
<charliesome> mrwibbles: a modified version of http://www.ucw.cz/moe/
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<charliesome> i wouldn't trust anything that didn't operate at a level above ruby
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<mrwibbles> charliesome: yeah that says it onlys works with Pascal, C, C++ C$ and haskell
<mrwibbles> I basically need javascript and ruby
<charliesome> mrwibbles: it can work with anything
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<mrwibbles> do you know if their evaluator v2 is working?
<charliesome> not sure, i use the v1
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<charliesome> judofyr: fixed it: https://gist.github.com/charliesome/5476730 blocks are weird creatures
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<judofyr> charliesome: have you seen RGenGC? is this summary correct? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5620985
<charliesome> judofyr: yeah that's pretty bang on
<judofyr> charliesome: also, mentioned String/Array explicitly, but I assume all instances of Ruby classes (user-level) are sunny too?
<judofyr> ko1 mentioned*
<charliesome> i'm not sure
<charliesome> i think only strings and arrays are covered in this first cut
<charliesome> lol why are people writing "Geneartional" everywhere
<judofyr> it was in the redmine title :P
<charliesome> i'm amazed nobody has fixed that typo
<charliesome> someone on r/ruby: "anyone know if this is copy on write-friendly?"
<charliesome> good point
<charliesome> are the generation and sunny/shady flags stored on the object itself?
<judofyr> charliesome: yes
<charliesome> ouch
<judofyr> charliesome: just like frozen
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<charliesome> so gen gc undoes the bitmap mark flag improvement
<judofyr> RUBY_FL_RESERVED1 and RUBY_FL_RESERVED2 has been renamed to RUBY_FL_KEEP_WB and RUBY_FL_OLDGEN
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<khaase> anyone know how to compile an ext in ruby without recompiling all of ruby?
<khaase> ie, cd ext/strscan && ruby extconf.rb && make
<charliesome> khaase: cd into the directory, ruby extconf.rb; make; make install
<khaase> except that doesn't work
<charliesome> works on my machine :p
<khaase> make: *** No rule to make target `/regint.h', needed by `strscan.o'. Stop.
<charliesome> huh weird
<charliesome> are you using the ruby that you're trying to build the ext for?
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<khaase> confirm
<khaase> no, wait
<khaase> I use the same version but build from ruby-build
<khaase> I just ran a make in all of ruby
<khaase> got the same error
<khaase> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `/regint.h', needed by `strscan.o'. Stop.
<khaase> make[1]: *** [ext/strscan/all] Error 2
<khaase> make: *** [build-ext] Error 2
<charliesome> no clue
<charliesome> try rebuilding ruby manually
<judofyr> charliesome: I asked about user-level classes and flags on ruby-core :)
<khaase> yeah, that's the message I got from rebuilding ruby
<charliesome> khaase: hmm, try maybe running ./configure again
<charliesome> judofyr: cool cheers
<khaase> removed generated files in ext/strscan and trying again, maybe I messed up something
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<khaase> uh, now it works. with just running ./configure, no need to rebuild ruby
<khaase> it's just if I run extconf.rb manually that I mess up everything
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<judofyr> charliesome: do you know if there's been work on an on-the-fly GC (concurrent marking)?
<charliesome> not to my knowledge
<judofyr> now that we have write barriers it might be possible
<charliesome> i don't know much about GCs but i'd imagine to support concurrent marking you'd need proper write barriers?
<judofyr> you usually stop the thread to capture the root, then you resume the thread again
<khaase> maybe I'm stupid here or something, but where does the .so end up?
<judofyr> root pointers*
<judofyr> and then you need something to detect changes in objects while the tracing occurs
<judofyr> i.e. write-barriers
<khaase> I mean, the bundle
<khaase> ah .ext
<whitequark> you don't need write barriers if your GC is non-moving...
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<judofyr> whitequark: sure? what if this runs concurrently: `a = obj.thing; obj.thing = nil; (some time passes); obj.thing = a`
<judofyr> if the marking phase ends during (some time passes) it won't find the obj.thing
<judofyr> (the old one)
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<judofyr> and `a` would be a dangling pointer
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<judofyr> hm. actually, the write barriers in RGenGC isn't good enough. they only record that `a` now points to `b`; not that something no longer points there.
<judofyr> Petrank's sliding view on-the-fly collector assumes that you can always get the old value
<judofyr> (see An On-the-Fly Mark and Sweep Garbage Collector Based on Sliding Views)
<whitequark> judofyr: er, you are right, of course
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<whitequark> s,write,read,
<judofyr> ah, yes
<judofyr> that is correct
<judofyr> I wonder if it would be possible to implement it if OBJ_WB also took the old value
<judofyr> and do something funky with shady objects
<judofyr> that's the tricky thing
<judofyr> maybe stop-the-world + mark roots and shady objects, mark the rest concurrently
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<whitequark> judofyr: you've mentioned sliding view... :)
<whitequark> I like that paper, but the complexity it adds is substantial
<judofyr> whitequark: as long as Ruby stays single-threaded you can get rid of the thread handshake
<whitequark> I wonder if it is possible to compose GC'd and non-GC'd code in a sane way.
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<judofyr> whitequark: define "sane" :P
<whitequark> judofyr: (handshake) nah, with the MRI's design that is trivial
<whitequark> it doesn't even JIT, so what's the problem?
<whitequark> simply add a checking call to rb_funcall and emit a bytecode before loop back edges
<whitequark> judofyr: sane? usable by someone who is aware of how GCs generally work
<whitequark> look
<whitequark> the general idea is that you can attach attributes to lexical scopes
* whitequark is writing a gist
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<khaase> why the hell strscan isn't using matchdata is unclear to me
<whitequark> sigh... whatever
<khaase> also, private c methods all over the place
<whitequark> judofyr: scratch that
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<judofyr> whitequark: brb
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<rue> C ALL the things!
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<banisterfiend> rue: have you used bacon.js on any projects?
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<khaase> oniguruma memory management, how does it work?
<khaase> if (RREGEXP(regex)->usecnt) onig_free(oldre);
<khaase> doesn't that mean I free it when it is still in use?
<khaase> I'm at a path way here: segfault or memory leak
<whitequark> khaase: hmm, interesting
<zzak> khaase: you're a mad man
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<whitequark> khaase: I think that it handles the case where rb_reg_prepare_re (line 459) sometimes returns the original regexp and sometimes a copy
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<khaase> also, how is p->regs different from RMATCH_REGS?
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<khaase> also, how do I turn a re_registers into a re_registers into a OnigRegion?
<khaase> ie, why is regs in strscanner different from regs in re.c (MatchData) but onig writes to both without issue?
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<khaase> typedef struct re_registers OnigRegion;
<khaase> hmmm
<khaase> ah, no, need to deref
<khaase> stupid me
<khaase> haven't done c in a while
<judofyr> I've been thinking about concurrent tracing: I think it's doable. but objects that are being shaded during tracing would have to be traced right away.
<khaase> fuck yeah working
<khaase> now I only have to figure out freeing the regexp
<judofyr> khaase: what are you implementing?
<khaase> judofyr: named captures for stringscanner
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<judofyr> so: stop thread, gather roots + shady-set, start thread, run tracing concurrently. if an object gets shady, trace the object, carry on. if a write-barrier gets invoked, add the old value to the marklist.
<khaase> see the // THIS SEGFAULTS
<khaase> compare with line 58 to 67
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<banisterfiend> khaase: what line is it segv on
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<khaase> wait, now it's not segfaulting
<khaase> test_pos_unicode(TestStringScanner) [../../test/strscan/test_stringscanner.rb:208]:
<khaase> <"def\u00F6"> expected but was
<khaase> <nil>.
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<khaase> now it did
<judofyr> fun
<khaase> banisterfiend: https://gist.github.com/rkh/5477015
<banisterfiend> khaase: are you messing with it in gdb? i find gdb a necessity when debugging C stuff
<banisterfiend> it gives clearer backtraces too, i can never make sense of the ruby ones..
<khaase> not yet, I'm adding string lookup first
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<khaase> will do that next
<khaase> I think the problem is that I don't fully understand the pointer freeing code of the regex
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<banisterfiend> you'll probably need to recompile ruby with -O0 for gdb to be really useful
<judofyr> and -g
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<whitequark> but what if your program doesn't work with -O0
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<khaase> string matching done. have to run, will do gdb later
<khaase> thanks for being my rubber ducky so far
<khaase> isn't -O0 the default anyways?
<banisterfiend> for ruby i think it's like -O2
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<khaase> oh ok
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<khaase> ah, I solved it
<khaase> it was a misconception on my end
<khaase> doing to mutch
<khaase> I can pretty much keep the old code
<judofyr> you shouldn't do to mutch
<judofyr> :)
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<judofyr> yay, when I get GitHub to connect my (mistakenly) broken streak, it's going to be 90 days: https://github.com/judofyr :D
<injekt> it's 90 already?
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<zzak> judofyr: congrats!
<judofyr> I haven't managed to finish/release many projects though…
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<zzak> details
<zzak> 90 day streak is still something to be proud of
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<judofyr> telemachus is still ahead of me of course: https://github.com/telemachus
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<zzak> amazing
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<whitequark> judofyr: wow. did you do it deliberately?
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<judofyr> whitequark: streak? yes
<judofyr> messing it up: nope
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<judofyr> I had a commit on a feature-branch in March. I *think* it should count now that I've merged the branch, but I think they have to fix it manually
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<whitequark> my graph isn't exactly that impressive... every once in a while, computers annoy me bad enough so I just turn everything off for a few days :)
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<judofyr> whitequark: I have 4x commits when you include private repos
<judofyr> which makes me a bit sad
<whitequark> oh right, private repos
* whitequark shrugs
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<whitequark> this is really cool: http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2001/herrmann2.c
<whitequark> (it's a stereogram)
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<injekt> whitequark: you want this code?
<whitequark> injekt: I think so
<injekt> sent
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<herbalist> hello
<herbalist> can someone help me?
<herbalist> ?
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<judofyr> injekt: zzak: you here?
<judofyr> herbalist: still here?
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<gjaldon> herbalist: just post your question
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<ddfreyne> judofyr: 90 day streak is pretty long
<judofyr> :)
<ddfreyne> Mine is 0 :(
<ddfreyne> I don’t get to code often enough
<judofyr> ddfreyne: code today and your streak is 1!
<ddfreyne> I am coding, but I’m not ready to commit anything at all
<ddfreyne> judofyr: Oh I did commit today
<ddfreyne> judofyr: I guess it’ll become 1 tomorrow
<judofyr> oh, and everyone: what do you think about this style of documentation: https://github.com/judofyr/zorm/blob/master/docs/zorm_form.md as an alternative to RDoc/YARD? (probably needs a custom template + ToC)
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<ddfreyne> judofyr: Is it auto-generated from source code? Or does it keep the documentation in a separate file, not inside the source code?
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<judofyr> ddfreyne: separate
<judofyr> ddfreyne: I'm going to add comments in the file that explains the internal details
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<injekt> judofyr: I am now
<judofyr> injekt: see link above. I think that's my new documentation style
<judofyr> one .md file per class for API reference
<judofyr> add comments to the source that explains the internal details
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<injekt> judofyr: I like it, but I always have the same opinion on api documentation: frames are good. It's one of the reasons I have a problem with the default rdoc darkfish template
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<injekt> that and I like to read all the docs within the source (but that's a personal opinion, I like reading code)
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<banisterfiend> brown paper bags for sergeant pepper!
<ddfreyne> judofyr: I like keeping my source code documentation close to my source code
<judofyr> injekt: I agree. it needs a custom template.
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<judofyr> ddfreyne: I think code is better when you use comments to explain the code
<ddfreyne> judofyr: It lessens the chance that the source code docs are out-of-date
<ddfreyne> judofyr: It also ensures that you document everything that needs to be documented
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<banisterfiend> judofyr: did you see this http://ashkenas.com/literate-coffeescript/
<banisterfiend> r0bgleeson: wb
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<yorickpeterse> wohoo, my talk made it into the Euruko shortlist
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<yorickpeterse> now I just have to go from #26 to <= #10
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<KU0N> Hello
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<KU0N> Is it possible to do a gsub of a pattern only if this pattern is not within another? For example in the following AA5AA6AA I want to replace first two and last two A, I don't want to replace occurence between 5 and 6.
<KU0N> So it becomes BB5AA6BB
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<r0bgleeson> yorickpeterse: cool, what's the talk?
<yorickpeterse> also, the amount of upvotes seems to be incorrect
<yorickpeterse> it was 25/7
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<yorickpeterse> also the ranking seems to be really weird
<yorickpeterse> A talk with 36 unique views, 16 upvotes and 4 downvotes gets ranked higher than a talk with 54 unique views, 21 (actually 25) upvotes and 7 downvotes
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